I would be willing to bet they intend it as a raiding talent, being as high up in the fury tree as it is. So... I can't see why they would do that. [Make it do less DPS than a 1h Fury Build]
The design is for Titan's Grip to be a dps increase. It's easy to make it too much of an increase, and we may be being too cautious with the numbers at the moment. But when we talk about Lich King, we are assuming most Fury warriors are using two-handers. It's not supposed to be hard decision.
I would be willing to bet they intend it as a raiding talent, being as high up in the fury tree as it is. So... I can't see why they would do that. [Make it do less DPS than a 1h Fury Build]
The design is for Titan's Grip to be a dps increase. It's easy to make it too much of an increase, and we may be being too cautious with the numbers at the moment. But when we talk about Lich King, we are assuming most Fury warriors are using two-handers. It's not supposed to be hard decision.
I'll be hitting 70 on my Warrior tomorrow, what should I look at in terms of minimum specs for tanking heroics?
At 69 I am hitting about 11.9k HP (with commanding), dodge/parry/block hover between 8% and 13% each.
I am not Prot, btw.
I'm still not sure what I want to actually do. I may go prot for a while just to sharpen my tanking skills on the high end and then just BG it up.
I'll be making my Master Hammersmith 2h mace ASAP
Try getting to about 13-14k unbuffed health while at the defense cap (490 defense).
This will allow you to be successfully tank most heroics. Useful obtainable items include the sword at SSO revered, the shield at SSO exalted (or the pvp shield). the belt from obtaining the arca key (i think that's where it's from, some TK quest anyway). The boots from the mana tombs escort Q, the chestplate from altruis's quests in nagrand.
That said be prepared for pugs to bitch at you for being too hard to heal or not holding aggro well enough because you're not a t6 geared prot pally. Tell these people to get stuffed and work with the tank they have not some mythical supertank they want to have do all the hard work for them. If you can find a stable group of people to run the daily heroic with, stick with them even if they're not the awesomest ever, good communication and understanding of other group members is the key to getting heroics working.
The very best way to get tank gear for heroics is ironically as an offtank in kara, once you have some quest items and dungeon blues you can off tank stuff in kara and get badges (some of the badge tanking loot is good right up into BT) and tank drops other people don't want far faster than you would doing heroics. I've had a just dinged 70 prot warrior in his levelling greens tank in there just to have someone to press taunt every 8 seconds to occupy a trash mob or off tank a boss add.
That's prot, the other specs are also viable but expect starting out as a pve dps warrior to suck enormous dong, it's almost impossible to get groups as a dps warrior because you have no CC or other utility. Unless you have an understanding guild and access to alt-kara runs you will be left out in the cold a lot. Arms pvp spec is a lot of fun, once you get decent gear, but boy does the grind to weapon + full S2 suck.
overall advice : - if you have access to alt-kara spec prot and do that. If you don't go the PvP route but be aware it will take a while before you are a force people will respect.
Yeah I've just been doing non-heroics so far. I'm only to 11.1k unbuffed health - I am not even close to defense cap, partially because I dropped by Burnoose of Shifting Sands from BM for the epic resil cloak from MgT (more stam, more armor).
My big issue right now is my green shield and green BP - I'm hoping to get some TK runs in and at the very least I can get the PVP chest from Shatar Honored.
Also my weapon is a bit old (Kopesh from Nagrand), should I craft the Master Hammersmith 1H? It's slower, like 2.6, but the DPS is much higher obviously.
But my tanking is superb in regulars, I've done MgT, SL, and SH flawlessly in basically blue/green mix, the problem is finding groups when I need them... not many people on my server run regulars anymore.
you want a fast tanking weapon, not a slow one. While rage generation is trivial against bosses most of the time, you need some fast weapon hits on trash pulls to build the rage to keep the mobs that give you rage via hitting you. The kopesh is about the slowest tanking weapon that is reasonably feasible, any slower and you are hurting yourself.
So I'm wondering, do you think there are any Warriors out there that aren't going to be going TG? I mean seriously, aside from your dedicated prot tanking Warriors, who the hell can resist TG goodness?
I think every warrior will go for Titan's Grip for awhile, and then when healers start getting more +healing at 80 warriors will drift back to MS builds for pvp.
I think my own warrior will be put on a back burner for the first few months of Wrath, I want to level my shadow priest and druid first I think. Which is funny considering that my warrior was my first 60 and then my first 70.
So I'm wondering, do you think there are any Warriors out there that aren't going to be going TG? I mean seriously, aside from your dedicated prot tanking Warriors, who the hell can resist TG goodness?
given the position of BF in the arms tree, if this talent distribution goes live there won't be any TG warriors in high end raiding.
You probably missed the blue post earlier in this thread.
I did not. My argument is thus:
1. there will be two warrior spots in agiven raid, since the melee spots now have to be shared with the death knights as well
2. One warrior will be tanking
3. Leaves one spot open. BF is currently our best raid spot gurantee, and its 41 points into arms. thus, BF+ TG is impossible.
4. You asked why there would be
any Warriors out there that aren't going to be going TG? I mean seriously, aside from your dedicated prot tanking Warriors, who the hell can resist TG goodness?
The answer is simple. If you are warrior, and want to see high end endgame content, Tg won't get you there, or at least isn't the best way to get a raid spot.
You probably missed the blue post earlier in this thread.
I did not. My argument is thus:
1. there will be two warrior spots in agiven raid, since the melee spots now have to be shared with the death knights as well
2. One warrior will be tanking
3. Leaves one spot open. BF is currently our best raid spot gurantee, and its 41 points into arms. thus, BF+ TG is impossible.
4. You asked why there would be
any Warriors out there that aren't going to be going TG? I mean seriously, aside from your dedicated prot tanking Warriors, who the hell can resist TG goodness?
The answer is simple. If you are warrior, and want to see high end endgame content, Tg won't get you there, or at least isn't the best way to get a raid spot.
Hopefully Blizzard will see that and change it.
Hurrr, your point #2 sucks balls because they've said they want Warriors, Paladins, DKs and Druids to be equal as MTs therefore "one warrior will be tanking" is stupid. Whether the current status reflects that or not really doesn't matter because it's beta and because Warriors haven't gotten any changes in like 3 patches and are due for a lot. His point, and even if you did read the blue post you clearly didn't comprehend it, was that they don't want Titan's Grip to be a DPS decrease. You might have also missed the part where they're very much looking at consolidating raid debuffs, like Blood Frenzy, across classes.
at this point they should probably just delete bloodfrenzy
it's bad design to have a single talent that's better than anything else a class can offer to a 25 man.
yeah it's kinda annoying
maybe move it down to tier 2 arms or fury or something who knows
Or, just for an example, tack it onto an already existing Feral Druid talent, like they've given Unholy DKs Curse of Elements debuff that won't stack with it, and a Windfury buff that won't stack with Windfury.
I'll be hitting 70 on my Warrior tomorrow, what should I look at in terms of minimum specs for tanking heroics?
At 69 I am hitting about 11.9k HP (with commanding), dodge/parry/block hover between 8% and 13% each.
I am not Prot, btw.
I'm still not sure what I want to actually do. I may go prot for a while just to sharpen my tanking skills on the high end and then just BG it up.
I'll be making my Master Hammersmith 2h mace ASAP
Try getting to about 13-14k unbuffed health while at the defense cap (490 defense).
This will allow you to be successfully tank most heroics. Useful obtainable items include the sword at SSO revered, the shield at SSO exalted (or the pvp shield). the belt from obtaining the arca key (i think that's where it's from, some TK quest anyway). The boots from the mana tombs escort Q, the chestplate from altruis's quests in nagrand.
That said be prepared for pugs to bitch at you for being too hard to heal or not holding aggro well enough because you're not a t6 geared prot pally. Tell these people to get stuffed and work with the tank they have not some mythical supertank they want to have do all the hard work for them. If you can find a stable group of people to run the daily heroic with, stick with them even if they're not the awesomest ever, good communication and understanding of other group members is the key to getting heroics working.
The very best way to get tank gear for heroics is ironically as an offtank in kara, once you have some quest items and dungeon blues you can off tank stuff in kara and get badges (some of the badge tanking loot is good right up into BT) and tank drops other people don't want far faster than you would doing heroics. I've had a just dinged 70 prot warrior in his levelling greens tank in there just to have someone to press taunt every 8 seconds to occupy a trash mob or off tank a boss add.
That's prot, the other specs are also viable but expect starting out as a pve dps warrior to suck enormous dong, it's almost impossible to get groups as a dps warrior because you have no CC or other utility. Unless you have an understanding guild and access to alt-kara runs you will be left out in the cold a lot. Arms pvp spec is a lot of fun, once you get decent gear, but boy does the grind to weapon + full S2 suck.
overall advice : - if you have access to alt-kara spec prot and do that. If you don't go the PvP route but be aware it will take a while before you are a force people will respect.
Yeah I've just been doing non-heroics so far. I'm only to 11.1k unbuffed health - I am not even close to defense cap, partially because I dropped by Burnoose of Shifting Sands from BM for the epic resil cloak from MgT (more stam, more armor).
My big issue right now is my green shield and green BP - I'm hoping to get some TK runs in and at the very least I can get the PVP chest from Shatar Honored.
Also my weapon is a bit old (Kopesh from Nagrand), should I craft the Master Hammersmith 1H? It's slower, like 2.6, but the DPS is much higher obviously.
But my tanking is superb in regulars, I've done MgT, SL, and SH flawlessly in basically blue/green mix, the problem is finding groups when I need them... not many people on my server run regulars anymore.
So I'm going to say you should get the cloak from Steam Vaults for tanking as I remember it being pretty solid. The reputation rewards from Keepers of Time gives a good legs and a sweet enchant. Keep the Kopesh because as already said, you want something fast as a tank. If you don't have your Of the Bold set or the Blacksmith Fel Steel set those are great ways to turn your slots from green to blue. SSO rep will fix your shield/sword unless you grind Heroic Mechanar for a Sun Eater and the rep reward shield. Grind Shadow Labrynith for the Trinket Blackheart drops because 32 defense is no joke.
Additionally, one of your first badge rewards (IMO) should be the wrists because they have expertise on them which I found to be awesome for getting rid of those nasty parries.
I'm about 103% sure that my warrior will be my main come Wrath, but I am looking forward to PvPing with an Assassination Rogue, and telling my pet devilsaur to eat faces.
So I'm wondering, do you think there are any Warriors out there that aren't going to be going TG? I mean seriously, aside from your dedicated prot tanking Warriors, who the hell can resist TG goodness?
I can. I have a particular build in mind, there's a bunch of stuff I love in the arms tree as well as the fury tree and I want to have both.
I see myself speccing this unsightly spec when I get to 80. The warrior "hybrid" spec is so much damn fun. No group buffs except for TC but whatever. I mostly PvP on my warrior anyways.
edit: Does anyone know if MS and Bloodthirst share a cooldown?
new Bloodthirst + new meta that heals you when you're crit + new blood craze + last stand = fuckin heal myself, mofucker. Also new Recklessness means BT crit to Instant Slam crit to Whirlwind crit, mwahaha.
edit: They've said they might even give Last Stand a glyph that would stick it at 20% instead of 30% but give it a 2 min cooldown, which would be fucking awesome as hell.
Hurrr, your point #2 sucks balls because they've said they want Warriors, Paladins, DKs and Druids to be equal as MTs therefore "one warrior will be tanking" is stupid.
Everything I've read suggests they're essentially furthering the current setup, where warriors are more or less your best option for general-purpose tanking, and that paladins and druids [and eventually DKs] can main-tank, but that you're best off keeping your Prot warrior around, even if he's not the default MT. You're confusing the relative buffing of not-warrior tanks with Prot warriors' being made obsolete.
If what you're describing were true, what would be the purpose in ever bringing a warrior as anything but a Blood Frenzy / Sunder-bot? Paladins can throw on healy gear and toss out anemic Flashes or Holy Lights until they OOM themselves, as well as keep up a Light or Wisdom; Feral druids can do respectable DPS as well as provide a substantial buff to any melee DPS group; Death Knights will ostensibly be able to DPS, too. I think Blizzard sees all this and will definitely keep Prot warriors competitive just because: A) they don't bring much to a raid but the ability to tank well, and they're the quintessential tanks.
Hamurabi on
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kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
Hurrr, your point #2 sucks balls because they've said they want Warriors, Paladins, DKs and Druids to be equal as MTs therefore "one warrior will be tanking" is stupid.
Everything I've read suggests they're essentially furthering the current setup, where warriors are more or less your best option for general-purpose tanking, and that paladins and druids [and eventually DKs] can main-tank, but that you're best off keeping your Prot warrior around, even if he's not the default MT. You're confusing the relative buffing of not-warrior tanks with Prot warriors' being made obsolete.
If what you're describing were true, what would be the purpose in ever bringing a warrior as anything but a Blood Frenzy / Sunder-bot? Paladins can throw on healy gear and toss out anemic Flashes or Holy Lights until they OOM themselves, as well as keep up a Light or Wisdom; Feral druids can do respectable DPS as well as provide a substantial buff to any melee DPS group; Death Knights will ostensibly be able to DPS, too. I think Blizzard sees all this and will definitely keep Prot warriors competitive just because: A) they don't bring much to a raid but the ability to tank well, and they're the quintessential tanks.
Posts
Retaliation = Swamped by mobs or anti Rogue
1) Run into Van/Drek's room when the opposing team is getting ready to pull.
2) Pop Sweeping Strikes
3) Pop Recklessness
4) NUMBERS.
Well that's a damn relief.
Quite so, good sir. Quite so.
I personally like to find the largest group, then charge / fear.
lololwipe
Put the two together!
Speaking of Drek...
Bob: ALL IN!
(everyone gets in)
Steve: NO TANK.
Me: I'll tank.
Bob: Go.
Me: (attacks Drek)
Me: (gets not one single heal)
Me: (dies horribly)
seriously. I mean, he plays a shadow priest/moonkin/elemental shaman/Retadin and lets me die every single time, leading to a wipe. A heal? Anyone?
This is hardly my complaint. I always check to make sure there are healers. And I say "Going in, please heal."
And people just stand there, dumbfounded.
Yeah I've just been doing non-heroics so far. I'm only to 11.1k unbuffed health - I am not even close to defense cap, partially because I dropped by Burnoose of Shifting Sands from BM for the epic resil cloak from MgT (more stam, more armor).
My big issue right now is my green shield and green BP - I'm hoping to get some TK runs in and at the very least I can get the PVP chest from Shatar Honored.
Also my weapon is a bit old (Kopesh from Nagrand), should I craft the Master Hammersmith 1H? It's slower, like 2.6, but the DPS is much higher obviously.
But my tanking is superb in regulars, I've done MgT, SL, and SH flawlessly in basically blue/green mix, the problem is finding groups when I need them... not many people on my server run regulars anymore.
I think my own warrior will be put on a back burner for the first few months of Wrath, I want to level my shadow priest and druid first I think. Which is funny considering that my warrior was my first 60 and then my first 70.
given the position of BF in the arms tree, if this talent distribution goes live there won't be any TG warriors in high end raiding.
it's bad design to have a single talent that's better than anything else a class can offer to a 25 man.
I did not. My argument is thus:
1. there will be two warrior spots in agiven raid, since the melee spots now have to be shared with the death knights as well
2. One warrior will be tanking
3. Leaves one spot open. BF is currently our best raid spot gurantee, and its 41 points into arms. thus, BF+ TG is impossible.
4. You asked why there would be
The answer is simple. If you are warrior, and want to see high end endgame content, Tg won't get you there, or at least isn't the best way to get a raid spot.
Hopefully Blizzard will see that and change it.
yeah it's kinda annoying
maybe move it down to tier 2 arms or fury or something who knows
Hurrr, your point #2 sucks balls because they've said they want Warriors, Paladins, DKs and Druids to be equal as MTs therefore "one warrior will be tanking" is stupid. Whether the current status reflects that or not really doesn't matter because it's beta and because Warriors haven't gotten any changes in like 3 patches and are due for a lot. His point, and even if you did read the blue post you clearly didn't comprehend it, was that they don't want Titan's Grip to be a DPS decrease. You might have also missed the part where they're very much looking at consolidating raid debuffs, like Blood Frenzy, across classes.
Or, just for an example, tack it onto an already existing Feral Druid talent, like they've given Unholy DKs Curse of Elements debuff that won't stack with it, and a Windfury buff that won't stack with Windfury.
i guess that's fair but still: awwww
No, it will, just that DKs are getting a buff in Frost that acts as Windfury totem but does not stack with Windfury totem.
i guess i should get my shaman to 70 one of these days
or craft my warrior another tiered sword (because hot damn a lionheart executioner with a lionheart champion OH would look bitching)
So I'm going to say you should get the cloak from Steam Vaults for tanking as I remember it being pretty solid. The reputation rewards from Keepers of Time gives a good legs and a sweet enchant. Keep the Kopesh because as already said, you want something fast as a tank. If you don't have your Of the Bold set or the Blacksmith Fel Steel set those are great ways to turn your slots from green to blue. SSO rep will fix your shield/sword unless you grind Heroic Mechanar for a Sun Eater and the rep reward shield. Grind Shadow Labrynith for the Trinket Blackheart drops because 32 defense is no joke.
Additionally, one of your first badge rewards (IMO) should be the wrists because they have expertise on them which I found to be awesome for getting rid of those nasty parries.
I can. I have a particular build in mind, there's a bunch of stuff I love in the arms tree as well as the fury tree and I want to have both.
I see myself speccing this unsightly spec when I get to 80. The warrior "hybrid" spec is so much damn fun. No group buffs except for TC but whatever. I mostly PvP on my warrior anyways.
edit: Does anyone know if MS and Bloodthirst share a cooldown?
yes
edit: They've said they might even give Last Stand a glyph that would stick it at 20% instead of 30% but give it a 2 min cooldown, which would be fucking awesome as hell.
I am so sad right now. Time to demolish that build.
i was thinking the same thing until i learned they shared a cooldown
GG Blizzard, crushing dreams since 2005.
this will be great!"
dreams: crushed
Well, I don't slam or HS anyways.
I think it might have been time to do that before this conversation. That's... an odd spec. You're missing the great talents in each tree. =/
looks like a lot preference stuff really
Everything I've read suggests they're essentially furthering the current setup, where warriors are more or less your best option for general-purpose tanking, and that paladins and druids [and eventually DKs] can main-tank, but that you're best off keeping your Prot warrior around, even if he's not the default MT. You're confusing the relative buffing of not-warrior tanks with Prot warriors' being made obsolete.
If what you're describing were true, what would be the purpose in ever bringing a warrior as anything but a Blood Frenzy / Sunder-bot? Paladins can throw on healy gear and toss out anemic Flashes or Holy Lights until they OOM themselves, as well as keep up a Light or Wisdom; Feral druids can do respectable DPS as well as provide a substantial buff to any melee DPS group; Death Knights will ostensibly be able to DPS, too. I think Blizzard sees all this and will definitely keep Prot warriors competitive just because: A) they don't bring much to a raid but the ability to tank well, and
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/8765643774-tanking-in-wrath-of-the-lich-king.html
Hmm, that's interesting. He fills in some of the blanks between the Blue posts I've read.
I guess at this point I can only say from intuition / speculation that there'll definitely still be a spot in every 25-man for a Protection warrior.