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[WoW] Warriors: L2Tank Here
khain
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Tanking
8/5/48 Main Tank Build
This build is intended to pretty much main tank raids only. It optimized both mitigation and threat generation, but is missing Imp TC so another warrior in the raid needs to have it. If you want Imp TC then take points out of Bloodrage, Taunt, Shieldwall, or Shield Mastery something like this.
Explanation of some talents that aren't really essential:
Imp Bloodrage - 6 rage every minute and helps at the beginning of the fight for a slight boost in rage
Imp Sunder - Overall you really shouldn't be using that many sunders in a fight as devastate is more threat, helpful on trash and a few bosses though
Imp Taunt - A few bosses are taunt able so it helps for those, also good for heroic instances, but isn't really necessary
Imp Shieldwall - Helps for enrages or any other spike damage as well as giving healers more time to regen
Shield Mastery - Mostly taken for the increase in damage for Shield Slam, its a slight TPS boost (between 5-15 TPS)
Imp Defensive Stance - Only really useful on bosses that do only elemental damage such as Hydross so if you don't plan on tanking them then its not all that useful
Imp Heroic Strike - I'm confused why several people advocate dropping this talent as a reduction on HS rage cost lets you use it more equating to more TPS. Rage isn't a huge issue, but I find that without this talent you will be using HS less.
0/43/18 OT/Fury DPS Build
Switch points around to suit your preferences, but its a basic off tank build that can dps as well. You can basically do the exact same thing with a arms build if that suits your style better.
Best Tanking Guide Ever
This guide pretty much contains everything you ever wanted to know about tanking from mitigation to threat.
High Threat Rotation
SS -> Revenege -> Devastate(Sunder) -> Devastate(Sunder)
Add HS whenever you have excess rage and use Sunder instead of Devastate if 5 sunders aren't up.
PvE DPS
17/44/0 Fury DPS
Basic DW Fury build.
33/28 Arms/Fury Build
Not much to say except that 2 points in Blood Frenzy is most likely more dps for your raid than 2 points in Flurry.
On both builds Imp Demo versus Unbridled Wrath depends on your guild. If the locks put up CoW then you don't need it, if they don't then some one that isn't tanking needs to take it and use it.
PvP
35/23/3 Arms/Fury PvP
All the essential talents to PvP with.
31/30/0 Arms/Fury PvP
Like the above build but takes Flurry over Blood Frenzy, Second Wind and Tactical Mastery. Can be used as both a PvP and a PvE build and probably better if you don't switch stances a ton and don't use Spell Reflect.
Leveling
1-39 Fury
At 40 Fury or Arms
From there on if your arms I'd get Cruelty and advance down the Fury Tree as the 35 point and 41 point talent in the Arms tree are terrible. If your Fury keep going down the Fury Tree. If you want to do DW I've never tried it for leveling, but I've been told that pre-Outlands it isn't to great due to the absence of any +hit on gear, once you get to Outlands it works fine.
--If anyone wants to add anything to this just post as I've only leveled a warrior once.
8/5/48 Main Tank Build
This build is intended to pretty much main tank raids only. It optimized both mitigation and threat generation, but is missing Imp TC so another warrior in the raid needs to have it. If you want Imp TC then take points out of Bloodrage, Taunt, Shieldwall, or Shield Mastery something like this.
Explanation of some talents that aren't really essential:
Imp Bloodrage - 6 rage every minute and helps at the beginning of the fight for a slight boost in rage
Imp Sunder - Overall you really shouldn't be using that many sunders in a fight as devastate is more threat, helpful on trash and a few bosses though
Imp Taunt - A few bosses are taunt able so it helps for those, also good for heroic instances, but isn't really necessary
Imp Shieldwall - Helps for enrages or any other spike damage as well as giving healers more time to regen
Shield Mastery - Mostly taken for the increase in damage for Shield Slam, its a slight TPS boost (between 5-15 TPS)
Imp Defensive Stance - Only really useful on bosses that do only elemental damage such as Hydross so if you don't plan on tanking them then its not all that useful
Imp Heroic Strike - I'm confused why several people advocate dropping this talent as a reduction on HS rage cost lets you use it more equating to more TPS. Rage isn't a huge issue, but I find that without this talent you will be using HS less.
0/43/18 OT/Fury DPS Build
Switch points around to suit your preferences, but its a basic off tank build that can dps as well. You can basically do the exact same thing with a arms build if that suits your style better.
Best Tanking Guide Ever
This guide pretty much contains everything you ever wanted to know about tanking from mitigation to threat.
High Threat Rotation
SS -> Revenege -> Devastate(Sunder) -> Devastate(Sunder)
Add HS whenever you have excess rage and use Sunder instead of Devastate if 5 sunders aren't up.
PvE DPS
17/44/0 Fury DPS
Basic DW Fury build.
33/28 Arms/Fury Build
Not much to say except that 2 points in Blood Frenzy is most likely more dps for your raid than 2 points in Flurry.
On both builds Imp Demo versus Unbridled Wrath depends on your guild. If the locks put up CoW then you don't need it, if they don't then some one that isn't tanking needs to take it and use it.
PvP
35/23/3 Arms/Fury PvP
All the essential talents to PvP with.
31/30/0 Arms/Fury PvP
Like the above build but takes Flurry over Blood Frenzy, Second Wind and Tactical Mastery. Can be used as both a PvP and a PvE build and probably better if you don't switch stances a ton and don't use Spell Reflect.
Leveling
1-39 Fury
At 40 Fury or Arms
From there on if your arms I'd get Cruelty and advance down the Fury Tree as the 35 point and 41 point talent in the Arms tree are terrible. If your Fury keep going down the Fury Tree. If you want to do DW I've never tried it for leveling, but I've been told that pre-Outlands it isn't to great due to the absence of any +hit on gear, once you get to Outlands it works fine.
--If anyone wants to add anything to this just post as I've only leveled a warrior once.
khain on
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This discussion has been closed.
Posts
I dont build to 5 sunders before devastating anymore?
Why wasn't I told!
- If you tank, you bring the imp TC. Period. You don't pay for others subscriptions and it's a 100% worthless talent outside of tanking.
- Shield Mastery is a bad talent, and theres certainly no reason to put 3 points in something to gain an amazing 3-5 threat per second and less then .05% mitigation.
- Anticipation is useless with endgame BLUES, forget better gear.
/facepalm
- OT specs are 100% Un-necessary. You wear plate? That's enough mitigation. Can't gen enough threat? Kill the real tank's mob first!
- Revenge is on a 5 second cooldown and should not be part of a skill cycle which revolves around a 6 second cooldown. You will generate more threat keeping revenge on cooldown than waiting that extra 1 second for SS to get off CD only to extend the refire on your Revenge by over 1/2 of it's cooldown.
/facepalm
- Impale is a TERRRRRRRRIBLE talent for DW. It only works with yellow attacks which make up ~40% of your DPS (including Execute spam) of which your crit rate is factored in (lets say like 28%) and you only gain 20% damage. Way to waste a shit load of points for 2% increased damage. Pro tip: Imp Rend gives you more damage increase then Impale (provided you use rend in DPS rotations, which actually isn't a bad idea if you have Wind Fury and spam Hamstring when other shit is on CD).
- DW build without Imp Zerker!?
I'm over it.
Yes, I'm an asshole.
Not only are you an asshole by your own admission, you're also wrong on many of your points.
MT specs:
Khain's OP is pretty focussed on 25 man content, by his own admission improved TC is needed for a tanking spec if you are primarily doing smaller group content. If you are the MT in 25 man content then being able to pool talent points so that you gain mitigation from somebody else's build is the kind of commitment and attention to detail that makes raiding work at the high end.
As to shield mastery and anticipation, your job as the MT is to make a spec with the maximum possible TPS and mitigation, in order to criticise points in these talents you will need to provide an alternative, superior build.
OT specs:
I'm not 100% certain that the OT need a different spec to the MT, but Khain provides some ideas as to how this may work. You on the other hand seem to think that just having plate is enough, sorry if I don't buy that. Do you really expect to have DPS focussed warrior step up and OT and be able to generate the TPS and have the mitigation of a prot specced warrior? Your admonition to kill the MTs target first is not always possible, it depends on the fight.
Your points about revenge vs shield slam are just pure garbage. with HS and shield block not on global CD its easy enough to fit devastate revenge and SS into a cycle (3 GCDs < the smallest CD )
Fury:
Again different worlds, improved berserker is pointless in high end raiding fury specs, you're not rage limited there but threat limited. If you've got a grinding fury build, then yes, you should have improved berserker rage. The impale debate is interesting but your approach to it is bad, show us an alternative that does better DPS, from my own experience, I doubt you can.
In summary: No
If your in a raiding guild there really isn't a point in having more than one tank, who I would assume is consistent, to have Imp TC. I don't see how how its difficult to coordinate specs with other people in your guild so that you have the greatest chance of success. Sure not every talent in the Protection Tree is amazing and you could easily drop something to get it, but if some one else has it then there is absolutely no point in doing so.
Shield Mastery might as well be taken if you have the points as it increases threat generation.
If you have 490 defense you are crit immune, however that doesn't make defense worthless. Each point of Defense still gives you 0.04 chance to be miss, dodge, block, or parry and since you really don't have anything else to put points into you might as well gain .8% miss, dodge, block, or parry.
The first point is pretty much entirely dependent on your guild and how many druids you bring. sometimes a OT spec is useful just like a feral druid is useful.
This isn't true as in the rotation I gave you don't wait to fire off a SS and you'd need to wait .5 seconds, assuming you have zero lag, to use Revenege. Basically you have a choice of waiting or using SS and since SS generates higher threat you use it.
Imp Rend isn't usable if you have pretty much any amount of Shadow Priests and Warlocks asthey already take all the debuff slots (this assumes you keep Deep Wounds so if you drop that). I don't normally play Fury, but from what I've heard if you have even decent gear then your not going to be rage limited anyway so there's no point in taking a talent that gives you more rage. If you want to post a better build feel free. One thing I forgot is that Anger Management is essentially the same as Imp Berserker Rage unless you plan on taking both.
First read the thread, second if you actually want Imp TC then take points out of Bloodrage, Taunt, or Shieldwall.
Theres a few encounters where it's really useful. Anything where damage stacks up over time and you're in a DPS race.
The two obvious ones to me are pre HoT stacking Maexxna (pop it just before the one enraged web) and pre-nerf Gruul.
I had Imp. Shield Wall for a while, since 5 extra seconds of Shiedl Wall seemed like a pretty good thing. Ultimately, I moved to points into Imp. Shield Bash, since I use that a helluva lot more often. Don't get me wrong: 5 more seconds of Shield Wall IS nice, but I don't think it's worth 2 points.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
Imp Shield wall is a funny talent. It's a narrow use to a long CD ability, but there are some instances where that talent, and only that talent, can save you.
You also have Imp Shieldbash, Imp Disarm, Imp Revenge, and tactical Mastery to choose form, but I don't find that any of these are that helpful compared to the 4 I listed.
Of course, I'm no warrior, so I can't speak first hand. I get the luxury of scalable threat and a range shield slam (but with double the threat). Paladin tanks are haxx.
I haven't actually tested Devastate, but my understandings is that the ability is 0,5 * ( Weapon Damage + Attack Power / 14 * Normalized Weapon Speed ) + 25 * #(Sunder Armor) + 101 innate threat. Sunder does 301 innate threat and assuming these are correct then with a 5stack on the target Devastate will almost always out threat sunder as getting 200 damage isn't that hard. It is less efficient, however ordinarily I'd say that threat/sec is more important than threat/rage. There is an assumption that you have Imp sunder for it to be more efficient.
Some opinions from me.
Shield spec is an incredible talent. To say its useless is rediculous. It adds ALOT of threat gen for one when you start getting geared. I have two sets, one for shield block and one for stam/dodge. I use the shield block alot during trash and certain bosses. The better my gear gets however, the more often I am finding this block set to be much better. Use common sense. You block about 75% of attacks that land on you. Majority of the time, this is EVERY attack that lands on you. So, increased block value = less damage taken. Its the equivalent of more armor. It decreases overall damage and makes it alot easier on healers. My value is up around 500 now and its definately noticeable.
As for imp TC, I personally go a 17/0/44 spec. I like impale for tanking. Call me a nub, but crit shield slams, revenges, and devestates/HS get a hefty threat bonus from this. Also, deep wounds is very underrated for its dps. Which also equals TPS. So, imp TC is right there, and thus I take it. And I am sorry, but for 13 rage the threat generated is almost awesome for a SINGLE target. And imp HS should be mandetory, as on heavy hitting bosses you can spam the ever loving shit out of HS. And it combined with impale is a nice nice threat boost.
Devestate, I think, sucks. Its only use is to generate threat when you have Revenge and SS on CD, and do some damage while doing it (instead of using sunder). Unfortunately with sunder being able to be dropped to 9 rage, its actually less efficient. But, sometimes you dont need efficiency I guess.
And that OTing junk. Personally, I beleve you NEED imp shield block to be able to tank anything after normal 5 mans. And well, last stand and defiance are right there anyway. Personally, I go 0/31/30. People have given me shit for this spec, but I see nothing but success from it. MAthematically, the only loss is about half of Rampage and Deep wounds if you go pure dps spec. Imp 1h is > imp berz stance. You gain ALL the benefits of imp berz, plus you gain 10% of your weapons dps, which in most cases makes up for about half of rampage. You lose the 3 hit, but thats replaceable by gear. Deep wounds, surprisingly, adds about 30 dps minimum when a mob isnt bleed immune, and impale adds almost nothing to dps as fury. So, statistically its not a major loss. Of course, if you went deep arms you lose a weapon spec then. Which is a huge loss. But, the good thing is this spec is almost perfectly viable OTing. No shield slam = sucks but you still have a moderate amount of threat gen, and lose a little damage reduction. This spec has kept me up with most DPS warriors and has tanked shit fine even MTing on occasion.
I'm talking 1 to 70, what to look for in gear, race, and obviously most importantly: tactics and talents.
I had a human warrior that was dual-wield/fury/burst DPS specced to 55 about a year and a half ago. I switched to a tanking prot. heavy spec from 55 to 60 and almost deleted him it was so painful. So I'm pretty familiar with how rage/stances/aggro and threat work, grouping, etc. I'd appreciate any tips or information on a more soloing or duoing type of setup.
TYIA and
I'm not saying they use Sunder over devastate. Sunder is used when you can, from my understanding they're mostly using HS and Revenge with Shield Slam thrown in every time its up. Eventually they sunder, but only when everything else is on CD.
The problem they have with devastate is that it's so heavily dependent on Weapon Damage, and it would be really great and handy if they tanked with slow as shit one handers, but they don't want to gimp their heroic strikes by going to a slow weapon. 1.6 seconds is win.
opinions itt.
Same, except with less past leveling of a Warrior. I was thinking of leveling Arms, because whenever I think of a Warrior I don't think of him as duel wielding (If that's even a viable excuse not to go Fury) As far as races go I'm pretty interested in Orcs, what with their extra stun resist and all.
XBL
Yeah, I'm kinda wondering what race to go Horde side. I'm 99% convinced Orc, but damn if I dont wish Blood Elves could be warriors. Appearance plays a big factor for me.
OTOH, so does PvP at the end levels. And for that, mmm, Undead racial. Though stun resist is also sweet.
I've also got the same question/attitude... I did Fury and it was good for leveling, but I wondered if Arms wouldnt be just as... and only upgrading 1 weapon every 3-4 levels seems kinda nice.
For race I'd go either Orc for stun resist or Tauren for more HP and warstomp. Undead I just don't feel is worth it, assuming your PvPing you have Deathwish and Berserker Rage for fear breaks and stun resist or a interrupt is probably better. For Orc vs Tauren I'd say its dependent on your play style.
For leveling specs if some one wants to post some I'll put them in the post, but I only leveled a warrior once and kind of half assed it.
Care to elaborate why?
Thanks, and I think I'll give the Orc a try. Though I had forgotten that Tauren's get an interrupt... they just look so bad in most of the armor I've seen shots of.
And yes, please do post leveling specs. I have not started the warrior yet, but I've been gathering green gear for the first 40 levels for a month now.
At this point I would recomend respeccing arms in the near future.
As in, "I am not sure what I will do after the Ice-Barbed Spear runs its course".
As it is that character is on a back burner while my wife and I level up a different pair of characters. (My Draenei Priest and her Druid.)
The Blood Elf Bandit mask that can be found on Azure Myst, I have used the dressing room to check that out on a Tauren. Unless something has changed, it is just a white blob.
Got the mask. I was all prepared to start farming mobs when my hunter was lower level, until I found out that it's like one damn mob, that's stealthed, along the roads.
It's ridiculous.
Theres actually 5 or 6 of them. Really easy to find with that hunter detect humanoid thing. Even without not hard to blunder into.
But damn they just don't drop.
That crafted helm that looks like the blue coloured Lawbringer helm looks bad
So back to my shame I went from being an arms warrior to being a protection warrior
When I hit 70 I might go back to being dps
Tanks only use heroic strike as an aggro dump when they just have to drop aggro from big hits. The threat it generates is minimal compared to anything else you could be using your global cooldown on.
Also, improved shield wall is important for fights like Doom Lord Kazzak where the MT shield walling through the entire enrage can make a huge difference in downing him, requiring less heals from the paladins.
So yeah Heroic Strike doesn't use the GCD, it also is a significant amount of agro at around 300-400 threat, sunder does 301 for comparison, and as such having a reduction of 3 rage is a pretty significant increase in efficiency which can be turned into more heroic strikes. Also Kazzak's enrage only lasts around 12 or less last time I checked and its not really necessary to have shield wall up for the full duration, as in having 2 seconds of no shield wall won't kill you.
The point is that whenever you will have enough rage so that you would actually need to use heroic strike to dump aggro because Devestate/Revenge/Shield Slam are on cooldown, you will be getting so much rage anyways that a few extra points won't make a difference.
You already will be generating so much threat that putting up mitigation is more important than getting a little extra rage efficiency.
Sure, a tank can be good at holding aggro, but equally important is spamming your shield block and keeping up T-Clap and Demo Shout.
Also, Imp. Shield wall is a mediocre talent, but is the best among a whole lot of mediocre talents.