Founded my capital and one extra city, built some workers and city improvements while I teched to Construction. Then I built 8 Dog Soldiers and 3 Catapults, easily took over Philadelphia to the south and Washington, which was the optimal (4 square) distance from my second city.
Didn't think I really had the momentum to carry on as America seems to have sprawled cities across the continent, so I got a tech out of them for a 10 turn peace treaty, and now I'm nearly ready to declare war on them again and take the rest of them.
I'm bleeding small amounts of money, but I'm keeping my treasury up with plundering.
If you only had 2 cities to them sprawling across the continent, then I'm pretty sure that's a good indication as to where the problems start.
Also problems with the "initial worker seize" strategy, since all the CPU seems to do is retract them into their main base whenever I try to invade and take one.
Also problems with the "initial worker seize" strategy, since all the CPU seems to do is retract them into their main base whenever I try to invade and take one.
Screens from my recent game as hannibal-the razed cities are of my opponent, kublai khan
My military is slightly diminished in the screenshots, and I'm producing longbowmen, axes, and pults.
Spoilered for epic
Uh. Why'd you torch cities almost on top of your own?
...
And why are you so tiny? :P
Aroduc on
0
Triple BBastard of the NorthMARegistered Userregular
edited July 2007
I think my save game is bugged. Either that or I'm an idiot and I'm not doing something right.
I've got 2 sources of uranium, both with mines, both attached to my cities (one by roads, one by railroad), and neither are registering that I've got them. I mouse-over the uranium and it says "Ballson Cheen has 0". Ballson Cheen has been my civ name since CIV first came out. Anyway, why for no do I no have the uraniums?
Here's mine, about the same time (1200 AD, Epic) as yours.
Bloody Americans have done nothing but pump out Settlers, I was going to wipe them out but there are so many cities I think I'll just force them to become a Vassal state.
Only the top 3 of those cities are my own, 4 I plundered and there's another 3 I just destroyed because they were in terrible locations.
This is one of my better attempts at being a warlike civ.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Also problems with the "initial worker seize" strategy, since all the CPU seems to do is retract them into their main base whenever I try to invade and take one.
...
Declare and take them on the same turn, skippy.
I did manage to, finally. Previously they hadn't been leaving them on the edge of their territory.
so I get Astronomy, send over 25 rifles and 15 grenades
My military is mediocre in comparison-what's your number of cities? I typically remain at 4-6ish cities and mass produce units, razing all that remains.
Well, by this point I had taken over 5 other civs already. I was probably at about 10-12 cities, but half of those were former capitals. I typically play on Emperor (about 50/50 on wins) or Monarch (haven't lost on monarch in a long time), but this was down on Noble. I wanted to mess around with some of the BTS upgrades without having to fend off tough enemies.
I typically found 1-2 cities, then produce Axemen and crush the closest civ. If there's another weak civ nearby, I'll blast over and take them out too. If not, then I'll hole up with my 4-6 cities until catapults, and then proceed to rape and pillage everyone in sight. I'm still a builder at heart though, which is why I typically play Continents. That why I get a ton of land through warfare, then just tech my way to the win.
So erm any tips on how to not get my ass kicked on Prince ? The AI seems to research quite a bit faster than me.
I finally got a game going where I am not completely losing (suprise attack on neighbor and taking their capital does wonders), but I now got Portugal as my big neighbor, they are slightly ahead in tech and they got the rest of my opponents empire as vassal...... Probably need to do a blitzkrieg and hope they do not expect it as they are pleased with me.
Also #@^#@6 Longbows, i need a horde of siege weapons and other units to break though them. My units need an instant kill archers upgrade :P
Rome?
1. Rush iron working
2. find iron
3. build mine on iron
4. praetorians
5. profit!
Some civs obviously require a different approach. With the Dutch, I play it a little slower, typically taking over maybe one civ, 2 if they're just asking for it. Use my financial trait to out tech them. Maybe I attach with cats, maybe not. Once I get to steampower and build my dykes, it's game over (Dykes give +1 hammer on any tile that is water or is touching a river).
Early game techs are important too. I play a cottage economy, so I typically get pottery early. However, you have to address your current situation: Do I have 1-2 farmable resources in my early fat cross? Then get agriculture. Lots of hills? Grab mining and bronze working. Pigs and sheep and delicious cows? Better get your ass to Animal Husbandry stat.
I find food is more important early on, because the most important unit in the super early game is the worker, which can be built with food, and because growth = money and production. After that, I look at gold, because until I research a few techs, there's typically not much I can build anyways.
Religion is often overrated; I try to grab Code of Laws early for the courthouses + Confucianism. Bingo, religion, spread it reasonably and it will take over.
This is long and rambling, but just a few general hints.
Edit: Also, war, which seems to be most people's problem.
I will often last the entire game having only a single, solitary warrior defending my capital. Why? because, if I am attacking their capital then they cannot attack mine. Say it with me, people.
I typically keep one defender in my core cities, with 2 in my outward cities during warfare. These units are a mix -- don't stick 3 archers in a city just because archers are the best at defending a city. Stick, say, an archer, an axeman, and a spearman. That way, you can attack with your Axeman/Spearman to take out any melee/mounted unit that tries to take the city, and the archer is backup. The rest of my army is at the enemies throats. I typically atack outwards from my own civ, just so I don't have to deal with enemy units in my homeland. However, it can sometimes be useful to send a stack straight to the enemy capital/other juicy city. In this case, I'll stick a few units on the most likely path between the enemy and mine to catch their errant soldiers.
The way to build a big army is this: Focus on it. Here is a very general strategy:
Send warrior out scouting, in a spiral out from your capital, to identify potential city sites.
Build worker.
Use worker to improve capital.
Build warrior/settler, depending on needs.
Then build the other one you didn't build, chopping the settler if needed.
At this points, I've got a couple techs (2-3, hopefully, more if a good start, less if a really bad one). The thind is, most early techs don't give you useful buildings to build -- I don't need a monument in my capital, maybe a granary... so build a barracks, and then start building the best offensive soldier you can. The idea is, you don't have very much to build early on. Get a couple of axes out there! If you're quick enough, you can get 3-4/5 axes to your enemy's gates when he has 1-2 archers -- cha ching. Win. This is a little more dicey on Emperor, as they get, I think 3 archers to start with, plus a scout, plus a worker? Not sure on that, but they definitely get more than I do.
And let's say all you manage to get is the enemy's capital. Well, ok. You added an extra city, and taken a capital -- often a very good city site. And even better, you've taken this away from your enemy!
Obviously, very general, and I'm sure Aroduc will come along and either blast my ideas apart or add to them or what have you. But if nothing else, I hope it helps at least one person on here. Also, it's late, long day, etcetera, so I may have rambled a bit.
PS. There are no friends in a game of Civilization, there are Current Enemies and Future Enemies. Also, abuse slavery.
you can churn out axes at a crazy pace if you have a city with tons of food resources, floodplains, etc. Slavery is a key part of early game production. put a granary and a barracks into said city, and get to whippin'
Obviously, very general, and I'm sure Aroduc will come along and either blast my ideas apart or add to them or what have you. But if nothing else, I hope it helps at least one person on here. Also, it's late, long day, etcetera, so I may have rambled a bit.
PS. There are no friends in a game of Civilization, there are Current Enemies and Future Enemies. Also, abuse slavery.
We are as one.
Except for the slavery part. It's nice if you suddenly find yourself in a high pressure situation, but if you're already doing the cottage economy thing, you should be able to skirt the line between optimal production and malcontents.
Also, know and understand if civics are actually going to be useful to you. I typically stay as a despot until we suddenly become a democracy unless I'm really hard up for happiness. Like Disco, I keep very few units in my cities so the benefit is almost nonexistent. And stuff like Organized Religion... I find the upkeep typically far FAR outweighs the benefit in the early going until/unless you have an absolute cashcow somewhere.
I almost always try to rush the Oracle too. It's easily an ungodly good wonder in the early game. If you're a religious civ and you managed to snag a religion, you can use it to take Alphabet and get a huge jump on your neighbors by trading for techs literally nearly 100 turns before they can, or if you didn't snag a religion, grab early Code for the courthouses to prevent your economy from going into the shitter plus a religion. The Gardens are also something I consider a "Must Grab" wonder most games. Especially if you've been aggressive in expanding, picking it up can mean an absolutely massive and sudden jump in populace. Plus the health bonuses too... and it comes off Math... which you should be researching relatively early anyway for the forest benefits (assuming you have forests around).
Obviously, very general, and I'm sure Aroduc will come along and either blast my ideas apart or add to them or what have you. But if nothing else, I hope it helps at least one person on here. Also, it's late, long day, etcetera, so I may have rambled a bit.
PS. There are no friends in a game of Civilization, there are Current Enemies and Future Enemies. Also, abuse slavery.
We are as one.
Except for the slavery part. It's nice if you suddenly find yourself in a high pressure situation, but if you're already doing the cottage economy thing, you should be able to skirt the line between optimal production and malcontents.
Also, know and understand if civics are actually going to be useful to you. I typically stay as a despot until we suddenly become a democracy unless I'm really hard up for happiness. Like Disco, I keep very few units in my cities so the benefit is almost nonexistent. And stuff like Organized Religion... I find the upkeep typically far FAR outweighs the benefit in the early going until/unless you have an absolute cashcow somewhere.
I almost always try to rush the Oracle too. It's easily an ungodly good wonder in the early game. If you're a religious civ and you managed to snag a religion, you can use it to take Alphabet and get a huge jump on your neighbors by trading for techs literally nearly 100 turns before they can, or if you didn't snag a religion, grab early Code for the courthouses to prevent your economy from going into the shitter plus a religion. The Gardens are also something I consider a "Must Grab" wonder most games. Especially if you've been aggressive in expanding, picking it up can mean an absolutely massive and sudden jump in populace. Plus the health bonuses too... and it comes off Math... which you should be researching relatively early anyway for the forest benefits (assuming you have forests around).
True, with regards to slavery. I have never been a big slavery guy. I would typically rather keep a guy working on a mine rather than trade him away for 30 instant hammers and an unhappy guy. However, my last few games have given me an abundance of food (Fish Fish crabs, or corn wheat pigs, for examples), and in those situations it can be very powerful.
I tend to grab Code of Laws when I get the Oracle (I'm a big fan of the Oracle). Courthouses are great, and if you missed an early religion, then Confucianism can give you one. I typically stay away from Alphabet for the oracle for a stupid reason: I love the Great Library. Because of this, I typically get Literature as early as I can. It seems more reasonable to me to grab a (more) expensive, "out of the way" tech like Code of Laws than an expensive, on the way tech like Alphabet. Absurd reasoning? Probably. Both methods have pros and cons, I think.
Aroduc and I disagree on the Hanging Gardens. I typically go for the Great Library instead, as I have a limited number of hammers to use and I find the Great Library (+ culture, +2 scientist specialist points, +2 scientist specialists) better than the Hanging Gardens (+1 pop and health in each city) in most games. I find the Library shines with a philosophical civ, a high production start (the scientist specialists can offset the low gold, high production start), or a game where you nab Representation through the Pyramids. The Hanging Gardens benefit from more cities -- more citites, more free population. Thus it fits an early warmongering game where you have 5 or more cities when you build it.
With the new "Asthetics" tech in BTS, there's more of a gap between Writing --> Literature and Writing --. Mathematics, so I find I often have to choose one. The pro/con of each, of course is this: Going towards the Library takes you away from Mathematics, while going towards the Gardens takes you away from Literature. Whatever one you focus on, you might have to give up the other.
Civic choice is important. Organized religion sounds awesome, but I typically avoid a state religion so I don't piss off too many people (remember, I want wars on according to my schedule -- not theirs). Thus, I don't get the +25% to buldings bonus. And monasteries are great for the +10% research, so why adopt a civic to avoid building a good building? Also, unless I get the pyramids (which I only get at Monarch and below, and only bother with if I have stone or am idustrial), I don't typically change from despotism until Democracy or maybe representataion. Hereditary Rule is worthless, as all my soldiers are attacking, and the others are.... weak.
so i had a great game tonight, another culture victory. i guess this means i should move on from noble:
it started out in a tight spot with bismark really close to my north and ragnar just as close to my west. with no room to expand i was lucky to squeeze a city in between the two of them (just! had to chop out a settler) and then get a couple more culturally strong cities in a few little gaps. i got hinduism early and luckily both of them picked it up too. i was focusing on culture from the get-go so my empire quickly swallowed a whole bunch of their cities, and a disgruntled ragnar retaliated. my muskateers made short work of him and i got all but one of his cities and let the capitulated stump flounder for the rest of the game
i was surprised at how well two cities close together worked to smash bismark in a cultural tandem. maybe it was just that i got a culture flip of bismark's second city so early on. usually i'm careful to space my cities out perfectly so they don't overlap, but my second and third legendary cities in this game were spaced barely two squares apart. check out the short work they made of his capital:
(sorry about the crappy screen-caps, but yes that's berlin, and yep it's in revolt. it never flipped, though - maybe capitals can't be swallowed by culture? stupidly he left the palace there even as it shrunk down to just 3 population and was completely surrounded by my borders, while his other cities were growing quite well on the islands and peninsulas he was left with. )
Culture victories always took me the longest to achieve. I can never work out at what point should I lower my science slider to increase the culture slider. On the one hand, more culture, but more tech brings more buildings that produce culture...
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
(sorry about the crappy screen-caps, but yes that's berlin, and yep it's in revolt. it never flipped, though - maybe capitals can't be swallowed by culture? stupidly he left the palace there even as it shrunk down to just 3 population and was completely surrounded by my borders, while his other cities were growing quite well on the islands and peninsulas he was left with. )
I must be the only one that doesn't really enjoy single player. AI just doesn't do it for me.
So speaking of multiplayer...why no game on?
Eh, while playing with humans is going to generally be more fun on any game, I do like playing singleplayer when I want to just play through a full game and not have to wait for people to end their turns.
Culture victories always took me the longest to achieve. I can never work out at what point should I lower my science slider to increase the culture slider. On the one hand, more culture, but more tech brings more buildings that produce culture...
i never had the culture slider above 0% in that game, nor did i switch production to culture for any decent period. because those numbers are unmodified by +% culture buildings, their impact on the whole is pretty marginal. what you need to work on is getting a good great artist output so that you can put super specialists in, and otherwise keeping a good number of regular artist specialists working in your city. sistene chapel wonder is pretty much non-negotiable since it gives an extra two culture per specialist
Noble difficulty, completely normal settings except low sealine (who wants an endless ocean) and 2 extra civs because competition is good, especially if this is to be a learning experience for you poor fools who can't figure out early military warfare.
Since I'm choosing and want to make sure I win and win decisively, we'll go with one of my favorites, Roosevelt... Industrious and Organized.
I'll quickly annotate my game, but I'm not going to be doing much in the way of the cottage economy or the like since it is Noble and not really worth the effort.
I've played up through the first 100 turns, but it's a pain and sort of slow going to write up and then upload caps and whatnot, so I'll do it in 50 turn chunks.
First 50 Turns:
4000 BC
Not a bad starting location... though kind of a waste considering that my starting techs are fishing and agriculture.
A map... whoopie. At least I see a hut to go towards. Since I've got nothing for a worker to do except maybe 3 farms, build a warrior.
Heading towards the south hut, we find another hut. Nice.
3975 BC
Go for Mystic. Maybe I can get lucky and snag an early religion. Other 'main' choice would be Mining/Bronze to show copper.
Gold... whoopie.
3925 BC
This is interesting. Found a rival already.
3900 BC
Fuckers took my hut.
Notice how their warrior is out of the capital though...
3875 BC
Damn, they must have gotten a warrior from the hut. Those fuckfaces. They'll be first against the wall.
(forgot to cap)
3850 BC
Hooray, another hut.
3800 BC
Nice... free Husbandry from the hut... and there's Stone down here... all the more reason to crush the Indians early.
Borders of Washington expand... another hut to the NW, marble to the east.
3775 BC
Mysticism finishes.
Let's go for Polytheism and cross our fingers.
GASP! A Kublai Khan appears!
3675 BC
Glad I didn't go after Meditation.
3650 BC
To the surprise of nobody, Asoka converts. I continue skulking around Mongol territory.
3475 BC
First military unit finishes!
We'll send him to the nearby hut, then to the south. Ugh, my production blows. Might as well go for the settler to take the marble to the east.
3425 BC
Polytheism finishes.
Hinduism founds.
We convert.
Need the wheel to connect cities and resources...
More gold from that hut.
3400 BC
Anarchy over, all hail Vishnu.
3375 BC
GASP... lions!
3350 BC
We crush the lions. Asoka is probably the softer target right now for attacking, and given how much lower her score is, she's probably been working on a worker or settler to start... therefore, we start to move forces over near her.
3300 BC
Brennus finds us.
3275 BC
We slaughter some poor panthers.
3250 BC
Ugh, more lions.
3225 BC
The lions are killed, we take woodsman, fire rages through Mongol territory.
3150 BC
Rolly things are researched.
Let's get to clearing these forests... and for that we need bronze working... so mining.
3075 BC
I'm still lurking outside Indian territory. Note how they're working that tile in the NW... they'll send a worker there relatively quickly once they have one. I send back my other warrior to protect the capital since there is another Indian warrior wandering around.
3025 BC
Washington's borders expand again.
2950 BC
Mining finishes.
Bronze Working ho.
2850 BC
I'm still lurking. Fire in Celtia.
2825 BC
Settler finishes. The worker would be nice, but not really needed, so let's have anothe warrior for insurance purposes.
AI likes over there... looks good to me... 3 resources that I can see, multiple rivers, etc etc etc.
2775 BC
New York built. I'm uh... pretty sure that I shouldn't have a trade route there since you're supposed to need sailing to trade on rivers with BtS... but whatever. This time we're going for the Worker though. I'm starting to think I may not get one from India until they build a second city. :-(
2750 BC
Yeah, wonderful, whatever.
Welp. That's 50 turns.
As far as early analysis goes... having both my nearby neighbors be highly cultural really makes the early worker grab a bit rough since their borders push back outside of the workable area pretty quickly, so workers won't show up on the borders as much. Still I should be able to snag at least a couple, and the marble and stone nearby... even though I'm going to need to kill two civs for the stone... is certainly nice. I just need to find some copper, and I'll be set for some slaughter. Delhi might be rough since it's on a hill, but not if I bum rush them and take our their infrastructure.
Just for the fuck of it, I'm starting a game with the same settings as you picked. Lets see how horribly I do in comparison.
edit: I need to build archers sooner. Turn 122 Ive run into Stalin, Sitting Bull, Boudica, and Augustus Caesar.... I took one of Stalin's workers, He took Boston...
Basically, it means that you will rely on using lots and lots of cottages to fuel your economy. Of course, cottages start out being useless, but once they mature your income will be huge. The simplest way to do it is to use the appropriate improvements on any resources, build a farm or two if food is scarce, then throw cottages on every other square.
The "Cottage Economy" is usually contrasted with the "Specialist Economy" which uses (surprise!) specialists to fuel money and research, with the extra benefit of generating more Great People.
Thanks for the game, Aroduc! I enjoyed playing it, and I'm looking forward to finding out how yours went too.
It was a rocky start for me. I found there was horrible production and in my rush to grab an early religion I didn't pay attention to myself and ended up stupidly building a worker who had nothing to do. I was always going to go for the culture victory, though, and Roosevelt's Industriousness helped a hell of a lot for grabbing wonders. There were a couple of points where I was just going to pack it in but then things started looking up...
I got really lucky and converted the entire continent (except for Brennus, the stubborn bastard) to Judaism, and basically prospered like mad from the wealth it poured into my capital. My two peripheral cities floundered in population for the whole game because they weren't that well placed and I had millions of spies attacking my happiness and health, but I managed to pump their production up enough to get the needed wonders. Caught a few barb cities and eventually culture flipped a couple of Kublai and Asoka's too, though a couple of them just wouldn't change over, probably because of the units in there. I didn't explore at all, just sat and appeased the neighbours with free techs from my permanent 100% tech rate.
Anyway I ended up winning a culture victory in 1900AD with a score of 16839.
One strange thing happened - Asoka vassaled to me! And this in a game where I wasn't once at war with anybody. I guess he just thought I was a cool guy.
Some screens of note:
Here's how my three legendary cities (Washington, NY, Boston) looked to start with. One sick, one unhappy, with the power-hungry capital in the middle - pretty much the story of the whole game. I ended up extending to 8 cities including Bombay and Old Sarai, which was plenty.
Fear my might! I'm such a huge force they forgot to put me on the list.
Here's how my three big cities looked a couple turns before the end. I timed my legendary cities damn well, and the last two hit 75,000 within three turns of each other, the capital not much earlier. It's much easier to push them all along at the same rate rather than focus on boosting one to the end then playing catch-up with the others - you'll probably find you put all your eggs in one basket.
Hooray! I actually thought this was a normal length game to start with so this came quite a few turns later than I expected, but the cultural momentum of my cities would have taken them to hundreds of thousands of points.
That't the screen I was waiting for! A much lower score than my last big game but oh well, it still hit the top of the ladder which is good enough for me. And I only killed four barbarians.
So I noticed something. I have been leading my neighbors for research, but somehow I managed to be the smallest civilization come a few hundred AD. I swear, there is a sling-shot thing going on. They were really able to keep up for some reason.
My first try of the Aroduc game failed horribly (i'm still learning this, had a victory on warlord, but on noble the AI backstabbery got to me, I had worked diligently to convert everyone to the true religion (which in this case was confusianism), give borders, trade techs, and set up resource trade.... then i get attacked by someone who has been marked as "pleased" all game and who has like +11 on relation bonuses and -3 for borders..... and i wasn't ready military wise. My 3 outpost cities fell in the first turn. And then stacks of doom were at my production/wonder centres.
It was really a shame, I had a good position on the map neighbouring only 3 others, a 3-4 tech advantage, decent culture, and having access to every resource i had a shred of hope to (including marble stone copper iron and horses, as well as luxuries and foods). Guess i need to build more military.
I bought BtS as soon as I could (pre-loaded) but I still haven't played it. It's a timeless game though, so I could first start it up months from now and it'll still be just as much fun.
CoH is kinda like that too, so you're good either way.
Posts
I frequently eliminate the initial few workers of adjacent civs, yet I lack the massive invasion force to complement the economic damage.
If you only had 2 cities to them sprawling across the continent, then I'm pretty sure that's a good indication as to where the problems start.
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Declare and take them on the same turn, skippy.
My military is slightly diminished in the screenshots, and I'm producing longbowmen, axes, and pults.
Spoilered for epic
...
And why are you so tiny? :P
I've got 2 sources of uranium, both with mines, both attached to my cities (one by roads, one by railroad), and neither are registering that I've got them. I mouse-over the uranium and it says "Ballson Cheen has 0". Ballson Cheen has been my civ name since CIV first came out. Anyway, why for no do I no have the uraniums?
Bloody Americans have done nothing but pump out Settlers, I was going to wipe them out but there are so many cities I think I'll just force them to become a Vassal state.
Only the top 3 of those cities are my own, 4 I plundered and there's another 3 I just destroyed because they were in terrible locations.
This is one of my better attempts at being a warlike civ.
They were one-pop, devoid of use, mongolian cities.
My territory is small considering I'm surrounded by other civs.
I did manage to, finally. Previously they hadn't been leaving them on the edge of their territory.
So erm any tips on how to not get my ass kicked on Prince ? The AI seems to research quite a bit faster than me.
I finally got a game going where I am not completely losing (suprise attack on neighbor and taking their capital does wonders), but I now got Portugal as my big neighbor, they are slightly ahead in tech and they got the rest of my opponents empire as vassal...... Probably need to do a blitzkrieg and hope they do not expect it as they are pleased with me.
Also #@^#@6 Longbows, i need a horde of siege weapons and other units to break though them.
Rome?
1. Rush iron working
2. find iron
3. build mine on iron
4. praetorians
5. profit!
Some civs obviously require a different approach. With the Dutch, I play it a little slower, typically taking over maybe one civ, 2 if they're just asking for it. Use my financial trait to out tech them. Maybe I attach with cats, maybe not. Once I get to steampower and build my dykes, it's game over (Dykes give +1 hammer on any tile that is water or is touching a river).
Early game techs are important too. I play a cottage economy, so I typically get pottery early. However, you have to address your current situation: Do I have 1-2 farmable resources in my early fat cross? Then get agriculture. Lots of hills? Grab mining and bronze working. Pigs and sheep and delicious cows? Better get your ass to Animal Husbandry stat.
I find food is more important early on, because the most important unit in the super early game is the worker, which can be built with food, and because growth = money and production. After that, I look at gold, because until I research a few techs, there's typically not much I can build anyways.
Religion is often overrated; I try to grab Code of Laws early for the courthouses + Confucianism. Bingo, religion, spread it reasonably and it will take over.
This is long and rambling, but just a few general hints.
Edit: Also, war, which seems to be most people's problem.
I will often last the entire game having only a single, solitary warrior defending my capital. Why? because, if I am attacking their capital then they cannot attack mine. Say it with me, people.
I typically keep one defender in my core cities, with 2 in my outward cities during warfare. These units are a mix -- don't stick 3 archers in a city just because archers are the best at defending a city. Stick, say, an archer, an axeman, and a spearman. That way, you can attack with your Axeman/Spearman to take out any melee/mounted unit that tries to take the city, and the archer is backup. The rest of my army is at the enemies throats. I typically atack outwards from my own civ, just so I don't have to deal with enemy units in my homeland. However, it can sometimes be useful to send a stack straight to the enemy capital/other juicy city. In this case, I'll stick a few units on the most likely path between the enemy and mine to catch their errant soldiers.
The way to build a big army is this: Focus on it. Here is a very general strategy:
Send warrior out scouting, in a spiral out from your capital, to identify potential city sites.
Build worker.
Use worker to improve capital.
Build warrior/settler, depending on needs.
Then build the other one you didn't build, chopping the settler if needed.
At this points, I've got a couple techs (2-3, hopefully, more if a good start, less if a really bad one). The thind is, most early techs don't give you useful buildings to build -- I don't need a monument in my capital, maybe a granary... so build a barracks, and then start building the best offensive soldier you can. The idea is, you don't have very much to build early on. Get a couple of axes out there! If you're quick enough, you can get 3-4/5 axes to your enemy's gates when he has 1-2 archers -- cha ching. Win. This is a little more dicey on Emperor, as they get, I think 3 archers to start with, plus a scout, plus a worker? Not sure on that, but they definitely get more than I do.
And let's say all you manage to get is the enemy's capital. Well, ok. You added an extra city, and taken a capital -- often a very good city site. And even better, you've taken this away from your enemy!
Obviously, very general, and I'm sure Aroduc will come along and either blast my ideas apart or add to them or what have you. But if nothing else, I hope it helps at least one person on here. Also, it's late, long day, etcetera, so I may have rambled a bit.
PS. There are no friends in a game of Civilization, there are Current Enemies and Future Enemies. Also, abuse slavery.
We are as one.
Except for the slavery part. It's nice if you suddenly find yourself in a high pressure situation, but if you're already doing the cottage economy thing, you should be able to skirt the line between optimal production and malcontents.
Also, know and understand if civics are actually going to be useful to you. I typically stay as a despot until we suddenly become a democracy unless I'm really hard up for happiness. Like Disco, I keep very few units in my cities so the benefit is almost nonexistent. And stuff like Organized Religion... I find the upkeep typically far FAR outweighs the benefit in the early going until/unless you have an absolute cashcow somewhere.
I almost always try to rush the Oracle too. It's easily an ungodly good wonder in the early game. If you're a religious civ and you managed to snag a religion, you can use it to take Alphabet and get a huge jump on your neighbors by trading for techs literally nearly 100 turns before they can, or if you didn't snag a religion, grab early Code for the courthouses to prevent your economy from going into the shitter plus a religion. The Gardens are also something I consider a "Must Grab" wonder most games. Especially if you've been aggressive in expanding, picking it up can mean an absolutely massive and sudden jump in populace. Plus the health bonuses too... and it comes off Math... which you should be researching relatively early anyway for the forest benefits (assuming you have forests around).
True, with regards to slavery. I have never been a big slavery guy. I would typically rather keep a guy working on a mine rather than trade him away for 30 instant hammers and an unhappy guy. However, my last few games have given me an abundance of food (Fish Fish crabs, or corn wheat pigs, for examples), and in those situations it can be very powerful.
I tend to grab Code of Laws when I get the Oracle (I'm a big fan of the Oracle). Courthouses are great, and if you missed an early religion, then Confucianism can give you one. I typically stay away from Alphabet for the oracle for a stupid reason: I love the Great Library. Because of this, I typically get Literature as early as I can. It seems more reasonable to me to grab a (more) expensive, "out of the way" tech like Code of Laws than an expensive, on the way tech like Alphabet. Absurd reasoning? Probably. Both methods have pros and cons, I think.
Aroduc and I disagree on the Hanging Gardens. I typically go for the Great Library instead, as I have a limited number of hammers to use and I find the Great Library (+ culture, +2 scientist specialist points, +2 scientist specialists) better than the Hanging Gardens (+1 pop and health in each city) in most games. I find the Library shines with a philosophical civ, a high production start (the scientist specialists can offset the low gold, high production start), or a game where you nab Representation through the Pyramids. The Hanging Gardens benefit from more cities -- more citites, more free population. Thus it fits an early warmongering game where you have 5 or more cities when you build it.
With the new "Asthetics" tech in BTS, there's more of a gap between Writing --> Literature and Writing --. Mathematics, so I find I often have to choose one. The pro/con of each, of course is this: Going towards the Library takes you away from Mathematics, while going towards the Gardens takes you away from Literature. Whatever one you focus on, you might have to give up the other.
Civic choice is important. Organized religion sounds awesome, but I typically avoid a state religion so I don't piss off too many people (remember, I want wars on according to my schedule -- not theirs). Thus, I don't get the +25% to buldings bonus. And monasteries are great for the +10% research, so why adopt a civic to avoid building a good building? Also, unless I get the pyramids (which I only get at Monarch and below, and only bother with if I have stone or am idustrial), I don't typically change from despotism until Democracy or maybe representataion. Hereditary Rule is worthless, as all my soldiers are attacking, and the others are.... weak.
I didn't realize Beyond the Sword made 'em smart enough to go for that win.
it started out in a tight spot with bismark really close to my north and ragnar just as close to my west. with no room to expand i was lucky to squeeze a city in between the two of them (just! had to chop out a settler) and then get a couple more culturally strong cities in a few little gaps. i got hinduism early and luckily both of them picked it up too. i was focusing on culture from the get-go so my empire quickly swallowed a whole bunch of their cities, and a disgruntled ragnar retaliated. my muskateers made short work of him and i got all but one of his cities and let the capitulated stump flounder for the rest of the game
i was surprised at how well two cities close together worked to smash bismark in a cultural tandem. maybe it was just that i got a culture flip of bismark's second city so early on. usually i'm careful to space my cities out perfectly so they don't overlap, but my second and third legendary cities in this game were spaced barely two squares apart. check out the short work they made of his capital:
(sorry about the crappy screen-caps, but yes that's berlin, and yep it's in revolt. it never flipped, though - maybe capitals can't be swallowed by culture? stupidly he left the palace there even as it shrunk down to just 3 population and was completely surrounded by my borders, while his other cities were growing quite well on the islands and peninsulas he was left with. )
I was dan quayle'd again.
I nearly managed a diplomatic victory.
No, they can. Even if it's their last city.
So speaking of multiplayer...why no game on?
Janson: Listen bitches, just shut up and get back to licking my floor clean.
I'm not dealing with your kind of crap today.
Eh, while playing with humans is going to generally be more fun on any game, I do like playing singleplayer when I want to just play through a full game and not have to wait for people to end their turns.
i never had the culture slider above 0% in that game, nor did i switch production to culture for any decent period. because those numbers are unmodified by +% culture buildings, their impact on the whole is pretty marginal. what you need to work on is getting a good great artist output so that you can put super specialists in, and otherwise keeping a good number of regular artist specialists working in your city. sistene chapel wonder is pretty much non-negotiable since it gives an extra two culture per specialist
Civ 4 BtS Challenge:
http://seiha.org/images/civbts3/AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave
Noble difficulty, completely normal settings except low sealine (who wants an endless ocean) and 2 extra civs because competition is good, especially if this is to be a learning experience for you poor fools who can't figure out early military warfare.
Since I'm choosing and want to make sure I win and win decisively, we'll go with one of my favorites, Roosevelt... Industrious and Organized.
I'll quickly annotate my game, but I'm not going to be doing much in the way of the cottage economy or the like since it is Noble and not really worth the effort.
I've played up through the first 100 turns, but it's a pain and sort of slow going to write up and then upload caps and whatnot, so I'll do it in 50 turn chunks.
First 50 Turns:
Not a bad starting location... though kind of a waste considering that my starting techs are fishing and agriculture.
A map... whoopie. At least I see a hut to go towards. Since I've got nothing for a worker to do except maybe 3 farms, build a warrior.
Heading towards the south hut, we find another hut. Nice.
3975 BC
Go for Mystic. Maybe I can get lucky and snag an early religion. Other 'main' choice would be Mining/Bronze to show copper.
Gold... whoopie.
3925 BC
This is interesting. Found a rival already.
3900 BC
Fuckers took my hut.
Notice how their warrior is out of the capital though...
3875 BC
Damn, they must have gotten a warrior from the hut. Those fuckfaces. They'll be first against the wall.
(forgot to cap)
3850 BC
Hooray, another hut.
3800 BC
Nice... free Husbandry from the hut... and there's Stone down here... all the more reason to crush the Indians early.
Borders of Washington expand... another hut to the NW, marble to the east.
3775 BC
Mysticism finishes.
Let's go for Polytheism and cross our fingers.
GASP! A Kublai Khan appears!
3675 BC
Glad I didn't go after Meditation.
3650 BC
To the surprise of nobody, Asoka converts. I continue skulking around Mongol territory.
3475 BC
First military unit finishes!
We'll send him to the nearby hut, then to the south. Ugh, my production blows. Might as well go for the settler to take the marble to the east.
3425 BC
Polytheism finishes.
Hinduism founds.
We convert.
Need the wheel to connect cities and resources...
More gold from that hut.
3400 BC
Anarchy over, all hail Vishnu.
3375 BC
GASP... lions!
3350 BC
We crush the lions. Asoka is probably the softer target right now for attacking, and given how much lower her score is, she's probably been working on a worker or settler to start... therefore, we start to move forces over near her.
3300 BC
Brennus finds us.
3275 BC
We slaughter some poor panthers.
3250 BC
Ugh, more lions.
3225 BC
The lions are killed, we take woodsman, fire rages through Mongol territory.
3150 BC
Rolly things are researched.
Let's get to clearing these forests... and for that we need bronze working... so mining.
3075 BC
I'm still lurking outside Indian territory. Note how they're working that tile in the NW... they'll send a worker there relatively quickly once they have one. I send back my other warrior to protect the capital since there is another Indian warrior wandering around.
3025 BC
Washington's borders expand again.
2950 BC
Mining finishes.
Bronze Working ho.
2850 BC
I'm still lurking. Fire in Celtia.
2825 BC
Settler finishes. The worker would be nice, but not really needed, so let's have anothe warrior for insurance purposes.
AI likes over there... looks good to me... 3 resources that I can see, multiple rivers, etc etc etc.
2775 BC
New York built. I'm uh... pretty sure that I shouldn't have a trade route there since you're supposed to need sailing to trade on rivers with BtS... but whatever. This time we're going for the Worker though. I'm starting to think I may not get one from India until they build a second city. :-(
2750 BC
Yeah, wonderful, whatever.
Welp. That's 50 turns.
As far as early analysis goes... having both my nearby neighbors be highly cultural really makes the early worker grab a bit rough since their borders push back outside of the workable area pretty quickly, so workers won't show up on the borders as much. Still I should be able to snag at least a couple, and the marble and stone nearby... even though I'm going to need to kill two civs for the stone... is certainly nice. I just need to find some copper, and I'll be set for some slaughter. Delhi might be rough since it's on a hill, but not if I bum rush them and take our their infrastructure.
Save at this point:
http://seiha.org/images/civbts3/Aroduc%20BC-2750.CivBeyondSwordSave
edit: I need to build archers sooner. Turn 122 Ive run into Stalin, Sitting Bull, Boudica, and Augustus Caesar.... I took one of Stalin's workers, He took Boston...
i hate when my colonies have the same name as another guy
and then an apostolic palace vote comes up asking to kill the ottomans
WHICH FUCKING ONE
I don't think he is ever enthusiastic about anything.
He's a Vulcan, duh.
Basically, it means that you will rely on using lots and lots of cottages to fuel your economy. Of course, cottages start out being useless, but once they mature your income will be huge. The simplest way to do it is to use the appropriate improvements on any resources, build a farm or two if food is scarce, then throw cottages on every other square.
The "Cottage Economy" is usually contrasted with the "Specialist Economy" which uses (surprise!) specialists to fuel money and research, with the extra benefit of generating more Great People.
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
It was a rocky start for me. I found there was horrible production and in my rush to grab an early religion I didn't pay attention to myself and ended up stupidly building a worker who had nothing to do. I was always going to go for the culture victory, though, and Roosevelt's Industriousness helped a hell of a lot for grabbing wonders. There were a couple of points where I was just going to pack it in but then things started looking up...
I got really lucky and converted the entire continent (except for Brennus, the stubborn bastard) to Judaism, and basically prospered like mad from the wealth it poured into my capital. My two peripheral cities floundered in population for the whole game because they weren't that well placed and I had millions of spies attacking my happiness and health, but I managed to pump their production up enough to get the needed wonders. Caught a few barb cities and eventually culture flipped a couple of Kublai and Asoka's too, though a couple of them just wouldn't change over, probably because of the units in there. I didn't explore at all, just sat and appeased the neighbours with free techs from my permanent 100% tech rate.
Anyway I ended up winning a culture victory in 1900AD with a score of 16839.
One strange thing happened - Asoka vassaled to me! And this in a game where I wasn't once at war with anybody. I guess he just thought I was a cool guy.
Some screens of note:
Here's how my three legendary cities (Washington, NY, Boston) looked to start with. One sick, one unhappy, with the power-hungry capital in the middle - pretty much the story of the whole game. I ended up extending to 8 cities including Bombay and Old Sarai, which was plenty.
Fear my might! I'm such a huge force they forgot to put me on the list.
Here's how my three big cities looked a couple turns before the end. I timed my legendary cities damn well, and the last two hit 75,000 within three turns of each other, the capital not much earlier. It's much easier to push them all along at the same rate rather than focus on boosting one to the end then playing catch-up with the others - you'll probably find you put all your eggs in one basket.
Hooray! I actually thought this was a normal length game to start with so this came quite a few turns later than I expected, but the cultural momentum of my cities would have taken them to hundreds of thousands of points.
That't the screen I was waiting for! A much lower score than my last big game but oh well, it still hit the top of the ladder which is good enough for me. And I only killed four barbarians.
It was really a shame, I had a good position on the map neighbouring only 3 others, a 3-4 tech advantage, decent culture, and having access to every resource i had a shred of hope to (including marble stone copper iron and horses, as well as luxuries and foods). Guess i need to build more military.
Which should I acquire?
I'm capable of purchasing both, yet I'd prefer dedicating my soul to one game.
I bought BtS as soon as I could (pre-loaded) but I still haven't played it. It's a timeless game though, so I could first start it up months from now and it'll still be just as much fun.
CoH is kinda like that too, so you're good either way.
Depends if you want RTS or 4X really.
Are there any other recent interesting strategy games? I've heard medieval 2 is decent.