Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[WoW]More dots, more dots.... okay stop dots (Warlock thread)

13468985

Posts

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Basically: 1% crit or a chance of X% on 135 +dmg
    Where X seems to be around 10-15%

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I know. I have about 150 to hit in raiding gear, armory shows my regular instance stuff I think. Still not enough but better than what you see there.

    Anyways, my question was basically how good the t4 bonus really is. I mean I love it, but I haven't seen any theorycrafting backing it up :P

    SO: When getting the spellstrike headpiece, I would break up the set bonus of head-gloves.
    Should I then use the t4 shoulders again for the bonus or rather those new ones I posted before?

    http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t15169-warlock_tier4_2_piece_bonus/

    Using parsers, EJ theorycraft it at around 20-30 +damage equivalent.

    Are you a tailor? Screw the whole set, if you ask me. Frozen Shadoweave has enough raw damage to overcome the loss of the proc. Heck, the set's got enough raw damage that unless your guild is looking at T6 before the next expansion, you're not likely to find higher raw damage. The main concern is losing the hit rating. I use veiled noble topaz for my gems, though, and have 170 hit without t4 (I do currently have leggings until I get another primal nether).

    On top of FSW, Spellstrike has more damage and hit than equivalent tier 4, a slightly weaker version of the T4 2 piece bonus, and more sockets. Unless you're in love with that meta socket, that's the way to go. If you're in love with the meta socket, I'd get the T4 helm and gloves and craft the rest.

    Hevach on
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Man, I just spent the last 15 minutes trying to find the link to what all the set bonus procs are worth in equivalent +dmg. Then I gave up and started reading a PVP thread. EJ search string skills, you have failed me!

    riz on
    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Hevach wrote: »
    I know. I have about 150 to hit in raiding gear, armory shows my regular instance stuff I think. Still not enough but better than what you see there.

    Anyways, my question was basically how good the t4 bonus really is. I mean I love it, but I haven't seen any theorycrafting backing it up :P

    SO: When getting the spellstrike headpiece, I would break up the set bonus of head-gloves.
    Should I then use the t4 shoulders again for the bonus or rather those new ones I posted before?

    http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t15169-warlock_tier4_2_piece_bonus/

    Using parsers, EJ theorycraft it at around 20-30 +damage equivalent.

    Are you a tailor? Screw the whole set, if you ask me. Frozen Shadoweave has enough raw damage to overcome the loss of the proc. Heck, the set's got enough raw damage that unless your guild is looking at T6 before the next expansion, you're not likely to find higher raw damage. The main concern is losing the hit rating. I use veiled noble topaz for my gems, though, and have 170 hit without t4 (I do currently have leggings until I get another primal nether).

    On top of FSW, Spellstrike has more damage and hit than equivalent tier 4, a slightly weaker version of the T4 2 piece bonus, and more sockets. Unless you're in love with that meta socket, that's the way to go. If you're in love with the meta socket, I'd get the T4 helm and gloves and craft the rest.

    I already have the full shadowweave set, but it's lacking any crit/hit, so I'm not too fond of it for destro.. gotty try it out with different sockets than +9 damage in all pieces :P

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited September 2007
    I mean I love it, but I haven't seen any theorycrafting backing it up :P

    The 2 set is AWESOME (I think) and the 4 set is just a huge hassle saver. Gives me an extra 3 seconds to throw out another shadow bolt, move around (ex: Shade), or whatever.

    Viper007Bond on
    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    What's the EJ consensus on spellhit? I've been preaching it's virtues for a while, and I'm curious what they think on the subject.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I think it's pretty universally agreed EJ and beyond that getting ~16% hit is your primary goal for raid bosses. Also something about it being the cheapest way to increase DPS vis a vis itemization value (i.e. crit is overweighted when Blizzard determines stats on something). And there's the soulshatter thing.

    riz on
    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Good deal, that was the conclusion I came to.

    The four piece T4 bonus strikes me as being sort of useless; it's nice (and a tiny, tiny DPS boost) to have slightly fewer GCDs spent casting corruption, but it's not that big a deal. It makes you a bit more mana efficient, too, but I've yet to run into a warlock who had mana problems.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • GanluanGanluan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Anyone out there who can tell me how Felguard spec compares to Affliction spec? I'm currently 66 and can grind like crazy, but have some troubles with quest elites (who are usually immuyne to snare and fear). Some I still manage to kill with the voidwalker, but it can be tough.

    Is it true that grinding with the Felguard is slower, but it's better at taking out quest elites? I'm thinking that if you do something like this that you could get the huge bonuses from demo spec without losing the life tap/improved drain soul grind machine.

    Any thoughts?

    Ganluan on
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I did like 62 to 70 with the felguard, he was awesome. Very useful in five-mans at the time too. Make sure you do at least 2/3 Mana Feed though, he goes OOM pretty fast.

    riz on
    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited September 2007
    I ditched my Felgaurd at 65 and rolled full affliction. I'd just spend too much time healing him and such.

    You'll want to loose him anyway for raiding (waste of a point), so might as well get used to not having him around.

    Viper007Bond on
    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    41/0/20 fo lyfe yo

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • dojangodojango Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    stryker116 wrote: »
    Anyone out there who can tell me how Felguard spec compares to Affliction spec? I'm currently 66 and can grind like crazy, but have some troubles with quest elites (who are usually immuyne to snare and fear). Some I still manage to kill with the voidwalker, but it can be tough.

    Is it true that grinding with the Felguard is slower, but it's better at taking out quest elites? I'm thinking that if you do something like this that you could get the huge bonuses from demo spec without losing the life tap/improved drain soul grind machine.

    Any thoughts?

    I just picked up my lock again, he was stalled at 66. I was attempting to solo those elite nagrand hunting quests as a lock, and was finding it difficult. Until I enslaved the elite felguard legionnaires at the nearby anger camps, and let him do the tanking for me. It is a little less safe then say, having a real felguard, but i think much more fun... Full affliction, btw, so it works an affliction lock, too.

    dojango on
  • Racist JokeRacist Joke Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Oh man, I couldn't believe how many enslaveable demons there were when TBC first hit. I've always thought it was a real big tease in vanilla wow that my enslave spell rarely got used. I then go into Nagrand and see I have a bunch of elite quests to do that involve demons. I see people in groups trying to kill them and theres me, doing it alone with my lovely elite demon pet.

    I love being a lock.

    Racist Joke on
    Steam
    Xbox Live: Kunohara
  • Thomase1984Thomase1984 Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Nagrand felguards are amazing. All of the elite mastery quests (Talbuk, Bird, other thing... AND THE ELEPHANT), Gurok the usurper, the other guy inside the cave north of gurok, the Buying time chain (two huge demons) and a merc gladiator warrior!

    Its still pvp if you are hiding behind a tree :^:

    Thomase1984 on
  • GanluanGanluan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Nagrand felguards are amazing. All of the elite mastery quests (Talbuk, Bird, other thing... AND THE ELEPHANT), Gurok the usurper, the other guy inside the cave north of gurok, the Buying time chain (two huge demons) and a merc gladiator warrior!

    Its still pvp if you are hiding behind a tree :^:

    I've tried this too, but enslave breaks early every time I try it. I was able to get a couple of the mentioned quests done, but he keeps breaking free less than a minute into the duration, or halfway through the fight (since I have to run to whatever target I'm trying to kill). I always open with curse of shadow to lower their resistance but I have yet to get even close to five minutes of duration out of 20ish attempts.

    Ganluan on
  • dojangodojango Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I think the main problem lies in the fact that our locks are only level 66, whereas the demons are level 68. Even though the spell is advertised to be good up to level 70, I think the demons have a better chance of breaking loose. But the demons aren't immune to fear, so unless it breaks loose while you are fighting, say, bach'lor (D'oh), you can take care of it reasonably well.

    But "Death by enraged demon" was one of the risks we assumed when we signed up to be locks.

    dojango on
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I did those quests with my own felguard :P+
    EDIT: I'M GONNA GET MY OWN FELGUARD WITH BLACKJACK AND HOOKERS

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • CharusCharus Registered User
    edited October 2007
    I got sick of watching dot timers and dots in general. So I specced 0/21/40. My crit still kind of sucks (I think it's just shy of 20% with Devastation factored in), but those times when I catch rolling crits...hoo boy.

    Charus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Heh it took me a few deaths to figure out my new aggro rate on trash when I respecced. Yaaaay Omen.

    riz on
    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • Namel3ssNamel3ss Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I am 43/7/11, I really enjoy it. My damage is almost always #1 in raids. Shit, I had 27% of the damage on our last prince fight (<3 Bear tank threat generation)

    I tried 0/21/40 for a day. I hated it. It was fun when I had a 4.7k incenerate crit in the BG. but it sucked for instances.

    I might try 41/0/20, but giving up the 15% boost to stam hurts.

    Namel3ss on
    May the wombat of happiness snuffle through your underbrush.
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Namel3ss wrote: »
    incenerate

    And that is where you fail.

    The real 0/21/40 is a shadowbolt build.

    riz on
    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • Little JimLittle Jim __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2007
    warlocks is serious business

    nerds

    Little Jim on
    th_crabz.png
  • Thomase1984Thomase1984 Registered User
    edited October 2007
    paladin! you're just jealous

    Thomase1984 on
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    paladin! You've ruined your own lands, but you won't ruin mine!

    Fixed?

    Ryokaze on
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Namel3ss wrote: »
    I am 43/7/11, I really enjoy it. My damage is almost always #1 in raids. Shit, I had 27% of the damage on our last prince fight (<3 Bear tank threat generation)

    I tried 0/21/40 for a day. I hated it. It was fun when I had a 4.7k incenerate crit in the BG. but it sucked for instances.

    I might try 41/0/20, but giving up the 15% boost to stam hurts.

    not really. I have about 10K hp fullbuffed atm, 7700 unbuffed. I think this schould be enough for any encounter

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I eventually decided the stam boost was expendable. Once you can get to 10k or so health without the stam boost (talking buffed here), you might as well drop it. 1500 or so spare health won't save you when raid mobs decide to take a swing.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • CharusCharus Registered User
    edited October 2007
    Dyscord wrote: »
    I eventually decided the stam boost was expendable. Once you can get to 10k or so health without the stam boost (talking buffed here), you might as well drop it. 1500 or so spare health won't save you when raid mobs decide to take a swing.

    Unless you're 20+ in demo; I had to put 5/5 in there just so I was spending points on talents that I would use. Even then I still ended up wasting a talent point on Improved Succubus (olol Seducing in 5-mans) on my way to Demonic Sacrifice.

    Charus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Man, I switched to affliction in preparation of our guild just starting into Heroics, but I really, REALLY miss my felguard. Are they really as worthless in heroics as everyone makes them out to be? When I had him, I was like 10/51/0; now I'm 51/10/0, and I really don't like it.

    Is there a way to keep the Felguard and still be a feasible build for heroics?

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • CharusCharus Registered User
    edited October 2007
    delroland wrote: »
    Man, I switched to affliction in preparation of our guild just starting into Heroics, but I really, REALLY miss my felguard. Are they really as worthless in heroics as everyone makes them out to be? When I had him, I was like 10/51/0; now I'm 51/10/0, and I really don't like it.

    Is there a way to keep the Felguard and still be a feasible build for heroics?

    Two answers:

    1. No. He's not worth the talent investment. You'll have to turn off his cleave or be very careful, because you do not want him breaking traps or sheeps. He'll also die very fast if you try to offtank with him, and the damage he does isn't that great compared to the damage you could do if you specced differently.

    2. Once your guild gears up a bit, you can get away with just about any sort of spec as long as you can put up the damage to justify it. Most heroics aren't really that hard in level 70 blues and some crafted/heroic/badge of justice/faction rep/PvP epics.

    Basically, the problem with felguard isn't that he's bad, but in order to take him you are giving up the ability to take talents that are much, much better in other trees.

    Also, you are not giving Destruction enough credit. Basically, every Warlock regardless of race, creed, color, or spec should have 10 points in Destruction at 70 for Improved Shadowbolt and Bane. Bane is that good. Affliction really doesn't warrant putting 51 points into it, I wouldn't put in more than 43-44, depending on how much Suppression you need, and would cut marginal 5-man talents like Improved Curse of Agony, Improved Curse of Weakness, Malediction, and/or any points in Shadow Embrace beyond the first.

    Charus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited October 2007
    Charus is correct. He's not bad, but not bad in the sense that only wanding is a good way to do damage.

    If you really want to keep him though, go a 0/41/?? build where you sacrifice your demon (usually a felhound). Going that deep into demonology will cause a loss in damage compared to a putting a few more points into destruction, but you can get away with it.

    Basically, most people stop at DS in the demo tree and put the rest into destro for that particular build.

    Viper007Bond on
    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    It's not about "getting away with a build" for me. I don't want to spoil the fun for 24 other people by not giving my best, and this includes speccing as raid-friendly as possible

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    7/43/11 (or 0/43/18 maybe) is supposed to be not too bad in raids. But there's definitely times when you'd need to be careful.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • DevilsaurDevilsaur Registered User
    edited October 2007
    So for UA raid spec, does anyone know the verdict on throwing in immolate into cast sequences? Does it start to suck once you get x amount of shadow dmg vs y amount of normal spell dmg?

    What I do is figure out the immolate dmg / casttime+cooldown vs shadowbolt dmg / casttime+cooldown. But then there's ISB procs and T4 procs and yeah more complicated stuff I don't want to bother figuring out.

    Devilsaur on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I bet there's a theoretical amount of +shadow that would make casting immolate a bad idea. It would be a really high amount, though.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    about 2-300 I think. but of course I have no idea whether this factors in the imp. sb debuff and shado priest's shadow vulnerability

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    This is me.
    What upgrades should I get next?
    I do PvP a fair amount, hence my resilience gems.
    Ideas?

    Rizzi on
  • CharusCharus Registered User
    edited October 2007
    I really hate seeing resilience and stam gems on Frozen Shadoweave. If you still have your Oblivion Stuff, gem and enchant that up for PVP until you get Arena gear, and get PVE gems and enchants on your FSW (or just go no resilience, at your health level and cloth armor, I'm not sure how much protection Resilience even offers you).

    The first suggestion is for your talents. If you do instances, you owe it to yourself to get Improved Shadowbolt and Bane. At least. you may want more Destruction than that. Beyond that, unless you are raiding (in which case, you definitely need to regem your FSW), you are wasting all five points in Suppression. You only need 3% for PVP and 5% for regular 5 mans and heroics, and the gear I've seen you wear well exceeded both on the gear alone. If you are raiding, you'd only need 4 points in Suppression in the gear I saw, and probably only 3 if you regemmed your FSW with Veiled Nobles and Glowing Nightseyes.

    Your bracers are the best PVE bracers in the game this side of Al'ar. You'd probably be better served by a spellpower enchant than +4 stats, but they're still quite good.

    You can upgrade your ring, shoulder enchant, and gain access to making Runic Spellthread by grinding your Scryer rep to Exalted. All three are very good.

    I'd replace the +8 stam armor patch on your legs with a Mystic Spellthread (you should be able to create them, 5 primal Mana + Rune Thread), for both more stam and additional spellpower. I'd put this on just about any pair of blue pants I was planning on wearing for a while, and if you got some epic pants crafted, I'd suggest a Runic Spellthread.

    Your cloak is quite good, a better PVE one though is the Sethekk Oracle cloak from Talon King Ikiss in Sethekk Halls.

    The Wand of the Netherwing off of Blackheart the Inciter from Shadow Labyrinth would be a good wand upgrade for you.

    I seem to remember a belt off of the last boss of Steamvaults being quite good, but I can't remember if it's better than the belt you are wearing or not.

    Further upgrades past this, for PVE at least, would all pretty much come from either crafting, Heroics, or Karazhan.

    Charus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Rizzi wrote: »
    This is me.
    What upgrades should I get next?
    I do PvP a fair amount, hence my resilience gems.
    Ideas?


    It's just fine as far as pre-raid gear goes. There's a lot of loot in heroic dungeons that you can get, as well as badge gear. The 'find an upgrade' feature will tell you where to go.

    I would resist the urge to make one set of gear to use for pvp and pve, because you wind up underpowered on both fronts. Getting the honor PvP epics is still pretty easy, and there are other PvP items you can pick up easily from PvE activity (rep, drops, spirit shards.) Putting an 8 resilience gem in the shadoweave gear is silly, as far as I'm concerned, because that stuff just doesn't have the stam / crit to be really good in PvP.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Also the gems were cheap (8g each) and I am broke :P
    What would you advise?

    Rizzi on
13468985
Sign In or Register to comment.