So, for prot warriors, what is the ruling on Executioner? I've tried reading the thread over at EJ, but mostly it's been bogged down with pages of procs per minute math bullshit and I lost interest pretty quickly.
Pointless.
Stick to Mongoose since it's an avoidance boost. As the tank, you are benefitting the least from armor reduction effects on the mob since your main aggro generation attacks are mostly fixed threat with a little extra from actual damage. The haste effect from Mongoose would probably give a better TPS increase as well since it equates to more HS if you've got spare rage or simply more rage from more auto attacks if you are starved.
if you are desperate to have some points in prot for leveling, putting about 15 points in the tree is all you need
defiance makes offspec tanking a lot easier, as does imp shield block, and last stand is a pretty decent overall talent too
Yeah 14 points of Protection let me tank every non-Heroic Outlands instance on my warrior with the rest of the points in Fury (did some as Fury/Arms as well). Personally I found Toughness more useful that Improved Shield Block for non-Heroic stuff, but it's mostly personal preference (unless you want to just put 20 points in and take both, but its makes the Fury talents a little more strained). Last Stand and Toughness are pretty awesome talents for leveling as well, so its not a complete loss for questing. Protection tanking is naturally much easier on both your group and your sanity (especially when PuGing) but I just found playing as Protection incredibly boring after enjoying Fury for so long.
This is all pre-2.3 though, I haven't played my warrior since the patch, so its possible the new Tactical Mastery may make it easier.
The new +expertise on Defiance is pretty swell. It's only in Prot stance right now, but they're making it active for all stances. It's +6 which = 1.50% less chance to be dodge/parried which is nice.
Eh, eh? I think I should have 25k honor by tomorrow. Maybe..
Rizzi on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2007
Imp shield block doesn't really make a difference if you have enough CC. Unless the guy you are tanking just hits really fast.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Lack of Imp. Shield Block will make offtanking any level 73 mob extremely painful; I think Romulo + Julianne are 73.
Definitely looking forward to getting some of the S1 gear for my Furry warrior, as most of it is upgrades for slots that I don't have any hit in [wrists, boots, belt]. The added stam and minor resilience don't hurt, obviously. I'm most interested in the S1 weapons, though -- planning to go from an Emerald Ripper in the OH to a sexy Gladiator's Quickblade, for a hit + crit + DPS + swing speed upgrade.
defiance and last stand are no brainers, I'd probably take imp shield block if not only to save the healers in instances, who are almost always non-healing spec
Lack of Imp. Shield Block will make offtanking any level 73 mob extremely painful; I think Romulo + Julianne are 73.
not really. The offtank always gets the weaker mob, Julianne for example only melees every seconds in between two casts. Moroes melees you all of 5 seconds per minute, Midnight attacks very slow etc. Its definitivly not "extremely painful", more like "mildly annoying".
Lack of Imp. Shield Block will make offtanking any level 73 mob extremely painful; I think Romulo + Julianne are 73.
not really. The offtank always gets the weaker mob, Julianne for example only melees every seconds in between two casts. Moroes melees you all of 5 seconds per minute, Midnight attacks very slow etc. Its definitivly not "extremely painful", more like "mildly annoying".
That's fair -- I'm probably blowing it out of proportion. The only times I ever off-tanked in Kara, I was full Prot, just because I like overkill.
We usually had our non-Prot offtank on Romulo, though, since we typically killed Julianne first. Even I was having Crushings sneak through on that guy, with Imp. Shield Block and ~500 defense. With no Dispel/Purge, he just hits so fucking fast. I remember said offtank going down a lot in the early days of our Kara.
Hamurabi on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I've never OT'd anything as a pure Prot spec (including 4th add in Mag's Lair) because after your job is done, you're kind of useless.
Imp. Shield Block is actually pretty un-necessary if you have good gear (490 def and over 12k HP before talents) and you'll get more practical mitigation overall from the armor talent from personal experience.
With the exception of Lynx and Bear bosses in ZA, which you can get away using a Feral Druid on, most bosses that require more than 1 tank are pretty friendly for off-specs. Netherspite doesn't crush, Gruul doesn't crush the OT, and most other things you need to OT hit for reasonable amounts.
I've never OT'd anything as a pure Prot spec (including 4th add in Mag's Lair) because after your job is done, you're kind of useless.
Assuming you can't somehow get out of combat, you're really not doing anywhere near as much damage as you would normally by just swapping weapons. Admittedly, it's more damage than if you just stayed with the sword-n'-board, but I just wanted to clarify that the second you enter combat with your tanking set on, you're severely gimped for anything but tanking, no matter the spec.
Hamurabi on
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kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
edited November 2007
this is why I love the gladiator gear
you can offtank the vast majority of stuff in raid content
then you can swap to a twohander and wreak some havoc
Not as much as any sacrificial-dps geared class, but you can add something (and 4% more physical damage)
you can offtank the vast majority of stuff in raid content
then you can swap to a twohander and wreak some havoc
Not as much as any sacrificial-dps geared class, but you can add something (and 4% more physical damage)
I loaded up my Paladin the other day to help out a RL friend with the Ring of Blood. I tanked the whole thing in my Merciless healing set, thanks to the new spell power.
Those 4k non-crit shocks do hurt with only 11k health though....
you can offtank the vast majority of stuff in raid content
then you can swap to a twohander and wreak some havoc
Not as much as any sacrificial-dps geared class, but you can add something (and 4% more physical damage)
I loaded up my Paladin the other day to help out a RL friend with the Ring of Blood. I tanked the whole thing in my Merciless healing set, thanks to the new spell power.
Those 4k non-crit shocks do hurt with only 11k health though....
mm i love spell reflect on my warrior for this fight, allowed me to hold threat on him over an epic'd Rogue and Lock
Well, I'm on the PvP kick now that S3 / Cheapo-Depot S1 gear is out, along with everyone else on Dark Iron, but I can't decide whether I wanna pee-vee-pee on my hunter or warrior.
EDIT: I sure hope that was a glitch, because I saw this as a triple-post...
I haven't had any luck wading knee deep in the official forum shit and like usual I'm too damn lazy to browse through 30 pages of discussion and debates here.
Anyway, I'm leveling up my warrior and I have no intentions of being anything other than prot at 70 (and 80). I'll only really be doing instances and not raiding but that's fine by me. I'm not leveling this guy for dps or anything, I have plenty of other toons that are straight up dps for that.
Well, that sounds all well and nice but here's the problem. I need to be able to solo too. The current plan I have is to instance the shit out of 60-70 and be level 70 before I finish quests in Terokkar so that I have all of Nagrand/BEM/Netherstorm/SMV for mad cash. The problem here is: I don't want to solo full-on prot.
So what I need help with is a good hybrid, ideally prot/fury (since I'm leveling fury), build that will allow me to competently tank 5 mans (not really heroics, by the time I get to heroics I should be done soloing and be able to go full on prot) and still be able to solo grind out quests in a non-mind numbing fashion. If anything a slight focus on the dps aspect would be fine since non-heroic 5 man's don't require a heavy focus on mitigation and threat, everything dies quickly. This is obviously debatable but it's what I'm going with. :P
Whatever build I get for this only needs to 5 man and quest grind. I won't be pvping/raiding/arenaing with this toon at all so I don't need to have catch-alls for those.
I would suggest just leveling Fury or Arms until 70, or at the very least, 60. You can still tank shit fine with zero points in Prot pre-heroics, and you probably won't find many instances before 60 to tank anyways.
oh no, i wouldn't go to the hybrid build until 60 at the earliest anyway. But since I plan on doing as much of my 60-70 as possible inside instances I figured it couldn't hurt.
When I was still leveling my warrior (who got boring, argh), I just specced arms. There's a fair amount of tanking utility there, and you get to do some damage. Also, once you get into the 60s and actually need imp. shield block and stuff, you can put the last 10 or 15 points into prot and turn yourself into a viable 5 man tank.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Yah at 60 I respecced to 15 points in protection and found it useful to a degree, but at 65 I grew frustrated with my build and switched to a 44 points in protection build and remembered how much I enjoyed slamming things with a shield. (When I played AC2 I played a Defender, which was a Human Melee Tank/Healer that could kick very much ass. Slamming the mobs with my shield, and throwing my shield at the mobs were two things they could do.)
I didn't quest much between 60 and 70, mostly solo grinding and some instancing.
Well I decided to dust off my old Tauren Warrior (because I'm too lazy to level up one in say...Sargeras "I luv you") and well, man what awesome memory trip. Gauntlegs, Bracers and Belt of Heroism! And an Unstopable Force! Now, thanks to a lot of patches I have points in...Improved Intercept? Anyway, I'm already on my way to 62 and was about to respec Fury when the Hellreaver dropped...
Should I stay Arms? Should I go Fury in hope that I can get nice greens from quest rewards in Outland?
You can't really properly gear fury until level 70 blues, so arms is likely the way to go if you enjoy arms.
I really only enjoy Fury, so I leveled that all the way up, and it wasn't bad, but I was partnered with a healer for most of it, which can make any warrior spec not too bad.
Fury is better for leveling, 2 weapons Whirlwind + Sweeping Strikes owns all, your rage gen is much better than arms too. Also, Enrage, Flurry and a large AP boost.
So what I need help with is a good hybrid, ideally prot/fury (since I'm leveling fury), build that will allow me to competently tank 5 mans (not really heroics, by the time I get to heroics I should be done soloing and be able to go full on prot) and still be able to solo grind out quests in a non-mind numbing fashion.
From Prot I'd recommend
3 TM, 2 Anticipation - A flexible combination, increased threat from Bloodthirst and some protection
5 Toughness - Helps tanking and reduces downtime while grinding
3 Defiance, 3 Improved Revenge, 1 Last Stand - Increased threat, stuns which actually work and an emergency button
My warrior is 36. I've been levelling Fury (using Whirlwind Axe) and have been just running around in Battle Stance using Slam mostly, for the past two levels. Now I just learned Whirlwind. Do I keep up with the Slamming? Should I be grinding in Berzerker Stance? Should I use Whirlwind at all? It seems way too expensive to be grinding with.
My warrior is 36. I've been levelling Fury (using Whirlwind Axe) and have been just running around in Battle Stance using Slam mostly, for the past two levels. Now I just learned Whirlwind. Do I keep up with the Slamming? Should I be grinding in Berzerker Stance? Should I use Whirlwind at all? It seems way too expensive to be grinding with.
Help omg
Too expensive, rage wise? Pull more mobs. 3-4 mobs at a time w/ sweeping strikes whirlwind/cleave spam. You're going to want to start DWing soon, too, when Whirlwind Axe gets out of date.
edit: also don't forget zerker rage for more rage when being hit.
God, I remember how happy I was when they finally gave warriors SOME tactical mastery for free. It's rather insane that it took them till TBC Beta. Sorry that it took them so long, but hey whatever.
I remember, way back, one of the blue posters was on the forums, defending their decision not to change TM from all point based to at least partially built into the class. I forget the exact wording, but it was a mage/ warrior comparison. Something along the lines of...
"We understand that it feels inconvinent to devote several points into this in order to achieve a certai nlevel of competance. However, the same argument could be applied to mages, and the points needed to make arcane explosion instant-cast. Sure, we COULD make it free, but we have no intention of changing that at this time."
Then, a year and some patches later.
"Hey Druids, innervate is free now, and here's an awesome replacement talent if you're currently rejuv. Oh, hey, mages. Here's free instant arcane explosion. Warriors, fuck off."
I was pissed, to say the least. But it's in the past now.
Goatmon on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2007
Don't forget about iceblock too!
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Someone told me you have to be Prot specced to tank Mid 60 instances. This seems to carry an air of untruth about it, but I am ignorant on the matter. Care to share your thoughts?
No, you don't need the protection tree until 70, and even then you don't technically need it till like Heroics. Actually, even then, with the right gear, you can still tank heroics non-prot. We had a guildie do it with no problems a few weeks ago.
It can be done non-Prot, no problem, but you lose the luxury of your DPS just having to wait for 3-4 Sunders and being able to cut loose on a mob -- in my experience, as long as they watch the KTM to make sure they're not shooting up at ludicrous speeds, the mob will be dead by the time they get close to pulling.
depends on the heroic - I wouldn't want to tank Old Hilsbrad as non prot. But other then that, tanking (in 5mans at least) is all about knowing what the fuck to do.
Posts
Pointless.
Stick to Mongoose since it's an avoidance boost. As the tank, you are benefitting the least from armor reduction effects on the mob since your main aggro generation attacks are mostly fixed threat with a little extra from actual damage. The haste effect from Mongoose would probably give a better TPS increase as well since it equates to more HS if you've got spare rage or simply more rage from more auto attacks if you are starved.
defiance makes offspec tanking a lot easier, as does imp shield block, and last stand is a pretty decent overall talent too
Yeah 14 points of Protection let me tank every non-Heroic Outlands instance on my warrior with the rest of the points in Fury (did some as Fury/Arms as well). Personally I found Toughness more useful that Improved Shield Block for non-Heroic stuff, but it's mostly personal preference (unless you want to just put 20 points in and take both, but its makes the Fury talents a little more strained). Last Stand and Toughness are pretty awesome talents for leveling as well, so its not a complete loss for questing. Protection tanking is naturally much easier on both your group and your sanity (especially when PuGing) but I just found playing as Protection incredibly boring after enjoying Fury for so long.
This is all pre-2.3 though, I haven't played my warrior since the patch, so its possible the new Tactical Mastery may make it easier.
Eh, eh? I think I should have 25k honor by tomorrow. Maybe..
Definitely looking forward to getting some of the S1 gear for my Furry warrior, as most of it is upgrades for slots that I don't have any hit in [wrists, boots, belt]. The added stam and minor resilience don't hurt, obviously. I'm most interested in the S1 weapons, though -- planning to go from an Emerald Ripper in the OH to a sexy Gladiator's Quickblade, for a hit + crit + DPS + swing speed upgrade.
defiance and last stand are no brainers, I'd probably take imp shield block if not only to save the healers in instances, who are almost always non-healing spec
not really. The offtank always gets the weaker mob, Julianne for example only melees every seconds in between two casts. Moroes melees you all of 5 seconds per minute, Midnight attacks very slow etc. Its definitivly not "extremely painful", more like "mildly annoying".
That's fair -- I'm probably blowing it out of proportion. The only times I ever off-tanked in Kara, I was full Prot, just because I like overkill.
We usually had our non-Prot offtank on Romulo, though, since we typically killed Julianne first. Even I was having Crushings sneak through on that guy, with Imp. Shield Block and ~500 defense. With no Dispel/Purge, he just hits so fucking fast. I remember said offtank going down a lot in the early days of our Kara.
All boss (skull) mobs are treated as 3 levels above you.
I know. I just didn't remember whether or not they were skulls.
Imp. Shield Block is actually pretty un-necessary if you have good gear (490 def and over 12k HP before talents) and you'll get more practical mitigation overall from the armor talent from personal experience.
With the exception of Lynx and Bear bosses in ZA, which you can get away using a Feral Druid on, most bosses that require more than 1 tank are pretty friendly for off-specs. Netherspite doesn't crush, Gruul doesn't crush the OT, and most other things you need to OT hit for reasonable amounts.
Assuming you can't somehow get out of combat, you're really not doing anywhere near as much damage as you would normally by just swapping weapons. Admittedly, it's more damage than if you just stayed with the sword-n'-board, but I just wanted to clarify that the second you enter combat with your tanking set on, you're severely gimped for anything but tanking, no matter the spec.
you can offtank the vast majority of stuff in raid content
then you can swap to a twohander and wreak some havoc
Not as much as any sacrificial-dps geared class, but you can add something (and 4% more physical damage)
I loaded up my Paladin the other day to help out a RL friend with the Ring of Blood. I tanked the whole thing in my Merciless healing set, thanks to the new spell power.
Those 4k non-crit shocks do hurt with only 11k health though....
mm i love spell reflect on my warrior for this fight, allowed me to hold threat on him over an epic'd Rogue and Lock
Entire Set
Helm
Shoulders
Chest
Gloves
Legs
Personally, I think I may go for the helmet because it's the coolest goddamn looking helmet evar. Especially for Tauren. 4x horns make me happy :P
EDIT: I sure hope that was a glitch, because I saw this as a triple-post...
I haven't had any luck wading knee deep in the official forum shit and like usual I'm too damn lazy to browse through 30 pages of discussion and debates here.
Anyway, I'm leveling up my warrior and I have no intentions of being anything other than prot at 70 (and 80). I'll only really be doing instances and not raiding but that's fine by me. I'm not leveling this guy for dps or anything, I have plenty of other toons that are straight up dps for that.
Well, that sounds all well and nice but here's the problem. I need to be able to solo too. The current plan I have is to instance the shit out of 60-70 and be level 70 before I finish quests in Terokkar so that I have all of Nagrand/BEM/Netherstorm/SMV for mad cash. The problem here is: I don't want to solo full-on prot.
So what I need help with is a good hybrid, ideally prot/fury (since I'm leveling fury), build that will allow me to competently tank 5 mans (not really heroics, by the time I get to heroics I should be done soloing and be able to go full on prot) and still be able to solo grind out quests in a non-mind numbing fashion. If anything a slight focus on the dps aspect would be fine since non-heroic 5 man's don't require a heavy focus on mitigation and threat, everything dies quickly. This is obviously debatable but it's what I'm going with. :P
Whatever build I get for this only needs to 5 man and quest grind. I won't be pvping/raiding/arenaing with this toon at all so I don't need to have catch-alls for those.
So...any advice?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I didn't quest much between 60 and 70, mostly solo grinding and some instancing.
Should I stay Arms? Should I go Fury in hope that I can get nice greens from quest rewards in Outland?
I really only enjoy Fury, so I leveled that all the way up, and it wasn't bad, but I was partnered with a healer for most of it, which can make any warrior spec not too bad.
From Prot I'd recommend
3 TM, 2 Anticipation - A flexible combination, increased threat from Bloodthirst and some protection
5 Toughness - Helps tanking and reduces downtime while grinding
3 Defiance, 3 Improved Revenge, 1 Last Stand - Increased threat, stuns which actually work and an emergency button
Rest of your points into Fury as you please.
My warrior is 36. I've been levelling Fury (using Whirlwind Axe) and have been just running around in Battle Stance using Slam mostly, for the past two levels. Now I just learned Whirlwind. Do I keep up with the Slamming? Should I be grinding in Berzerker Stance? Should I use Whirlwind at all? It seems way too expensive to be grinding with.
Help omg
Too expensive, rage wise? Pull more mobs. 3-4 mobs at a time w/ sweeping strikes whirlwind/cleave spam. You're going to want to start DWing soon, too, when Whirlwind Axe gets out of date.
edit: also don't forget zerker rage for more rage when being hit.
I remember, way back, one of the blue posters was on the forums, defending their decision not to change TM from all point based to at least partially built into the class. I forget the exact wording, but it was a mage/ warrior comparison. Something along the lines of...
"We understand that it feels inconvinent to devote several points into this in order to achieve a certai nlevel of competance. However, the same argument could be applied to mages, and the points needed to make arcane explosion instant-cast. Sure, we COULD make it free, but we have no intention of changing that at this time."
Then, a year and some patches later.
"Hey Druids, innervate is free now, and here's an awesome replacement talent if you're currently rejuv. Oh, hey, mages. Here's free instant arcane explosion. Warriors, fuck off."
I was pissed, to say the least. But it's in the past now.
It is a lot easier though.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Shield Slam is pretty massive threat.