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Becoming more independent
Godfather
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Don't know if anyone remembers here (and I wish I had a link to it), but roughly about a month ago I posted a topic here that asked questions about the credibilty of Full Sail. I'm not going to review over all of what I learned in that topic, but the ultimatum that I decided was that this school was not for me, and that i'd have to try my luck somewhere else.
Flash forward to last night. During that time I had hunted for (and found) a consistent job and went on a ten day vacation at Hawaii. I had the interview the day before I left on the trip, and the manager who sets up the hours told me to call him back the minute I get back. Unfortunately, when I got back from the trip and gave him a call, it turns out that he went on a week-long vacation the very day I returned, so I can't start until thursday. Personally I could have really used that week of work (I have another job that doesn't give enough hours), but as long as I snagged a consistent job i'm not really complaining at this point. Anyways, my college situation was (and still is) pretty bleak, but I had found a few places of interest (San Francisco, Georgia, Hawaii (dirt cheap tuition), and hell, even other places right here in Texas).
However, anywhere I seem to pick gets consistently shot down by my parents. Everytime I find a solution to one of their problems they just keep adding another one to the mix. I want to major in Art/Animation, but anytime I try to find a place that I have some interest in they keep dashing that idea, saying that it's either too expensive, too far away, or that I just can't function on my own for me to sustain my own well being.
This is absolute bullshit in my opinion.
I know that when I go to college I won't be ready for a shitton of things. That's the point of going to college; to experience real life on your own, to figure out things the hard way and become better for it, and everytime I try and point this out they keep avoiding the issue, picking apart another one of my flaws. For example, when I tried to bring this very subject matter up, she said that it wouldn't matter anyways, because i'm not talented enough to even get into these colleges in the first place and that I should just go with an associate degree at the local community college, staying at home in the process.
Guys, i'm sure you'll all agree with me when I say that that freedom is absolutely necessary if order to make it in the real world. I know that I still have problems being independent, and I struggle with a lot of things regarding common sense, but the fact is that i'm trying my hardest, and my parents aren't giving me a chance to prove myself because they don't think i'm independent enough to live on my own and that my field is very competitive, and there's a very good chance that there isn't any real money into this career choice. They're very smart when it comes to money, and while it's helped our family stay out of the red, it's also limited their trust in matters such as this, so I guess it's sort of a double-edged sword. Right now i'm pretty much at a loss as to what to do college-wise. It's not that I haven't been trying, it's just that I haven't found the one college that pertains to their silver spoon standards.
The only thing I do know is that I just shouldn't give up on this whole art thing. I've only been taking this whole art thing seriously as a career path for a little over a year, and i'm absolutely certain that it's what I want to do with my life. To prove that I really want it bad enough, I need help in becoming more of an independent individual, proving to them once and for all that I can live on my own, and thus hopefully open some doors that'll get them to at least consider going to college the way it was meant to be attended.
TL;DR - I need tips on becoming more independent.
Flash forward to last night. During that time I had hunted for (and found) a consistent job and went on a ten day vacation at Hawaii. I had the interview the day before I left on the trip, and the manager who sets up the hours told me to call him back the minute I get back. Unfortunately, when I got back from the trip and gave him a call, it turns out that he went on a week-long vacation the very day I returned, so I can't start until thursday. Personally I could have really used that week of work (I have another job that doesn't give enough hours), but as long as I snagged a consistent job i'm not really complaining at this point. Anyways, my college situation was (and still is) pretty bleak, but I had found a few places of interest (San Francisco, Georgia, Hawaii (dirt cheap tuition), and hell, even other places right here in Texas).
However, anywhere I seem to pick gets consistently shot down by my parents. Everytime I find a solution to one of their problems they just keep adding another one to the mix. I want to major in Art/Animation, but anytime I try to find a place that I have some interest in they keep dashing that idea, saying that it's either too expensive, too far away, or that I just can't function on my own for me to sustain my own well being.
This is absolute bullshit in my opinion.
I know that when I go to college I won't be ready for a shitton of things. That's the point of going to college; to experience real life on your own, to figure out things the hard way and become better for it, and everytime I try and point this out they keep avoiding the issue, picking apart another one of my flaws. For example, when I tried to bring this very subject matter up, she said that it wouldn't matter anyways, because i'm not talented enough to even get into these colleges in the first place and that I should just go with an associate degree at the local community college, staying at home in the process.
Guys, i'm sure you'll all agree with me when I say that that freedom is absolutely necessary if order to make it in the real world. I know that I still have problems being independent, and I struggle with a lot of things regarding common sense, but the fact is that i'm trying my hardest, and my parents aren't giving me a chance to prove myself because they don't think i'm independent enough to live on my own and that my field is very competitive, and there's a very good chance that there isn't any real money into this career choice. They're very smart when it comes to money, and while it's helped our family stay out of the red, it's also limited their trust in matters such as this, so I guess it's sort of a double-edged sword. Right now i'm pretty much at a loss as to what to do college-wise. It's not that I haven't been trying, it's just that I haven't found the one college that pertains to their silver spoon standards.
The only thing I do know is that I just shouldn't give up on this whole art thing. I've only been taking this whole art thing seriously as a career path for a little over a year, and i'm absolutely certain that it's what I want to do with my life. To prove that I really want it bad enough, I need help in becoming more of an independent individual, proving to them once and for all that I can live on my own, and thus hopefully open some doors that'll get them to at least consider going to college the way it was meant to be attended.
TL;DR - I need tips on becoming more independent.
Godfather on
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What the problem really sounds like is that your parents can't stand the thought of their child leaving. Is this just your mom acting like this, or is it both parents? Either way, they don't seem very supportive which sucks.
The fact of the matter is that college is not cheap, and you can't realistically expect your parents to foot a giant bill just because. If they don't support your choice in schools and you're expecting them to pay, I don't see how you're anything less than hosed.
They're very skilled linguist, and make it seem like i'm the one who doesn't get it. I don't get it either; I mean, they were willing to shell out all that money for Full Sail (provided that I pay for some of it, which was fine), yet they can't compromise with a cheaper university (i.e. everything else)?
Again, I think it's because of the risk factor of my degree, where I apparently need to know exactly what I want to do in life now otherwise they won't go for it. Man, I didn't even start this whole art thing until mid-way through my junior year, and i'd consider myself one of the lucky ones who actually has some sort of direction in his life. Most people don't know what they want to become until midway through college, how the fuck am I supposed to deal with this?
Really frustrating.
EDIT: Missed reading celery's post.
Yeah, I was actually thinking about doing the moving-out thing (at least for awhile till the message gets across). I'm pretty sure that once I actually commit to that, all these privilages that I take for granted will be sorely missed, but hey, that's life I suppose.
I just don't understand why i'm the one getting all the beef college-wise compared to my older sis who decided to play it safe and go with a degree in business. She was a great photographer (got an assload of scholarships and everything), but rejected it because there wasn't any real money in it.
there's also a decent book that's free on-line that'll help you figure out shit, but the TL;DR version is just start.
http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/doit/
I stopped reading when I got to this part. Fuck anyone who would say that. This is your life, not theirs.
You are absolutely right about needing to get out on your own, especially if you are not ready for a lot of things. That's how I was, and there is no quicker way to learn than baptism by fire. When I first got out here to the city I had no house and no job lined up, but I absolutely knew I was going to attend school. So I ended up living out of my car for a month and a half while I set up school/looked for work/place to live.
Be uncomortable.
I'll say it again. Be uncomfortable. If you don't push yourself outside of your comfort zone, you'll never be prepared for "the real world" or anything else for that matter. Your parents sound like a poison to your development if they do not understand that, and for that along you need to break away from them.
You'll be surprised at what you find you are capable of doing when you have no other choice. For me, going back home was not a personal option, while I know my parents would gladly accpet me--even repeatedly prompted me to do so when I was still homeless--I had a goal of independence much like yourself, and was dead set on school and made it happen because I had no other choice.
You say you want independence? What stops you from picking a school and applying for it?
But in your case it looks like they're ready to pay, so if anything, it's prolly your major that they don't like.
How's your parent's income?
If it's not too high, go ahead and apply to the college of your choice and either move on campus or around the area, if their income isn't ridiculous, you'll most likely get aid or at least a subsidized the loan, which should be enough to cover your rent.
The tuition, if you choose a state college, you should be able to save up enough for it during the summer.
And as for the living expense, work part time during the semester, no more then 20 hours and budget yourself.
So now, you have rent covered, of course you'll have to pay it off later but at least you'll have a real job by then and hey, the government picks up the interest for you.
Tuition: no more then 2000 per semester, if you really save up all the $ you make and work full time or two jobs, you can save up easily for the first semester and a little bit, if not all, of the second semester, the rest you can make during winter break.
Living expense: Budget yourself so you're not spending more then $150 a week, this includes everything, food/entertainment. And with a part time job that's 20 hours and pays 10 an hour, you'll easily cover yourself for the week.
I disagree with this based on the fact that you cannot argue rationally with an irrational person. It is clear it doesn't matter how water tight his case is, they're going to be against it because the sky is blue, or because ice is chilly, or because they don't like the song on the radio at the moment.
I, on the other hand, think you should figure out what *you* want--ask yourself what you are really truly willing to do to get it--then make it happen without them.
Leave *that* in a note for'm.
The letter idea is definitely a bold move, something that I would never have thought of, but at this point i'm willing to try practically anything, so i'm going to have to really sit down and organize this between my art reading time today to help gather up my thoughts on what to say, as well as use the advice i've recieved here so far.
Big help everyone, I can tell i've got a lot of work ahead of me.
Are you an only child?
They want to keep you close, probably because they will miss you greatly. You shouldn't have to prove to them that you are independent, as you rightly say, no-one is when they start college. Is this the first time you and your parents have had any real friction? If you are on good terms with them, then I very much expect that they trust you and believe in you and love you.
I would sit them down, and tell them that you love them very much, that you will miss them greatly too, but it's something that you have to do. If they went to college, ask them how they felt (almost everyone is excited and scared in equal measure). Let them know you are excited to go on this adventure, and that you will be able to handle things as they come at you, and you will look to them for support (via telephone!) when you can't.
Nowhere is really too far away unless there are travel expenses involved, and you do come home for Christmas/Thanksgiving/Summer.
The issue of the degree not preparing you for a job isn't necessarily true. It won't net you easy bucks like a vocational degree might, but it will grow you as a stronger, more independent person, and on average, people with degrees of any type make more than people that don't.
To answer your question, no, i'm actually the second out of three siblings, which is why this is so confusing. They've dealt with this all before, so i'm a little concerned as to why it's really that big of an issue in the first place. I remember yesterday when I kept trying to make claims when I stated that I wanted to be independent that my mom threw a random "well if you want to be independent why don't you just pay for your auto insurance?"
My older sister drives a Lexus, and does not have to pay for her insurance, and yet I don't even own a car (I drive one, but it's the family car, not mine), so what makes me so special that I have to shell out cash for a car insurance for a car I technically don't even own?
On a side note, my mom didn't outright say that I didn't have any talent at all, she just said that I didn't have the talent to get into these colleges, and kept making it sound like it was too late for me on the whole art degree thing.
A friend of mine on conceptart.org stated that I could still apply for scholarships, despite the fact that i've already graduated high school a little over a month ago. Is this true, and if so, what are the requirements for landing one and where can I go?
It sounds like your parents aren't balking at college, but the idea that you would go somewhere for 4 years away from them. Fullsail is appealing to parents like that because you finish in, what, 6 months? A year?
Next time you bring it up, have a selection of schools that you REALLY want to go to. Evaluate the programs, and tell them that you're going to talk about it on X night, so they should read up on the schools or provide them with paperwork on the schools. Tell them that you ARE going to school, that you know what you want to go to school for, and you're trying to take it seriously. No, that you are taking it seriously. Then meet in a few days and talk about it, and if they say that something is too far away, tell them that you're going to move away anyway. If they say it costs too much, tell them you've already looked into student loans and scholarships in case they decide to not support you.
Make a point that you're 18, and that you're an adult now and that means you need to pursue your own life. Right now, that means college. Tell them that it COULD mean just developing a portfolio and moving to New York City, working as a waiter/busser while you try to get your foot in the door. Or it means moving to San Francisco and doing the same thing. You need to point out to them that your life may not lead to HomeTown, TX, and probably won't, and that you need to pursue what you feel is best while you're young, rather than just wasting it doing odd jobs around town.
My parents fought tooth and nail when I moved away after college. I stuck to my guns and said that it was just something I had to do. It helped that the impetus for moving was prompted by my girlfriend, but it was me who stuck with her and made the decision to start a life somewhere different. Parents never like that (at least, parents that actually like their kids).
edited to add: re: scholarships: There are high school scholarships that are usually low-fund, and then there are actual scholarships that are open to all college students in certain programs. These are either field-based or college-based, so you would have to either pick a specific field or a specific school. But they're regularly awarded throughout the year.
First step to getting into college. You will need your taxes and your parent's taxes. Fill it out the absolute best you can. You can send it to any school you might be interested in attending. Then you need to begin applying to whatever you school you want to attend.
The only thing is that a parent must sign the fafsa too. You can't exactly do this without them and fraud is never a solution. I get the feeling you kind of want to get the ball rolling without them knowing and from what you've said I don't blame you.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Maybe I haven't been looking hard enough?
I'd say think of it less as something that offers everything you want. Like, ordering at a chinese restaurant. It may say "chicken & broccoli" but you know there's more going on than just those 2 ingredients. You need to figure out what actually goes into the different "meals." Animation can mean purely CGI creation, or drafting ideas for coders, or graphic design elements, etc. Similarly, illustration can range from purely art classes to architecture.
Don't be afraid to break out the telephone or email -- if you email a professor in a department directly, you're actually quite likely to get a response back if you ask serious questions and ask them to explain more about their program, beyond what the course books say.
Your parents, by the sounds of it aren't going to budge. FAFSA it up and good luck.
Satans..... hints.....
People tend not to apply to art scholarships very much. They just assume that it'll already be filled, or that they don't meet the requirements (or some other inane thing.) so they just don't apply.
This means that that instead of getting, say 50 people for the scholarship as was intended, they only get about 20. Always always apply for scholarships. Apply for a bunch all at once, and then pick the best one you can get.
Also, have you watched the movie Art School Confidential? From what I'm told, actual art schools are a lot like this. For example, one 20 something year old art student did a bucket on a ceiling, a bucket on the floor, and a blue string running between them. That was it.
He was getting paid somewhere around forty thousand dollars for it, and it was going to be put in a museum of art. Craziness.
Going it alone sucks. It would be nice for you parents to let you go off to college but be there, via phone or email, to lend you advise when tough shit heads your way. Ultimately though, if you want it bad enough there are ways to go it alone, it will cost you alot in time and money and personal life, you will have to work more than what is recomended (the college i attend recomends no more than 20 hrs) and you might end up living in subpar housing (just look at the guy who lived out of his car for a while), but as long as you keep your drive and focus you will succeed.
GL and i hope all you hopes come true, and i hope your parents come around. It is a shame they are not behind you no matter what degree you choose.
World of Warcraft IS a drug, if you are playing it seek rehab immediately.
The only problem is that the "big ones" typically do get people applying for them, which can be demoralizing if one only applies for big ones. Similarly, it's more work applying for small ones every year, even if it's more of a sure thing. But yes, absolutely, apply aply apply. The only thing I regret about my undergrad career is not applying for more scholarships.
I think that if I can get a handfull of scholarships and to chip down the tuition of a school that (hopefully) I can get accepted at, they might offer to help me out. I honestly think they're just concerned that they have to do everything for me, and while that's total bullshit, if I can prove to them that I can stand on my own regarding school, they'll be willing to back me up. Hopefully.
I have some more questions, but i'll have to post them later, i'm a bit late.
Check out my art! Buy some prints!
Not many choices outside of Austin (which is redicuously expensive to live there).
I'm going to The School of Visual arts this fall in NYC, and it's an amazing school. All the teachers have worked, or still DO work in the field, and ...well...you're in NYC...where all the jobs are.
Check out my art! Buy some prints!
Looked at fastweb, and i've found a few easy scholarships to apply for. Just pick and choose I suppose.
EDIT: That's just the thing that's the main issue; getting them to let me travel has proven to be the achilles hill above all else. Maybe it's because my older sis goes to Baylor here in Texas, but it's really proven to be a kicker, and it's hard to shift their rock-solid movement.
I'm sure it's also rediculously hard to get into that school in NYC, and i'd need to present skills that I just don't have yet just to get my foot in the door, but hey, if you can make it in New York, you can make it anywhere. If they're still accepting applications, I guess there's no harm in me trying it out, but I won't be expecting much on the terms of actually getting in there.
All I'm saying, is the artists I've met have understood hard times, and its not too hard to find some who have been miss understood and want to help out their creative peers. If you could get to a school, and go meet some advisers face to face they may be able to help you out on many more aspects than just applying. There may be student groups who band together. MICA will be flexible for us, as long as we know who to talk to.
as for Illustration/Animation, If animation is where your heart is at, do it. The benefit of illustration classes are great, but the truth is you can pursue the same skill building exercises and animation at the same time. If you eventually want moving pictures, you have a slightly different goal than an illustrator. I've been hitting myself over this too, hopefully I'm not going to change my mind.
Can you do that?
After a long-winded debate, I got them to seriously consider sending me off to Austin Community College WITH my own apartment/dorm/whatever. Turns out they would rather see me start off small and leave the house than have me suffer through the gigantic hellhole that student loans are. This is great news, especially considering that ACC actually has a pretty good animation program (one of the animators from Lilo and Stitch teaches a course there).
I feel like I really accomplished the impossible here, and ten tons of worry has just slid right off my shoulder.
EDIT: this also doesn't rule out me transfering to a bigger, better school later on down the road, so big plus on that.
I would suggest you go to community college in the area, build a GPA and get some general education credits, while at the same time... move away from your parents enough that you don't rely on them for anything anymore.
Out of State tuition is going to be difficult, so you MAY even want to go someplace you can get in and live there a year to get residency. Yeah, it fucks with the timetables... but it could save you thousands of dollars a year.
Edit: Wooo, congrats. I hope by "set you up" doesn't mean you wont be financially responsible for yourself... you're going to need to develop a sense of budget and stuff, and if your parents bail you out or support you too heavily that wont ever happen.
Edit2: I think you may want to minor in programming or something... a lot of bigtime animation is making your own shaders and stuff for things, at least that's what the people who I know who went into that field say. Knowing how to write code is something they both ended out having to learn, and they both wish they had done it in school instead of trying to catch up once they got out.
If they're willing to pay for full sail, then I'd go, are you really just having issues with them presently? Or are you still debating your decision to go to full sail? If you're still looking at better local schools to go to SMU (albeit expensive) has a huge and fantastic Animation program (some of it is specifically for Game Design, which is why I was interested). UT is ridiculous-- their art program is okay, but do you really want to go there and get lost in a sea of fellow animation students? Look around for some of the smaller schools, not that Texas has anything great ( I didn't apply to any schools in Texas, and I wasn't allowed to apply to art schools).
There are some schools in the Northeast that have some good Art programs that you should consider, and there's also some art schools, if you're allowed to go. PM me if you want to talk more, I know a lot about most of them because I did a lot of research when I was applying
-Rochester Institute of Technology (they have great labs)
-Kansas City Art Institute
-Savannah College of Art & Design
-Pratt (it's in Brooklyn)
-Washington University in St. Louis (I don't know about animation but their art dept is great)
I have tons more, a lot of these schools gave decent scholarships out without me even applying for them, and it was 1/4 of my tuition per year, if you check out fastweb, as recommended earlier you can probably get a good 3/4 of your college stuff paid. Banks like Bank of America give pretty good student loans, and if you're working on the side then I'm sure you can stave off most of the debt.
Moving out is the hardest thing, I only have a few grand in the bank and although I have two solid jobs--it's really just scary as shit to move out. If you're in Houston you can get some really cheap apartments out west on towards Katy...not to mention the area is booming.
Why start out at a community college when you're slated to do such great things, you need to express to your parents the aspirations you have--maybe if they see that you truly have the drive to do this...they will concede and get to a decent and agreeable compromise.
EDIT: Whoops, I missed the last post by the OP, well anyways, I'm happy for you and HEY you're in Houston, if you ever want to bitch about your parents, feel free.