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Hans Reiser: Murder Case

iamtheaznmaniamtheaznman Registered User
edited July 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
In case you haven't read the latest blog by TB, he mentions this little snippet at the end of it.
(CW)TB wrote:
- This article at Wired, about a man I've never heard of, is the most fascinating thing I've read in months.

I agree with TB, it is one of the most fascinating things I have read in a long time.

I think that there is a lot of emphasis on the fact that he did play "violent" video game, at least violent to the general public. Games like Battlefield to me don't seem like they would even be close to causing homicidal tendencies, let alone more violent games that he could have been playing; e.g. Manhunt (But that’s for another thread).

Although there are some suspicious circumstances (The passenger seat being missing being a big one), I feel like a lot of them can be explained. Masking tape and garbage bags are used in old cars like that many a times, I know I own an old Volvo and I have garbage bags and duct tape because my windows sometimes leak. The blood has yet to be determined to be old or current, but really is a drop of blood on his car circumstantial, especially when they don't have a time frame? Another big thing they talk about is the "dodging of police" which he explains that his father told him to dodge unmarked cars because they could be part of the mafia. Another one is the books about homicide, and honestly if a cop raided my history they would see a billion links to crimelibrary.com; its not because I am contemplating murder, I just find the cases to be very interesting, I mean all those real life cases have the exact same stories as fictitious summer thrillers; murder, deception, plots, etc. Although he does have a lot of eccentric tendencies, what computer geek doesn't? This holds true especially with one as genius as Hans. Although the article does mention his friend Strugeon who has confessed to murders in the past, I just don't believe it is plausible for him to do it, since it seems like he genuinely cared for Nina, although his new found religion does seem a little kooky to me.

I honestly think that Nina planned it all and escaped back to Russia and is there right now with her kids. I have done some more research on this matter and found out that Nina applied her kids for citizenship in Russia, her son's just two months before she disappeared. Also I assume from the article that she was a Russian Mail Order Bride, which seems shady to me; on a side note: does anybody have information on the shadiness of Russian Mail Order Bride services and whether this theory seems plausible?

Discuss and feel free to post your own theories.

iamtheaznman on

Posts

  • NintoNinto Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Yeah I'd have to say I agree with you - there's no body, evidence of planning by Nina, and no evidence of Hans having done anything other than be weird.

    She's in Russia, and I'm sure there's another Wolf out there looking for a piece of her action.

    Ninto on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Or in a fit of rage after discovering she was planning on leaving him, he murdered her and his kids and then attempted to get away with it? Scott Peterson, Chris Benoit, OJ Simpson, it's not really a rare thing for a guy to do sadly.

    Preacher on
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  • NisslNissl Registered User
    edited June 2007
    Stolen, hidden car (no explanation), passenger seat missing (no explanation), clumsily washed car, blood in the car, strong motive?

    Plus initial eyewitness testimony of her son, later recanted, the books on murder, and the evidence of planning to flee the country.

    Based on the evidence presented I would almost certainly convict (and I find it a little frightening that that's not the overwhelming reaction around various parts of the web). But I don't have the whole story and neither does anyone else here. It was exceptionally poor judgment on the part of his defense lawyers to allow that article to be printed, because he comes off as paranoid, angry, and having strong violent tendencies.

    Nissl on
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  • iamtheaznmaniamtheaznman Registered User
    edited June 2007
    I don't remember mention of a stolen car. There was one drop of blood in the car, wouldn't there be more in a murder?

    I don't know, I don't think its as clear cut a conviction as you put it out to be.

    iamtheaznman on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Well there would be more if he killed her in the car, if he killed her somewhere else (or by less violent means, strangulation, suffocation, poisoning) without a body there wouldn't be a way to figure the method of death.

    Preacher on
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  • NisslNissl Registered User
    edited June 2007
    I don't remember mention of a stolen car.

    Stolen was perhaps a bit of a shorthand description. It didn't sound like he told his mother beforehand.
    wired wrote:
    Reiser's Honda Civic CRX has also disappeared. Beverly, Reiser's mother, reports that her son took her car, a Honda hybrid, the weekend Nina disappeared. At the time, Beverly, 64, was in the Nevada desert at the Burning Man festival.
    There was one drop of blood in the car
    wired wrote:
    The front passenger seat has recently been removed. The floor is soaked, as if it had been washed. There are heavy-duty garbage bags, cloth towels, masking tape....


    He better have a damn good explanation for those things at his trial, and the supposedly sympathetic wired article presented nothing. There's "any doubt" and then there's "reasonable doubt."

    Nissl on
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  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Reiser does seem pretty crazy and guilty. however sturgeon also appears to be batfuck insane and he was hanging around apparently....

    also if Reisers mental condition has really deteriorated as much as that article implies while he's been in prison, i doubt he'd be able to effectively defend himself now even if he is innocent

    taliosfalcon on
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  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    People who are wickedly smart sometimes have trouble holding onto sanity.

    Yar on
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    That Wired article wasn't especially sympathetic; it did a good job detailing the case from all angles. Frankly I could see any one of Reisner, Nina and Sturgeon being guilty.

    From the way this is being presented and comments here, is this a "defend the fellow geek and violent games!!" case on the internet? If so, those geeks are wildly mistaken. The man thinks that he has to raise his son to hone his survival skills on violent video-games and avoiding the 'wimp' nature of the city.

    Man's fucked up if he plays Battlefield games with his 7 year old.

    Æthelred on
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  • TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Man, you can see people realistically choke on their own blood in battlefield with sound effects and everything? I must not have had my settings turned up all the way.

    Tarranon on
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  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Man, you can see people realistically choke on their own blood in battlefield with sound effects and everything? I must not have had my settings turned up all the way.

    The article doesn't say anything about you being able to realistically see all that, just that it's there. What kind of thoughtless dick are you to play a game with your kid where you shoot people in the face?

    Æthelred on
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  • TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Man, you can see people realistically choke on their own blood in battlefield with sound effects and everything? I must not have had my settings turned up all the way.

    The article doesn't say anything about you being able to realistically see all that, just that it's there. What kind of thoughtless dick are you to play a game with your kid where you shoot people in the face?

    and when shot characters collapse to the ground and choke on their own blood, realistic sound effects included

    and when shot characters collapse to the ground and choke on their own blood, realistic sound effects included


    and when shot characters collapse to the ground and choke on their own blood, realistic sound effects included

    But for the record I do think he's off his rocker if he thinks playing that game with a kid would be healthy for him.

    Tarranon on
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  • AgemAgem Registered User
    edited June 2007
    From the way this is being presented and comments here, is this a "defend the fellow geek and violent games!!" case on the internet? If so, those geeks are wildly mistaken. The man thinks that he has to raise his son to hone his survival skills on violent video-games and avoiding the 'wimp' nature of the city.

    Man's fucked up if he plays Battlefield games with his 7 year old.
    With everything about their kids Reiser seems obsessed with the culture of manhood, thinking he's training his children to survive by playing violent videogames, and just flat out nuts: "Should the government be keeping me from showing my son how to direct brave goblin suicide bombers against their elven oppressors?" He's clearly socially maladjusted, to say the least. I don't agree that playing something like Battlefield with a child is necessarily harmful in and of itself, but it's clearly something he should have thought through a little better, and in a case like this, where the kid spends all day drawing soldiers and spends all night having nightmares about monsters, it's pretty clear that it was harmful and he should have realized it.

    If we just heard these details about Reiser, I'd say he was obviously guilty, although there's also his crazy friend confessing to killing eight other people. The problem with this is that there are apparently so many fucked up people involved in the case. But based solely on the article, I'm still going with "Reiser did it." The big thing to me is the car with the missing seat and heavily cleaned surfaces. Three options here: it has something to do with the murder, it has nothing to do with the murder, or Sturgeon is framing him. If it has nothing to do with the murder he should be able to explain why the seat's missing. If Sturgeon's framing I don't see why isn't constantly accusing him of framing him - this is a guy who accused his wife of having memories artificially inserted into his son's brain. He's obviously paranoid. The fact that he just chooses to ignore the question sets off alarm bells, in my mind.

    But I'm going off a Wired article stylistically written for dramatic effect, so who knows. It's a good read, in any case.

    Agem on
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Man, you can see people realistically choke on their own blood in battlefield with sound effects and everything? I must not have had my settings turned up all the way.

    The article doesn't say anything about you being able to realistically see all that, just that it's there. What kind of thoughtless dick are you to play a game with your kid where you shoot people in the face?

    and when shot characters collapse to the ground and choke on their own blood, realistic sound effects included

    Thanks for the large font, but you haven't read that quotation properly at all. Hint: it doesn't say the visual part is realistic. I haven't played Battlefield, but I've played plenty of games where you get the enemy to perform that animation where they sink to their knees and clutch their throat gurgling. That's what Wired are describing.

    Æthelred on
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  • TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Man, you can see people realistically choke on their own blood in battlefield with sound effects and everything? I must not have had my settings turned up all the way.

    The article doesn't say anything about you being able to realistically see all that, just that it's there. What kind of thoughtless dick are you to play a game with your kid where you shoot people in the face?

    and when shot characters collapse to the ground and choke on their own blood, realistic sound effects included

    Thanks for the large font, but you haven't read that quotation properly at all. Hint: it doesn't say the visual part is realistic. I haven't played Battlefield, but I've played plenty of games where you get the enemy to perform that animation where they sink to their knees and clutch their throat gurgling. That's what Wired are describing.

    Hint: I was just being snarky, there's nothing like that in battlefield, they just collapse into a heap, let's move on. Mods seem to be infraction happy today

    :tinfoil:

    Tarranon on
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  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Okay.

    One part I have problem with is Reisner's motive. What would he have got out of killing Nina? He doesn't seem to have made much effort to get the kids, and they've duly left the country and don't seem to be coming back. By Wired's account he had contact with both them and Nina before she disappeared.

    But I guess motive can go out of the picture when you're not all there in the head.

    Æthelred on
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  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I guess his brain had some corrupted sectors.

    MKR on
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2007
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Okay.

    One part I have problem with is Reisner's motive. What would he have got out of killing Nina? He doesn't seem to have made much effort to get the kids, and they've duly left the country and don't seem to be coming back. By Wired's account he had contact with both them and Nina before she disappeared.

    But I guess motive can go out of the picture when you're not all there in the head.

    From what I've read so far, his motive could be as paper-thin as "she made me angry." I mean, he doesn't seem too stable, and his cognition doesn't come across as exactly lucid.

    Wonder_Hippie on
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  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Okay.

    One part I have problem with is Reisner's motive. What would he have got out of killing Nina? He doesn't seem to have made much effort to get the kids, and they've duly left the country and don't seem to be coming back. By Wired's account he had contact with both them and Nina before she disappeared.

    But I guess motive can go out of the picture when you're not all there in the head.

    From what I've read so far, his motive could be as paper-thin as "she made me angry." I mean, he doesn't seem too stable, and his cognition doesn't come across as exactly lucid.

    That's what I was thinking. He was cheated on, and then he lost his kids. Both of those were caused by his relationship with Nina, so I'm sure that if he did it, he did it out of pure anger and/or hatred.

    But two drops of blood and a missing car does not make Reiser a murderer. I would be surprised if he wasn't, but as they say, "innocent until proven guilty."

    Zombiemambo on
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  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Agem wrote: »
    With everything about their kids Reiser seems obsessed with the culture of manhood, thinking he's training his children to survive by playing violent videogames, and just flat out nuts: "Should the government be keeping me from showing my son how to direct brave goblin suicide bombers against their elven oppressors?" He's clearly socially maladjusted, to say the least.

    Yeah. I don't disagree with him, but he probably could have found a better way to phrase that, given the times that we live in.

    Marty81 on
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The only thing that bugs me is Sturgeon's little "I killed eight people once" thing that's now sealed and gag-ordered.

    Without knowing what the fuck is going on there, I really can't say anything either way.

    Daedalus on
  • FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY WAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Shooting Yourself In The Foot 101
    Taught by Professor Hans Reiser
    "Should the government be keeping me from showing my son how to direct brave goblin suicide bombers against their elven oppressors?" he asks.

    Fallout on
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  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited June 2007
    The whole "There were only two drops of blood" theory is negated by the fact that the car was totally soaked. I think that there was a hell of a lot of blood in there, but it was washed away.

    Picardathon on
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    Marty81 on
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited June 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?
    Lumowhatsis?

    Picardathon on
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?
    Lumowhatsis?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminol

    Marty81 on
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    That's probably how they found the two drops of blood.

    saggio on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?
    Lumowhatsis?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminol

    It's what Phoenix Wright uses in his investigations.

    Drez on
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    That's probably how they found the two drops of blood.

    But shouldn't there be shitloads of blood, or at least shitloads of evidence of someone trying to cover up the blood?

    Marty81 on
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    That's probably how they found the two drops of blood.

    But shouldn't there be shitloads of blood, or at least shitloads of evidence of someone trying to cover up the blood?

    Not if there wasn't any blood to begin with.

    Now, before you say the inside of his seat as wet, consider for a moment just how unstable Hans Reiser is. He's a computer geek that codes file systems - you have to be just a little bit crazy to even be able to do something like that. Second, he's probably got a superiority complex (every geek I know has one), so when his father suggested he was being followed by the mob, I'm sure a part of him felt flattered and justified. If he thought he was being monitored or followed by the Russian mob, don't you think it's plausible he concluded that he might be bugged? For a computer geek, that seems like the most plausible thing. What is the #1 guaranteed things to kill every electronic? Water. Or, hell, really any liquid that can get inside and mess things up. If he thought his car was bugged, he could have attempted to wash it - debug it.

    Innocent until guilty, and all that.

    saggio on
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  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Drez wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?
    Lumowhatsis?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminol

    It's what Phoenix Wright uses in his investigations.
    I don't have the first one, and he didn't use it in justice for all.
    Or of course you could be trying to make a joke.

    Picardathon on
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2007
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    That's probably how they found the two drops of blood.

    But shouldn't there be shitloads of blood, or at least shitloads of evidence of someone trying to cover up the blood?

    Not if there wasn't any blood to begin with.

    Now, before you say the inside of his seat as wet, consider for a moment just how unstable Hans Reiser is. He's a computer geek that codes file systems - you have to be just a little bit crazy to even be able to do something like that. Second, he's probably got a superiority complex (every geek I know has one), so when his father suggested he was being followed by the mob, I'm sure a part of him felt flattered and justified. If he thought he was being monitored or followed by the Russian mob, don't you think it's plausible he concluded that he might be bugged? For a computer geek, that seems like the most plausible thing. What is the #1 guaranteed things to kill every electronic? Water. Or, hell, really any liquid that can get inside and mess things up. If he thought his car was bugged, he could have attempted to wash it - debug it.

    Innocent until guilty, and all that.
    And the missing front side passenger seat?
    There could have been a lot of blood on that as well, and Hans decided to dump it in a convienient river rather than take chances.

    Picardathon on
  • JauntyJaunty Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    That's probably how they found the two drops of blood.

    But shouldn't there be shitloads of blood, or at least shitloads of evidence of someone trying to cover up the blood?

    I would think so, but wouldn't you classify removing the passenger seat as trying to cover up blood? I wouldn't think the attack (assuming there was one) would have taken place in the car, so blood wouldn't have necessarily sprayed all over its interior.

    Jaunty on
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  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    That's probably how they found the two drops of blood.

    But shouldn't there be shitloads of blood, or at least shitloads of evidence of someone trying to cover up the blood?

    Not if there wasn't any blood to begin with.

    Now, before you say the inside of his seat as wet, consider for a moment just how unstable Hans Reiser is. He's a computer geek that codes file systems - you have to be just a little bit crazy to even be able to do something like that. Second, he's probably got a superiority complex (every geek I know has one), so when his father suggested he was being followed by the mob, I'm sure a part of him felt flattered and justified. If he thought he was being monitored or followed by the Russian mob, don't you think it's plausible he concluded that he might be bugged? For a computer geek, that seems like the most plausible thing. What is the #1 guaranteed things to kill every electronic? Water. Or, hell, really any liquid that can get inside and mess things up. If he thought his car was bugged, he could have attempted to wash it - debug it.

    Innocent until guilty, and all that.
    And the missing front side passenger seat?
    There could have been a lot of blood on that as well, and Hans decided to dump it in a convienient river rather than take chances.

    Or it could have been weight reduction to improve the gas mileage on his hybrid Civic.

    This case is troubling because we (as outside observers) really don't have a clear picture of what the hell is going on. I mean, even less clear a picture than the police do.

    Personally, I could see it going either way.

    Daedalus on
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2007
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    That's probably how they found the two drops of blood.

    But shouldn't there be shitloads of blood, or at least shitloads of evidence of someone trying to cover up the blood?

    Not if there wasn't any blood to begin with.

    Now, before you say the inside of his seat as wet, consider for a moment just how unstable Hans Reiser is. He's a computer geek that codes file systems - you have to be just a little bit crazy to even be able to do something like that. Second, he's probably got a superiority complex (every geek I know has one), so when his father suggested he was being followed by the mob, I'm sure a part of him felt flattered and justified. If he thought he was being monitored or followed by the Russian mob, don't you think it's plausible he concluded that he might be bugged? For a computer geek, that seems like the most plausible thing. What is the #1 guaranteed things to kill every electronic? Water. Or, hell, really any liquid that can get inside and mess things up. If he thought his car was bugged, he could have attempted to wash it - debug it.

    Innocent until guilty, and all that.
    And the missing front side passenger seat?
    There could have been a lot of blood on that as well, and Hans decided to dump it in a convienient river rather than take chances.

    Or it could have been weight reduction to improve the gas mileage on his hybrid Civic.

    This case is troubling because we (as outside observers) really don't have a clear picture of what the hell is going on. I mean, even less clear a picture than the police do.

    Personally, I could see it going either way.
    Especially since all three people are so fucked up.
    I consider being on either side of a russian bride service as being fucked up, and killing eight people would get you there as well.

    Picardathon on
  • BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    That's probably how they found the two drops of blood.

    Some bleaches can cause luminol to fluoresce. If an area that had blood was cleaned with bleach there is a very good chance that there wouldn't be any evidence of blood left unless it had been absorbed into a location that the bleach failed to penetrate.

    Barrakketh on
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  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Barrakketh wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    That's probably how they found the two drops of blood.

    Some bleaches can cause luminol to fluoresce. If an area that had blood was cleaned with bleach there is a very good chance that there wouldn't be any evidence of blood left unless it had been absorbed into a location that the bleach failed to penetrate.

    If he cleaned the area with bleach, though, it'd be obvious from the luminol testing, and he'd better have a damn good reason for doing so. But I'm not getting the impression that they tested it at all.

    Marty81 on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    Barrakketh wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    So they didn't try testing the soaked car with luminol? At all?

    That's probably how they found the two drops of blood.

    Some bleaches can cause luminol to fluoresce. If an area that had blood was cleaned with bleach there is a very good chance that there wouldn't be any evidence of blood left unless it had been absorbed into a location that the bleach failed to penetrate.

    If he cleaned the area with bleach, though, it'd be obvious from the luminol testing, and he'd better have a damn good reason for doing so. But I'm not getting the impression that they tested it at all.
    No matter the circumstances, it is not illegal to clean your car.
    NB: There are a few exceptions. Shut up, I don't care.

    Fencingsax on
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  • jydajyda Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Personally, I could see it going either way.

    Same here. Though I think there was a lot more evidence (physical and circumstancial)/motive in the O.J. Simpson case. We don't even know if she's dead!

    jyda on
  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I just read up on this case, and the deeper you go the weirder it gets. Some of those pieces of circumstantial evidence are a bit less than they seem. The theory is that he killed her on Sept. 3rd, but he is recorded as purchasing the murder books on Sept. 8th. Also, I've heard that he was in a traffic stop with the car in question a couple weeks after Nina went missing and the officer said that he thought that the front seat was still there and didn't remember noticing anything unusual about it.

    The point of the front seat is pretty weird though. If you were carting around a body, the front seat of the car doesn't seem like it would be a very good place to put it, as it would be rather easy to notice. The trunk would make a lot more sense. Perhaps if she was killed by him somehow there was interaction that contaminated the front seat, but it seems like there would be a lot more likely places for that sort of evidence to be present, or more examples of him cleaning things.

    And given how weird all the people involved in this story are, it is hard to pin down if there was even a murder at all, much less who did it. Nina was definitely a dubious character, from the very beginning. The circumstances of their meeting and the immediate conception of the child leading to marriage suggest that she could have been using him to get citizenship, and then there are the suggestions of her bilking the business and cheating with madman #2. The children disappearing to Russia before a trial and being blocked from returning makes it even weirder.

    It seems like there is a pretty real chance that he offed her, but there is so much doubt in this story that with the details that are available it should be hard to get a conviction. Maybe in Texas.

    Savant on
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