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[WoW]Patch 2.2 notes from PTR

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    dojangodojango Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Vindicator Aeus in the Aldor bank is no longer attackable by players who are members of the Scryer faction.

    What's the matter, vindicator aeus? chicken? running to mommy blizzard to keep you safe?

    What a pansy.

    dojango on
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    jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    korodullin wrote: »
    So Zul'Aman and guild banks are delayed, and VOIP isn't even in this current Test build.

    So... why are the PTRs even up right now?

    Aside from people "ooh"ing and "aah"ing over the new Paladin blessing graphics just before they purge them, that is.

    The new sound subsystem *is* up, however, and they are having to work through a number of bugs with it before they can put VOIP on top of it.

    Incremental testing, my friend. Make sure one part works before you test the next. Believe it or not, Blizzard knows what they're doing sometimes.

    jonxp on
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    ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    -Phil- wrote: »
    • Seal of Vengeance duration increased to 15 seconds. In addition, when Seal of Vengeance strikes a target that already has 5 applications you will cause instant Holy damage.

    Nice!!!!
    Instant Holy damage with 5 stakcs up! More people will be dropping their continuum blade for the Gavel of Unearthed Secrets.

    Yeah, the instant damage is in the 5 to 7 range. If you have 400+ spell damage.

    Thomamelas on
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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Septus wrote: »
    The voice system isn't even on the PTR yet. Voice chat is something I think that needed no rush to be implemented, and I think Zul'Aman testing would be better. But if the voice chat is going to take up one of these patches, I want it done as quickly as is reasonable.

    Voice chat is about as much content, as a new skin for WoW would be.

    I note the sarcasm, but I do hope they update the graphics in the future.

    Mild Confusion on
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    SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Updating the graphics will likely ruin the game, if they are going to do that they may as well make it a sequel. I lost all interest in playing Asheron's Call after they updated the graphics in that game, because it no longer had the same feel for me.

    The voice chat system could have been put off for months or even years. Heck it could have waited until the next expansion, instead they decided to delay content for something that is not really needed.

    Seg on
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    ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Seg wrote: »
    Updating the graphics will likely ruin the game, if they are going to do that they may as well make it a sequel. I lost all interest in playing Asheron's Call after they updated the graphics in that game, because it no longer had the same feel for me.

    The voice chat system could have been put off for months or even years. Heck it could have waited until the next expansion, instead they decided to delay content for something that is not really needed.

    There seems to be this belief that working on one feature always comes at the expense of another. Simply throwing more developers at a single problem doesn't reduce the time it takes to solve a problem. This is true of any type of development. You can have a dev team doing X, another doing Y, a third doing Z. Unless X depends on Z, then the progress of one group doesn't delay another. But combining the three groups to do X can actually make it take longer.

    Thomamelas on
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    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    They chose to delay the content because they're Blizzard and the content would have been delayed anyway.

    Opty on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Septus wrote: »
    The voice system isn't even on the PTR yet. Voice chat is something I think that needed no rush to be implemented, and I think Zul'Aman testing would be better. But if the voice chat is going to take up one of these patches, I want it done as quickly as is reasonable.

    Voice chat is about as much content, as a new skin for WoW would be.

    I note the sarcasm, but I do hope they update the graphics in the future.

    Heh, I didn't even mean graphics, I meant the UI, the combat bars and skill bars, being reskinned.

    Re: Thomamelas:
    It's not even as much of an issue of this being a 2.x,but the speed of content. If you follow the history, content patches have been progressively farther and farther apart. Even IF the content release was what it ought to be, I'd still say a poor standard was set early on, setting unrealistic expectations.

    I don't, however, think that the content release has not been too slow. I'm not even saying we need a new instance every patch. I actually liked the Ogri'la content, little things like this make a difference, and I have played MMOs with monthly patches that gave a modest amount of content, but it was constant.

    Edit: And let's not forget that Blizz specifically said, after the spring 2005 wait(3 months or so), that the time between major content patches would never be that long again, and they have broken that record, multiple times.

    Septus on
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    SaerisSaeris Borb Enthusiast flapflapflapflapRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I think what he's saying is that they could've had this dev team working on something else, something more relevant. Implement guild banks or something. Unless they have a team of sound devs that they specifically formed for this task, it seems like the development time could've been put to use on something much more useful and practical. As it is right now, they're just duplicating functionality that most people already HAVE, and in a format that's less featureful than that other incarnation. That's not an efficient use of programming resources.

    Saeris on
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    jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    "Most" people don't already have it. I'm not sure who you play with, but I've been in a total of one PUG where there was a vent available for use that I didn't have to provide. Having voice chat with no configuration, alt-tabbing, etc needed, where you can see who's talking and when in game is something that *no one* has and would have been immensely useful a number of times while I've been playing.

    If you're talking about all the big guilds, then yeah, they all have a voice server. Casual players? No. We don't. But it sure would be nice to use.

    jonxp on
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    ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Septus wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    The voice system isn't even on the PTR yet. Voice chat is something I think that needed no rush to be implemented, and I think Zul'Aman testing would be better. But if the voice chat is going to take up one of these patches, I want it done as quickly as is reasonable.

    Voice chat is about as much content, as a new skin for WoW would be.

    I note the sarcasm, but I do hope they update the graphics in the future.

    Heh, I didn't even mean graphics, I meant the UI, the combat bars and skill bars, being reskinned.

    Re: Thomamelas:
    It's not even as much of an issue of this being a 2.x,but the speed of content. If you follow the history, content patches have been progressively farther and farther apart. Even IF the content release was what it ought to be, I'd still say a poor standard was set early on, setting unrealistic expectations.

    I don't, however, think that the content release has not been too slow. I'm not even saying we need a new instance every patch. I actually liked the Ogri'la content, little things like this make a difference, and I have played MMOs with monthly patches that gave a modest amount of content, but it was constant.

    Edit: And let's not forget that Blizz specifically said, after the spring 2005 wait(3 months or so), that the time between major content patches would never be that long again, and they have broken that record, multiple times.

    Then that's fine. But the Voip has no bearing on that. Making that project disappear has no impact on Zul'Aman, or that major sound changes don't reserve a PTR patch. My problem isn't the arguement that they aren't relasing content fast enough, but that some how all resources should be focused on it, even if those resources have no impact on it. I'm just annoyed at this assumption that the development project is magic and throwing more developers at something will make it faster. Or that projects can't be done in parallel.
    I think what he's saying is that they could've had this dev team working on something else, something more relevant. Implement guild banks or something. Unless they have a team of sound devs that they specifically formed for this task, it seems like the development time could've been put to use on something much more useful and practical. As it is right now, they're just duplicating functionality that most people already HAVE, and in a format that's less featureful than that other incarnation. That's not an efficient use of programming resources.

    Sound and networking guys for Voip. But something like the guild bank is more of a UI/Database project. And while you can take the first group and use them to make a guild bank, it's not going to be as fast as using the guys who do most of their existing database stuff. There is probley some over lap on their dev teams, but given the scope and number of employee's they have, you're still going to end up with a lot of specialists. The same goes for most projects you can think up.

    Thomamelas on
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    SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    jonxp wrote: »
    "Most" people don't already have it. I'm not sure who you play with, but I've been in a total of one PUG where there was a vent available for use that I didn't have to provide.

    I don't have a mic, I don't use Vent, I don't use Teamspeak.

    I don't want to use a mic, I don't want to use Vent, I don't want to use Teamspeak, I don't want to use Blizzards voice thing.

    In my opinion, this addition means almost nothing to me.

    I also probably wouldn't be using the new instance any time soon, but at least it would be something new for people who are raiding.

    I haves used vent and teamspeak in the past, and quite honestly it annoyed me.

    Seg on
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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I never meant a complete graphics overhaul, but just some little touch-ups. Maybe improving the polygon count, adding new spell and attack animations, etc.

    I've always thought it would be cool if every once in a while if my warrior would occasionally do a NE or UD attack animation instead of his regular set. It would go a long way into improving the look.

    Mild Confusion on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well, the sound and networking guys could be doing something else, what that is I'm not sure. But I would expect that part of what they do is involved in sound for new instances, so that's part of content, or they could be doing general networking efficiency, which is always in need.

    Septus on
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    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The only thing sound programmers could possibly have to do with instances is setting up audio cues. They don't make music, that's a composer's job.

    Opty on
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    ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Septus wrote: »
    Well, the sound and networking guys could be doing something else, what that is I'm not sure. But I would expect that part of what they do is involved in sound for new instances, so that's part of content, or they could be doing general networking efficiency, which is always in need.

    You're confusing composers with coders. While I'm guessing there is some overlap, I'm also guessing they have composers for the music. Just like the guys who write the engine don't draw the models or armor. And you get diminishing returns by repeated going over the same code. Coders are a weird group of people, but like anyone they need to do something a little different some days.

    Personally I think the promise they made was a stupid one about content deadlines. If you want to hold their feet to the fire for that, that's fine. But features like Voip and a guild bank aren't pushing Zul'Aman backwards. What features like this do is give developers something to do when they are in the slow parts of testing cycles, or when their skills aren't needed doing other things. The database guys will have to add mobs loot tables to the database they use. Does that mean they should sit there and twiddle their thumbs?

    Thomamelas on
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    The voice system isn't even on the PTR yet. Voice chat is something I think that needed no rush to be implemented, and I think Zul'Aman testing would be better. But if the voice chat is going to take up one of these patches, I want it done as quickly as is reasonable.

    Voice chat is about as much content, as a new skin for WoW would be.

    You're assuming that Zul'Aman is ready to be tested. And there is absolutely nothing that prevents the PTR patch from being altered to add Zul'Aman to the PTR, or putting up a patch right after with it up. Any development work on the Voip stuff has zero impact on the Zul'Aman release.

    I was thinking ZA was nearly ready to be tested, because of where the premades log in, Amani pass.

    And regardless of the specific situation, right now, this is just another sign of their too slow development process.

    From what I read, the original intent was to have Zul'Aman with this patch, and a decision was made to break it up because Zul'Aman isn't ready yet. But their development process isn't too slow. Your expectations of content updates is simply unrealistic. :lol: I'm serious about this. As much as we complain about bugs, given the scope of what a new instance requires, Blizzard does a good job of releasing rapid content. But instances are massive, with tons of new art, sound, AI, abilities for mobs to use against you, the testing of classes abilities against a mob, boss fights, etc... This isn't a snapping your finger and *poof* new instance. And we've gotten two new instances since the expansion. Mt Hyjal and BT.

    Their expectations aren't unrealistic in the least. If Asheron's Call can put out meaningful content practically every month for over 5 years with less resources and a smaller team, that alone points to blizzard dragging their feet. Granted, AC's graphics aren't as pretty, but it seems most of the time it's the actual mechanics that hold up the production, not the art. If anyone on the whole planet could make monthly content with the greatest of ease for an MMO right now, it's Blizzard. The problem is the current team/teams they have aren't large enough to facilitate a more timely release of content, and they aren't willing to actually spend the money to make those teams bigger. That and they get bigger profit by dragging their feet waiting for another expansion.

    übergeek on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Opty wrote: »
    The only thing sound programmers could possibly have to do with instances is setting up audio cues. They don't make music, that's a composer's job.

    The cues are exactly what I meant. Timing/implementation for the music, the voices, all the sound effects.

    Septus on
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    ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Septus wrote: »
    Opty wrote: »
    The only thing sound programmers could possibly have to do with instances is setting up audio cues. They don't make music, that's a composer's job.

    The cues are exactly what I meant. Timing/implementation for the music, the voices, all the sound effects.

    Which can't be done till pretty close toward the end. You need the instance designed and mobs pretty much placed. And the music cue work isn't going to last into testing. So it's a pretty small window. So what do they do the rest of the time?

    Thomamelas on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well voice chat, as long as they are in fact available and working on the instance sounds when the time comes.

    And I'll second ubergeek on Asheron's Call. That is my standard, and as was mentioned, had a small userbase and is about 9 years old. Earth and Beyond also had a monthly content schedule as well, for most of it's life.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    The voice system isn't even on the PTR yet. Voice chat is something I think that needed no rush to be implemented, and I think Zul'Aman testing would be better. But if the voice chat is going to take up one of these patches, I want it done as quickly as is reasonable.

    Voice chat is about as much content, as a new skin for WoW would be.

    You're assuming that Zul'Aman is ready to be tested. And there is absolutely nothing that prevents the PTR patch from being altered to add Zul'Aman to the PTR, or putting up a patch right after with it up. Any development work on the Voip stuff has zero impact on the Zul'Aman release.

    I was thinking ZA was nearly ready to be tested, because of where the premades log in, Amani pass.

    And regardless of the specific situation, right now, this is just another sign of their too slow development process.

    From what I read, the original intent was to have Zul'Aman with this patch, and a decision was made to break it up because Zul'Aman isn't ready yet. But their development process isn't too slow. Your expectations of content updates is simply unrealistic. :lol: I'm serious about this. As much as we complain about bugs, given the scope of what a new instance requires, Blizzard does a good job of releasing rapid content. But instances are massive, with tons of new art, sound, AI, abilities for mobs to use against you, the testing of classes abilities against a mob, boss fights, etc... This isn't a snapping your finger and *poof* new instance. And we've gotten two new instances since the expansion. Mt Hyjal and BT.

    Their expectations aren't unrealistic in the least. If Asheron's Call can put out meaningful content practically every month for over 5 years with less resources and a smaller team, that alone points to blizzard dragging their feet. Granted, AC's graphics aren't as pretty, but it seems most of the time it's the actual mechanics that hold up the production, not the art. If anyone on the whole planet could make monthly content with the greatest of ease for an MMO right now, it's Blizzard. The problem is the current team/teams they have aren't large enough to facilitate a more timely release of content, and they aren't willing to actually spend the money to make those teams bigger. That and they get bigger profit by dragging their feet waiting for another expansion.

    did asheron's call 2 have content every month? i can't remember.

    Angry on
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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Feh. I log in to the PTR, as my premade has finished copying, and...it's almost completely inadequate for tankadin testing. Yes, it carries 5-piece T6 Lightbringer Armor. But it has almost nothing else in the way of actual tanking gear. A necklace, a couple rings, and Argussian Compass (meh). Only 5 Solid Stars of Elune. No Subtle Living Rubies. No Enduring Talasites. No tank cape. No tank boots, bracers, or belt. No tank weapon. The closest thing to a tank shield is a Gladiator's shield with lots of resilience but no defense. I can't even break 490 defense with this stuff.


    And they even thoughtfully supplied an Off Hand arena sword. Paladins of any spec will get excellent use out of that....

    SabreMau on
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    SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yah, but for a few months chat didn't work.

    They changed to an every other month schedule about 6 months before the expansion, and then about 6 months after the expansion they announced they were going to cancel.

    Them cancelling AC2 is the only reason I started playing WoW. I was perfectly happy playing CoH, and AC2.

    Seg on
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    SabanSaban Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Feh. I log in to the PTR, as my premade has finished copying, and...it's almost completely inadequate for tankadin testing. Yes, it carries 5-piece T6 Lightbringer Armor. But it has almost nothing else in the way of actual tanking gear. A necklace, a couple rings, and Argussian Compass (meh). Only 5 Solid Stars of Elune. No Subtle Living Rubies. No Enduring Talasites. No tank cape. No tank boots, bracers, or belt. No tank weapon. The closest thing to a tank shield is a Gladiator's shield with lots of resilience but no defense. I can't even break 490 defense with this stuff.


    And they even thoughtfully supplied an Off Hand arena sword. Paladins of any spec will get excellent use out of that....

    Blizzard does not care about the Tankadin people.

    Saban on
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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Saban wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Feh. I log in to the PTR, as my premade has finished copying, and...it's almost completely inadequate for tankadin testing. Yes, it carries 5-piece T6 Lightbringer Armor. But it has almost nothing else in the way of actual tanking gear. A necklace, a couple rings, and Argussian Compass (meh). Only 5 Solid Stars of Elune. No Subtle Living Rubies. No Enduring Talasites. No tank cape. No tank boots, bracers, or belt. No tank weapon. The closest thing to a tank shield is a Gladiator's shield with lots of resilience but no defense. I can't even break 490 defense with this stuff.


    And they even thoughtfully supplied an Off Hand arena sword. Paladins of any spec will get excellent use out of that....

    Blizzard does not care about the Tankadin people.

    Last time I copied my paladin over for the PTR (the BT patch), the only tankadin gear they gave me was the tokens for T5, and the fang of the leviathan. Everything else was healing gear.

    I can't say I'm honestly surprised with the gear for this one.

    Nobody on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Seg wrote: »
    Yah, but for a few months chat didn't work.

    They changed to an every other month schedule about 6 months before the expansion, and then about 6 months after the expansion they announced they were going to cancel.

    Them cancelling AC2 is the only reason I started playing WoW. I was perfectly happy playing CoH, and AC2.

    Wasn't AC2's lack of a functioning chat server pretty much entirely on Microsoft's head, since they (as far as I know) ran the servers?

    korodullin on
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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited July 2007
    Weird. While I had to use Honor stuff, druids had a full set of Moonkin gear.

    Sterica on
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