Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
edited March 2008
Powersliding is quite simple, but the manual does a terrible job of explaining how to actually do it. Just hit the break, and while holding it, flick the remote in whatever direction you want your back wheel to slide. So for example, if you want to do a powerslide into a right turn, you'll need your back wheel to slide to the left, right? So just as you get up to the turn, hold the break down and flick the remote left, and you'll do a perfect powerslide every time.
It seems a little unintuitive at first (flicking it left to turn right I mean), but it really does make sense in a weird way. And once you've done it a few times, you'll master it very quickly to the point where you don't even have to think about it anymore. Using, boost and powersliding, I got to where I could get from any point to another in Santa Destroy within a couple of minutes, and most trips took less than twenty or thirty seconds. Learning to use your powerslide and boost in conjunction will make driving around much more enjoyable.
I never found much use for the wheelie jump though, except for that one minigame and a couple of parts where you have to jump a gate. For the most part, it doesn't help much when you're just driving around.
After putting a couple more hours into the game, I've decided to send it back. The "doing fun stuff" to "doing repetitive crap" ratio is way too low for me. The game is interesting, but not very fun for me. Sorry if this means we can never be friends apotheos.
Tsk. That sucks man. The game is so full of awesome, it's a shame you couldn't handle the sheer awesomeness of it all.
Of course, I'm just teasing you. To each their own, good sir.
I think I might need to have a filter on future friends that you need to complete this game to be my friend. Its part Labour of Heracles, part mandatory reading for class.
I think it's the best game of the year so far. That very well may change when GTAIV comes out next month though.
Anyway, new interview with Suda 51 popped up today.
For those of you saying that they didn't make any parts of the game bad on purpose...
Travis has to work hard at lots of grotty jobs. Is that inspired by real life? Have you ever had a terrible part time job?
(A booming, almost disconcerting laugh from Suda and his translator) I've done over thirty jobs in my lifetime. Some were better than others, let's leave it at that.
But there is a link between my and my team's life experiences and the games we make. We want to include the message in our games that "some jobs aren't important, and you may hate them, but if you do them to the best of your ability, it'll turn out well. Better times will come."
so he likes to design games with elements that are purposefully boring?
That's retarded and probably why his games sell like ass and aren't advertised. Could you imagine explaining that to a marketer? Man that's just stupid. I can see why Ubisoft said they weren't going to advertise this game much
.
Love your games Suda, but you're an idiot.
Are you actually unwilling to accept that maybe video games can go beyond just constant FUN FUN FUN?
I'm not sure you understand that it's an entertainment industry. Fun is the key word and chores are not all that entertaining nor are "lessons on life". I can see having some small parts of the game not be fun to make a point, but large chunks that get larger and larger as you go on not being fun is certainly idiotic.
I also don't buy his whole life lesson teaching thing either. All this just seems like a means to lengthen and already short game.
EDIT - me and Apoth pretty much have the same feeling toward the game. We both like it, we would both recommend it, but we both refuse to ignore the blatantly bad parts that take away from the game.
Movies and TV are both considered entertainment industries too, but I don't watch either of them just for fun. It's no different.
you don't watch TV or movies on your own time for entertainment?
You're just a weird person then.
Kewop Decam on
0
Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
It's a lot of fun, and you can definitely see that Suda's got a trend going of games that are so friggin' weird, you can't help but be pulled in. It's like an even gorier, over the top David Lynch movie.
Killer 7 is basically ruined for me by the shitastic controls. I can't stand to play it and basically watched a friend play the second half of the game to get the story.
I'd be willing to play it again if there was a waggleport. Rail shooters and the Wii are already peanut butter and chocolate, so one more wouldn't hurt.
I can't imagine how the people who played it on the PS2 must have suffered. Loadtimes and even worse controls? Makes me want to blow myself up just thinking about it.
Movies and TV are both considered entertainment industries too, but I don't watch either of them just for fun. It's no different.
you don't watch TV or movies on your own time for entertainment?
You're just a weird person then.
You are missing his point. He is trying to say that some movies are watched not because they are particularily "fun" to watch but are intellectually stimulating, have a powerful message, etc.
I am not saying this is the case with this game. I'm just saying that I think the viewpoint that if you are not having fun all of the time in a game that makes it bad by definition is damn narrow minded.
Can you at least accept the concept that entertainment does not always equal fun?
Killer 7 is basically ruined for me by the shitastic controls. I can't stand to play it and basically watched a friend play the second half of the game to get the story.
I'd be willing to play it again if there was a waggleport. Rail shooters and the Wii are already peanut butter and chocolate, so one more wouldn't hurt.
I can't imagine how the people who played it on the PS2 must have suffered. Loadtimes and even worse controls? Makes me want to blow myself up just thinking about it.
The controls weren't that bad but the load times could get pretty annoying.
So I went to pick up NMH but man the prices: 60€ at Gamestop and 62€ at MediaWorld. O_o
Killer 7 is basically ruined for me by the shitastic controls. I can't stand to play it and basically watched a friend play the second half of the game to get the story.
I'd be willing to play it again if there was a waggleport. Rail shooters and the Wii are already peanut butter and chocolate, so one more wouldn't hurt.
I can't imagine how the people who played it on the PS2 must have suffered. Loadtimes and even worse controls? Makes me want to blow myself up just thinking about it.
The controls weren't that bad but the load times could get pretty annoying.
So I went to pick up NMH but man the prices: 60€ at Gamestop and 62€ at MediaWorld. O_o
Movies and TV are both considered entertainment industries too, but I don't watch either of them just for fun. It's no different.
you don't watch TV or movies on your own time for entertainment?
You're just a weird person then.
You are missing his point. He is trying to say that some movies are watched not because they are particularily "fun" to watch but are intellectually stimulating, have a powerful message, etc.
I am not saying this is the case with this game. I'm just saying that I think the viewpoint that if you are not having fun all of the time in a game that makes it bad by definition is damn narrow minded.
Can you at least accept the concept that entertainment does not always equal fun?
But I think where this doesnt apply is that these Grasshopper games are trying to be fun. Their core elements are really fun. They are just mixing in a lot of not fun in, which is hard to swallow.
Also, there is a huge difference in not fun interactivity and not fun passive experience. Not fun interactivity is about trying to do something and failing, and in some cases not knowing why. Not fun interactivity can be about experiencing a whole breadth of human emotion outside of "fun". This is a poor comparison we have going here.
There's a difference between 'making the city aspects more monotonous for thematic reasons' and 'olol let's make part of our game fucking suck'. I really think the city elements work fine and are done intentionally and people would pick up on that...if the controls and physics for the bike weren't utter and total shit. There's enough good in the overworld between the humor, the powerups, and the assasination action to keep it entertaining while STILL having that tone to it. In that regard I agree with the 'it was intentionally designed' crowd.
Then they obscured the whole thing by having the only means of tranport suck balls. In that regard I agree with the 'they fucked up, deal' train of thought.
I think some of you people are missing the point of the overworld. This isn't supposed to be GTA, or any other game with a living huge game world. It's just interesting enough with enough things to do, it doesn't need anymore. If they filled up the world, and made it more fun to play around in on the side, the entire game would lose it's focus. Instead of a Shadows of the Collosus style game, in which the bosses themselves are the main focus and showcase, you'd end up with a game where hey, those 11 bosses were nice, but did you guys do/see X in the overworld, that was really sweet.
I think that if they had wanted to, they could have made the overworld a bit better, but like I said, I'm pretty sure it was a decision to make sure the focus stayed on the bosses and the climbing of the ladder.
I will also say that looking at that Destructoid article, I'm surprisingly inclined to agree. The reason I agree that I think the game is almost a mirror to look at ourselves as gamers in is because of one thing for me... treasure hunting. It's at the point where I'm super OCD about removing dots from the minimap. Sure, they give me cash, but it's only 1000, which is completely worthless in this game. It's totally inefficient, and it's not really the most fun thing to do... I have a blast batting down that row of 9 baseball guys for money, I also enjoy killing lots of guys, both of which give tons more $.
The fact of the matter is, I go around the map looking for dots to remove, accumulating probably less than 100k. After reading that article and thinking about what I was doing, I realized that the author was probably on the right track. I also realized that when I really like a game, I'm an OCD completionist
Really loving this game so far, but seeing all these youtube videos of the amount of gore in the game kinda leave me jaded. That scene with holly summers would have been so much more... visceral if they had left in the ultra violence on the european version.
GoNintendo just linked to this article about NMH, which I think is spot on, and is totally relevant to the argument Kewop, I and others were having. You guys should check it out.
Really loving this game so far, but seeing all these youtube videos of the amount of gore in the game kinda leave me jaded. That scene with holly summers would have been so much more... visceral if they had left in the ultra violence on the european version.
Agreed. Just done that fight and the censored cutscene is terrible. It looks like a loony tunes cartoon, really shits over the atmosphere they're trying to create.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
GoNintendo just linked to this article about NMH, which I think is spot on, and is totally relevant to the argument Kewop, I and others were having. You guys should check it out.
That was a great read. It really lays out a lot of the reasons why I love this game so much.
Really loving this game so far, but seeing all these youtube videos of the amount of gore in the game kinda leave me jaded. That scene with holly summers would have been so much more... visceral if they had left in the ultra violence on the european version.
Agreed. Just done that fight and the censored cutscene is terrible. It looks like a loony tunes cartoon, really shits over the atmosphere they're trying to create.
I don't think you get it. If anything, it's SUPPOSED to be like a cartoon. Why do you give a crap about Holly Summers? You just met her five minutes ago.
Really loving this game so far, but seeing all these youtube videos of the amount of gore in the game kinda leave me jaded. That scene with holly summers would have been so much more... visceral if they had left in the ultra violence on the european version.
Agreed. Just done that fight and the censored cutscene is terrible. It looks like a loony tunes cartoon, really shits over the atmosphere they're trying to create.
I don't think you get it. If anything, it's SUPPOSED to be like a cartoon. Why do you give a crap about Holly Summers? You just met her five minutes ago.
Did you even listen to any of their dialogue? Holly Summers really touched Travis, and it was actually one of the more serious parts of the game...
I think the violent ends to the bosses really add to the overall theme of the game in terms of dissecting (lol) action games. You cut through wave after wave off fodder enemies in the level leading up the boss. They're all faceless clones who disintegrate in clouds of blood in a supremely cartoonish manner. But when you face the bosses, they die in remarkably realistic, visceral manners, and in the end you're left with the grisly remains of your work lying on the ground.
This is one case where I really think the violence has a level of artistic merit.
I'm slowly working my way through (damn you, Smash), and I LOVE the atmosphere of the game. I don't give a shit about the shitty bike, or some of the lame jobs. I live to just start missions and cut people the fuck down. Or suplex them. Or whatever. It's such an awesome brawler that I just can't get enough. I'm thinking of keeping it from Gamefly just because. The detail on the bedroom alone is just pure fun (it also reminds me of a time before I was married, but that's neither here nor there).
Really loving this game so far, but seeing all these youtube videos of the amount of gore in the game kinda leave me jaded. That scene with holly summers would have been so much more... visceral if they had left in the ultra violence on the european version.
Agreed. Just done that fight and the censored cutscene is terrible. It looks like a loony tunes cartoon, really shits over the atmosphere they're trying to create.
I don't think you get it. If anything, it's SUPPOSED to be like a cartoon. Why do you give a crap about Holly Summers? You just met her five minutes ago.
Did you even listen to any of their dialogue? Holly Summers really touched Travis, and it was actually one of the more serious parts of the game...
Yeah, but again, I ask you, why? Why did Holly Summers touch Travis? And to such a huge degree compared to, say, Dr. Peace, who Travis had no problem murdering even after hearing about his daughter troubles? And don't tell me
a girl putting a grenade in her mouth, and then you carrying her body into a convenient hole in the sand for a burial is serious.
It's about as serious as Marvin getting shot in the face in Pulp Fiction.
The only reason Holly touched Travis, and Shinobou too, for that matter, is because you as the game player don't want to murder girls, you want to show them how much better you are than them and have them give you their respect; shows them for not talking to you in high school, right? You'll cut the crap out of any crazy guy who so much as looks at you funny, but the second a cute girl pops up who's not clinically insane, Travis (and by extension, you) go all weak-kneed and googly eyed.
I'm past the point of debating this game. People's opinions are too entrenched and I am in no mood to argue on the internet, at least for the rest of the day. :P Anyway, I found
NMH final painting
It is kind of blurry, but we were all looking for something like this for a long time.
Really loving this game so far, but seeing all these youtube videos of the amount of gore in the game kinda leave me jaded. That scene with holly summers would have been so much more... visceral if they had left in the ultra violence on the european version.
Agreed. Just done that fight and the censored cutscene is terrible. It looks like a loony tunes cartoon, really shits over the atmosphere they're trying to create.
I don't think you get it. If anything, it's SUPPOSED to be like a cartoon. Why do you give a crap about Holly Summers? You just met her five minutes ago.
Did you even listen to any of their dialogue? Holly Summers really touched Travis, and it was actually one of the more serious parts of the game...
Yeah, but again, I ask you, why? Why did Holly Summers touch Travis? And to such a huge degree compared to, say, Dr. Peace, who Travis had no problem murdering even after hearing about his daughter troubles? And don't tell me
a girl putting a grenade in her mouth, and then you carrying her body into a convenient hole in the sand for a burial is serious.
It's about as serious as Marvin getting shot in the face in Pulp Fiction.
The only reason Holly touched Travis, and Shinobou too, for that matter, is because you as the game player don't want to murder girls, you want to show them how much better you are than them and have them give you their respect; shows them for not talking to you in high school, right? You'll cut the crap out of any crazy guy who so much as looks at you funny, but the second a cute girl pops up who's not clinically insane, Travis (and by extension, you) go all weak-kneed and googly eyed.
I figured you didn't quite know what you were talking about at this point; how on Earth could you think Shinobu and Holly aren't clinically insane?
As for my experience with Holly:
Even though I really liked the Holly Summers death scene on a serious level and appreciated the emotion, I laughed when she blew her head off.
So as a break from a super late night of research and work, I decided to hop on and fight a boss on NMH. I played the rank 5 fight.
And it was the most worthless, unrewarding late night work break ever. I was seriously pissed and frustrated since I didn't get to let off any steam in that fight. I had to laugh though when Travis' reaction was pretty much a mirror image of mine. I was in a bloodthirsty killing mood and put the game down unquenched.
This game needed more Travis and less of everything else, the game shined when it was all cut-scene and action, but I got to say the rest was pretty shabby. The world was way to mundane, I never bothered collecting the orbs after the first power-up or opening up trash bins because it bored me to tears.
The side jobs were alright, but the repetition of assassination missions to gain money was really tiring. A cheap attempt at extending the game's already short length.
I figured out something I hate about this game. The bosses take too long to kill. I know that's kind of the point, but when I get their health low enough they start busting out the surprise instakill moves that just frustrate me to no fucking end. My fucking BEAM KATANA doesn't feel like it's doing any damage, and the game mechanics themselves bother me. If I'm locked on to a boss I shouldn't lose that lock because a pillar that is more thin than either character is blocking me. I also shouldn't be running into pillars trying to escape instakill moves and then get killed, but I guess that's more my fault.
This game needed more Travis and less of everything else, the game shined when it was all cut-scene and action, but I got to say the rest was pretty shabby. The world was way to mundane, I never bothered collecting the orbs after the first power-up or opening up trash bins because it bored me to tears.
The side jobs were alright, but the repetition of assassination missions to gain money was really tiring. A cheap attempt at extending the game's already short length.
I would say Shinobu is really really hard. You fight her early in the game, probably before a lot of people are really familiar with combat. You fight her in a confined area, making you actually pay attention to which way you are rolling and diving. Her movie super attack looks a lot like her standard charged slash.
Compared to Death Metal and Dr. Peace, she is way harder. Death Metal is pretty easy, Dr. Peace is easy once you remember to roll rather than block his bullets. Shinobu is definitely harder to fight than most of the bosses. The environment really hampers your efforts. Most of the time, it doesn't matter where on the stage you are standing. With her (And Holly), you have to worry about more than just being pushed into the outer walls.
Jeane and Henry both have wide open stages. Actually fighting them is much harder, but you don't need to worry about your position in stage.
This game needed more Travis and less of everything else, the game shined when it was all cut-scene and action, but I got to say the rest was pretty shabby. The world was way to mundane, I never bothered collecting the orbs after the first power-up or opening up trash bins because it bored me to tears.
The side jobs were alright, but the repetition of assassination missions to gain money was really tiring. A cheap attempt at extending the game's already short length.
tldr, but I have already read something similar explaining how you as a gamer are Travis and the world is plain because its your world blabla, yes I see the similarities. But as a vehicle of enjoyment, the game has really bad parts.
Too mundane? I'm wondering if you even finished the game.
If you read my post carefully you'll see I said the world, not the story (or characters). The world is worthless besides some signs and the places that actually have an event at.
This game needed more Travis and less of everything else, the game shined when it was all cut-scene and action, but I got to say the rest was pretty shabby. The world was way to mundane, I never bothered collecting the orbs after the first power-up or opening up trash bins because it bored me to tears.
The side jobs were alright, but the repetition of assassination missions to gain money was really tiring. A cheap attempt at extending the game's already short length.
Can someone give me a brief rundown of the different katanas? There doesn't seem to be any info in the game and I don't want to blow a load of money on the Tsubaki II. I got the prototype and it seemed to daze a lot but do shit for damage, I used it for 2 minutes then never again.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Posts
It seems a little unintuitive at first (flicking it left to turn right I mean), but it really does make sense in a weird way. And once you've done it a few times, you'll master it very quickly to the point where you don't even have to think about it anymore. Using, boost and powersliding, I got to where I could get from any point to another in Santa Destroy within a couple of minutes, and most trips took less than twenty or thirty seconds. Learning to use your powerslide and boost in conjunction will make driving around much more enjoyable.
I never found much use for the wheelie jump though, except for that one minigame and a couple of parts where you have to jump a gate. For the most part, it doesn't help much when you're just driving around.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Rotate the Wiimote to one side or the other. Hit the brakes. Done. Do not flick. Flicking is overcomplicating it.
Wheelie jump conserves turbo. It helps get you places, but is hard to control.
猿も木から落ちる
Agreed. Plus you can rotate the remote in the direction that you want to turn. Left (counterclockwise) for a left, and right (clockwise) for a right.
Tsk. That sucks man. The game is so full of awesome, it's a shame you couldn't handle the sheer awesomeness of it all.
I'm stealing that idea, because that's wonderful.
you don't watch TV or movies on your own time for entertainment?
You're just a weird person then.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
It actually is quite a bit of fun. Hard as hell to get in to, but by the end of the first mission I was hooked.
猿も木から落ちる
I'd be willing to play it again if there was a waggleport. Rail shooters and the Wii are already peanut butter and chocolate, so one more wouldn't hurt.
I can't imagine how the people who played it on the PS2 must have suffered. Loadtimes and even worse controls? Makes me want to blow myself up just thinking about it.
You are missing his point. He is trying to say that some movies are watched not because they are particularily "fun" to watch but are intellectually stimulating, have a powerful message, etc.
I am not saying this is the case with this game. I'm just saying that I think the viewpoint that if you are not having fun all of the time in a game that makes it bad by definition is damn narrow minded.
Can you at least accept the concept that entertainment does not always equal fun?
The controls weren't that bad but the load times could get pretty annoying.
So I went to pick up NMH but man the prices: 60€ at Gamestop and 62€ at MediaWorld. O_o
Did it cost this much in the states?
Negativo. It's 50 bones in the good ole US of A.
Yeah the game puts you back about 50$ in the US.
But I think where this doesnt apply is that these Grasshopper games are trying to be fun. Their core elements are really fun. They are just mixing in a lot of not fun in, which is hard to swallow.
Also, there is a huge difference in not fun interactivity and not fun passive experience. Not fun interactivity is about trying to do something and failing, and in some cases not knowing why. Not fun interactivity can be about experiencing a whole breadth of human emotion outside of "fun". This is a poor comparison we have going here.
猿も木から落ちる
You can look up the slowed down version up on Youtube, just search "No More Heroes" and it will probably be one of the first on there.
I think some of you people are missing the point of the overworld. This isn't supposed to be GTA, or any other game with a living huge game world. It's just interesting enough with enough things to do, it doesn't need anymore. If they filled up the world, and made it more fun to play around in on the side, the entire game would lose it's focus. Instead of a Shadows of the Collosus style game, in which the bosses themselves are the main focus and showcase, you'd end up with a game where hey, those 11 bosses were nice, but did you guys do/see X in the overworld, that was really sweet.
I think that if they had wanted to, they could have made the overworld a bit better, but like I said, I'm pretty sure it was a decision to make sure the focus stayed on the bosses and the climbing of the ladder.
I will also say that looking at that Destructoid article, I'm surprisingly inclined to agree. The reason I agree that I think the game is almost a mirror to look at ourselves as gamers in is because of one thing for me... treasure hunting. It's at the point where I'm super OCD about removing dots from the minimap. Sure, they give me cash, but it's only 1000, which is completely worthless in this game. It's totally inefficient, and it's not really the most fun thing to do... I have a blast batting down that row of 9 baseball guys for money, I also enjoy killing lots of guys, both of which give tons more $.
The fact of the matter is, I go around the map looking for dots to remove, accumulating probably less than 100k. After reading that article and thinking about what I was doing, I realized that the author was probably on the right track. I also realized that when I really like a game, I'm an OCD completionist
DO NOT FISTPOUND
Agreed. Just done that fight and the censored cutscene is terrible. It looks like a loony tunes cartoon, really shits over the atmosphere they're trying to create.
That was a great read. It really lays out a lot of the reasons why I love this game so much.
This one is pretty good in a similar vain.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I don't think you get it. If anything, it's SUPPOSED to be like a cartoon. Why do you give a crap about Holly Summers? You just met her five minutes ago.
Did you even listen to any of their dialogue? Holly Summers really touched Travis, and it was actually one of the more serious parts of the game...
This is one case where I really think the violence has a level of artistic merit.
Anyway, uh, great game!
XBL - Follow Freeman
Yeah, but again, I ask you, why? Why did Holly Summers touch Travis? And to such a huge degree compared to, say, Dr. Peace, who Travis had no problem murdering even after hearing about his daughter troubles? And don't tell me
The only reason Holly touched Travis, and Shinobou too, for that matter, is because you as the game player don't want to murder girls, you want to show them how much better you are than them and have them give you their respect; shows them for not talking to you in high school, right? You'll cut the crap out of any crazy guy who so much as looks at you funny, but the second a cute girl pops up who's not clinically insane, Travis (and by extension, you) go all weak-kneed and googly eyed.
NMH final painting
I figured you didn't quite know what you were talking about at this point; how on Earth could you think Shinobu and Holly aren't clinically insane?
As for my experience with Holly:
DO NOT FISTPOUND
The side jobs were alright, but the repetition of assassination missions to gain money was really tiring. A cheap attempt at extending the game's already short length.
FUCK
XBL - Follow Freeman
If it makes you feel better, that boss is probably the hardest in the entire game.
WHOOSH
Read this
Eh. Second or third hardest.
Compared to Death Metal and Dr. Peace, she is way harder. Death Metal is pretty easy, Dr. Peace is easy once you remember to roll rather than block his bullets. Shinobu is definitely harder to fight than most of the bosses. The environment really hampers your efforts. Most of the time, it doesn't matter where on the stage you are standing. With her (And Holly), you have to worry about more than just being pushed into the outer walls.
Jeane and Henry both have wide open stages. Actually fighting them is much harder, but you don't need to worry about your position in stage.
I wish this had a boss rush type thing.
tldr, but I have already read something similar explaining how you as a gamer are Travis and the world is plain because its your world blabla, yes I see the similarities. But as a vehicle of enjoyment, the game has really bad parts.
If you read my post carefully you'll see I said the world, not the story (or characters). The world is worthless besides some signs and the places that actually have an event at.
It's probably just an insignificant nitpick, but it's worrisome when he says the Dark Side moves are named after desserts instead of Bizarre Jelly.
Edit: Having finished the article, I think it has a bit too much of a zeal to make its conclusion but still has a lot of good points.