I bought the book last night..along with a booster pack of minis because I am a shameless, shameless whore.
I thought Champions of the Force meant like all Jedi. Instead I got Yoda and a shit ton of stormtroopers. Two of which were Republic Commandos, so that was sweet.
Minis aside, the book looks..um...well laid out. I've read the races section so far (as this is my first Star Wars rpg book; I have been wanting to try it for some time and the new edition seemed like a good excuse), and while the information included was handy and succinct, it really didn't paint much of a picture for each race. They didn't even mention that Gungans live in underwater cities on Naboo (I guess if you've seen Ep1, that's self explanatory, but there are people who haven't), or discuss in any detail at all what the hell an honor family is to a wookie. Just lacks the meat I'm used to from some of my other rpg systems.
As an aside, are previous Star Wars d20 modules and sourcebooks compatible (or come close to it) with Sagas?
Old source material should be very compatible, I use D20 stuff for alien races, background info and such. Plus Wookieepedia. You have to do some conversions but it's not all that bad, and I believe there are some semi-official (they just haven't been posted officially yet) conversion rules.
Most of the errors are "duh" to people familiar with SW and D20 in general, but I can see how it might be confusing as hell for newer players. The omission of details like you mentioned is good and bad for a core rulebook, for me I prefer to have the new system laid out as simply as possible and extra tidbits would just be clutter to me.
Use your old modules, just tweak them to reflect the new skill checks and such.
Any good resources out there for converting vehicles to the Saga format? I'm looking for a wider variety. Things like the Z-95 Headhunter, Imperial Shuttle, etc. Miscellaneous ships from the Rise of the Empire era.
Any good resources out there for converting vehicles to the Saga format? I'm looking for a wider variety. Things like the Z-95 Headhunter, Imperial Shuttle, etc. Miscellaneous ships from the Rise of the Empire era.
That's incredibly handy!
I'm going to start running a game in the next few weeks, and I have a bunch of short, free modules that are from the earlier editions, so this is great.
Any good resources out there for converting vehicles to the Saga format? I'm looking for a wider variety. Things like the Z-95 Headhunter, Imperial Shuttle, etc. Miscellaneous ships from the Rise of the Empire era.
There's a guy over on the Holonet forums that has converted all the main ships from the movies already. His name is Ronin and he's posted them in threads by movie. They look pretty good from what I've seen and might save you some time versus converting them yourself. Here's a link to the Episode 6 thread.
There is truth here. I've never found a game that is easier to run with just one book. Everything but the player's guide is 99% useless, the rest? Force Powers and stats for movie characters. You can get the book online (or even better, a really good nerd gamestore/comicbook shop) for a good price. Using the system to make up new rules is simple, the second game I ever ran was a post apoc. Earth game. Just change the blasters around a bit. The vehicle combat is a bit strange but doable. The only thing it has problems with is scaling up the size of the battle, but let's be honest, no P&P games have really great rules for large scale combat, they have seperate games for that!
You can get the WEG stuff on eBay pretty easy. The Second ed core book shows up a lot, with second ed revised showing up more rarely. I've only seen first ed a handful of times. They can all be gotten for reasonable prices, but first ed is at a small markup most of the time.
I'm running my first Saga session tonight with my wife and one of our friends. Despite the fact that I'm not entirely up to speed on the rules yet, I'm not nervous at all. The way everything works seems a lot more simple and streamlined than D&D, which was always a source of frustration for me, and why I was largely unsuccessful as a DM (I was told I was fairly good, but I certainly didn't feel that way).
I'll probably maek poast after the session about how it went.
Well, I ran a game of Saga Ed. tonight, and it seemed to go pretty well; my wife said it's more fun to her than D&D (her only other RPG experience thus far), and my other player said it was pretty fun even though he wasn't as into it as my wife or myself.
I ran an older edition module designed for first level characters called Damsel in Distress, which features a pretty even mix of ship combat and on-foot combat, and was really fast paced, and, I felt, a good first adventure. The crew basically was to enter an asteroid field undetected by a Star Destroyer being distracted by an Alliance force, home in on a weak tracking signal for the damaged Corellian Corvette, The Stellar Damsel, rescue the crew (and more importantly, some very sensitive Imperial information that was valuable to the Alliance that the captain was protecting), fight off some spacetroopers who had tracked them down, and escape the collapsing asteroid they had landed in. It was all very reminiscent of the scene in Empire where the Falcon hid inside the space slug, minus the space slug.
I fudged things a little bit on space combat, as it was a little more complicated than either I or my players had yet done. Things like allowing two TIEs on their tail to attack as one with an arbitrary +2 bonus to attack rather than both individually getting +2s on their attack rolls, as I didn't want them to be shot down within the first 20 minutes of play.
Also, as they were escaping, with the Star Destroyer bearing down on them and a squad of 6 TIEs on their ass, I rolled 5 2's and a 1 on their DC 20 piloting checks to outmaneuver the asteroids in the field. Every one of them hit each other or an asteroid in the first round of that encounter, and THEN my wife's character absolutely nailed the DC 15 astrogation check with a 26, cutting the amount of turns it took her to calculate a safe hyperspace jump from 5 to none.
All in all it was pretty fun, one of my most fun GM'ing experiences since I ran a ConX campaign 2 years ago.
For those interested, WotC just released a packet for the new Saga edition RPGA campaign. I've never done RPGA stuff before, I think I may just check it out and see if there are any events near me.
I ran a few Living Force sessions once. I'll never do it again. Those were some of the worst modules I've ever seen. They were even worse than some of those $3 brochure-sized knock-off adventures some shops carry.
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
RESURRECTION
Because now I'm making a Saga edition character.
What's the benefit of a single-weapon-wielding character with Dual / Triple strike over a dual-wielding character with the dual-wield feats? I can't really do the math very well, but it looks like...
Dual/Triple Attack = 2 feats for 3 attacks (-10/-10/-10)
Dual Wield III = 3 feats for 2 attacks (-0/-0).
They don't seem... even to me. Dual Wield looks just a whole lot better?
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
With double attack and triple attack, you can use a weapon with two hands and double your strength bonus on melee attacks. It's also worth pointing out that the penalty on double attack is -5, and triple attack is -10
With dual weapons, you just get your regular strength bonus on each melee attack, and it's -5 with one feat as well.
If you're a high dex character, the Jedi Knight talents Multiattack Proficiency and Ataru lightsaber mastery can enhance your attack and damage when double or triple attacking with a single lightsaber.
With dual lightsabers you can boost your reflex save if you are into the Lightsaber Defense talents and build up to Jar'Kai mastery.
The main advantage of Dual Weapon talents, I think, is the fact that it works for any weapons with which you are proficient, and you can also take the feats sooner because their base attack requirements are low. However, if you are Jedi and you use your lightsaber basically all the time, multiattack feats are pretty dang sweet.
Double attack is completely worth it... Triple attack might be debatable, because the penalty is pretty high without trimming it down with talents.
Also, if you can swallow the penalty, you can Rapid Strike with any attack... which means you can do it while using Double Attack, Triple Attack, or with either attack from your dual attack.
And Whirlwind Attack is pretty sweet too... so long as you don't have anyone friendly in reach.
I played the first RPGA SW:SE mod at PAX. It wasn't bad, though it kind of just threw you into the action without any real motivation. Lots of railroading, an annoying NPC, and too much combat, so pretty much standard RPGA fare.
Though I and the people I played with all made droid characters, and two of us munchkined out to the max. I was a medium 5th degree droid with a strength of 22 and a vibroaxe which I could use one handed with two handed strength bonuses (that's 2d10+12), and he was a small 4th degree droid with a dex of 22 and dual-wielded blaster rifles. Reinforced tool arms are gross. Oh, and one of our other droids took the Tech Specialist feat and raised my strength and his dex by two each permanently. Fun, fun, fun. :P
Also, while grenades and thermal detonators are not available, power generators are. Be sure to read the item description. It's how we took care of the combat encounter that, according to the GM, "TPK'ed three parties". No one questions why the astromech droid is towing an operating power generator. :twisted:
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EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
I am enjoying reading the Jedi Counseling articles on the Wizards boards, because the answer to every question pretty much is "No, just because you don't have the feat doesn't mean you can't roleplay doing that."
I really like the Starship Maneuvers rules. They are basically like force powers that anyone with the Starship Tactics feat can use. (1+Wis bonus) The only problem I have in my game is that if my PC's arn't doing a lot of starship or vechicle combat I would hate for one of them to waste a feat on it. I am so torn on to use them in my game or not.
It's pretty. It's nice to enjoy reading an rpg book again... dnd books were just so damned uninteresting for me. I like the layout, art, and even the funky little size in the new SW:SE books.
I was just reading through the errata. It looks like going non-lethal is a lot easier than it first seemed (I know this is totally late, but still of interest to me):
p. 120 – Weapon Qualities
The entry for Stun Damage should read as follows:
"If the weapon has a stun setting, it is listed here. A weapon set to stun does stun damage equal to its normal damage (see Stunning, page 162, for more information). Ranged weapons set to stun have a maximum range of 6 squares unless noted otherwise."
p. 122-123 – Table 8-3: Melee Weapons
All damage entries in the "Stun" column of the table should be replaced with the word "Yes" except the stun baton, which should say "Yes (2d6)."
p. 126-127 – Table 8-4: Ranged Weapons
All damage entries in the "Stun" column of the table should be replaced with the word "Yes" except for the stun grenade, which should say, "Only."
Stun grenades should have a damage listing of 4d6.
The listings for the sporting blaster pistol, the sporting blaster rifle, and the bowcaster should be given a superscript of 4, denoting accurate weapons.
The listings for the hold-out blaster, heavy blaster pistol, blaster carbine, blaster cannon, heavy blaster rifle, thermal detonator, net, and grenade launcher should be given a superscript of 5, denoting inaccurate weapons.
Add the following footnotes at the bottom of the table:
4 Accurate weapon: This weapon takes no penalty when firing at targets at short range.
5 Inaccurate weapon: This weapon cannot fire at targets at long range.
So I just bought the book and I'm reading over it here and there. In the Reprogramming Droids section, there's a mention of a droid self-programing himself. In order to do this, the droid must know the relevent feat or be trained in the skill.
But isn't the point of reprogramming to learn new feats and skills? Whats the point if he has to know it already?
With double attack and triple attack, you can use a weapon with two hands and double your strength bonus on melee attacks. It's also worth pointing out that the penalty on double attack is -5, and triple attack is -10
With dual weapons, you just get your regular strength bonus on each melee attack, and it's -5 with one feat as well.
If you're a high dex character, the Jedi Knight talents Multiattack Proficiency and Ataru lightsaber mastery can enhance your attack and damage when double or triple attacking with a single lightsaber.
With dual lightsabers you can boost your reflex save if you are into the Lightsaber Defense talents and build up to Jar'Kai mastery.
The main advantage of Dual Weapon talents, I think, is the fact that it works for any weapons with which you are proficient, and you can also take the feats sooner because their base attack requirements are low. However, if you are Jedi and you use your lightsaber basically all the time, multiattack feats are pretty dang sweet.
Double attack is completely worth it... Triple attack might be debatable, because the penalty is pretty high without trimming it down with talents.
Also Dual Weapon Mastery feats and the Double/Triple Attack feats and can be used together. Which in turn can lead up to a lot of attacks, but the off set is you'll need to be pretty high up in level to have all of them, depending on your class/s.
I think it works out that Triple attack gives you three attacks, and Dual wield only gives you one extra attack regardless of Double/Triple attack. IIRC the maximum number of attacks a round ends up being 4. And they wouldn't be that great of attacks.
Also since starting to play the game have any of you noticed that the battles end up moving a lot. I have seen battles that will start in one location and will move to the point were the battle map has to be redrawn a couple times. I really like that aspect.
Posts
I thought Champions of the Force meant like all Jedi. Instead I got Yoda and a shit ton of stormtroopers. Two of which were Republic Commandos, so that was sweet.
Minis aside, the book looks..um...well laid out. I've read the races section so far (as this is my first Star Wars rpg book; I have been wanting to try it for some time and the new edition seemed like a good excuse), and while the information included was handy and succinct, it really didn't paint much of a picture for each race. They didn't even mention that Gungans live in underwater cities on Naboo (I guess if you've seen Ep1, that's self explanatory, but there are people who haven't), or discuss in any detail at all what the hell an honor family is to a wookie. Just lacks the meat I'm used to from some of my other rpg systems.
As an aside, are previous Star Wars d20 modules and sourcebooks compatible (or come close to it) with Sagas?
Most of the errors are "duh" to people familiar with SW and D20 in general, but I can see how it might be confusing as hell for newer players. The omission of details like you mentioned is good and bad for a core rulebook, for me I prefer to have the new system laid out as simply as possible and extra tidbits would just be clutter to me.
Use your old modules, just tweak them to reflect the new skill checks and such.
Many of the "whoops, haha, where did that go?" errata pieces come from the Lucasfilms editing department, not WotC's.
Part of the pitfalls of having TWO separate groups of hoops to jump through for publication.
Link
That's incredibly handy!
I'm going to start running a game in the next few weeks, and I have a bunch of short, free modules that are from the earlier editions, so this is great.
There's a guy over on the Holonet forums that has converted all the main ships from the movies already. His name is Ronin and he's posted them in threads by movie. They look pretty good from what I've seen and might save you some time versus converting them yourself. Here's a link to the Episode 6 thread.
http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?threadid=257950
There is truth here. I've never found a game that is easier to run with just one book. Everything but the player's guide is 99% useless, the rest? Force Powers and stats for movie characters. You can get the book online (or even better, a really good nerd gamestore/comicbook shop) for a good price. Using the system to make up new rules is simple, the second game I ever ran was a post apoc. Earth game. Just change the blasters around a bit. The vehicle combat is a bit strange but doable. The only thing it has problems with is scaling up the size of the battle, but let's be honest, no P&P games have really great rules for large scale combat, they have seperate games for that!
I'll probably maek poast after the session about how it went.
I ran an older edition module designed for first level characters called Damsel in Distress, which features a pretty even mix of ship combat and on-foot combat, and was really fast paced, and, I felt, a good first adventure. The crew basically was to enter an asteroid field undetected by a Star Destroyer being distracted by an Alliance force, home in on a weak tracking signal for the damaged Corellian Corvette, The Stellar Damsel, rescue the crew (and more importantly, some very sensitive Imperial information that was valuable to the Alliance that the captain was protecting), fight off some spacetroopers who had tracked them down, and escape the collapsing asteroid they had landed in. It was all very reminiscent of the scene in Empire where the Falcon hid inside the space slug, minus the space slug.
I fudged things a little bit on space combat, as it was a little more complicated than either I or my players had yet done. Things like allowing two TIEs on their tail to attack as one with an arbitrary +2 bonus to attack rather than both individually getting +2s on their attack rolls, as I didn't want them to be shot down within the first 20 minutes of play.
Also, as they were escaping, with the Star Destroyer bearing down on them and a squad of 6 TIEs on their ass, I rolled 5 2's and a 1 on their DC 20 piloting checks to outmaneuver the asteroids in the field. Every one of them hit each other or an asteroid in the first round of that encounter, and THEN my wife's character absolutely nailed the DC 15 astrogation check with a 26, cutting the amount of turns it took her to calculate a safe hyperspace jump from 5 to none.
All in all it was pretty fun, one of my most fun GM'ing experiences since I ran a ConX campaign 2 years ago.
Because now I'm making a Saga edition character.
What's the benefit of a single-weapon-wielding character with Dual / Triple strike over a dual-wielding character with the dual-wield feats? I can't really do the math very well, but it looks like...
Dual/Triple Attack = 2 feats for 3 attacks (-10/-10/-10)
Dual Wield III = 3 feats for 2 attacks (-0/-0).
They don't seem... even to me. Dual Wield looks just a whole lot better?
Which means less than it should, to be honest.
With dual weapons, you just get your regular strength bonus on each melee attack, and it's -5 with one feat as well.
If you're a high dex character, the Jedi Knight talents Multiattack Proficiency and Ataru lightsaber mastery can enhance your attack and damage when double or triple attacking with a single lightsaber.
With dual lightsabers you can boost your reflex save if you are into the Lightsaber Defense talents and build up to Jar'Kai mastery.
The main advantage of Dual Weapon talents, I think, is the fact that it works for any weapons with which you are proficient, and you can also take the feats sooner because their base attack requirements are low. However, if you are Jedi and you use your lightsaber basically all the time, multiattack feats are pretty dang sweet.
Double attack is completely worth it... Triple attack might be debatable, because the penalty is pretty high without trimming it down with talents.
And Whirlwind Attack is pretty sweet too... so long as you don't have anyone friendly in reach.
Though I and the people I played with all made droid characters, and two of us munchkined out to the max. I was a medium 5th degree droid with a strength of 22 and a vibroaxe which I could use one handed with two handed strength bonuses (that's 2d10+12), and he was a small 4th degree droid with a dex of 22 and dual-wielded blaster rifles. Reinforced tool arms are gross. Oh, and one of our other droids took the Tech Specialist feat and raised my strength and his dex by two each permanently. Fun, fun, fun. :P
Also, while grenades and thermal detonators are not available, power generators are. Be sure to read the item description. It's how we took care of the combat encounter that, according to the GM, "TPK'ed three parties". No one questions why the astromech droid is towing an operating power generator. :twisted:
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
:P
sounds nice! with any luck mine is at home waiting for me. in reality i probably won't get it till the 21st or something ;/
EDIT: Just found it in the er... table of contents. Anyway, good to see you all again.
I love it.
Deckplans are more important to me than starship stats.
YT-1300, Lambda Class Shuttle, Sith Infiltrator, Ghtroc Freighter, and the Dynamic Freighter (the Ebon Hawk was one of these).
oh well
will probably still pick it up
I particularly like the "junker".
the OP hasn't posted since July
ps i love saga.
This is a pretty good resource I've stumbled onto.
But isn't the point of reprogramming to learn new feats and skills? Whats the point if he has to know it already?
Maybe I'm just missing something.
Ayliana Moonwhisper Ecksus Cerazal
Also Dual Weapon Mastery feats and the Double/Triple Attack feats and can be used together. Which in turn can lead up to a lot of attacks, but the off set is you'll need to be pretty high up in level to have all of them, depending on your class/s.
Also since starting to play the game have any of you noticed that the battles end up moving a lot. I have seen battles that will start in one location and will move to the point were the battle map has to be redrawn a couple times. I really like that aspect.
Player 1: I hit player 2.
Player 2: I hit player 1.
At least some of the Stock Ships stuff is in that website.