that seems worthless against plate and even mail armor.
The value of armor penetration is constant except in the case of nearly-naked players (who have less armor than you have penetration) or overgeared bear druids (who have more armor above the damage reduction cap than you have penetration).
Anywhere between 840 and 31,672 armor, though, and it's of equal use.
Actually, I think armor reduction is one of those stats that gets better the more of it you pile on (kind of like Resilience in PvP). Last I checked, the math nerds at EJ are saying this will be better than Mongoose for Warrior tanks, and I think they were in the middle of discussing whether it was better than mongoose for DPS warriors, too.
So I've been trying to tank instances with no points in prot at all and I have come to a conclusion:
It is possible but your threat generation is so low that your other party members have to slow down to let you keep aggro so its worthless. OT spec (mine being pure Fury/Prot) is a little better with this but not by much as the best Threat generation seems to come from Shield Slam which is too far into prot for you to get. However I am curious about the next patch and the whole Blood Thirst creating a high amount of threat if you take Tactical Mastery(if thats still planned) Has anyone played on the PTR yet and knows if this is any good?
So my guild is raiding SSC and TK and I have really noticed my viability wavering. There are fights like void reaver and A'lar where I need to off tank but after those few bosses I feel like I am hurting the raid, being the off-offtank (third warrior tank in the group). So today, since those bosses were down I specced into arms and came up 6th in dps after weeks of being dead weight.
My question is: is there a spec anyone knows of where I can still tank on voidreaver, alar and soon fathom lord but still switch to DPS on fights like solarian, tidewalker or lurker? Is this even possible? or will i just be mediocre at DPS and poor at generating aggro.
I mean yeah, they're a godsend for warriors in general, but I was pulling down 3.2k AP and a ~35% crit chance in Kara just now [we also have a baretank].
When we go to Kara, we often have two healadins with us. Salv. and kings...Mmmm. Or if you feel spry, Kings and Might.
That with Druid Tank and Enhance Shammy...
Awesome or SO Awesome?
Though, druids tanking, warriors and Shammies DPSing. It's like the multicultural super-friends.
Edit: I'd charitably describe my own interactions with pallies during raids as incessant bitching. I want Salv. and I want Kings! Stop putting Light on me!
A shaman with Windfury is the only thing raidlead has not yet granted to me, or the melee group in general. A pity, as it would apparently benefit me something great (but having switched from a guild with maybe 1 paladin in a 25man run to a guild with three, my DPS is going through the roof...I fear to think what I would do with Windfury).
So now I've got decent-ish gear for fury (123 hit is meh, but getting better) I feel I can call myself a fury warrior.
Is the change to sweeping strikes/Deathwish still going ahead?
If so this makes me sad
Yeah, the location swap is pretty sad, but Sweeping Strikes can be a nice damage boost on multiple target pulls if you have a tank capable of holding them all. Deathwish is certainly better for DPS when it counts (Recklessness Deathwish Execute Spam FTW), but it does have its uses.
Why the hell it's going to be required for bloodthirst (AFAIK) is beyond me. Deathwish and bloodthirst made sense being linked, as they're both crazy fury warrior things to do.... Sweeping strikes, though?
Yeah, the location swap is pretty sad, but Sweeping Strikes can be a nice damage boost on multiple target pulls if you have a tank capable of holding them all. Deathwish is certainly better for DPS when it counts (Recklessness Deathwish Execute Spam FTW), but it does have its uses.
Why the hell it's going to be required for bloodthirst (AFAIK) is beyond me. Deathwish and bloodthirst made sense being linked, as they're both crazy fury warrior things to do.... Sweeping strikes, though?
In fairness, going nuts and just swinging wildly to hit lots of things at once is kind of berserk [olol] too.
EDIT: But yeah, no more DW + Recklessness + AP/Haste trinket Execute spam will kinda suck. I wouldn't have believed it, but my overall DPS and damage-done for a boss fight go up substantially just from Execute spam.
Yeah, the location swap is pretty sad, but Sweeping Strikes can be a nice damage boost on multiple target pulls if you have a tank capable of holding them all. Deathwish is certainly better for DPS when it counts (Recklessness Deathwish Execute Spam FTW), but it does have its uses.
Why the hell it's going to be required for bloodthirst (AFAIK) is beyond me. Deathwish and bloodthirst made sense being linked, as they're both crazy fury warrior things to do.... Sweeping strikes, though?
In fairness, going nuts and just swinging wildly to hit lots of things at once is kind of berserk [olol] too.
EDIT: But yeah, no more DW + Recklessness + AP/Haste trinket Execute spam will kinda suck. I wouldn't have believed it, but my overall DPS and damage-done for a boss fight go up substantially just from Execute spam.
33/38 ftw. Ran with a WF totem tonight in an alt kara run and goddamn it, without WF I can blow my cooldowns when I want and run my DPS rotation, rage allowing, but with WF totem? no deal. I was constantly threatcapped and at 100 rage. I mean, I like to deal damage as much as anyone, but without Salvation I was twiddling my thumbs half of the time.
I don't see how anyone could really have a slower OH than their MH. Tried it for a bit in Kara tonight, and my rage starvation [which seems to be pretty bad -- I have to wait a while after BT is back off cooldown to build enough rage to use it again] problems only got worse.
Maybe I don't have enough crit, because I know my hit is fairly good. AP's not the best either, though.
I don't see how anyone could really have a slower OH than their MH. Tried it for a bit in Kara tonight, and my rage starvation [which seems to be pretty bad -- I have to wait a while after BT is back off cooldown to build enough rage to use it again] problems only got worse.
Maybe I don't have enough crit, because I know my hit is fairly good. AP's not the best either, though.
Windfury? (Tick relevant box below)
[] YES
[] NO
If YES, you may suck.
If NO, your buffs sucked.
Also enchant your shit and get better (rare) gems.
A) The Enhancement shaman I can usually drag to our Kara lays down Grace of Air over WF.
This is an alt, so I haven't sunk into him nearly as much time and moneyz as my main. Not yet, anyway.
C) I may or may not have crit a Victory Rush for 2.9k in a vanilla Sethekk Halls just now, with Might + food buff + Battle Shout + Ferocious Inspiration.
A) Feral druid tank + sometimes an OT MS warrior + Enhancement shaman + Furry [me] + warlock [for the stam aura]. Usually.
kk
A) Hard to say which totem would be better there.. I assume you've read all the relevant warrior DPS threads on EJ.
it depends, if the druid is tanking GoA is better (kinda), if he is not, WF beats GoA by such a huge margain its not even funny anymore. From what i have read from the shaman threads on EJ, general consensus is "WF if it is even remotely possible a warrior might be in your group in the near or far future, if he isn't already"
Unless the druid is having real mitigation issues, in Kara, I'd say always go with windfury over GoA. If you have a 2hander using warrior, windfury adds so much damage it's ridiculous, like 200-300 dps.
So I've been trying to tank instances with no points in prot at all and I have come to a conclusion:
It is possible but your threat generation is so low that your other party members have to slow down to let you keep aggro so its worthless. OT spec (mine being pure Fury/Prot) is a little better with this but not by much as the best Threat generation seems to come from Shield Slam which is too far into prot for you to get. However I am curious about the next patch and the whole Blood Thirst creating a high amount of threat if you take Tactical Mastery(if thats still planned) Has anyone played on the PTR yet and knows if this is any good?
Your threat generation sucks. Jt has tanked off-spec, and while dps has to slow down, it's not by a crippling amount. In a five-man the presence of a paladin will obviously make a fair difference.
I won't embarrass my own fellow guildmate, but I will say that his conclusion is "horseshit". It's obviously more annoying/shitty tanking with an off-spec than a Prot spec, but far from "worthless". Now, 2.3 will help this out a bit, but no pure Fury or Arms warrior is taking Tactical Mastery, so that's basically for off-tank specs (which is nice).
We had a non-prot specced Warrior tank Heroic Mechanar last night (less than amazing gear) with zero issues. I think he died once.
You have to understand that being prot specced does almost nothing for survivability save for last stand and things like improved shield block (for crushing immunity) and 10% extra armour, which only come into play at raiding levels. It's usually a matter of threat output.
That said, I can usually put out 5-600TPS in T4 tanking gear as fury given normal amounts of rage for heroic mech. This is around the level where good players with threat resets aren't going to have many issues while DPS with salv who are too stupid to watch their threat have trouble putting out that kind've TPS anyway. Imp thunderclap is all you need to tank a heroic, and it's easily obtainable in any spec.
But I still wouldn't want to tank a pug heroic as anything but full prot.
Now that the patch [read: fear change] has dropped, I might just respec Prot one weekend and go whore up An Heroic or two... but pretty much just Heroic Sethekk, for the shoulders, because Netherspite is a bitch, and because fuck trying to tank that place with the old fear mechanics.
Now that the patch [read: fear change] has dropped, I might just respec Prot one weekend and go whore up An Heroic or two... but pretty much just Heroic Sethekk, for the shoulders, because Netherspite is a bitch, and because fuck trying to tank that place with the old fear mechanics.
Deathwish spec dual fearbreak ftw. Also you can interrupt the fear if you have either a) a warlock or are b) on the ball.
Now that the patch [read: fear change] has dropped, I might just respec Prot one weekend and go whore up An Heroic or two... but pretty much just Heroic Sethekk, for the shoulders, because Netherspite is a bitch, and because fuck trying to tank that place with the old fear mechanics.
Deathwish spec dual fearbreak ftw. Also you can interrupt the fear if you have either a) a warlock or are b) on the ball.
I've had too many casts go through even after I Pummeled either due to latency or my own misjudgement that I don't really trust myself to stop anything <1.5.
I don't like doing it much as a warlock, and that's pie to be honest. However it is necessary, and if I'm going to play a warrior, I need to know.
Do most of you have a hunter or something to farm with?
As a DW fury warrior I had little trouble farming melee mobs, or limited numbers of casters. I mean, with full fury spec the damage is pretty insane. DW fury warrior damage is seriously amazing, but you only really get to abuse it when you're soloing, as it also generates equally amazing threat.
having improved cleave helps, as fighting 2-3 guys and slicing them to nothing in a few seconds (after you get all your self buffs going) becomes a pretty easy pattern to get into.
There's just the whole health thing, and how you're completely fucked if you don't have a good supply of food and/or bandages to avoid dying too much.
I'm having disagreements with our MT about something he appears to have started doing recently.
On raid bosses that don't hit hard (Currently I've seen it on Void Reaver and early grows on Gruul), he doesn't block, instead willingly taking the crushings in order to get some rage up. While that might be a viable tactic in late-game gear, he's currently in a full Kara tank set, and I think it's causing unnecessary stress on the healers even though the numbers involved are quite low. He, on the other hand, builds threat well presumably due to the extra rage, so I see his point, but I'm worried that it's unnecessarily gimping us.
Am I right - Is avoiding crushings so utterly sacrosanct that you need a damn good reason not to use it, and 'I don't have enough rage' really isn't one - or is he, in that the healers should be fine with keeping him up and the extra rage is too useful to discount?
Depends on how bad his rage issues are. A tank with constant rage starvation but good avoidance/mitigation is worth less then a tank with enough rage to maintain full thret generation who gets a bit more damage in.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
I'm having disagreements with our MT about something he appears to have started doing recently.
On raid bosses that don't hit hard (Currently I've seen it on Void Reaver and early grows on Gruul), he doesn't block, instead willingly taking the crushings in order to get some rage up. While that might be a viable tactic in late-game gear, he's currently in a full Kara tank set, and I think it's causing unnecessary stress on the healers even though the numbers involved are quite low. He, on the other hand, builds threat well presumably due to the extra rage, so I see his point, but I'm worried that it's unnecessarily gimping us.
Am I right - Is avoiding crushings so utterly sacrosanct that you need a damn good reason not to use it, and 'I don't have enough rage' really isn't one - or is he, in that the healers should be fine with keeping him up and the extra rage is too useful to discount?
It all comes down to:
Is it getting him killed?
And is it causing healers to go OOM before the end of the fight?
With VR, your limiting factor is almost always the tanks threat cap.
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Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33307
Umm ignoring 840 Armor, will that stack with Sunder or Expose?
The value of armor penetration is constant except in the case of nearly-naked players (who have less armor than you have penetration) or overgeared bear druids (who have more armor above the damage reduction cap than you have penetration).
Anywhere between 840 and 31,672 armor, though, and it's of equal use.
It is possible but your threat generation is so low that your other party members have to slow down to let you keep aggro so its worthless. OT spec (mine being pure Fury/Prot) is a little better with this but not by much as the best Threat generation seems to come from Shield Slam which is too far into prot for you to get. However I am curious about the next patch and the whole Blood Thirst creating a high amount of threat if you take Tactical Mastery(if thats still planned) Has anyone played on the PTR yet and knows if this is any good?
My question is: is there a spec anyone knows of where I can still tank on voidreaver, alar and soon fathom lord but still switch to DPS on fights like solarian, tidewalker or lurker? Is this even possible? or will i just be mediocre at DPS and poor at generating aggro.
I have fooled around for a bit and came up with this fury/prot spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LVZVVuzxxoVuVocizoh but i'm not really sure about it.
Enhancement shaman + Furry warrior = lulz
I mean yeah, they're a godsend for warriors in general, but I was pulling down 3.2k AP and a ~35% crit chance in Kara just now [we also have a baretank].
When we go to Kara, we often have two healadins with us. Salv. and kings...Mmmm. Or if you feel spry, Kings and Might.
That with Druid Tank and Enhance Shammy...
Awesome or SO Awesome?
Though, druids tanking, warriors and Shammies DPSing. It's like the multicultural super-friends.
Edit: I'd charitably describe my own interactions with pallies during raids as incessant bitching. I want Salv. and I want Kings! Stop putting Light on me!
Is the change to sweeping strikes/Deathwish still going ahead?
If so this makes me sad
Why the hell it's going to be required for bloodthirst (AFAIK) is beyond me. Deathwish and bloodthirst made sense being linked, as they're both crazy fury warrior things to do.... Sweeping strikes, though?
PvPing is painful ~_~
In fairness, going nuts and just swinging wildly to hit lots of things at once is kind of berserk [olol] too.
EDIT: But yeah, no more DW + Recklessness + AP/Haste trinket Execute spam will kinda suck. I wouldn't have believed it, but my overall DPS and damage-done for a boss fight go up substantially just from Execute spam.
Only bad thing is if you're tempting aggro, you will get aggro.
B.net: Kusanku
33/38 ftw. Ran with a WF totem tonight in an alt kara run and goddamn it, without WF I can blow my cooldowns when I want and run my DPS rotation, rage allowing, but with WF totem? no deal. I was constantly threatcapped and at 100 rage. I mean, I like to deal damage as much as anyone, but without Salvation I was twiddling my thumbs half of the time.
Maybe I don't have enough crit, because I know my hit is fairly good. AP's not the best either, though.
fatty.
Having the MT stay connected for the duration of the fight may have helped a little.
Windfury? (Tick relevant box below)
[] YES
[] NO
If YES, you may suck.
If NO, your buffs sucked.
Also enchant your shit and get better (rare) gems.
C) I may or may not have crit a Victory Rush for 2.9k in a vanilla Sethekk Halls just now, with Might + food buff + Battle Shout + Ferocious Inspiration.
A) What is you melee group composed of?
A) Feral druid tank + sometimes an OT MS warrior + Enhancement shaman + Furry [me] + warlock [for the stam aura]. Usually.
A) Hard to say which totem would be better there.. I assume you've read all the relevant warrior DPS threads on EJ.
it depends, if the druid is tanking GoA is better (kinda), if he is not, WF beats GoA by such a huge margain its not even funny anymore. From what i have read from the shaman threads on EJ, general consensus is "WF if it is even remotely possible a warrior might be in your group in the near or far future, if he isn't already"
I won't embarrass my own fellow guildmate, but I will say that his conclusion is "horseshit". It's obviously more annoying/shitty tanking with an off-spec than a Prot spec, but far from "worthless". Now, 2.3 will help this out a bit, but no pure Fury or Arms warrior is taking Tactical Mastery, so that's basically for off-tank specs (which is nice).
You have to understand that being prot specced does almost nothing for survivability save for last stand and things like improved shield block (for crushing immunity) and 10% extra armour, which only come into play at raiding levels. It's usually a matter of threat output.
That said, I can usually put out 5-600TPS in T4 tanking gear as fury given normal amounts of rage for heroic mech. This is around the level where good players with threat resets aren't going to have many issues while DPS with salv who are too stupid to watch their threat have trouble putting out that kind've TPS anyway. Imp thunderclap is all you need to tank a heroic, and it's easily obtainable in any spec.
But I still wouldn't want to tank a pug heroic as anything but full prot.
Too bad fury sucks at pvp, or I'd be all over it.
Deathwish spec dual fearbreak ftw. Also you can interrupt the fear if you have either a) a warlock or are b) on the ball.
I've had too many casts go through even after I Pummeled either due to latency or my own misjudgement that I don't really trust myself to stop anything <1.5.
As a DW fury warrior I had little trouble farming melee mobs, or limited numbers of casters. I mean, with full fury spec the damage is pretty insane. DW fury warrior damage is seriously amazing, but you only really get to abuse it when you're soloing, as it also generates equally amazing threat.
having improved cleave helps, as fighting 2-3 guys and slicing them to nothing in a few seconds (after you get all your self buffs going) becomes a pretty easy pattern to get into.
There's just the whole health thing, and how you're completely fucked if you don't have a good supply of food and/or bandages to avoid dying too much.
On raid bosses that don't hit hard (Currently I've seen it on Void Reaver and early grows on Gruul), he doesn't block, instead willingly taking the crushings in order to get some rage up. While that might be a viable tactic in late-game gear, he's currently in a full Kara tank set, and I think it's causing unnecessary stress on the healers even though the numbers involved are quite low. He, on the other hand, builds threat well presumably due to the extra rage, so I see his point, but I'm worried that it's unnecessarily gimping us.
Am I right - Is avoiding crushings so utterly sacrosanct that you need a damn good reason not to use it, and 'I don't have enough rage' really isn't one - or is he, in that the healers should be fine with keeping him up and the extra rage is too useful to discount?
It all comes down to:
Is it getting him killed?
And is it causing healers to go OOM before the end of the fight?
With VR, your limiting factor is almost always the tanks threat cap.