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Guitar playing: Learning scales, theory?
TxdoHawk
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So, digging through accumulated knowledge, I came across this piece of advice:
This seems like an interesting way to supplement my practice, but what I want to know is, what should I be doing with these scales? The impression I get, is that in addition to the basic physical practice inherent from doing this, knowing what's in a particular scale is a major step towards being able to easily noodle around a fretboard and come across strings of notes that sound well together. That's all well and good, but my knowledge of music theory is nil. So, where can I find easy to understand information on how to put knowledge of these scales to good use? Or am I already way in over my head, and in need of some basics on theory?
DrDizaster wrote: »Learn scales. Lots of them. Start with the major, open position ones.
Buy a metronome or use that website, and every day do the following:
First, learn a new scale. Learning C Major in Open position counts as one scale, learning C Major in 8th position counts as another.
Turn on the metronome. Start out at 60 BPM. This is painfully slow. Most popular music is written at 120 BPM. But start at 60. On day two, go to 61. Then 62. Increment by 1 BPM every single day. Play every scale you know, forwards and backwards, until you play it flawlessly.
This is the most dry, boring possible way to absolutely master every scale you'll ever need to learn, and within a year you'll be playing faster and more accurately than anyone you know. If you really, really want to get good, you'll stick with it though, despite the fact that this technique will often make you absolutely furious, and most of the rest of the time leave you pretty bored.
This seems like an interesting way to supplement my practice, but what I want to know is, what should I be doing with these scales? The impression I get, is that in addition to the basic physical practice inherent from doing this, knowing what's in a particular scale is a major step towards being able to easily noodle around a fretboard and come across strings of notes that sound well together. That's all well and good, but my knowledge of music theory is nil. So, where can I find easy to understand information on how to put knowledge of these scales to good use? Or am I already way in over my head, and in need of some basics on theory?
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I'd say so.
Start from the beginning- very, very basic theory. I'd advise against skipping steps. You don't need to have encyclopedic knowledge, but you don't just want to say "ok, C chord backing... play notes in C scale!"
You want to understand it.
Just Google music theory... there are tons of free sources. Sadly though, I didn't learn from any of them, so I can't recommend any... I only posted to say yes, you definitely want to learn the rudiments of basic theory.
What this does is forces you to learn the ENTIRE neck of the guitar rather than depend on the first five frets. To spicen things up a bit you can play the scales by thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths, etc.
I think he was asking more what use he could put scales to, rather than how to practice them.
I'm not that great at guitar myself, but not only does practicing scales (generally) improve your technique, speed and accuracy, but if you know scales, modes, and their numerous shapes, it gives you a tremendous ability to improvise solos in a jazz or rock setting. Also, they just give you a generally good idea of what sounds "good," so there.
I think Cardboard Tube mentioned it a while ago, but some books that really help you understand music theory and scales and modes and whatnot are Creative Guitar 1 and 2 by Guthrie Govan. They are really fantastic books.
You should learn five shapes of pentatonic (mandatory for everyone) and seven shapes of three note per string major scales. These are both moveable shapes, fuck "open C major".
Basically you want to play a scale that contains intervals which are the same as (beginner) complement (intermediate) or clash in a cool way (expert) with the intervals in the chords you are playing over. Best thing to do, get a book on theory. A good one is Creative Guitar 1 by Guthrie Govan.
I am all about investing in education, but my main concern is readability. As someone with pretty much zero musical training or knowledge, am I going to be able to understand the book?
it is the best guitar book of all time.
It is so useful, one of the best and easiest to understand explanations of everything
edit: this being creative guitar1
Or is it just a comprehensive, interspersed thing with two volumes?
I played sax from when I was in 5th grade through highschool (and still intend to start playing again... life got in the way, etc). If there's anything I regret about how/what I learned it was lack of music theory. At the time I didn't really understand the what/why of it, I just wanted to play. I was excellent at playing. Great tone, blazing fast, accurate fingers, and could even accurately play the full altisimo register. I could play the fuck out of any song I had the music for dead on. You know what I couldn't do, though? Write my own fucking music. Being able to play the shit out of some Charlie Parker is cool and people respect that, but if that's all you can do (on the sax, that is) you aren't going to cut it as a teacher, song writer, or in your own band. That is a lot of why I stopped playing, as I couldn't write my own music, there really wasn't much point in playing after I left highschool. Playing songs someone else wrote to myself in my bedroom really wasn't much fun. I'm 27 now and regret it and think about it and wish I had done things differently probably weekly.
Wait....
Altisimo doesn't have a "full register". At least, according to pretty much every orchestration text I've studied and every orchestration class I've taken, Altisimo has a normal and reccomended range, but the technical range of altisimo doesn't have any discernible limits yet.
Anyways, I agree with what Tube said about learning movable positions. It's the same thing with chords... sure, you learn C and D and G and E and A without using bar chords... but then when you're playing... at least I almost never use non-bar chords when playing.. at least not in rock. Folk I use them more, but in general movable positions for everything are good.
Eventually you should know how to play all variations on all scales and chords and whatnot, but if you're beginning, try to learn what you'll get the most use out of.
I'm really shady on woodwinds, so I may be wrong too, but I was always taught that Altissimo is the range that's "higher than that other crap" on sax. Brass is my power instrument family.
Of course... as a composer, I fully support musicians having other people writing music for them...
Especially compared to "put your fingers here, then pick these strings. Hey it's a song!"
I'm doing the same thing with upright bass. I've got books of classical music, some jazz, but I've also got a few hardcore technique books. The technique books are not interesting to listen to the pieces, but that's intentional; it's to work on your fingers and your ears.
I didn't realize the 3-note per string major scales were so useful. I need to look into these.
I also found that after the Pentatonic, you can easily learn the blues scale since if you know Minor Pent, blues scale just has one extra note and I found it a little more fun to play then just straight Pentatonic.
Problem with this approach is that classical guitar is a relatively new phenomenon, and writing for classical guitar is a nightmare even if it's just purely solo(though it is a little better), so there's not that much of a base of music to draw from. On guitar, etude books and the like are the way to go, since most of your classical literature will be cello pieces and whatnot, which while they grow technique, playing exercises specifically written for guitar is a little better.
Classical music is at least written down, on a staff, and is readable without playing an instrument. I mean, anyone who reads music will recall at some point stopping playing, looking at the staff to see what's really going on, and then playing it again. With rock music, since most of it was never committed to a fixed form and tabs are just a shortcut method, you can play songs without even knowing what notes you're playing, or what chords or keys you're using.
Yup, happens all the time. It is definitely not normalized... it sucks when you're playing with guys of varying theory knowledge.
"Hey dude, what key is that in?"
"Um... it starts on the seventh fret... what key's that?"
I also just started yesterday with learning the guitar. I had gotten one about 4 years back but never had time to get into it.
I have taken your advice and am buying Creative Guitar 1. I have been learning to play scales slowly, that being the only way I can make them sound clear at this point.
One problem I have is with picking. I can't seem to do alternate picking, or even regular picking without my pick being I guess "caught" in the string. I feel I am doing something wrong. After maybe the third time I try and pick a string in a row it gets caught and sounds terrible.
Any advice?
That second guy is me
Except I would know which note the seventh fret would be, at least
I find it hard to motivate myself to learn theory but the tidbits I do know are so helpful for writing songs that I feel I should. Motivation is probably the biggest problem for getting past basic guitar skills.
I understand scale theory and building chords but lord if it doesn't take me awhile to find the notes on the fretboard. Hell, pluck a note on a fret and watch my squirm.
I've got a recommended octave exercise for learning the fretboard but it's slow going.
Not sure I'd agree with that.
Economy picking is for advanced players, IE those that can already alternate pick very, very well.
I'm not so sure I'd go with that.... but I don't think it's bad advice.
There are a number of virtuousi in each style, and they can all attain blinding speed. It is my personal opinion that directional (economy) picking is, sans the habits instilled by traditional teachers, easier to pick up. I was self-taught before I began lessons, and I instinctively felt comfortable with directional picking... it made, and still makes, the most sense to me.
Some- even stalwart defenders of directional picking- insist that alternate picking can provide a more forceful and consistently rhythmic sound. I've heard, more times than I care to recall, about the power in upstroke dynamics. However, I believe that any loss in force/time with directional picking is a shortcoming of the player, not the style.
I believe directional picking is a better style for a very simple reason: the shortest distance between any two points is a straight line, and any intended embellishment (set pattern) will only dampen speed. It's debatable whether it dampens tone. But will I argue the point with an alternate picker with more skill than myself? Nope.
Like I said, though, Tube's advice is sound if only because so many resources revolve around alternate picking... so it's not really worth arguing about.
At any rate, one thing is for sure. You can't be a serious musician without knowing theory or at least an intuitive grasp of it. I know there are all sorts of composers and famous musicians who zomgdidntreadmusic, but I don't think you should count on being one of them.
This Creative Guitar 1 sounds like a good book to have, but is it only for people who already have some experience with guitar? I've never played and I want to learn, is it a good idea to start learning theory now or should I just pick up guitar for dummies or go to cyberfret and use their lessons?
I do want to get a teacher at some point, but I can't afford it right now, so I have to go with a book.
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I thought the book started with the basics and made it interesting as well. I bet it'll benefit you more than guitar for dummies.
This is by far the best theory book I have ever owned. It is a little dry, but it contains a ton of excellent examples, a ton of exercises, and you will learn so much from it. Reading this book saved my butt in Theory II.