Can someone give me a brief rundown of the different katanas? There doesn't seem to be any info in the game and I don't want to blow a load of money on the Tsubaki II. I got the prototype and it seemed to daze a lot but do shit for damage, I used it for 2 minutes then never again.
blood berry may or may not give you more slot line ups to put you in dark side mode
prototype is kind of cool, mostly because Travis wields it like Luke Skywalker and his lightsaber and it makes light saber noises
mark II has five blades, is named after some weird Japanese flower with five petals, and decaps swarms of dudes. Travis swings it like a baseball bat. I think it is better than the mark III against crowds of mooks, but some disagree.
mark III looks like some kind of space-samurai sword, has an infinite battery pack you can buy for a million dollars and attacks really fast. it also has a really good low charged move, if I remember right.
mark II is my favorite, mark III is better for boss fights.
Can someone give me a brief rundown of the different katanas? There doesn't seem to be any info in the game and I don't want to blow a load of money on the Tsubaki II. I got the prototype and it seemed to daze a lot but do shit for damage, I used it for 2 minutes then never again.
Weapons guide:
I don't have a lot of strong memories about the Tsubaki Mark I, but I do know that it turns your initial low attack into a beat; this is what's causing the dizziness in your enemies. If you don't want to do that, make sure you lead off with a High attack instead. You ought to get used to using the Mark I, because unlike the Blood Berry, you can buy two upgrades for it that improve its damage and battery usage.
The Tsubaki Mark II actually has five blades. Pretty much all of its death blows attack a wide radius around you, which is perfect for grinding the assassination mission "Gamble Fight" for money. It's powerful and slow, but enemies generally won't be able to counterattack between your swings.
The Tsubaki Mark III is a much more concentrated weapon than the Mark II. He doesn't do as much damage per swing and its death blows aren't as wide, but it swings faster. It has a weird attack where Travis turns his back to the enemy and stabs low; the delay is long enough that some mooks will be able to recover and counterattack. It sounds like a crippling disadvantage, but if you've got a lot of cash to throw around you can buy its battery-saver, which gives it unlimited battery power. Being able to block an unlimited number of attacks without having to go into recharge mode is a boon in the later boss battles. Also, once you get the Mark III's battery saver, you can beat pretty much any single henchman you face instantly with the "Killer 7 combo" (jump attack, jumping down slash). If you've got the patience, I strongly recommend getting the Mark III and its upgrades as soon as it's available.
Hope that helped!
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
i think the mark II has upgrades, but I really can't remember. The Mark II is the best for Gamble Fight. I regularly got around 80-90 kills with that, compared to 70s for the Mark III.
Everything after the Blood Berry has both a Power upgrade which makes saber slashes do more damage and a Battery upgrade that makes it take less electricity per action.
There are a few spots where it can be hard to determine where the next place to hide is. You lose a crapload of health and batteries for having to deflect the beam, and if you haven't been keeping track of your battery level it could blink off entirely, sending you several bunkers back and draining a ton of health as you take the full brunt of it. Then you're back to square one: lying prone in the middle of who-knows-where, and since you already broke all the doors down the little indicators aren't there any more. You've got a short amount of time to find yourself a new bunker, and if you don't you take another full attack.
All this to say: it's easy, but make a mistake under the the right conditions and it's brutal.
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
I just fought #3 before heading upstairs to get some sleep. It was pretty different.
I liked the bus bit. Seriously, fucking clown bus in Santa Destroy.
As far as the jumping attack vs jumping down slash...
I should have em both, but I could never figure out how to do the jumping down slash since there was no description. Are both waggle the nunchuck? I just do jumping attacks and off em when they're down.
The jumping down slash is performed by Z-targeting a fallen foe and pressing A - Travis will leap and plunge his beam katana into his opponent, killing the poor sap. Nice because it'll work from far away.
Is there a way to start a bitter game without it being new game + ?
I erased one of my slots and started a new one, but it didn't offer bitter. I'm thinking there isn't, which is really disappointing.
I haven't seen an option to do so; personally I wouldn't want to go dumpster and ball hunting again.
Edit: I also beat the game only last night. I do have to say it was a lot of fun pushing through to the end. I'd consider this an essential game for the wii.
The Mark III is fine if you do some extra tricks. For the final move, swing your remote in the desired direction once, and then once again, right after that. It makes the final blow far more powerful. I believe this works for all weapons, but it's only really needed for the III because the II is so powerul as is.
With that trick, I think you can make the III as powerful as the II but considerably faster. I still was more successful with the II on that 'kill as many as you can' mission to the tune of 20-30 guys.
Is there a way to start a bitter game without it being new game + ?
I erased one of my slots and started a new one, but it didn't offer bitter. I'm thinking there isn't, which is really disappointing.
I haven't seen an option to do so; personally I wouldn't want to go dumpster and ball hunting again.
Edit: I also beat the game only last night. I do have to say it was a lot of fun pushing through to the end. I'd consider this an essential game for the wii.
I want to try playing through bitter with just the blood berry and no health upgrades. It seems like it could be a good time.
As to the Mk. III: there's also that crazy jump-and-behead-everyone-around-Travis move that I haven't figured out how to do yet. I'm pretty sure it has to do with some waggle controls though, since my friend was trying out NMH and he happened to do it on like the third enemy he ran into.
The Mark III is fine if you do some extra tricks. For the final move, swing your remote in the desired direction once, and then once again, right after that. It makes the final blow far more powerful. I believe this works for all weapons, but it's only really needed for the III because the II is so powerul as is.
With that trick, I think you can make the III as powerful as the II but considerably faster. I still was more successful with the II on that 'kill as many as you can' mission to the tune of 20-30 guys.
I think you can do this with any deathblow. You can shake the wiimote or the nunchuck and triangles show up around the blade and it gets really... charged looking, with more energy in the blade. Right? Or are you talking about something else?
So I finished the regular and the real endings, and all I have to say is what the fuck was that? Really now even after hearing the slowed down speech, and all of that it seems to be that Suda 51 figured no one was paying attention to his writing, and just phoned in some bullshit. Or more likely he decided that it didn't matter what the fuck happened as long as it looked cool. Goddamnit he was fucking right! He we go on Bitter.
finalbroadcast on
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darunia106J-bob in gamesDeath MountainRegistered Userregular
edited March 2008
Man, was almost too scared to bring this thread back but then it comes back on it's own. Sweet. Got this used recently and it is awesome, very awesome.
One of the coolest moments was when I was getting into the Seventh Rank fight:
I was in my wardrobe and decided that an all black with a blue t-shirt would be cool looking, but the only decent blue shirt I had was my Destroy-man shirt. When I found out who the Seventh ranked assassin was I was all :shock: .
Man, was almost too scared to bring this thread back but then it comes back on it's own. Sweet. Got this used recently and it is awesome, very awesome.
One of the coolest moments was when I was getting into the Seventh Rank fight:
I was in my wardrobe and decided that an all black with a blue t-shirt would be cool looking, but the only decent blue shirt I had was my Destroy-man shirt. When I found out who the Seventh ranked assassin was I was all :shock: .
When I heard the 8th ranked match was at the high school, I put on my Santa Destroy Fencing Team shirt.
So I finished the regular and the real endings, and all I have to say is what the fuck was that? Really now even after hearing the slowed down speech, and all of that it seems to be that Suda 51 figured no one was paying attention to his writing, and just phoned in some bullshit. Or more likely he decided that it didn't matter what the fuck happened as long as it looked cool. Goddamnit he was fucking right! He we go on Bitter.
It wasn't phoned in at all. It's absolutely retarded if you only look at it on a superficial level, but if you dig a little it's actually a pretty damn impressive narrative (I don't know if that's the right word but it's midnight and I'm tired and shut up).
So I finished the regular and the real endings, and all I have to say is what the fuck was that? Really now even after hearing the slowed down speech, and all of that it seems to be that Suda 51 figured no one was paying attention to his writing, and just phoned in some bullshit. Or more likely he decided that it didn't matter what the fuck happened as long as it looked cool. Goddamnit he was fucking right! He we go on Bitter.
So I finished the regular and the real endings, and all I have to say is what the fuck was that? Really now even after hearing the slowed down speech, and all of that it seems to be that Suda 51 figured no one was paying attention to his writing, and just phoned in some bullshit. Or more likely he decided that it didn't matter what the fuck happened as long as it looked cool. Goddamnit he was fucking right! He we go on Bitter.
Basically, it digs into some of the symbolism going on in the game, and the reason why the ending, and even the whole game, is how it is.
The whole game, including the real ending as it is, is pretty much a commentary on the nature of videogames.
That article is actually the reason I bought the game.
Usually when it comes to M-rated games, I'm really picky about what I buy. Unless it's a clear-cut bad guy vs. good guy kind of thing (Resident Evil 4, Diablo II) I won't even try the game. But after reading that article I was convinced that this game will not only be fun but will also provide a really cool and insightful narrative. After playing for a while though, I'm convinced that No More Heroes is truly gaming art.
I'm not picky with games because of my age or because I have kids, I'm just very conscience about the entertainment I choose.
EDIT: Whoops, thought you linked the destructoid article, that was the one I read.
EDIT EDIT: Two more points of interest:
1.) I can understand why Suda 51 would be upset by No More Heroes sales, it's basically a pitch perfect game that every gamer would want. Free-roam environment, crazy over-the-top violence, a style resembling Kill Bill, not to mention the weapon of choice is a lightsaber mock-up. I guess it is true that unless your publisher is EA or your designer's name is Miyamoto or Schafer, your game won't sell well.
2.) Anyone else slightly disturbed when the guys you kill cry out "Mama" or "Papa" as they die?
It is, at the very least, a thought provoking commentary on the nature of videogames, and videogames as an artistic format, and sort of the hurdles and trivialities of the medium that have become ingrained into us that we take for granted.
After reading that write-up, I feel kind of proud that I didn't enjoy the game, since it appears I wasn't supposed to.
Unfortunately for the company that made it, that means I didn't buy it or recommend it to friends, but if the intentions outlined in the article are accurate and not just over-analyzing something, I guess it's effective. Just not profitable.
After reading that write-up, I feel kind of proud that I didn't enjoy the game, since it appears I wasn't supposed to.
Unfortunately for the company that made it, that means I didn't buy it or recommend it to friends, but if the intentions outlined in the article are accurate and not just over-analyzing something, I guess it's effective. Just not profitable.
The article didn't say that you weren't supposed to enjoy it. And indeed, the game isn't mean to be unfun - it is actually meant to be very fun.
The point of presenting the game as-is is supposed to show us that what we ask for, what we are given, is fun and satisfies what are current desires when playing games - but nevertheless, these things may be trivial, and perhaps even a barrier to games being taken seriously as 'art.'
I had a lot of fun with NMH, and the underlying commentary on what it provides and what it says beneath the surface is very thought provoking.
After reading that write-up, I feel kind of proud that I didn't enjoy the game, since it appears I wasn't supposed to.
Unfortunately for the company that made it, that means I didn't buy it or recommend it to friends, but if the intentions outlined in the article are accurate and not just over-analyzing something, I guess it's effective. Just not profitable.
The article didn't say that you weren't supposed to enjoy it. And indeed, the game isn't mean to be unfun - it is actually meant to be very fun.
The point of presenting the game as-is is supposed to show us that what we ask for, what we are given, is fun and satisfies what are current desires when playing games - but nevertheless, these things may be trivial, and perhaps even a barrier to games being taken seriously as 'art.'
I had a lot of fun with NMH, and the underlying commentary on what it provides and what it says beneath the surface is very thought provoking.
Well, I was thinking specifically of this part:
Would that pursuit of conquest - the need to be number one - be enough reason for players to kick open dumpsters, pick up litter, die over and over again against a wave of nigh unbeatable opposition, and even drive off of a friggin’ ramp into the ocean? The answer is “yes†- as long as Suda added enough bait. Like punctuating each boring job with another bloody, kill-happy mission.
It makes me feel like I didn't take the bait, which makes me feel like I essentially avoided a trap laid by the developer. The set down a stereotypical set of requirements for an awesome game and it didn't take with me (or the general public). I wonder if that at all impacts his purported* message.
*I say puported because I'm not sure I believe everything in that article is the actual intent of the designer. Some of it almost feels like an attempt to pander after the horrible reception of Killer7 for being too different, with the intention of being all, "Ha ha look how horrible the game you actually want to play is rather than my other genius game." But that's just the vibe I got while playing it.
Whether it took with the 'general public' or not is up to debate, because sales are no indication of quality or even general appeal; the general public cannot buy something if they don't know about it, and they certainly didn't know about No More Heroes' existence any more than most of Grasshopper's games. Even if they did, Ubi only put 200,000 copies of this game into the stream of commerce anyway.
The part about the 'boring job' is not that the game iteration of the job itself is boring, because a game has been made out of it, but what the job actually is may be boring. It mean it's hardly glamorous to have to pick up trash to earn a buck, but when it's turned into an arcade-style point-fest then maybe it is fun for some people. 'Course not everyone. But either way, there is the bait beyond that, which is the next big boss battle.
I will agree that not everything in the article is necessarily spot on, but I agree with the vast majority of it.
As far as the Killer7 'too different, here's the game you want, suckers' vibe, I never got that. I don't even think Suda is crazy enough to want to basically sabotage one of his own games to make a point about poor sales-reception of a previous game. I genuinely believe that NMH is designed to be fun, but to be fun in the sense that it provides the very thing that it appears gamers "want," but underlying that is a message about the triviality of some of the results of those things and just how hard it may be to develop games as art if most of us aren't looking to anything beyond the next meaningless kill of an enemy,etc.
Fair enough. As I was playing, I just never shook the feeling that for some reason the designer didn't like me, or was just bad at his job. This is not to try and bring down anyone who liked it and got meaning out of it. Reading the summary, though, was quicker and more entertaining than actually playing the game to get the same point out of it. For me, anyway.
I read the article, and I can get where their coming from. The fourth wall is pretty broken throughout the final act of the game. With that said, I can say that in the end Suda51 creates something much more Sex Pistols than Voidoids. It only superficially addresses those points, and could have built a much more powerful narrative around the subtext.
1.) I can understand why Suda 51 would be upset by No More Heroes sales, it's basically a pitch perfect game that every gamer would want. Free-roam environment, crazy over-the-top violence, a style resembling Kill Bill, not to mention the weapon of choice is a lightsaber mock-up. I guess it is true that unless your publisher is EA or your designer's name is Miyamoto or Schafer, your game won't sell well.
That's not really a fair assessment. Most gamers don't know the name Tim Shafer or even I would wager Shigeru Miyamoto, and in fact many of the sales of NMH are due directly to SUDA51's name recognition. As well, EA is successful because they make broad-appeal games, not because people associate "EA" with "entertainment." Of course, EA is also successful they are rich enough to market and distribute, both of which are ways that NMH was failed. I don't think the game has the same general appeal that you do; the art style is very different and strange, there are a plethora of "insider" references (What does mo-ay mean?), the main character is pretty ugly and skinny for an action dude, and it actually is pretty buggy, such as getting your motorcycle caught in a street light.
It took me 16 hours to completely finish the game on the sweet difficulty. I bought/found every bit of clothing, got gold medals in every job and K-Entertainment mission, found every Lovikov ball, did all the Master Ryu training, and got all the beam katana's with upgrades. I only missed two trading cards, so I need to do a third playthrough in order to get them.
That was quite a wild ride. Now to start bitter...
Giga Gopher on
My friend's band - Go on, have a listen
Oh it's such a nice day, I think I'll go out the window! Whoa!
0
darunia106J-bob in gamesDeath MountainRegistered Userregular
1.) I can understand why Suda 51 would be upset by No More Heroes sales, it's basically a pitch perfect game that every gamer would want. Free-roam environment, crazy over-the-top violence, a style resembling Kill Bill, not to mention the weapon of choice is a lightsaber mock-up. I guess it is true that unless your publisher is EA or your designer's name is Miyamoto or Schafer, your game won't sell well.
That's not really a fair assessment. Most gamers don't know the name Tim Shafer or even I would wager Shigeru Miyamoto, and in fact many of the sales of NMH are due directly to SUDA51's name recognition. As well, EA is successful because they make broad-appeal games, not because people associate "EA" with "entertainment." Of course, EA is also successful they are rich enough to market and distribute, both of which are ways that NMH was failed. I don't think the game has the same general appeal that you do; the art style is very different and strange, there are a plethora of "insider" references (What does mo-ay mean?), the main character is pretty ugly and skinny for an action dude, and it actually is pretty buggy, such as getting your motorcycle caught in a street light.
Okay, ya got me there. I just thought the appeal was a lot broader than that.
Incidentally, here's the wikipedia entry on moe (pronounced mo-ay).
1.) I can understand why Suda 51 would be upset by No More Heroes sales, it's basically a pitch perfect game that every gamer would want. Free-roam environment, crazy over-the-top violence, a style resembling Kill Bill, not to mention the weapon of choice is a lightsaber mock-up. I guess it is true that unless your publisher is EA or your designer's name is Miyamoto or Schafer, your game won't sell well.
That's not really a fair assessment. Most gamers don't know the name Tim Shafer or even I would wager Shigeru Miyamoto, and in fact many of the sales of NMH are due directly to SUDA51's name recognition. As well, EA is successful because they make broad-appeal games, not because people associate "EA" with "entertainment." Of course, EA is also successful they are rich enough to market and distribute, both of which are ways that NMH was failed. I don't think the game has the same general appeal that you do; the art style is very different and strange, there are a plethora of "insider" references (What does mo-ay mean?), the main character is pretty ugly and skinny for an action dude, and it actually is pretty buggy, such as getting your motorcycle caught in a street light.
First off, No More Heroes didn't necessarily 'fail.' We only know 2 things - that Grasshopper games are developed with extremely low budgets, thus necessitating fairly low sales to profit, and secondly, Ubi broke a deal with them publish the game in the West, for which they only produced 200k copies. It follows that, for ubi at least, they probably projected sub-200k sales and based their publishing deal on that. Incidentally, last NPD we got, NMH was at ~105k sales, which is a lot more than Killer7 did with Capcom's small push behind it.
Secondly, games don't achieve great sales or mass market appeal without a great deal of hype and marketing. Take Assassin's Creed, which is a new IP, and also published by Ubisoft. Sold millions, so what is the difference here? Ubi had been hyping this game for a full year before release with tons of trailers and teasers and also by making the game's producer an icon and throwing her into the forefront of the gaming media, giving countless interviews and presentations about the game. Then there were probably hundreds of special features on the game in gaming websites and magazines. And all that's on top of millions of dollars in advertisements in websites, gaming magazines, and most importantly, television ads. Furthermore, Assassin's Creed was an Ubi-developed game; they had an extremely vested interest in the game selling well, because they had to devote their own talent, resources, time, and money into it. Not the case with NMH - they simply paid Grasshopper a fee, published a few copies, ran a few crappy web banners, and called it a day. They had very little self-interest in its success beyond turning a quick buck.
When you take all the games for the PS2, and line them up on a graph, where you compare their sales with their review scores and marketing push, you find out a couple of things - that great games with great marketing get great sales, crap games with great marketing get good sales, while great games with bad marketing get shit sales, and bad games with bad marketing get shit sales. The other factor that majorly affects sales is box office numbers; if a game is based on a popular movie, the game does well, regardless of quality. Games based on an existing popular franchise also were found to do well regardless of scores. That's the overall result.
So no, sales are not an indication of quality of a game, and are not even an indicator of how well it appeals to the general public.
No More Heroes' marketing was this: A few web banners, and a few 3 second video clips on Gametrailers.com. That's it.
Also, plenty of games with mediocre gameplay, serious bugs, and crappy graphics have gone on to sell many hundreds of thousands of copies. Millions in some cases.
As far as Shiggy Miyamoto, his games don't sell because of his name. His games sell because they are either parts of major Nintendo franchises, or new franchises that Nintendo pushes a great deal of marketing power behind. The game designer behind a game is only a small factor in a game's huge sales success; the general public and the mainstream have no idea who developed the games they play, let alone who designed or produced them.
EA's games do well because EA is a monster when it comes to marketing as well; and they develop games targetting the mainstream and often as many consoles as they can with most of their products.
Posts
blood berry may or may not give you more slot line ups to put you in dark side mode
prototype is kind of cool, mostly because Travis wields it like Luke Skywalker and his lightsaber and it makes light saber noises
mark II has five blades, is named after some weird Japanese flower with five petals, and decaps swarms of dudes. Travis swings it like a baseball bat. I think it is better than the mark III against crowds of mooks, but some disagree.
mark III looks like some kind of space-samurai sword, has an infinite battery pack you can buy for a million dollars and attacks really fast. it also has a really good low charged move, if I remember right.
mark II is my favorite, mark III is better for boss fights.
Weapons guide:
The Tsubaki Mark II actually has five blades. Pretty much all of its death blows attack a wide radius around you, which is perfect for grinding the assassination mission "Gamble Fight" for money. It's powerful and slow, but enemies generally won't be able to counterattack between your swings.
The Tsubaki Mark III is a much more concentrated weapon than the Mark II. He doesn't do as much damage per swing and its death blows aren't as wide, but it swings faster. It has a weird attack where Travis turns his back to the enemy and stabs low; the delay is long enough that some mooks will be able to recover and counterattack. It sounds like a crippling disadvantage, but if you've got a lot of cash to throw around you can buy its battery-saver, which gives it unlimited battery power. Being able to block an unlimited number of attacks without having to go into recharge mode is a boon in the later boss battles. Also, once you get the Mark III's battery saver, you can beat pretty much any single henchman you face instantly with the "Killer 7 combo" (jump attack, jumping down slash). If you've got the patience, I strongly recommend getting the Mark III and its upgrades as soon as it's available.
Hope that helped!
?
I don't recall that one being difficult.
All this to say: it's easy, but make a mistake under the the right conditions and it's brutal.
As far as the jumping attack vs jumping down slash...
I should have em both, but I could never figure out how to do the jumping down slash since there was no description. Are both waggle the nunchuck? I just do jumping attacks and off em when they're down.
DO NOT FISTPOUND
XBL - Follow Freeman
Check the drawer in your bedroom. I don't know why you'd want to though.
Dark Side!
I erased one of my slots and started a new one, but it didn't offer bitter. I'm thinking there isn't, which is really disappointing.
I haven't seen an option to do so; personally I wouldn't want to go dumpster and ball hunting again.
Edit: I also beat the game only last night. I do have to say it was a lot of fun pushing through to the end. I'd consider this an essential game for the wii.
DO NOT FISTPOUND
With that trick, I think you can make the III as powerful as the II but considerably faster. I still was more successful with the II on that 'kill as many as you can' mission to the tune of 20-30 guys.
I want to try playing through bitter with just the blood berry and no health upgrades. It seems like it could be a good time.
As to the Mk. III: there's also that crazy jump-and-behead-everyone-around-Travis move that I haven't figured out how to do yet. I'm pretty sure it has to do with some waggle controls though, since my friend was trying out NMH and he happened to do it on like the third enemy he ran into.
I think you can do this with any deathblow. You can shake the wiimote or the nunchuck and triangles show up around the blade and it gets really... charged looking, with more energy in the blade. Right? Or are you talking about something else?
One of the coolest moments was when I was getting into the Seventh Rank fight:
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
It wasn't phoned in at all. It's absolutely retarded if you only look at it on a superficial level, but if you dig a little it's actually a pretty damn impressive narrative (I don't know if that's the right word but it's midnight and I'm tired and shut up).
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Read this.
Basically, it digs into some of the symbolism going on in the game, and the reason why the ending, and even the whole game, is how it is.
The whole game, including the real ending as it is, is pretty much a commentary on the nature of videogames.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
That article is actually the reason I bought the game.
Usually when it comes to M-rated games, I'm really picky about what I buy. Unless it's a clear-cut bad guy vs. good guy kind of thing (Resident Evil 4, Diablo II) I won't even try the game. But after reading that article I was convinced that this game will not only be fun but will also provide a really cool and insightful narrative. After playing for a while though, I'm convinced that No More Heroes is truly gaming art.
EDIT: Whoops, thought you linked the destructoid article, that was the one I read.
EDIT EDIT: Two more points of interest:
1.) I can understand why Suda 51 would be upset by No More Heroes sales, it's basically a pitch perfect game that every gamer would want. Free-roam environment, crazy over-the-top violence, a style resembling Kill Bill, not to mention the weapon of choice is a lightsaber mock-up. I guess it is true that unless your publisher is EA or your designer's name is Miyamoto or Schafer, your game won't sell well.
2.) Anyone else slightly disturbed when the guys you kill cry out "Mama" or "Papa" as they die?
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Unfortunately for the company that made it, that means I didn't buy it or recommend it to friends, but if the intentions outlined in the article are accurate and not just over-analyzing something, I guess it's effective. Just not profitable.
The article didn't say that you weren't supposed to enjoy it. And indeed, the game isn't mean to be unfun - it is actually meant to be very fun.
The point of presenting the game as-is is supposed to show us that what we ask for, what we are given, is fun and satisfies what are current desires when playing games - but nevertheless, these things may be trivial, and perhaps even a barrier to games being taken seriously as 'art.'
I had a lot of fun with NMH, and the underlying commentary on what it provides and what it says beneath the surface is very thought provoking.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Well, I was thinking specifically of this part:
It makes me feel like I didn't take the bait, which makes me feel like I essentially avoided a trap laid by the developer. The set down a stereotypical set of requirements for an awesome game and it didn't take with me (or the general public). I wonder if that at all impacts his purported* message.
*I say puported because I'm not sure I believe everything in that article is the actual intent of the designer. Some of it almost feels like an attempt to pander after the horrible reception of Killer7 for being too different, with the intention of being all, "Ha ha look how horrible the game you actually want to play is rather than my other genius game." But that's just the vibe I got while playing it.
The part about the 'boring job' is not that the game iteration of the job itself is boring, because a game has been made out of it, but what the job actually is may be boring. It mean it's hardly glamorous to have to pick up trash to earn a buck, but when it's turned into an arcade-style point-fest then maybe it is fun for some people. 'Course not everyone. But either way, there is the bait beyond that, which is the next big boss battle.
I will agree that not everything in the article is necessarily spot on, but I agree with the vast majority of it.
As far as the Killer7 'too different, here's the game you want, suckers' vibe, I never got that. I don't even think Suda is crazy enough to want to basically sabotage one of his own games to make a point about poor sales-reception of a previous game. I genuinely believe that NMH is designed to be fun, but to be fun in the sense that it provides the very thing that it appears gamers "want," but underlying that is a message about the triviality of some of the results of those things and just how hard it may be to develop games as art if most of us aren't looking to anything beyond the next meaningless kill of an enemy,etc.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
That's not really a fair assessment. Most gamers don't know the name Tim Shafer or even I would wager Shigeru Miyamoto, and in fact many of the sales of NMH are due directly to SUDA51's name recognition. As well, EA is successful because they make broad-appeal games, not because people associate "EA" with "entertainment." Of course, EA is also successful they are rich enough to market and distribute, both of which are ways that NMH was failed. I don't think the game has the same general appeal that you do; the art style is very different and strange, there are a plethora of "insider" references (What does mo-ay mean?), the main character is pretty ugly and skinny for an action dude, and it actually is pretty buggy, such as getting your motorcycle caught in a street light.
That was quite a wild ride. Now to start bitter...
Oh it's such a nice day, I think I'll go out the window! Whoa!
Okay, ya got me there. I just thought the appeal was a lot broader than that.
Incidentally, here's the wikipedia entry on moe (pronounced mo-ay).
First off, No More Heroes didn't necessarily 'fail.' We only know 2 things - that Grasshopper games are developed with extremely low budgets, thus necessitating fairly low sales to profit, and secondly, Ubi broke a deal with them publish the game in the West, for which they only produced 200k copies. It follows that, for ubi at least, they probably projected sub-200k sales and based their publishing deal on that. Incidentally, last NPD we got, NMH was at ~105k sales, which is a lot more than Killer7 did with Capcom's small push behind it.
Secondly, games don't achieve great sales or mass market appeal without a great deal of hype and marketing. Take Assassin's Creed, which is a new IP, and also published by Ubisoft. Sold millions, so what is the difference here? Ubi had been hyping this game for a full year before release with tons of trailers and teasers and also by making the game's producer an icon and throwing her into the forefront of the gaming media, giving countless interviews and presentations about the game. Then there were probably hundreds of special features on the game in gaming websites and magazines. And all that's on top of millions of dollars in advertisements in websites, gaming magazines, and most importantly, television ads. Furthermore, Assassin's Creed was an Ubi-developed game; they had an extremely vested interest in the game selling well, because they had to devote their own talent, resources, time, and money into it. Not the case with NMH - they simply paid Grasshopper a fee, published a few copies, ran a few crappy web banners, and called it a day. They had very little self-interest in its success beyond turning a quick buck.
When you take all the games for the PS2, and line them up on a graph, where you compare their sales with their review scores and marketing push, you find out a couple of things - that great games with great marketing get great sales, crap games with great marketing get good sales, while great games with bad marketing get shit sales, and bad games with bad marketing get shit sales. The other factor that majorly affects sales is box office numbers; if a game is based on a popular movie, the game does well, regardless of quality. Games based on an existing popular franchise also were found to do well regardless of scores. That's the overall result.
So no, sales are not an indication of quality of a game, and are not even an indicator of how well it appeals to the general public.
No More Heroes' marketing was this: A few web banners, and a few 3 second video clips on Gametrailers.com. That's it.
Also, plenty of games with mediocre gameplay, serious bugs, and crappy graphics have gone on to sell many hundreds of thousands of copies. Millions in some cases.
As far as Shiggy Miyamoto, his games don't sell because of his name. His games sell because they are either parts of major Nintendo franchises, or new franchises that Nintendo pushes a great deal of marketing power behind. The game designer behind a game is only a small factor in a game's huge sales success; the general public and the mainstream have no idea who developed the games they play, let alone who designed or produced them.
EA's games do well because EA is a monster when it comes to marketing as well; and they develop games targetting the mainstream and often as many consoles as they can with most of their products.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Actually just in North America. In Europe it is published by Rising Star Games.
Oops, I meant.. the far west.. :P
But yeah, only 200k copies published in North America according to NPD.
As far as Europe, yeah, it was Rising Star. It sucks, too, in that the European version of the game is like the Japanese version - no blood.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games