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Gameplay unlockables - Why isn't everyone doing this?

Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered User regular
edited July 2007 in Games and Technology
I recent spent about 3-4 hours unlocking the Handcannon in RE4 and it got me thinking: Why don't more (if not all) games have some sort of items/modes/etc you can unlock when you beat the game? Even something as simple as keeping your weapons and items (such as in Chrono Trigger / Cross) adds at least a reason to play through a game the second time (or 3rd.. or 4th..)

Zelda has how many games now and not ONE has a boss rush mode? And don't get me wrong, I love Zelda, but the bosses are often the highpoint (followed closely by the dungeons).

Now, I'm not saying games need to have a huge amount of extra content, but SOMETHING for beating a game would be nice.

Perhaps do the Tales of Symphonia thing and make you pick and choose (via purchasing bonuses using earned in-game points) what bonuses you want for a new game.

In this thread I wanna know what you guys think and if you agree with me, what you'd like to see in future games in your favourite series.

Magus` on
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    Dodge AspenDodge Aspen Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    100 percent agree. Some incentive to beating a game is always a plus, even when the game is as great as RE4.

    Dodge Aspen on
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    taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    unlockables like that tend to piss me off more than anything. I barely have time to play through all the games I want to once, so give me all the items/levels/whatevers in my first (and only) play through so I can enjoy the game to its fullest, trying to artificially increase a games length by sticking in end of game unlocks is pretty low in my opinion

    taliosfalcon on
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    Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    You're not understanding the point, I think. It's not like you have to play the game over and over again to see the content. This would be more like you play through the game and it lets you start over with your skills, or your weapons, or something.

    Sure, they could also do stuff like 'artifically add more content' but either way, I'm sick of beating a game and then getting nothing. RE4 is the perfect example of game bonuses (without increasing the length in a bad way).

    Magus` on
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    taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Magus` wrote: »
    You're not understanding the point, I think. It's not like you have to play the game over and over again to see the content. This would be more like you play through the game and it lets you start over with your skills, or your weapons, or something.

    Sure, they could also do stuff like 'artifically add more content' but either way, I'm sick of beating a game and then getting nothing. RE4 is the perfect example of game bonuses (without increasing the length in a bad way).
    but you specifically mentioned the handcannon, afaik you can only get the handcannon by beating the game, then 5 starring the mercenary missions, then you can get it in the normal game. Things like that aggravate me to no end, if you could spend 4 hours or however much time unlocking it during your first play through, thats no problem. But when you can *only* get it period after you've beaten the game and are playing through it again, i just find that as kind of an insult to be people who don't have time to play the game over and over, or god forbid find it boring to play it over and over. They don't get the full experience with all the items/weapons because god forbid they only play the game once.

    taliosfalcon on
    steam xbox - adeptpenguin
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    citizen059citizen059 hello my name is citizen I'm from the InternetRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I think it depends on the game & genre.

    I enjoy the TOCA Race Driver series (currently on RD3), but I absolutely hate having to unlock content. If I just got the game and I want to race a certain series, then either I need to spend precious hours of my time "working" my way toward unlocking it, or I have to cheat by downloading a 100% complete savegame.

    To me, unlocking in a racing game is stupid. If it's in the game I want to be able to race it whenever I want. Not whenever I "earn" it by completing X number of races in other series along the way. If it's a money-based game where you have to earn enough cash to buy something, that's fine. But I don't like it when I'm limited on that either...if I have the cash to buy a major upgrade for my car in a game, I should be able to buy it. I shouldn't have to wait until I beat X number of races in a territory or something (NFS series, I'm looking at you)

    Not to mention that the unlocks in RD3 also apply to multiplayer...if you haven't unlocked it in the single player game yet, you can't host a game with it online. Now, you can play it if someone else who's unlocked it is hosting. You just can't be the host if you haven't unlocked it yet.

    Screw that. I downloaded a 100% savegame for online play. I started a new profile for single player. That way I can work through the game "for real" at my leisure, which to be honest I've never done because the single player campaign in RD3 is crap and no sane person should ever have to endure it.

    I mostly just load up my 100% savegame and play online.

    citizen059 on
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    Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. I think all the content in the main game should be there from the start. However, I would like some incentives to re-play the game in a different way. It adds more value to it.

    Talios, if you don't like replaying games, that's your problem. I shouldn't have my games limited just so EVERYONE can enjoy it to the max due to their schedule.

    Magus` on
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I would rather have extra characters or multiple endings than unlockables, although there are some good ones (Mercenaries on RE4 is possibly the best example of it).

    I like the aspect that Chrono Cross had where in order to have every person on your roster, you had to play through the game 3 times in order for it.

    And multiple endings are always good for making you go further. Although I hate "bad" endings, like Silent Hill had; start with the regular "normal" ending, and if you do other stuff on top of it more story is explained at the end.

    TexiKen on
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    taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Magus` wrote: »
    Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. I think all the content in the main game should be there from the start. However, I would like some incentives to re-play the game in a different way. It adds more value to it.

    Talios, if you don't like replaying games, that's your problem. I shouldn't have my games limited just so EVERYONE can enjoy it to the max due to their schedule.

    Yet people who don't enjoy unlockables have their games limited just because some people do like unlockables. lets face it, they spent resources making these items, if they werent making unlockables they would either stick the items into the main game, or use those resources to improve the main game in other ways

    taliosfalcon on
    steam xbox - adeptpenguin
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    citizen059citizen059 hello my name is citizen I'm from the InternetRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Magus` wrote: »
    Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. I think all the content in the main game should be there from the start. However, I would like some incentives to re-play the game in a different way. It adds more value to it.

    I can go along with that.

    Multiple story paths that differ based on your choices with different endings are a good way to add replay value.

    Games that offer the ability to play the primary campaign online with friends are also good. That's how I got into playing NwN online. Even if the official campaign was a bit weak, it was more fun with live people than with the idiot henchmen.

    I just hate unlocks. ;)

    citizen059 on
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    subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I also don't like unlockables for the fact that when my savegame is gone, so too is any cool stuff I had. Often times, the concept of unlockables actually replaces 'cheat codes' (I feel cheat codes still have their place in gaming today, but that's probably a separate topic).

    There's the whole argument of getting everything out of your game. Most of us can't afford to spend 5 hours of our 30 hour game trying to get the golden chocobo. For us, we want access to the fun content as a matter of course. I don't really want to have to spend hours of work trying to get the fun stuff in the game (see also: MC Chris re: Kingdom Hearts and Resident Evil 4). It's probably why I tend more towards action or strategy games these days, less on RPG's or any game that requires heavy 'grinding' of one form or another to get anywhere. If the core gameplay centres not around fun itself, but working so that later on you can get to the fun items / abilities, then that's just not for me anymore.

    I don't mind unlockables when they're just additional stuff that you're not really missing out on but give the game a bit more diversity and fun (it's not as if you need the Chicago typewriter to play on hard. That thing actually makes the game too easy in some respects anyway).

    Bah, I'm ranting now. /rant

    subedii on
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    ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Unlockable multiplayer mode should be punished by death.

    Æthelred on
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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm usually fine with stuff like skins or costumes, or a super hard bonus level that I wouldn't be good enough to beat without meeting criteria X anyway, but locking off modes of play is retarded.

    As far as the replay variations go, I think it's sometimes due to style that they don't include a boss rush or whatever, especially in something like Zelda. It'd kind of dilute the grand adventure feel if there was a "rush Ganon" option at the end.

    LeumasWhite on
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    CaswynbenCaswynben Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I like unlockable costumes.

    Caswynben on
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    RamiRami Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I want a reward for beating a game. And this is to be a separate reward from the joy of having played through a great game.

    Many are bad though, like unlocking Mewtwo after 20 hours of multiplayer matches. Time based unlocks are as far down on the scale of rubbish unlockables as you can get.

    Rami on
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    SaddlerSaddler Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Caswynben wrote: »
    I like unlockable costumes.

    Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and MvC2 Dreamcast made great use of unlockable costumes. Both of them also had ways to cheat to get all the stuff for you lazy bitches.

    Saddler on
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    subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Saddler wrote: »
    Caswynben wrote: »
    I like unlockable costumes.

    Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and MvC2 Dreamcast made great use of unlockable costumes. Both of them also had ways to cheat to get all the stuff for you people that actually work and have lives and so like to think of games as a short bit of entertainment and not a frigging career choice.

    Fix'd ;-)

    subedii on
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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm all for challenging unlockables

    The original Perfect Dark is the king of this. Play some single player, unlock some stuff, play some multiplayer, unlock more stuff. You can get all the regular stuff without too too work, but for some of the cheats prepare to spend days getting them all.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
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    CaswynbenCaswynben Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I hate multiplayer-intensive games where you can't unlock things unless you play story mode by yourself.

    Caswynben on
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    The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Magus` wrote: »
    Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. I think all the content in the main game should be there from the start. However, I would like some incentives to re-play the game in a different way. It adds more value to it.

    Talios, if you don't like replaying games, that's your problem. I shouldn't have my games limited just so EVERYONE can enjoy it to the max due to their schedule.

    Yet people who don't enjoy unlockables have their games limited just because some people do like unlockables. lets face it, they spent resources making these items, if they werent making unlockables they would either stick the items into the main game, or use those resources to improve the main game in other ways

    I doubt it took them very long to make the handcannon. It's just a damn gun that does a lot of damage. Having the Handcannon accessible in the main game would make it completely retarded and easy and throw the balance of the game off, so either they have unlockable handcannon or no handcannon. It's a toy so you can fuck around after finishing the game once.

    The Cheese on
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm all for challenging unlockables

    The original Perfect Dark is the king of this. Play some single player, unlock some stuff, play some multiplayer, unlock more stuff. You can get all the regular stuff without too too work, but for some of the cheats prepare to spend days getting them all.

    One of the neat parts about how that worked is that all of the weapons were accessable from both the single-player and the multiplayer challenges, so you could unlock them all by multiplayer alone. I think the stages and gameplay modes required multiplayer unlocks, though.

    jothki on
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    JoonJoon Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Magus` wrote: »
    You're not understanding the point, I think. It's not like you have to play the game over and over again to see the content. This would be more like you play through the game and it lets you start over with your skills, or your weapons, or something.

    Sure, they could also do stuff like 'artifically add more content' but either way, I'm sick of beating a game and then getting nothing. RE4 is the perfect example of game bonuses (without increasing the length in a bad way).
    but you specifically mentioned the handcannon, afaik you can only get the handcannon by beating the game, then 5 starring the mercenary missions, then you can get it in the normal game. Things like that aggravate me to no end, if you could spend 4 hours or however much time unlocking it during your first play through, thats no problem. But when you can *only* get it period after you've beaten the game and are playing through it again, i just find that as kind of an insult to be people who don't have time to play the game over and over, or god forbid find it boring to play it over and over. They don't get the full experience with all the items/weapons because god forbid they only play the game once.

    If you could get the super weapons on your first play through, it would completely trivialize it. They don't allow you to get those weapons so that you play through the game without cheesing it at least once. I can understand your point about wanting all the content but what they did really makes a kind of sense.

    Well, Wind Waker did have an area where you could fight some of the bosses again. It was all in black and white though so fuck that crap.

    Nintendo, god bless 'em, is pretty shitty about unlockables or extras.

    You got all 120 stars? Nicely done! Here's 100 extra lives.
    What for? I did everything.
    Hell if I know. You can go not ride Yoshi if you want though.

    You got all 120 shines? Shit, let me change the static congratulations page for you then!
    Oh yeah, okay, that's kinda nice in a way I guess...

    You got all 150 Pokemon? Well, god damn, here is your certificate of merit. Well, actually we'll be keeping it here but you stop by and look at it any time you want!

    You got EVERY trophy? Holy shit, that takes a lot of work! Good job!
    Yeah, so did I unlock something or what?
    Good job!

    Joon on
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    ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I think end game bonuses (New Game + is my favorite) are always incentive to beat the game, but they seem to be going out of style. I would really like to see more games feature it.

    Zombiemambo on
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    KimFidlerKimFidler Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The thing is, game companies put in unlockables because they don't give a fuck if you have a life or not. All they care about is that you spend enough time playing their game, until they release another game that you can buy. They don't want you running out and buying another title unless it's something from their catalogue.

    KimFidler on
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Joon wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    You're not understanding the point, I think. It's not like you have to play the game over and over again to see the content. This would be more like you play through the game and it lets you start over with your skills, or your weapons, or something.

    Sure, they could also do stuff like 'artifically add more content' but either way, I'm sick of beating a game and then getting nothing. RE4 is the perfect example of game bonuses (without increasing the length in a bad way).
    but you specifically mentioned the handcannon, afaik you can only get the handcannon by beating the game, then 5 starring the mercenary missions, then you can get it in the normal game. Things like that aggravate me to no end, if you could spend 4 hours or however much time unlocking it during your first play through, thats no problem. But when you can *only* get it period after you've beaten the game and are playing through it again, i just find that as kind of an insult to be people who don't have time to play the game over and over, or god forbid find it boring to play it over and over. They don't get the full experience with all the items/weapons because god forbid they only play the game once.

    If you could get the super weapons on your first play through, it would completely trivialize it. They don't allow you to get those weapons so that you play through the game without cheesing it at least once. I can understand your point about wanting all the content but what they did really makes a kind of sense.

    Well, Wind Waker did have an area where you could fight some of the bosses again. It was all in black and white though so fuck that crap.

    Nintendo, god bless 'em, is pretty shitty about unlockables or extras.

    You got all 120 stars? Nicely done! Here's 100 extra lives.
    What for? I did everything.
    Hell if I know. You can go not ride Yoshi if you want though.

    You got all 120 shines? Shit, let me change the static congratulations page for you then!
    Oh yeah, okay, that's kinda nice in a way I guess...

    You got all 150 Pokemon? Well, god damn, here is your certificate of merit. Well, actually we'll be keeping it here but you stop by and look at it any time you want!

    You got EVERY trophy? Holy shit, that takes a lot of work! Good job!
    Yeah, so did I unlock something or what?
    Good job!

    Okami is one of the worst, after you do pretty much every single thing possible and then beat the game, you unlock an item that gives you infinite health and massive damage, allowing you to trivialize the game that you've already completely beaten anyway.

    Sonic and the Secret Rings and Elebits handled it pretty well I think.

    In Sonic, getting medals slowly gives you additional, often useful skills, as well as pieces of music and artwork. For some reason, getting them bit by bit makes them feel more like an accomplishment than opening a whole gallery at a time.

    Elebits gives you a bunch of additional challenges, as well as a bunch of special options, like settings that make you lose immediately if you do something wrong, or items like the perma-vacuum that aren't always good for beating levels but are fun to mess with.

    jothki on
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    MugenmidgetMugenmidget Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Saddler wrote: »
    MvC2 Dreamcast made great use of unlockable costumes...had ways to cheat to get all the stuff for you lazy bitches.
    How exactly? I thought you could only mess around with the points shop.

    Mugenmidget on
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    CronusCronus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I've heard talk of cheats, but not in the way that they should/are being used. Just from this thread alone we can see that some people like unlockable content and others do not. Many cheat codes allow players to unlock this content. This allows people to play through the game and unlock the content or to use a cheat code if they want everything right at the start. You can satisfy both types of gamers with this approach and it seems as if more games are taking it.

    Cronus on
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    "Read twice, post once. It's almost like 'measure twice, cut once' only with reading." - MetaverseNomad
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Hell I'd be happy with just most games letting you play after the credit rolled. Sure, for some games this wouldn't be anything special, but why you can't do this for say, the Zelda games, is beyond me.

    Javen on
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    slurpeepoopslurpeepoop Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Cronus wrote: »
    I've heard talk of cheats, but not in the way that they should/are being used. Just from this thread alone we can see that some people like unlockable content and others do not. Many cheat codes allow players to unlock this content. This allows people to play through the game and unlock the content or to use a cheat code if they want everything right at the start. You can satisfy both types of gamers with this approach and it seems as if more games are taking it.


    As long as they pay for it, hahaha.....

    Hahahahahahahaha....

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!

    And your little dog, too!!!!!

    slurpeepoop on
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    scootchscootch Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I don't mind it if the unlockables are jokes and stuff. like new outfits that otherwise wouldn't fit into the main setting.

    I rather have all the stuff discoverable on my first play through.

    scootch on
    TF2 stats
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    Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    It's actually mystified me for a long time how many G&T regulars get frothingly enraged at challenging unlockables that make a game difficult or impossible to fully complete/100% on one playthrough. I've said it before and I'll say it again--if you've got OCD, it's not the developers' fault. The fast majority of players can enjoy a game like FF7 and happily put it down without beating Emerald Weapon, let alone Ruby Weapon.

    That stuff doesn't have to be in the game. If a developer goes the extra mile to put that kind of extra challenge for the folks that really love a game and want more reason to play it, they're really just doing everyone a favor.


    I've beaten RE4 four times (or five?) and I've never gotten the Handcannon. I tried for awhile, but eventually I realized I wasn't going to pull it off without starting to hate the game, so I just put the game down.

    Captain K on
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    FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Javen wrote: »
    Hell I'd be happy with just most games letting you play after the credit rolled. Sure, for some games this wouldn't be anything special, but why you can't do this for say, the Zelda games, is beyond me.

    Well it's a lot of work for something that a lot of people might not care about. At the bare minimum you'd have to change the dialog/behavior of every npc in the game world to reflect the fact that the big bad evil is gone and everyone is happy. And in a case like Twilight Princess :
    The devs would have to create a new Link (game programming wise) that never triggers Midna's apparition since she's gone after the ending.

    Fireflash on
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    JastJast Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Joon wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    You're not understanding the point, I think. It's not like you have to play the game over and over again to see the content. This would be more like you play through the game and it lets you start over with your skills, or your weapons, or something.

    Sure, they could also do stuff like 'artifically add more content' but either way, I'm sick of beating a game and then getting nothing. RE4 is the perfect example of game bonuses (without increasing the length in a bad way).
    but you specifically mentioned the handcannon, afaik you can only get the handcannon by beating the game, then 5 starring the mercenary missions, then you can get it in the normal game. Things like that aggravate me to no end, if you could spend 4 hours or however much time unlocking it during your first play through, thats no problem. But when you can *only* get it period after you've beaten the game and are playing through it again, i just find that as kind of an insult to be people who don't have time to play the game over and over, or god forbid find it boring to play it over and over. They don't get the full experience with all the items/weapons because god forbid they only play the game once.

    If you could get the super weapons on your first play through, it would completely trivialize it. They don't allow you to get those weapons so that you play through the game without cheesing it at least once. I can understand your point about wanting all the content but what they did really makes a kind of sense.

    Well, Wind Waker did have an area where you could fight some of the bosses again. It was all in black and white though so fuck that crap.

    Nintendo, god bless 'em, is pretty shitty about unlockables or extras.

    You got all 120 stars? Nicely done! Here's 100 extra lives.
    What for? I did everything.
    Hell if I know. You can go not ride Yoshi if you want though.

    You got all 120 shines? Shit, let me change the static congratulations page for you then!
    Oh yeah, okay, that's kinda nice in a way I guess...

    You got all 150 Pokemon? Well, god damn, here is your certificate of merit. Well, actually we'll be keeping it here but you stop by and look at it any time you want!

    You got EVERY trophy? Holy shit, that takes a lot of work! Good job!
    Yeah, so did I unlock something or what?
    Good job!

    Reminds me of GUN where for getting 100% complete you get a unlimited stamina horse which is useless because you've already completed everything and all you can do is ride through the endless desert.

    Jast on
    Jast39.png
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    Spectral SwallowSpectral Swallow Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    For the love of god, they need to give RPG's the Chrono Cross fast forward feature. It was EASILY the best unlockable in any game...ever.
    But yeah I think an ideal solution for actual unlockables would be something akin to Lego Star Wars system, where you COULD put in codes, but you could also beat the objectives to get them.
    I know I personally never used a code to unlock that stuff, but that would satisfy everyone, I think.

    Spectral Swallow on
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    redfenixredfenix Aka'd as rfix Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Javen wrote: »
    Hell I'd be happy with just most games letting you play after the credit rolled. Sure, for some games this wouldn't be anything special, but why you can't do this for say, the Zelda games, is beyond me.


    <3 Earthbound.

    redfenix on
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    citizen059citizen059 hello my name is citizen I'm from the InternetRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    redfenix wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    Hell I'd be happy with just most games letting you play after the credit rolled. Sure, for some games this wouldn't be anything special, but why you can't do this for say, the Zelda games, is beyond me.


    <3 Earthbound.


    Worked OK with Freelancer, too.

    citizen059 on
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    SirUltimosSirUltimos Don't talk, Rusty. Just paint. Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I see no problem with unlockables, and wouldn't mind if more games had unlockables.

    SirUltimos on
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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I think this is the basic appeal of Gamerscore and Achievement points for some on XBL.

    Local H Jay on
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    For RE4 in particular, I don't like the unlockable weapons. I've already beaten the game, so I don't need items that make beating the game easier.

    Things like Mercenaries mode and Separate Ways are great, though.

    Speed Racer on
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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Golden Eye's Enemy Rockets and 007 Mode pretty much were my most favorite unlockables ever.

    The Lovely Bastard on
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    Strange AttractorStrange Attractor Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Because it's gimmiky. You should want to complete a game because of its inherent quality.

    Strange Attractor on
    Hi.
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