Wow... T5 gets the nomination for worst fucking set bonuses then. The 2 set is only useful for a single, particular spec guh.
Yeah, but how awesome is the T5 2-set going to be when it comes time to level up to 80? That and a Voidstar Talisman should get you quite a long ways into WotLK if you want to level as Demo.
The bloodgem has 32 hit, not crit. That's why it's so brilliant, a cheap way to up your hit early on.
I laughed at tier 4 while i was in frozen shadoweave, but i did replace it for tier 5. The copious amounts of shadow damage on it was awesome, but at that point in raiding the lack of hit and crit really started to hurt me. On spellstrike the lack of stamina always bothered me. 57 stamina versus 16 on the head, 48 versus 12 on the pants. I need that stamina to survive the random raid damage.
Eh. With an affliction build Shadoweave works fine, because you'll typically have at least 2 points in Supression, so hit isn't a massive issue. Stam wasn't a major concern either, as long as I had 9-10k buffed I was pretty happy. Honestly, if your mages stay alive either your healers aren't paying attention to warlocks, or warlocks aren't paying attention to what's going on.
Wow... T5 gets the nomination for worst fucking set bonuses then. The 2 set is only useful for a single, particular spec guh.
Yeah, but how awesome is the T5 2-set going to be when it comes time to level up to 80? That and a Voidstar Talisman should get you quite a long ways into WotLK if you want to level as Demo.
What use is a Void Star for levelling? The only thing that ever hurt my pet as demo was pulling about 5 mobs, and usually an extra 130 resist wouldn't have done anything. It is pretty awesome for PvP against casters though.
He must be mistaking them for something else, since they have the same hit and more shadow damage, while his reply says the opposite.
On that note, I don't think we've EVER seen those boots drop, in how many Lurker kills.
Also our non-tailoring shadow priest who grabbed Vashj's robe, Najentus's boots, and Solarian's wand just quit raiding. If he wasn't such a nice guy I'd fucking strangle him.
Why would a shadow priest take those? It kind of boggles the mind.
It's like the ones who insist spell haste owns for them.
It was "better than what he had" or whatever. At the time I hadn't really read up on shadow priest gear so no one questioned it. Then we looked into it and the fucking wand is like 0.00002 DPS better than readily available "of Shadow Wrath" green wands. Just goes to show you can never stop babysitting your raiders.
Vestments is very similar, shadowpriest.com mathcraft puts it like 2 DPS above FSW robe. I understood why the non-tailoring guy took them, he was wearing some shit from Karazhan. But we have a tailoring shadow priest who keeps cheerily saying "I hope we do SSC so I can get my Vestments!" Never mind that it's arguably best in slot for warlocks and mages, one of which is still wearing shit from Karazhan, and it's barely an upgrade for her. Pretty sure it's a +damage downgrade, actually, but the crit adds a tiny bit to SW: D. I hate people.
Well "better than tier 6 robes" is arguable because the 4-piece set bonus is awesome, so it becomes a matter of which best-in-slot off-drop you manage to acquire first.
But yeah.
The only Illidan-killing guild on our server had their first Skull of Guldan ninjaed by an elemental shaman. And I mean literally ninjaed, took both chests and the shield too. Good times.
Well "better than tier 6 robes" is arguable because the 4-piece set bonus is awesome, so it becomes a matter of which best-in-slot off-drop you manage to acquire first.
The only Illidan-killing guild on our server had their first Skull of Guldan ninjaed by an elemental shaman. And I mean literally ninjaed, took both chests and the shield too. Good times.
Are these things not controlled by a master looter or something?
A lot of high-end guilds don't bother with ML, from back in the day when it bugged out all the time. Personally I don't see why NOT use ML now, but people are stubborn. You say this and the response is "ROFL noobs if you use ML it means you don't trust your raiders, L2P" when really it's just being safe from "oops, misclicked" etc.
Well "better than tier 6 robes" is arguable because the 4-piece set bonus is awesome, so it becomes a matter of which best-in-slot off-drop you manage to acquire first.
Not as good as balance druid tier 5 4 piece .
It's just so...hot.
Stuff like that sucks though. I'd like to be able to wear full (holy priest) T6, but I never would, because the 2 piece T5 bonus is the best set bonus in the game for priests. It's dumb.
Well "better than tier 6 robes" is arguable because the 4-piece set bonus is awesome, so it becomes a matter of which best-in-slot off-drop you manage to acquire first.
Not as good as balance druid tier 5 4 piece .
It's just so...hot.
Stuff like that sucks though. I'd like to be able to wear full (holy priest) T6, but I never would, because the 2 piece T5 bonus is the best set bonus in the game for priests. It's dumb.
I'm just a sucker for set bonuses. Feral druids have a similar issue, with(the last time I checked) 2 pieces of tier 4 being better than any other combination, maybe with an exception for some possible combination of tier 6. On the one hand, it frees you from having to spend DKP on those slots, on the other hand, it can be nice to have a goal of a full new set of tier armor.
I hate set bonuses. I hate meta gems. I like being able to take two pieces of gear that go in the same hole and know WITHOUT A DOUBT which one is superior.
I hate set bonuses. I hate meta gems. I like being able to take two pieces of gear that go in the same hole and know WITHOUT A DOUBT which one is superior.
Also fuck spell hit.
Even without set bonuses, can you do that? I don't know that I can determine, 100%, if x armor penetration with x hit rating and x crit rating will be better than x agility and x AP. I agree on hit rating, it's a huge annoyance, and determining the value of crit when I've got finishers to calculate and rotations to finagle, and I'm just full of doubt. And some set bonuses, like the 10% to starfire, or 6% to shadowbolt, are very easy to calculate.
A lot of high-end guilds don't bother with ML, from back in the day when it bugged out all the time. Personally I don't see why NOT use ML now, but people are stubborn. You say this and the response is "ROFL noobs if you use ML it means you don't trust your raiders, L2P" when really it's just being safe from "oops, misclicked" etc.
When we do hyjal we do need/greed and just pass everything so our guild looter can DE/loot the hearts of darkness. That kinda makes sense for me.
But doing free for all on all other bosses makes me so uneasy. We've already had someone 'accidentally' need on a jewel crafting recipe.
Anyways, I'm using FSW atm and don't really plan on doing much vashj in the future for her chest. Should I bid on Robes of Rhonin? Or save up DKP for Tempest of Chaos (second/third in line, depending if a mage bids on t6). Or bid on t6 helm over spell hit stacked cowl of engineer and get the kick ass* 2 piece t6 bonus? I'm thinking to DKP whore until sword as no one will bid on the robes anyways. Plus I can use the sword in PvP while the illidan staff I probably can't.
It's not super hard to figure out how set bonsus and metas figure into DPS. People with more knowledge than me have pretty much /math'ed it all out, anyway.
I know, for example, EJ's figured out what the T5 4/5 bonus adds in terms of damage; I think it's the equivalent of 10-15 +damage in an affliction build. The math is just a lot more complicated.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
A lot of high-end guilds don't bother with ML, from back in the day when it bugged out all the time. Personally I don't see why NOT use ML now, but people are stubborn. You say this and the response is "ROFL noobs if you use ML it means you don't trust your raiders, L2P" when really it's just being safe from "oops, misclicked" etc.
When we do hyjal we do need/greed and just pass everything so our guild looter can DE/loot the hearts of darkness. That kinda makes sense for me.
But doing free for all on all other bosses makes me so uneasy. We've already had someone 'accidentally' need on a jewel crafting recipe.
Anyways, I'm using FSW atm and don't really plan on doing much vashj in the future for her chest. Should I bid on Robes of Rhonin? Or save up DKP for Tempest of Chaos (second/third in line, depending if a mage bids on t6). Or bid on t6 helm over spell hit stacked cowl of engineer and get the kick ass* 2 piece t6 bonus? I'm thinking to DKP whore until sword as no one will bid on the robes anyways. Plus I can use the sword in PvP while the illidan staff I probably can't.
* suck ass
It kind of depends on your spec. If you are destro, I'd really suggest picking up the Robes of Rhonin and maybe the dagger off of Najentus. Personally I use the Illidan staff, but that's because we have only ever had one Tempest drop, and there are two mages with more DKP than me. As for the helm, why not if it's cheap. I always felt the chest was the weakest item in the T6 set (no spell crit, I love crit) and the 4 piece is so insanely good for a destro lock as all you'll ever really cast at that point is shadowbolt.
Shame on you guys! First post should have builds listed!
Having said that, I just started a new Warlock, having fun with him. What would you guys say is the best leveling build, and which talents should I go for first?
It's pretty much generally agreed upon that a drain tank build is the best solo leveling build. However, demonology is supposedly more fun. I went to 62 as affliction, and solo play is easy.
Wave: Affliction. It is possible to level demonology, if you find you enjoy it, but affliction is king. Imp Corruption, Imp Lifetap, and Imp Drain Soul are efficiency++. Points in Suppression can be useful if you find yourself fighting higher-level mobs a lot, which warlocks are more than capable of.
Bid-based DKP systems are alien to me, we did zero-sum for two years and now we don't use DKP at all. But I would (and did) take Robes of Rhonin over FSW. The weapon thing is tough... I see just as much argument for the zergling on a stick as for the ToC/CoDS combo. It seems to be, like the Vashj robes/Channeled Elements debate, a matter of which drops first for you. I see more locks running around my server with the staff, but I know that that guild has had shit luck getting ToC to drop. I want it because I already have the offhand but I'd be happy with either. The spell hit on the MH/OH is hard to make up for though.
Drain tanking is a technique, basicallly its just an affliction build. You DOT up a mob, life tap back your mana, and then drain life back to full. You might have to bandage after every 20 or so mobs. Might.
You never have to bother with water. All you need is food, because of life tap. Curse of Exhaustion is nice too, when getting chased by mobs when you're going to die. Throw that on them while running away and you're good.
Yeah pretty much. I wouldn't have taken Empowered Corruption when leveling before 2.3, but then maybe there's enough spell damage on all the noob blues to justify it now.
I'd also maybe question empowered corruption, but take at least one point out of imp. CoA and complete soul siphon, and maybe put the other point into suppression. But don't take more than two points of suppression when levelling up unless you just love killing oranges.
More like this. A lot of the low level affliction talents are good, it doesn't really make much difference in the order you choose them as long as you get Improved Corruption, Fel Concentration, Shadow Mastery, Siphon Life, Dark Pact, and Unstable Affliction as soon as possible. Pick points in suppression when you need talent points to get to the next tier or if you find yourself consistently fighting mobs above your level. Empowered Corruption should be skipped early and taken later once you actually have spell damage for the talent to multiply (the points I placed in there could easily be more points in Suppression, and the talent backfilled once you're in Outland).
It counts as an affliction effect for soul siphon. You want it for better draining, not damage reduction, and as an affliction warlock, you should be spending a fair amount of time with mobs in your face while drain tanking.
Remember, when drain tanking.... you're tanking. You should be draining more life than you're losing. That's why you want a bunch of affliction effects on the mobs.
It counts as an affliction effect for soul siphon. You want it for better draining, not damage reduction, and as an affliction warlock, you should be spending a fair amount of time with mobs in your face while drain tanking.
I'm pretty sure they "fixed" that and it doesn't count anymore for Soul Siphon purposes. People still put one point in for arena builds because it's an extra free magic effect to pad against dispels, but for leveling, useless unless you want the damage reduction.
It counts as an affliction effect for soul siphon. You want it for better draining, not damage reduction, and as an affliction warlock, you should be spending a fair amount of time with mobs in your face while drain tanking.
I'm pretty sure they "fixed" that and it doesn't count anymore for Soul Siphon purposes. People still put one point in for arena builds because it's an extra free magic effect to pad against dispels, but for leveling, useless unless you want the damage reduction.
The closest thing I can find is "Shadow Embrace: This talent's effect can no longer trigger other effects." in 2.3. I think I remember reading something about this, where it can no longer be used to trigger procs, but not that it doesn't affect soul siphon.
Posts
Yeah, but how awesome is the T5 2-set going to be when it comes time to level up to 80? That and a Voidstar Talisman should get you quite a long ways into WotLK if you want to level as Demo.
Eh. With an affliction build Shadoweave works fine, because you'll typically have at least 2 points in Supression, so hit isn't a massive issue. Stam wasn't a major concern either, as long as I had 9-10k buffed I was pretty happy. Honestly, if your mages stay alive either your healers aren't paying attention to warlocks, or warlocks aren't paying attention to what's going on.
What use is a Void Star for levelling? The only thing that ever hurt my pet as demo was pulling about 5 mobs, and usually an extra 130 resist wouldn't have done anything. It is pretty awesome for PvP against casters though.
It was "better than what he had" or whatever. At the time I hadn't really read up on shadow priest gear so no one questioned it. Then we looked into it and the fucking wand is like 0.00002 DPS better than readily available "of Shadow Wrath" green wands. Just goes to show you can never stop babysitting your raiders.
Vestments is very similar, shadowpriest.com mathcraft puts it like 2 DPS above FSW robe. I understood why the non-tailoring guy took them, he was wearing some shit from Karazhan. But we have a tailoring shadow priest who keeps cheerily saying "I hope we do SSC so I can get my Vestments!" Never mind that it's arguably best in slot for warlocks and mages, one of which is still wearing shit from Karazhan, and it's barely an upgrade for her. Pretty sure it's a +damage downgrade, actually, but the crit adds a tiny bit to SW: D. I hate people.
Honestly, losing that shadow priest doesn't sound like it was a great loss. He probably would have taken Skull of Gul'dan.
But yeah.
The only Illidan-killing guild on our server had their first Skull of Guldan ninjaed by an elemental shaman. And I mean literally ninjaed, took both chests and the shield too. Good times.
Not as good as balance druid tier 5 4 piece
It's just so...hot.
Stuff like that sucks though. I'd like to be able to wear full (holy priest) T6, but I never would, because the 2 piece T5 bonus is the best set bonus in the game for priests. It's dumb.
I'm just a sucker for set bonuses. Feral druids have a similar issue, with(the last time I checked) 2 pieces of tier 4 being better than any other combination, maybe with an exception for some possible combination of tier 6. On the one hand, it frees you from having to spend DKP on those slots, on the other hand, it can be nice to have a goal of a full new set of tier armor.
I also like seeing boomkins booming.
Also fuck spell hit.
Even without set bonuses, can you do that? I don't know that I can determine, 100%, if x armor penetration with x hit rating and x crit rating will be better than x agility and x AP. I agree on hit rating, it's a huge annoyance, and determining the value of crit when I've got finishers to calculate and rotations to finagle, and I'm just full of doubt. And some set bonuses, like the 10% to starfire, or 6% to shadowbolt, are very easy to calculate.
But doing free for all on all other bosses makes me so uneasy. We've already had someone 'accidentally' need on a jewel crafting recipe.
Anyways, I'm using FSW atm and don't really plan on doing much vashj in the future for her chest. Should I bid on Robes of Rhonin? Or save up DKP for Tempest of Chaos (second/third in line, depending if a mage bids on t6). Or bid on t6 helm over spell hit stacked cowl of engineer and get the kick ass* 2 piece t6 bonus? I'm thinking to DKP whore until sword as no one will bid on the robes anyways. Plus I can use the sword in PvP while the illidan staff I probably can't.
* suck ass
I know, for example, EJ's figured out what the T5 4/5 bonus adds in terms of damage; I think it's the equivalent of 10-15 +damage in an affliction build. The math is just a lot more complicated.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
It kind of depends on your spec. If you are destro, I'd really suggest picking up the Robes of Rhonin and maybe the dagger off of Najentus. Personally I use the Illidan staff, but that's because we have only ever had one Tempest drop, and there are two mages with more DKP than me. As for the helm, why not if it's cheap. I always felt the chest was the weakest item in the T6 set (no spell crit, I love crit) and the 4 piece is so insanely good for a destro lock as all you'll ever really cast at that point is shadowbolt.
Having said that, I just started a new Warlock, having fun with him. What would you guys say is the best leveling build, and which talents should I go for first?
Bid-based DKP systems are alien to me, we did zero-sum for two years and now we don't use DKP at all. But I would (and did) take Robes of Rhonin over FSW. The weapon thing is tough... I see just as much argument for the zergling on a stick as for the ToC/CoDS combo. It seems to be, like the Vashj robes/Channeled Elements debate, a matter of which drops first for you. I see more locks running around my server with the staff, but I know that that guild has had shit luck getting ToC to drop. I want it because I already have the offhand but I'd be happy with either. The spell hit on the MH/OH is hard to make up for though.
Drain tanking is a technique, basicallly its just an affliction build. You DOT up a mob, life tap back your mana, and then drain life back to full. You might have to bandage after every 20 or so mobs. Might.
You never have to bother with water. All you need is food, because of life tap. Curse of Exhaustion is nice too, when getting chased by mobs when you're going to die. Throw that on them while running away and you're good.
Also, darkpact is awesome for instancing.
I'd also maybe question empowered corruption, but take at least one point out of imp. CoA and complete soul siphon, and maybe put the other point into suppression. But don't take more than two points of suppression when levelling up unless you just love killing oranges.
Do the two swaps I just mentioned, but for the 3 points in emp. corruption, put 1 in shadow embrace and 2 back into imp. coa maybe.
Putting your extra points there will let you kill oranges without too much trouble, actually.
I'll update the OP with some builds.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I mean honestly one of the reasons I loved leveling my warlock was soloing higher-level elites and giggling about it in guild chat.
More like this. A lot of the low level affliction talents are good, it doesn't really make much difference in the order you choose them as long as you get Improved Corruption, Fel Concentration, Shadow Mastery, Siphon Life, Dark Pact, and Unstable Affliction as soon as possible. Pick points in suppression when you need talent points to get to the next tier or if you find yourself consistently fighting mobs above your level. Empowered Corruption should be skipped early and taken later once you actually have spell damage for the talent to multiply (the points I placed in there could easily be more points in Suppression, and the talent backfilled once you're in Outland).
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IiMriRbzqtbo
Shadow Embrace seems... meh. I don't plan on letting things hit me.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IAMrVRbkqtbo
I'm pretty sure they "fixed" that and it doesn't count anymore for Soul Siphon purposes. People still put one point in for arena builds because it's an extra free magic effect to pad against dispels, but for leveling, useless unless you want the damage reduction.
The closest thing I can find is "Shadow Embrace: This talent's effect can no longer trigger other effects." in 2.3. I think I remember reading something about this, where it can no longer be used to trigger procs, but not that it doesn't affect soul siphon.
Edit: Never mind, that was a fast Google. http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2366687245 I stand corrected.