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[WoW] Warriors: L2Tank Here

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Posts

  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    So hey, have you guys seen the new bloodthirst? 1.5% health regen every time you use it? o_O

    Does anyone else think this is going to get nerfed? I certainly hope it doesn't, but 1.5% of your health back every 6 seconds sounds pretty damn godly.

    Wavechaser on
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    It's... all the little things in Fury that makes me think us fury warriors will finally be able to compete in PvP. Heroic Leap works well as a way to catch a fleeing target or to escape, one can take a nose dive off a cliff and as long as you have the rage it can be used to save your ass. The whole new way Bloodthirst heals is nice too, since it's our #1 ability.

    Oh I guess I should put this in here since I was planning to already and it's near the top.

    You guys remember when I got Gorehowl and went for PvE Arms spec, yes? Well it seems to me that my guild wont have much of a use for it really, and since my gear has gotten far better, and all that's left of my blues are my trinkets, ranged weapon boots(Which hopefully can be replaced by Ogri'la ones or the ones from normal MgT) and Chestpiece(Got everything for my Breastplate of Kings, just need the primals transmuted). My biggest problem I think was that my gear just wasn't all that good overall, but now I've got the armor to actually support fury. I consider myself rather well versed when it comes to the in and outs of fury, I know my rotation by heart and have always known about the 95 soft hit cap... but something has been confusing me lately.

    From one source, TankSpot, I get information that gemming for hit as a fury warrior is something that is bad and should make you feel bad, that your gear should have enough for you. And then there is my friend who says that the more hit the better. I know hit doesn't benefit warriors the same way it does for rogues, we don't have any sort of proc talent that'd require massive hit. However more hit means your white attacks will land more, which equals more rage, but at the same time I've heard that most of my damage as a fury warrior would come from my yellow attacks.

    Perhaps it's all just opinion, and in the end some of the things only matter if you're trying to push out that last one or two dps for Black Temple, but I'd still like to get some opinions here to set things straight. I've accomplished my goal of getting Gorehowl, and my Epic Flying Mount so all I have now is gear, and I'd like to make sure I go for the proper stuff. Currently I think I know what I need in terms of upgrades, and am eager to replace my gladiator gear for something more appropriate. Though it would be my weapons that are the biggest problems. I have the Gladiator off-hand axe, and the Big Bad Wolf's Paw. Both I want to replace since I'll be looking for two slow weapons. A rather obvious choice might be the Merciless Axes, two of the slow ones. Although possibly one of them and the axe that drops from Kael'thas in Heroic MgT could work well too.

    Arthil on
    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: Arthil
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Arthil wrote: »
    It's... all the little things in Fury that makes me think us fury warriors will finally be able to compete in PvP. Heroic Leap works well as a way to catch a fleeing target or to escape, one can take a nose dive off a cliff and as long as you have the rage it can be used to save your ass. The whole new way Bloodthirst heals is nice too, since it's our #1 ability.

    Oh I guess I should put this in here since I was planning to already and it's near the top.

    You guys remember when I got Gorehowl and went for PvE Arms spec, yes? Well it seems to me that my guild wont have much of a use for it really, and since my gear has gotten far better, and all that's left of my blues are my trinkets, ranged weapon boots(Which hopefully can be replaced by Ogri'la ones or the ones from normal MgT) and Chestpiece(Got everything for my Breastplate of Kings, just need the primals transmuted). My biggest problem I think was that my gear just wasn't all that good overall, but now I've got the armor to actually support fury. I consider myself rather well versed when it comes to the in and outs of fury, I know my rotation by heart and have always known about the 95 soft hit cap... but something has been confusing me lately.

    From one source, TankSpot, I get information that gemming for hit as a fury warrior is something that is bad and should make you feel bad, that your gear should have enough for you. And then there is my friend who says that the more hit the better. I know hit doesn't benefit warriors the same way it does for rogues, we don't have any sort of proc talent that'd require massive hit. However more hit means your white attacks will land more, which equals more rage, but at the same time I've heard that most of my damage as a fury warrior would come from my yellow attacks.

    Perhaps it's all just opinion, and in the end some of the things only matter if you're trying to push out that last one or two dps for Black Temple, but I'd still like to get some opinions here to set things straight. I've accomplished my goal of getting Gorehowl, and my Epic Flying Mount so all I have now is gear, and I'd like to make sure I go for the proper stuff. Currently I think I know what I need in terms of upgrades, and am eager to replace my gladiator gear for something more appropriate. Though it would be my weapons that are the biggest problems. I have the Gladiator off-hand axe, and the Big Bad Wolf's Paw. Both I want to replace since I'll be looking for two slow weapons. A rather obvious choice might be the Merciless Axes, two of the slow ones. Although possibly one of them and the axe that drops from Kael'thas in Heroic MgT could work well too.

    Hit + Haste is a nice combo, and is supported by new badge gear. Other than that, hit is of secondary (or even tertiary) concern. With windfury (which you should have), your rage generation will be through the roof, even with 95 HR (+3/3 Precision). White damage ends up being around 30-35% of your overall damage, where, as a rogue, it's closer to 60%. I would focus on AP, then crit, and hit where it's offered. Don't gem for it, unless you're after a heavy Haste+Hit combo.

    On weapons, the Axe out of Heroic MrT is good, and it's not unique. Obviously the badge fists are amazing (2.5 offhand), and Heartless out of ZA. Merciless 1h are good, Vengeful are better, and Gladiator are meh.

    Also, your guild doesn't have a need for 4% increased physical damage? What?

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Yeah I asked about this in the chat thread, and was basically told by most Warriors to shoot for around 95ish hit, and then don't focus on it, but you can get up to around 142 and still get a benefit from it.

    Basically I would just do that, make sure you are around that 90 mark and then focus on things like AP/Crit and stuff.

    God I can't wait for WotLK... It's killing me! This is probably how i'll be speccing.

    I keep debating on Bloodsurge, but I honestly think i'll have more than enough rage dumps with Bloodbath and H-Strike, also with 1.5% health back from Bloodthirst, I think I would rather have the additional 6% stamina.

    Man, a lot of our abilities have "blood" in them, very confusing.

    Wavechaser on
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Well the reason being is we are just starting to go beyond Karazhan. Trying to work into Gruul's and doing attempts at Zul'Aman. We also seem to be caster heavy, in one Gruul's run there was me, two rogues a hunters and an enhancement shaman. Pretty much the rest of the DPS were casters. But yes! The whole get to 95 and just soak up hit as you go thing has been known to me, it's just hard to really know who's feeding you bullshit, especially when one of the people giving you advice is an actual in-game friend. Though he doesn't gem for hit like mad, he's got a few mixed in with strength gems. I've got 101 hit rating right now, and I'll have a lot more come my new breast plate, yet I also got a good bit of everything else. It seems that if I were to equip the weapons I said I had now, I'd have an insane amount of crit, 28% in zerker. My AP doesn't look so good, though, 1540. Since the Breastplate of Kings, along with it's upgrades will have a lot of crit already, I may put nothing but strength gems into it.

    Arthil on
    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: Arthil
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Man, a lot of our abilities have "blood" in them, very awwwweeeesoooooommmmmeeee.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Arthil wrote: »
    We also seem to be caster heavy, in one Gruul's run there was me, two rogues a hunters and an enhancement shaman.

    Assuming all of those people are doing 800 DPS, that's still a 160 DPS boost to the raid. It's not bad.


    Arthil wrote: »
    I may put nothing but strength gems into it.

    This should be standard, other than meeting Meta requirements. For blues, there's Sovereign Nightseye (4 STR/6 STA), and for yellows, Inscribed Noble Topaz (4 Crit/4 STR).

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Well I don't really think... anyone in the guild puts out that much. Of course unlike some my eyes aren't glued to recount. I know that I was averaging 540 with my current gear as PvE arms, not sure if that's good, or bad.

    Arthil on
    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: Arthil
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    You should be able to get up to around 800 pretty easily through a mixture of crafted/pvp/easy badge gear, along with the proper enchants/gem choices.

    PierceNeck on
    steam_sig.png
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Arthil wrote: »
    Well I don't really think... anyone in the guild puts out that much. Of course unlike some my eyes aren't glued to recount. I know that I was averaging 540 with my current gear as PvE arms, not sure if that's good, or bad.

    It's fine in Kara gear with Gorehowl. I may have estimated a bit high on overall DPS though. I really don't remember being a hunter in Kara gear. My rogue always had shit gear, and my warrior is in mostly ten man gear, doing around 700 sustained w/o Windfury (850 or so with). Certainly nothing to write home about. :(

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I keep bouncing back and forth between Pauldrons of Gruesome Fate and Shoulderpads of Dancing Blades. I have both, and constantly switch between the two.


    EDIT: NVM. Pauldrons of Gruesome Fate win by a fair margin.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    So hey, have you guys seen the new bloodthirst? 1.5% health regen every time you use it? o_O

    Does anyone else think this is going to get nerfed? I certainly hope it doesn't, but 1.5% of your health back every 6 seconds sounds pretty damn godly.

    Uhhh it's actually 1.5% of your health back per swing for 5 swings.

    Mgcw on
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Even better.

    Wavechaser on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2008
    Have the talent changes been posted yet?

    Nothing much, but Impale is now the pre-req for Deep Wounds and I think is a tier earlier now.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Wow. Looks like it was done mainly for Titan grip specs. Now you can save 3 points and get Impale, get the full 5% bonus on 2 handers, and if you skip Heroic Leap you can take Sweeping Strikes or even a minor weapon spec (1% sword spec is still 1%). Cool beans.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • formatformat Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Yeah I asked about this in the chat thread, and was basically told by most Warriors to shoot for around 95ish hit, and then don't focus on it, but you can get up to around 142 and still get a benefit from it.

    the friend is right that 'more is always better'

    BUT AP(from str) and crit, in that order, outweigh hit rating after 95.

    You need 9% hit to not miss specials attacks (yellow damage) on raid level (or ??) bosses, You get 3% from precision, so you need 6% from gear. 1% hit is equal to 15.77 hit rating, therefore you need 95 hit rating to "soft cap".

    the 142 is without precision to hit 9%

    you will always benefit from hit, until you hit like 400 with precision. The only reason you would ever gem for hit rating would be because you are out of rage often. f you can not hit 95 with just gear, you should not spec fury. If you are running out of rage, switch some gear to that with hit rating untill you have enough rage.

    Anecdotally, I was worried about going from 200 hit rating down to 170 hit rating in the transition from T5 to T6 but I am more often threat-capped rather than rage-capped. I heroic strike way too much but the alternative is letting my rage go to waste.

    format on
    You don't know if I am joking or not.
  • formatformat Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Arthil wrote: »
    I have the Gladiator off-hand axe, and the Big Bad Wolf's Paw. Both I want to replace since I'll be looking for two slow weapons. A rather obvious choice might be the Merciless Axes, two of the slow ones. Although possibly one of them and the axe that drops from Kael'thas in Heroic MgT could work well too.

    get the badge fist weapons.

    they look goofy but the best 150 badges you will ever spend.

    format on
    You don't know if I am joking or not.
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Improved Shield Wall now reduces the cooldown by 30/60 secs. (Previously increased duration by 3/5 secs)
    If the cooldown is still 30 minutes this talent has become the tank version of improved rend.

    edit!
    Looks like Shield Wall is now a 50% damage reduction for 12seconds with a 5minute cooldown. Improved Shield Wall lowers the cooldown by 60 seconds.

    815165 on
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    One hopes they have the sense to delink it from Retaliation and Recklessness now too.

    Seems obvious, but you never know with these people.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    One hopes they have the sense to delink it from Retaliation and Recklessness now too.

    Seems obvious, but you never know with these people.
    I'd be pretty happy if they gave Retalliation (which is currently useless anyway, needs improving) and Recklessness the same treatment and gave them all a shared 5 minute cooldown.

    815165 on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Oooh, didn't notice that now deep wounds is a 6 second instead of 12 second dot. That's good news for helping to prevent overwriting it.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hay guyz, retaliation is now at 12 second duration, 12 swings, 5 minute cooldown!

    Henroid on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    it still doesn't seem very useful

    Dhalphir on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    it still doesn't seem very useful

    You're not thinking outside the box!

    Henroid on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    actually it could help in Battle Stance for warrior tanks to semi-mimic Retribution Aura, to help with aoe tanking. I don't know the exact numbers on Retaliation though

    Dhalphir on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The functionality of it needs to change, the duration and cooldown weren't the problem.

    815165 on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I think it'd help a lot to remove the goddamn swing limit.

    Henroid on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    You guys posted that but forgot Recklessness?

    Your next 0 special ability attacks have an additional 100% to critically hit but all damage taken is increased by 20%. Lasts 12 sec.
    Instant, 5 min cooldown

    lol, pvp.

    Also http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/wotlk/professions/jewelcrafting/metagems/metagem_03.jpg + new blood craze + new bloodthirst imo.

    Mgcw on
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Retaliation was only ever good if 3 more more things were hitting you. Ironically though, 3 or more things hitting you typically kills most average geared warriors.

    Now that I have the weapons and armor to survive, I usually use it if I get knocked off my mount via running through a group of mobs, just to end the fight that much quicker and get back to where I was going.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I'll be hitting 70 on my Warrior tomorrow, what should I look at in terms of minimum specs for tanking heroics?

    At 69 I am hitting about 11.9k HP (with commanding), dodge/parry/block hover between 8% and 13% each.

    I am not Prot, btw.

    I'm still not sure what I want to actually do. I may go prot for a while just to sharpen my tanking skills on the high end and then just BG it up.

    I'll be making my Master Hammersmith 2h mace ASAP :)

    Jasconius on
  • MistaCreepyMistaCreepy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Retaliation was only ever good if 3 more more things were hitting you. Ironically though, 3 or more things hitting you typically kills most average geared warriors.

    Now that I have the weapons and armor to survive, I usually use it if I get knocked off my mount via running through a group of mobs, just to end the fight that much quicker and get back to where I was going.

    Retaliation is great for fighting rogues in BG's. If they're smart they will stop attacking thus giving you the initiative to start the fight over on your terms.

    At worst they'll just blind you and run away.

    MistaCreepy on
    PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
  • grumthorngrumthorn Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Jasconius wrote: »
    I'll be hitting 70 on my Warrior tomorrow, what should I look at in terms of minimum specs for tanking heroics?

    At 69 I am hitting about 11.9k HP (with commanding), dodge/parry/block hover between 8% and 13% each.

    I am not Prot, btw.

    I'm still not sure what I want to actually do. I may go prot for a while just to sharpen my tanking skills on the high end and then just BG it up.

    I'll be making my Master Hammersmith 2h mace ASAP :)

    Try getting to about 13-14k unbuffed health while at the defense cap (490 defense).

    This will allow you to be successfully tank most heroics. Useful obtainable items include the sword at SSO revered, the shield at SSO exalted (or the pvp shield). the belt from obtaining the arca key (i think that's where it's from, some TK quest anyway). The boots from the mana tombs escort Q, the chestplate from altruis's quests in nagrand.

    That said be prepared for pugs to bitch at you for being too hard to heal or not holding aggro well enough because you're not a t6 geared prot pally. Tell these people to get stuffed and work with the tank they have not some mythical supertank they want to have do all the hard work for them. If you can find a stable group of people to run the daily heroic with, stick with them even if they're not the awesomest ever, good communication and understanding of other group members is the key to getting heroics working.

    The very best way to get tank gear for heroics is ironically as an offtank in kara, once you have some quest items and dungeon blues you can off tank stuff in kara and get badges (some of the badge tanking loot is good right up into BT) and tank drops other people don't want far faster than you would doing heroics. I've had a just dinged 70 prot warrior in his levelling greens tank in there just to have someone to press taunt every 8 seconds to occupy a trash mob or off tank a boss add.

    That's prot, the other specs are also viable but expect starting out as a pve dps warrior to suck enormous dong, it's almost impossible to get groups as a dps warrior because you have no CC or other utility. Unless you have an understanding guild and access to alt-kara runs you will be left out in the cold a lot. Arms pvp spec is a lot of fun, once you get decent gear, but boy does the grind to weapon + full S2 suck.

    overall advice : - if you have access to alt-kara spec prot and do that. If you don't go the PvP route but be aware it will take a while before you are a force people will respect.

    grumthorn on
  • MistaCreepyMistaCreepy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    grumthorn wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    I'll be hitting 70 on my Warrior tomorrow, what should I look at in terms of minimum specs for tanking heroics?

    At 69 I am hitting about 11.9k HP (with commanding), dodge/parry/block hover between 8% and 13% each.

    I am not Prot, btw.

    I'm still not sure what I want to actually do. I may go prot for a while just to sharpen my tanking skills on the high end and then just BG it up.

    I'll be making my Master Hammersmith 2h mace ASAP :)

    Unless you have an understanding guild and access to alt-kara runs you will be left out in the cold a lot. Arms pvp spec is a lot of fun, once you get decent gear, but boy does the grind to weapon + full S2 suck.

    Oh god this. Now that my arena teams are actually winning more than they are losing my teams expections of me have risen accordingly. I havent done a BG in weeks becuase every time I grind out 17k honor to get an offset epic (the last one was the S4 belt) I get sick at the thought of doing another BG. The S2 weapon was a bitch too but since you're probably gonna craft yourself a stormherald then you dont have to worry about that. Just get your offset epics (boots, wrist, belt, rings and neck) and ride those rep blues into the arenas and start building up points.

    If all you want to do is tank than ignore everything I just said :P

    MistaCreepy on
    PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
  • Walrus PeteWalrus Pete Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Has Retaliation been nerfed recently (recently being within the past... year?) or does its usefulness just drop off at high level play? It saved my warrior's ass many times while he was leveling.

    Walrus Pete on
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Oh no it's still for those 'OH FUCK!' moments. Been plenty of times that I'm getting swarmed by a bunch of things and it saved my ass.

    Arthil on
    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: Arthil
  • SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I tend to choose Recklessness over Retaliation.

    Seg on
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    That usually makes me dead when it's a whole lot of things instead of one strong thing. Recklessness will just get you killed quicker with 10+ enemies hitting you.

    Arthil on
    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: Arthil
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I'll go for Recklessness when I'm starting a fight I know might be a challenge so I can get an extra edge. Like taking on an elite.

    Retaliation I'll use when getting ambushed by a group and it's improbable to run.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The problem with retalliation is that it only works on hits that damage you, so it's useless for prot soloing.

    815165 on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Quoting my post from a few weeks back.
    I would be willing to bet they intend it as a raiding talent, being as high up in the fury tree as it is. So... I can't see why they would do that. [Make it do less DPS than a 1h Fury Build]
    Blue wrote:
    The design is for Titan's Grip to be a dps increase. It's easy to make it too much of an increase, and we may be being too cautious with the numbers at the moment. But when we talk about Lich King, we are assuming most Fury warriors are using two-handers. It's not supposed to be hard decision.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
This discussion has been closed.