Games That Make You Think

Misanthropic

I'm currently looking for some of the deepest titles that the medium of video games has to offer. Any suggestions?

I'm talking about games that have strong elements of philosophy, morality, religion, emotions, etc. For example, Xenogears (with a main inspiration for the game being the works of Nietzsche). Games that are more novels than they are video games.

EDIT: I'm looking more for games with interesting and thought provoking narratives rather than puzzle games and strategy titles. Games that are more like reading a good book than finding the right way to arrange blocks or being able to choose between being bad or being good.

I'd like to construct a list for myself and others.

List so far (bold for I've played, italic for I need to):
Parasite Eve
Deus Ex (1 and 2)
Shadow of the Colossus
Ico
Grim Fanfango
Xenogears (were the other Xeno-games the same as the first? they at the very least reference Nietzsche in the titles - Der Wille Zur Macht and Thus Spake Zarathustra, respectively)
Planescape: Torment
Metal Gear Solid franchise
Final Fantasy (Notably X, XII and Tactics)
Killer 7
Silent Hill franchise
Half-Life franchise
Interactive Fiction games
Marathon series
Baldur's Gate series
The Dig
Eternal Sonata
Zelda: Majora's Mask

slurpeepoop

Misanthropic wrote: »

I'm currently looking for some of the deepest titles that the medium of video games has to offer. Any suggestions?

I'm talking about games that have strong elements of philosophy, morality, religion, emotions, etc. For example, Xenogears (with a main inspiration for the game being the works of Nietzsche). Ya' know, thinking mans games.

Brain Age?

Local H Jay

Though it's not very 'deep', Black and White deals alot with morality.
Also, Parasitive Eve is one that made me think...I think...

His Corkiness

Interactive Fiction games cover these elements a lot. Try out Vespers.

Edit: If you want the best lateral-thinking puzzle ever, play Photopia.

Raikoh_Minamoto

Deus Ex: Invisible War had this 'pure democracy' thing that really got me thinking.

Insider

Any grand strategy game requires tons of thinking.

Raere

Fallout makes you think of morality, if that's what you mean.

ubey

God was a dream of good government. You will soon have your God, and you will make it with your own hands.

Burtletoy

Killer 7 was supposed to have a really twisted/hard to follow plot.

FreddyD

I find most of the narratives in video games to be shallow and tedious, mostly because they insist on using methods inherent to film and literature instead of methods inherent to video gaming. Team ICO is one of the few developers that can make a cohesive and gripping story without relying heavily on dialogue.

The other reason is because the writing usually isn't very good. Lucas Arts had some talented writers but they have stopped making adventure games.

So I'm going to suggest Grim Fandango, ICO and Shadow of the Colossus if you want to find a game that makes you ponder about it after you stop playing it.

BahamutZERO

Shadow of the Colossus is the first thing that pops into my head.

FireWeasel

His Corkiness wrote: »

Interactive Fiction games cover these elements a lot. Try out Vespers.

Edit: If you want the best lateral-thinking puzzle ever, play Photopia.

Or Shade. Or anything written by Adam Cadre.

And I hear Slouching Towards Bedlam is pretty good too, though I shamefully have yet to try it.

F-Zero_Racer

Max Payne. Both of them.

Shogun

Sim City 4. This fucking game is impossible. You could be the guy that wrote the code and you could not win at this game.

AJR

Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter and Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga both had some interesting plot ideas. I can’t really say either of them made me think all that much though.

sigmachiev

From the greatest villain ever:

"If God does not exist then.. I shall create him with my own hands!"

"What is an eternity to man is but a moment for God. I have no need for hesitation."

"Sophia first showed me that books are the best way to calm the heart...
... and now I'm hooked on reading."

"You're just running away! You can't bear it when she smiles at you. By painting her portrait, you noticed the gap between your own inner emptiness and her inner abundance. And you could not fill that gap... that's why you are quitting your painting. You are refusing her! Even so, you still can't bring yourself to leave her, can you? In spite of that... why is it that she continues to smile at you? You who can't accept her feelings, you who won't accept her feelings! If it were me who was receiving... such feelings."

Craigopogo

Planescape Torment jumps to mind. Deals with ideas of morality, redemption, identity, fate, justice, all with a talking skull for a sidekick.

l337CrappyJack

You're looking for Planescape: Torment. Possibly Knights of the Old Republic 2, as well. Anything that anyone says here that isn't Planescape: Torment is a lie.

suttbecks

Killer 7 has its own massive Plot Analysis on Gamefaqs, so it must be pretty deep

domite

Crush.

Kami

Deus Ex, for an experience that touches upon real-world events, conspiracy theories, and ties them into a cohesive narrative that rewards outside research.

For a more passive, although just as engaging, narrative, check out Metal Gear Solid 3, which deals with emotions of a soldier, who to trust, and how ongoing war can detriment not only the people fighting, but a society at large. Really engaging stuff.

For a game that makes you question yourself, definitely try any Black Isle RPGs, and Shadow of the Colussus.

I haven't had any personal experiences with Planescape: Torment, but I've heard nothing but incredible things about it.

TexiKen

I dunno, Xenogears just wanted to make it seem like it was deep, from what I remember. There were things in there about rebirth and immortality and some other stuff if I can remember correctly.

There have been other games that deal more with thinking. Front Mission 3, for instance. Asian/global political conflicts and which side you choose (which is determined in the first twenty minutes of the game). Front Mission 4 is lighter fare, with the enemy being, surprise,

those pesky Germans.

FFX and Tales of Symphonia deal with the blindly following religious dogma, although Tales is much more tongue in cheek with a lot of RPG stories.

urahonky

Puzzle Quest made me think.... of suicide.

Does that count?

Misanthropic

I should have been more clear. I'm looking more for games with interesting and thought provoking narratives rather than puzzle games and strategy titles. I'll update the OP to reflect this.

Insider

Misanthropic wrote: »

I should have been more clear. I'm looking more for games with interesting and thought provoking narratives rather than puzzle games and strategy titles. I'll update the OP to reflect this.

Oh if this is what you want then Planescape: Torment is the only answer.

Seriously, the thread is over.

Hotlead Junkie

Sonic 360. How did they make a game worse than Shadow the Hedgehog?

I don't know about you but that was one of the biggest head scratchers for me.

Misanthropic

TexiKen wrote: »

I dunno, Xenogears just wanted to make it seem like it was deep, from what I remember. There were things in there about rebirth and immortality and some other stuff if I can remember correctly.

Check out the plot summary - it was pretty insane if you looked into it.

http://project_xat.tripod.com/text/plot1.txt

or

http://home.earthlink.net/~hopeofdawn/scribblings/fanfiction/xenostory.html

Raiden333

Shin Megami Tensei series.

Orogogus

Wizardry 7 had a surprising amount of analysis of morality, fate, etc. considering its roots as one of the primogenitor hack-and-slash RPGs.

The Marathon FPS games are pretty much obligatory mentions here. To a lesser extent, Myth (their RTS series) is reasonably thought-provoking, too, especially if you try to look for connections on your own and not read the FAQs or fansites or anything.

Freespace 1 & 2 have a mysterious sort of story, but I don't know if it's going to keep you up at night or anything.

I thought I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream was overrated, but it's still not bad. Some people find it really deep.

Portal is really good, but probably a lot longer than it has to be. Also, CGA graphics may be painful to look at.

Blakout

Silent Hill 2 has a really cool and surprisingly deep plot. I haven't played any of the others to see how they stack up, but 2 is highly recommended.

The_Scarab

Max Payne had a proper grown up film noir plot that wasnt contrived generic cliche bullshit.

The 2nd one was probably better.

AggroChan

God of War.
The part where you had to sacrifice a person in order to complete a puzzle.
All while he's thrashing around in a cage and pleading for mercy.
Fuck you, David Jaffe.

suttbecks

Killer 7 still isn't on that list of yours

Javen

I just beat The Dig yesterday.

His Corkiness

You can't get much closer to reading a good book than playing Interactive Fiction games.

DarkPrimus

The Half-Life series.

There is next to no exposition given to you in game. You have to piece it together yourself.

Misanthropic

Blakout wrote: »

Silent Hill 2 has a really cool and surprisingly deep plot. I haven't played any of the others to see how they stack up, but 2 is highly recommended.

Ooh I forgot about the Silent Hills. Thanks for the suggestion. I probably spaced on these because my brain was trying to forget these games, as they scared the shit out of me.

Misanthropic

His Corkiness wrote: »

You can't get much closer to reading a good book than playing Interactive Fiction games.

I'm intrigued. Are they adventure games? More info/links?

Hotlead Junkie

Misanthropic wrote: »

Blakout wrote: »

Silent Hill 2 has a really cool and surprisingly deep plot. I haven't played any of the others to see how they stack up, but 2 is highly recommended.

Ooh I forgot about the Silent Hills. Thanks for the suggestion. I probably spaced on these because my brain was trying to forget these games, as they scared the shit out of me.

I haven't turned a game off and ran downstairs in about 10 years, but wearing headohones at full blast in a darkened room on a widescreen TV... trust me, don't try that unless you want to be utterley terrified. The first visit to the hospital and my first encounter with the nurses

I'll never forget that....

On topic, the stories of the other characters, as well as the main character's one, are great if you really look more deeply into them.

Misanthropic

Hotlead Junkie wrote: »

Misanthropic wrote: »

Blakout wrote: »

Silent Hill 2 has a really cool and surprisingly deep plot. I haven't played any of the others to see how they stack up, but 2 is highly recommended.

Ooh I forgot about the Silent Hills. Thanks for the suggestion. I probably spaced on these because my brain was trying to forget these games, as they scared the shit out of me.

I haven't turned a game off and ran downstairs in about 10 years, but wearing headohones at full blast in a darkened room on a widescreen TV... trust me, don't try that unless you want to be utterley terrified. The first visit to the hospital and my first encounter with the nurses

I'll never forget that....

On topic, the stories of the other characters, as well as the main character's one, are great if you really look more deeply into them.

Yes, I have bought and played every Silent Hill.

I have finished exactly zero of them.

Though the plots are all extremely good. And by that I mean insane.

cj iwakura

Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy Tactics.