G&T's Cluttered Index

I really hate the current setup with the E3 subform and the MMO subforum on top. Combined with the announcements and stickies, I can see a total of two threads at full screen without scrolling down (1280x800 on a laptop). Can we maybe move those to the bottom of the page instead of the top? Or just put them in subheaders in the master index?

Aroduc on

Posts

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited July 2007
    I agree actually. The E3 forum is only up for a week, but it's still cluttered. If only the subforums thing was collapseable

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    We're not moving them to the bottom of the page. They wouldn't get any traffic. And we just moved MMO from the index to inside G&T to clear up the subforum.

    I suggest you buy a mouse with a scroll wheel.

    Thanatos on
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited July 2007
    I like the continued use of we, as though this is a burden that will be shared by various people who are not Ramius.

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • DrZiplockDrZiplock Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I don't know..the entire thing seems pretty cluttered and unkempt. More clicking and wading through things to get to where you're going now that the MMO and WoW forums are inside G&T.

    Though, it may be cleaner on the code and server side of things.

    Yay for my scroll wheel, I guess.

    DrZiplock on
    "zip, i dunno what it is about you, but there's something very cat-like about your face. i can't really place it. you'd make a good mountain lion." Hail, Satan!
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I was going to say we could clean up the stickies in G&T but we did that awhile ago and only have THREE left.

    Accualt on
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    Aroduc wrote: »
    I really hate the current setup with the E3 subform and the MMO subforum on top. Combined with the announcements and stickies, I can see a total of two threads at full screen without scrolling down (1280x800 on a laptop). Can we maybe move those to the bottom of the page instead of the top? Or just put them in subheaders in the master index?

    I see 4 at 1024 by 768. Are you sure you are not doing something wrong?
    I have a scroll wheel, woo!

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    We are the skeletons in our closets.
    We are the monsters under our beds.
  • darleysamdarleysam UKRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I like the continued use of we, as though this is a burden that will be shared by various people who are not Ramius.

    hive mind?

    darleysam on
    forumsig.png
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I like the continued use of we, as though this is a burden that will be shared by various people who are not Ramius.
    I figured the first "we" was pretty much a no-brainer. The second "we" was objectively true.

    Thanatos on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited July 2007
    Aroduc wrote: »
    I really hate the current setup with the E3 subform and the MMO subforum on top. Combined with the announcements and stickies, I can see a total of two threads at full screen without scrolling down (1280x800 on a laptop). Can we maybe move those to the bottom of the page instead of the top? Or just put them in subheaders in the master index?

    I see 4 at 1024 by 768. Are you sure you are not doing something wrong?
    I have a scroll wheel, woo!

    dsfsdgx9.th.jpg
    Thanatos wrote: »
    We're not moving them to the bottom of the page. They wouldn't get any traffic. And we just moved MMO from the index to inside G&T to clear up the subforum.

    I suggest you buy a mouse with a scroll wheel.

    The vast majority of the initially presented real estate really should not be geared towards a small minority of the visitors.

    I like the collapsable idea, or just subindex them on the main index instead of within G&T itself.

    There are other things that could be done too. Suck the "Infractions" post into the rules (especially since it's not comprehensive with the rules for each forum anyway). Remove the redundant links to the index above the subforum list, set fire/unsticky to the erstwhile UK PAX thread. Etc.

    Aroduc on
  • Ben BotBen Bot Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Maybe Games and Technology could be just a forum group, then have forums within that group.

    Example:

    -Games and Technology - Forum Group
    ----Sub-forums----
    Games General Discussion
    Technology
    MMO Extraveganza
    E3 Forum

    Just a thought.

    Ben Bot on
    stache.jpg
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Aroduc wrote: »
    The vast majority of the initially presented real estate really should not be geared towards a small minority of the visitors.

    I like the collapsable idea, or just subindex them on the main index instead of within G&T itself.

    There are other things that could be done too. Suck the "Infractions" post into the rules (especially since it's not comprehensive with the rules for each forum anyway). Remove the redundant links to the index above the subforum list, set fire/unsticky to the erstwhile UK PAX thread. Etc.
    You... you think a "small minority" of the visitors to G&T play MMOs?

    I mean, I'm not even sure it's a minority, let alone a small one.

    Thanatos on
  • LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    We're not moving them to the bottom of the page. They wouldn't get any traffic. And we just moved MMO from the index to inside G&T to clear up the subforum.

    I suggest you buy a mouse with a scroll wheel.

    So everyone who reads G&T should be inconvenienced on every single page? The E3 forum needs to be at the top because E3 doesn't last very long, but once it goes, the subforums should go at the bottom. People will realise to post there.

    Not everyone has high-resolution monitors, or views G&T in full-screen (hello all Mac users).

    I'm not going to stamp my feet and say it's unfair, but it is very inconvenient and really makes navigating the forum a whole bunch more difficult. You don't expect to have to scroll down pages on the BBC News just to see what the latest news is.

    Information ninja edit: At a standard window size on my Mac, I start out seeing four threads that aren't the subforums or stickies. That ain't right.

    Lewisham on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited July 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    The vast majority of the initially presented real estate really should not be geared towards a small minority of the visitors.

    I like the collapsable idea, or just subindex them on the main index instead of within G&T itself.

    There are other things that could be done too. Suck the "Infractions" post into the rules (especially since it's not comprehensive with the rules for each forum anyway). Remove the redundant links to the index above the subforum list, set fire/unsticky to the erstwhile UK PAX thread. Etc.
    You... you think a "small minority" of the visitors to G&T play MMOs?

    I mean, I'm not even sure it's a minority, let alone a small one.

    It has around 10% of the traffic of G&T, and any major events or happenings end up in G&T anyway. Hell, if you go back to the "is the MMO forum a failure?" half the respondants said yes. Ergo, I think it's a safe assumption that well under half of the G&T folks use it.

    Aroduc on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Lewisham wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    We're not moving them to the bottom of the page. They wouldn't get any traffic. And we just moved MMO from the index to inside G&T to clear up the subforum.

    I suggest you buy a mouse with a scroll wheel.
    So everyone who reads G&T should be inconvenienced on every single page? The E3 forum needs to be at the top because E3 doesn't last very long, but once it goes, the subforums should go at the bottom. People will realise to post there.

    Not everyone has high-resolution monitors, or views G&T in full-screen (hello all Mac users).

    I'm not going to stamp my feet and say it's unfair, but it is very inconvenient and really makes navigating the forum a whole bunch more difficult. You don't expect to have to scroll down pages on the BBC News just to see what the latest news is.

    Information ninja edit: At a standard window size on my Mac, I start out seeing four threads that aren't the subforums or stickies. That ain't right.
    Are we seriously to the point where having to scroll down an extra half-inch is "very inconvenient" and a "bunch more difficult?"

    I mean, really, if the MMO forum weren't there you'd be all the way up to... five... threads you'd see on the first page without scrolling. Yes, I can see how that's a tremendous difference.

    Thanatos on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    The vast majority of the initially presented real estate really should not be geared towards a small minority of the visitors.

    I like the collapsable idea, or just subindex them on the main index instead of within G&T itself.

    There are other things that could be done too. Suck the "Infractions" post into the rules (especially since it's not comprehensive with the rules for each forum anyway). Remove the redundant links to the index above the subforum list, set fire/unsticky to the erstwhile UK PAX thread. Etc.
    You... you think a "small minority" of the visitors to G&T play MMOs?

    I mean, I'm not even sure it's a minority, let alone a small one.
    It has around 10% of the traffic of G&T, and any major events or happenings end up in G&T anyway. Hell, if you go back to the "is the MMO forum a failure?" half the respondants said yes. Ergo, I think it's a safe assumption that well under half of the G&T folks use it.
    Yes, but now it includes WoW and EVE.

    Thanatos on
  • LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    I mean, really, if the MMO forum weren't there you'd be all the way up to... five... threads you'd see on the first page without scrolling. Yes, I can see how that's a tremendous difference.

    If the whole div goes; I get eight threads (not including stickys). I've just doubled the amount of useful information I see.

    It's just about OK on the first page, but it is rubbing salt into your eyes having to view it on every subsequent page as well.

    Lewisham on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited July 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Lewisham wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    We're not moving them to the bottom of the page. They wouldn't get any traffic. And we just moved MMO from the index to inside G&T to clear up the subforum.

    I suggest you buy a mouse with a scroll wheel.
    So everyone who reads G&T should be inconvenienced on every single page? The E3 forum needs to be at the top because E3 doesn't last very long, but once it goes, the subforums should go at the bottom. People will realise to post there.

    Not everyone has high-resolution monitors, or views G&T in full-screen (hello all Mac users).

    I'm not going to stamp my feet and say it's unfair, but it is very inconvenient and really makes navigating the forum a whole bunch more difficult. You don't expect to have to scroll down pages on the BBC News just to see what the latest news is.

    Information ninja edit: At a standard window size on my Mac, I start out seeing four threads that aren't the subforums or stickies. That ain't right.
    Are we seriously to the point where having to scroll down an extra half-inch is "very inconvenient" and a "bunch more difficult?"

    I mean, really, if the MMO forum weren't there you'd be all the way up to... five... threads you'd see on the first page without scrolling. Yes, I can see how that's a tremendous difference.

    Half a loaf is better than none.

    Aroduc on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Lewisham wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    I mean, really, if the MMO forum weren't there you'd be all the way up to... five... threads you'd see on the first page without scrolling. Yes, I can see how that's a tremendous difference.
    If the whole div goes; I get eight threads (not including stickys). I've just doubled the amount of useful information I see.

    It's just about OK on the first page, but it is rubbing salt into your eyes having to view it on every subsequent page as well.
    And then the next time we have a hot-topic gaming forum, it goes right back down again.

    I mean, I see no reason not to make it collapsible, but moving onto the main index because you have to scroll and that's so horribly inconvenient to you is kind of ridiculous.

    You have to scroll to see below those threads, anyhow, so what difference does it make? Does your computer not scroll, so those are the only threads you have access too?

    Thanatos on
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    The vast majority of the initially presented real estate really should not be geared towards a small minority of the visitors.

    I like the collapsable idea, or just subindex them on the main index instead of within G&T itself.

    There are other things that could be done too. Suck the "Infractions" post into the rules (especially since it's not comprehensive with the rules for each forum anyway). Remove the redundant links to the index above the subforum list, set fire/unsticky to the erstwhile UK PAX thread. Etc.
    You... you think a "small minority" of the visitors to G&T play MMOs?

    I mean, I'm not even sure it's a minority, let alone a small one.
    It has around 10% of the traffic of G&T, and any major events or happenings end up in G&T anyway. Hell, if you go back to the "is the MMO forum a failure?" half the respondants said yes. Ergo, I think it's a safe assumption that well under half of the G&T folks use it.
    Yes, but now it includes WoW and EVE.

    Wrong. EVE is apparently a special little snowflake, unless it's changed in the last few minutes.

    Me Too! on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Wiggin wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    The vast majority of the initially presented real estate really should not be geared towards a small minority of the visitors.

    I like the collapsable idea, or just subindex them on the main index instead of within G&T itself.

    There are other things that could be done too. Suck the "Infractions" post into the rules (especially since it's not comprehensive with the rules for each forum anyway). Remove the redundant links to the index above the subforum list, set fire/unsticky to the erstwhile UK PAX thread. Etc.
    You... you think a "small minority" of the visitors to G&T play MMOs?

    I mean, I'm not even sure it's a minority, let alone a small one.
    It has around 10% of the traffic of G&T, and any major events or happenings end up in G&T anyway. Hell, if you go back to the "is the MMO forum a failure?" half the respondants said yes. Ergo, I think it's a safe assumption that well under half of the G&T folks use it.
    Yes, but now it includes WoW and EVE.
    Wrong. EVE is apparently a special little snowflake, unless it's changed in the last few minutes.
    Read the EVE thread lately, or are you just talking out of your ass?

    I mean, that's rhetorical, because I already know the answer.

    Thanatos on
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2007
    I didn't read the EVE thread lately. I'm basing this off the fact that it's still sitting in G&T itself, and not the sub. If there's a post in there saying "You're moving," then, my mistake.

    Me Too! on
  • RamiusRamius Joined: July 19, 2000 Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited July 2007
    I put in the bare-minimum fix which saves at least a couple dozen pixels and brings another thread or two above the fold.

    I'll have to see what else I can do without losing some of the (desirable) advertising features of subforum-listings being top-of-the-page. I might be able to get you another thread or two, perhaps.

    Ramius on
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited July 2007
    EVERYTHING MUST HAPPEN RIGHT AWAY

    OTHERWISE WIGGINS WILL GET SNIDE

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2007
    Tube, like I said, I made a mistake. I hadn't read it to know that it was getting moved. My apologies.

    Me Too! on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited July 2007
    Ramius wrote: »
    I put in the bare-minimum fix which saves at least a couple dozen pixels and brings another thread or two above the fold.

    I'll have to see what else I can do without losing some of the (desirable) advertising features of subforum-listings being top-of-the-page. I might be able to get you another thread or two, perhaps.

    Danke for whatever you can pull.

    Aroduc on
  • LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    And then the next time we have a hot-topic gaming forum, it goes right back down again.

    I mean, I see no reason not to make it collapsible, but moving onto the main index because you have to scroll and that's so horribly inconvenient to you is kind of ridiculous.

    I didn't say the main index; I just want them at the bottom.

    Lewisham on
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited July 2007
    Ramius, is having the subforums section collapsable possible?

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • RamiusRamius Joined: July 19, 2000 Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited July 2007
    yeah, the forums on the main index are, and AFAIK that is "remembered" in a cookie or something. So there should be a way for subforum listings, but I haven't discovered how yet.

    Ramius on
  • LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Ramius wrote: »
    yeah, the forums on the main index are, and AFAIK that is "remembered" in a cookie or something. So there should be a way for subforum listings, but I haven't discovered how yet.

    I will kiss your wiry corn-flake encrusted beard when you work this out.

    Lewisham on
  • HarshLanguageHarshLanguage Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The subforum listing is now compacted into the G&T thread list. I like it, it doesn't waste any space. It's maybe a little dark, with the black title bar directly below, but that's really minor. Nice job.

    And I'm glad the EVE thread got moved after that short delay. Wiggin, I have to admit, has a point -- they are whining like little girls who just got their pony taken away, and talking about how they'll purposely spam up the MMO subforum with needless threads. They do think they're special. :...: Note: I am also an EVE player, but I don't agree with this. (Edit: And I see Mono has now posted to reign things in, which is good.)

    HarshLanguage on
    QSwearing_trans_smooth_small.gif
    > turn on light

    Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
  • MadtownMadtown Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The subforum listing is now compacted into the G&T thread list. I like it, it doesn't waste any space. It's maybe a little dark, with the black title bar directly below, but that's really minor. Nice job.

    And I'm glad the EVE thread got moved after that short delay. Wiggin, I have to admit, has a point -- they are whining like little girls who just got their pony taken away, and talking about how they'll purposely spam up the MMO subforum with needless threads. They do think they're special. :...: Note: I am also an EVE player, but I don't agree with this. (Edit: And I see Mono has now posted to reign things in, which is good.)

    We are special among MMOs, and that argument was made in the original "Is the MMO forum a failure?" thread and largely ignored in favor of a fair treatment across MMOs. I understand why this is being done, even if I don't agree with it, and thus there's no reason for people to throw a fit. If Tube felt a change was needed, there was no way he was going to please everyone. This was the most fair way to do it.

    And back in that thread originally, I said exactly this would happen -- we'll bitch and moan (because Eve IS a special snowflake, and this move WILL hurt that thread and community) but we're not going to actually do something stupid as a group. If anyone does, I'd hope they get IP banned and kicked from the PA corp in-game (assuming they're in it).

    Wiggin has his own reasons to be bitter about the Eve thread, and I'm not surprised he was complaining about us not getting moved instantly.

    On the original topic, I sincerely hope the subforums don't get moved to the bottom or off the G&T main page entirely. This is obviously because I'm one of the Eve players, and as it stands, our thread title still shows up at the top of G&T when it's got the latest post -- and as has been explained, a lot of people ONLY find Eve through G&T, so this is a fairly minimal change. Our thread title will still show up, hopefully that will be enough to draw people to check the thread out even if they don't play MMOs. Moving it out of the G&T page or (to a lesser extent) moving it to the bottom would make the concerns that Eve players had with the move quite a bit more evident, so I hope it doesn't happen.

    Madtown on
    Angelus Damelon - Eve
  • MidshipmanMidshipman Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Wow. It seems like every part of the PA forums that I like is being systematically destroyed. First the mods kill Linkesville like it was costing them rent or something. Now they are killing the Eve-thread. The main point of the Eve thread isn't so much for people who already play Eve to talk to each other, but for new people to learn about Eve and possibly start playing it. I imagine that about 80% of the members of Merch Industrial (PA's Eve Corporation), wouldn't have started playing eve or joined the corp without running across the Eve thread by chance.

    I got lured back into playing Eve because of the EveTV threads last year, and if I hadn't also stumbled across the main Eve thread, I would probably never have known about Merch Industrial and have quit by now.

    Midshipman on
    midshipman.jpg
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited July 2007
    the mods are evil! it is a big conspiracy! Let's completely ignore what actually happened to linksville!

    Two things have happened in as many years! Everything is being destroyed! Run! RUN! RUN!!

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited July 2007
    Seriously get over your bizarre sense of entitlement. If you don't like it here, feel free to fuck off.

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Midshipman wrote: »
    Wow. It seems like every part of the PA forums that I like is being systematically destroyed. First the mods kill Linkesville like it was costing them rent or something. Now they are killing the eve-thread. The main point of the Eve thread isn't so much for people who already play eve to talk to each other, but for new people to learn about Eve and possibly start playing it. I imagine that about 80% of the members of Merch Industrial (PA's Eve Corporation), wouldn't have started joined without running across the Eve thread by chance.

    I got lured back into playing Eve because of the EveTV threads last year, and if I hadn't also stumbled across the main Eve thread, I would probably never have known about Merch Industrial and have quit by now.
    I was actually considering starting to play EVE again until the incessant bitching, whining, "oh, god, it's the end of the world!" talk, and "let's make a bunch of threads about EVE just to be enormous assholes" posts really just turned me off the idea.

    So, thanks for saving me some wasted time.

    Thanatos on
  • MadtownMadtown Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    I was actually considering starting to play EVE again until the incessant bitching, whining, "oh, god, it's the end of the world!" talk, and "let's make a bunch of threads about EVE just to be enormous assholes" posts really just turned me off the idea.

    So, thanks for saving me some wasted time.

    I posted about the issue reasonably and calmly, but no one responded to me (now, or in the original thread). :|

    Madtown on
    Angelus Damelon - Eve
  • CymoroCymoro Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Why not make the subforums smaller links like Something Awful does:

    Games and Technology
    Subforums: MMO Games, E3 Hotness

    Then inside, you get rid of the new post images next to the listings for the forums up top. Really, it's a bit weird for there to be an indicator of whether or not an entire forum had one new post.

    Cymoro on
    i am perpetual, i make the country clean
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited July 2007
    Madtown wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    I was actually considering starting to play EVE again until the incessant bitching, whining, "oh, god, it's the end of the world!" talk, and "let's make a bunch of threads about EVE just to be enormous assholes" posts really just turned me off the idea.

    So, thanks for saving me some wasted time.

    I posted about the issue reasonably and calmly, but no one responded to me (now, or in the original thread). :|

    what you're posting about has nothing to do with the topic though. so, locked.

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Cymoro wrote: »
    Why not make the subforums smaller links like Something Awful does:

    Games and Technology
    Subforums: MMO Games, E3 Hotness

    Then inside, you get rid of the new post images next to the listings for the forums up top. Really, it's a bit weird for there to be an indicator of whether or not an entire forum had one new post.
    But... then you wouldn't be able to double-click and mark all of the threads in the forum as "read." That would suck.

    Thanatos on
This discussion has been closed.