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Prog and other unlistenable music

24567

Posts

  • visiblehowlvisiblehowl He/Him Neutron Nerd Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Sometimes I listen to the Allman Brothers. Sometimes I listen to The Beatles. Sometimes I listen to Maroon 5. Sometimes I even listen to Evanescence or Linkin Park.

    Do you only read Shakespeare and Milton? Do you only watch documentaries, or the news? Do you only eat fruits, vegetables, and other food that is good for you?

    Sometimes I don't want to have to listen to music that's good for me, or read a book that will "expand my mind", or eat healthy. Sometimes I want to read Dean Koontz, or eat a shitty McDonalds hamburger. The assertion that I have to spend my entire life doing stuff that's "good for me" is absurd.

    Goddamnit, why can't I just fucking listen to the music I want to listen to without some prick coming along and telling me why I'm wrong?

    visiblehowl on
    vxsHp3F.gif
    I die evry tiem in Sekiro on Twitch
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    And most indie rock has soooo much to say

    Trouble is they say "I'm got dumped by my girlfiend and I'm sad now" over and over again

    nexuscrawler on
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Sometimes I listen to the Allman Brothers. Sometimes I listen to The Beatles. Sometimes I listen to Maroon 5. Sometimes I even listen to Evanescence or Linkin Park.

    Do you only read Shakespeare and Milton? Do you only watch documentaries, or the news? Do you only eat fruits, vegetables, and other food that is good for you?

    Sometimes I don't want to have to listen to music that's good for me, or read a book that will "expand my mind", or eat healthy. Sometimes I want to read Dean Koontz, or eat a shitty McDonalds hamburger. The assertion that I have to spend my entire life doing stuff that's "good for me" is absurd.

    Goddamnit, why can't I just fucking listen to the music I want to listen to without some prick coming along and telling me why I'm wrong?

    You can listen to whatever you want man, but if you like McDonald's hamburgers, you are wrong.

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    What are we arguing here? There are bad bands and good bands. Europe is pure cheese, but, um, several of Yes' albums are genuinely good. Steve Vai and Omar Rodriguez Lopez are similar (at least same ballpark) of complexity, yet one of them has soul, while the other sounds mechanical.

    Sam on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Sam wrote: »
    What are we arguing here? There are bad bands and good bands. Europe is pure cheese, but, um, several of Yes' albums are genuinely good. Steve Vai and Omar Rodriguez Lopez are similar (at least same ballpark) of complexity, yet one of them has soul, while the other sounds mechanical.

    I would argue Joe Satriani is the Vai with a soul and some stylistic evolution

    nexuscrawler on
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I really enjoy Tool, Rush, and Mastodon. All three are what I consider prog-rock. I went to see Tool a few weeks ago at DTE - totally awesome. For someone who is 'pretentious', MJK said 2 things during the show - "How are you tonight Ohio?" which is a dumb joke he says everytime I see Tool, and "Are you ready to get your socks wet?" because it was lightly sprinkling that night. Adam (or Justin, couldn't tell which and it was really dark) and Danny wore Pistons jerseys out on the stage. Later MJK wore one. For pretentious rockers, it just seems like they want to entertain.

    Going to see Rush in a few weeks- their last concert I went to was my favorite concert ever. I don't read too much into any lyrics (when they get really whiny I turn off, though) and Rush's lyrics are all very varied. Their huge guitar and drum solos are lots of fun, I think.

    mugginns on
    E26cO.jpg
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Mastodon is whalecore. Come on.

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • DesertBoxDesertBox Registered User
    edited July 2007
    mugginns wrote: »
    I really enjoy Tool, Rush, and Mastodon. All three are what I consider prog-rock. I went to see Tool a few weeks ago at DTE - totally awesome. For someone who is 'pretentious', MJK said 2 things during the show - "How are you tonight Ohio?" which is a dumb joke he says everytime I see Tool, and "Are you ready to get your socks wet?" because it was lightly sprinkling that night. Adam (or Justin, couldn't tell which and it was really dark) and Danny wore Pistons jerseys out on the stage. Later MJK wore one. For pretentious rockers, it just seems like they want to entertain.

    Going to see Rush in a few weeks- their last concert I went to was my favorite concert ever. I don't read too much into any lyrics (when they get really whiny I turn off, though) and Rush's lyrics are all very varied. Their huge guitar and drum solos are lots of fun, I think.

    Huge guitar and drum solos are bad and you should feel bad for liking them.

    DesertBox on
    Made you click!
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited July 2007
    DesertBox wrote: »
    mugginns wrote: »
    Going to see Rush in a few weeks- their last concert I went to was my favorite concert ever. I don't read too much into any lyrics (when they get really whiny I turn off, though) and Rush's lyrics are all very varied. Their huge guitar and drum solos are lots of fun, I think.

    Huge guitar and drum solos are bad and you should feel bad for liking them.

    Yes. This.

    Irond Will on
    Wqdwp8l.png
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    DesertBox wrote: »
    mugginns wrote: »
    Going to see Rush in a few weeks- their last concert I went to was my favorite concert ever. I don't read too much into any lyrics (when they get really whiny I turn off, though) and Rush's lyrics are all very varied. Their huge guitar and drum solos are lots of fun, I think.

    Huge guitar and drum solos are bad and you should feel bad for liking them.

    Yes. This.

    Whatever you like is also bad, and you should feel bad for liking it

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • DesertBoxDesertBox Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Sam wrote: »
    What are we arguing here? There are bad bands and good bands. Europe is pure cheese, but, um, several of Yes' albums are genuinely good. Steve Vai and Omar Rodriguez Lopez are similar (at least same ballpark) of complexity, yet one of them has soul, while the other sounds mechanical.

    I would argue Joe Satriani is the Vai with a soul and some stylistic evolution

    Yea, I get the idea that Vai wasn't listening during some of the lessons Satriani gave him.
    If you don't know, Satriani was Vai's instructor. Other notable students: Kirk Hammett (Metallica), David Bryson (Counting Crows), Kevin Cadogan (Third Eye Blind), Larry LaLonde (Primus, Possessed), Alex Skolnick (Testament), Rick Hunolt (Exodus), Tim Calvert (Forbidden, Nevermore), Phil Kettner (Laaz Rockit), Charlie Hunter

    DesertBox on
    Made you click!
  • Vrtra TheoryVrtra Theory Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Tool and Dream Theater don't sound anything alike to me. Also, Tool is the best music ever.

    It's cool, though. I'm OK with being "wrong".

    Vrtra Theory on
    Are you a Software Engineer living in Seattle? HBO is hiring, message me.
  • WorLordWorLord Registered User
    edited July 2007
    I think the question to ask is: if you like a band like Dream Theatre or Tool, why do you like them?

    I could give you a lot of answers, but I like the one that comes to mind first: I find complicated music to be infinitely more satisfying and experiential than more simpler offerings. I almost never get a feeling of satisfaction from radio-friendly pop hits; even the ones I like, I have to play multiple times, because they never seem to last long enough or fully explore whatever theme or riff they're exposing. It's almost like pop-stuff is a snickers bar, and the stuff I tend to gravitate towards is a full (at least) 3-course meal.

    A close second is replayability. Much of modern pop and rock strikes me as utterly disposable. Albums of simple music tend to quickly fade from my radar, because there really isn't that much to them - I get from them all that I'm going to get from them sometimes in less than a week. Fall Out Boy's CD is a good example of that... enjoyed the hell out of it, had no use for it come friday. Some of my favorite albums are the ones that I can listen to years from now and still hear the occasional new sound I hadn't noticed before, or get into a particular part of a large chorus that I ignored previously. Complex music kind of "blooms" over time to my ears this way, whereas simpler-structured poppy stuff becomes ripe and rotten sooner than it should.

    However there are many bands or rather genres that, at first listen, don't make you nod your head or feel energized by being catchy or sounding good. They are very much acquired tastes. I am curious about why people like that really weird stuff.

    Best I can tell you, is that something about a disc like that keeps me coming back. And then the rest of it stops being "weird" and you start to wonder why you didn't get it instantly. Then you just start to crave it for your preferred method of relaxation - like beer, or coffee to some people. I remember that there was a time I didn't look forward to that first cup of coffee in the morning, I remember when I hated coffee, but I can't remember why.

    WorLord on
    ...privately black.
  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm so ignorant, I just like Tool because it sounds cool.

    Shazkar Shadowstorm on
    poo
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm so ignorant, I just like Tool because it sounds cool.

    You rube

    Your jaw must be so slack that it interferes with your typing

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • Original RufusOriginal Rufus Registered User
    edited July 2007
    My problem with Tool is this: if Tool were a single person, he would be utterly intolerable. Imagine spending a few hours with a dude who lived to constantly inundate you with dark, caustic shit, occasionally taking breaks to tell you about people he hates. How often would you hang out with this man?

    That's the sort of material I can deal with in small doses, but when that's all you really appear to be about I lose interest.

    That's why I enjoy a band like Radiohead. Yeah, they can be mopey, but they can also bear to write about, you know, things in life that don't suck ass.

    For the record I don't deny Tool contains a number of very talented people. I've seen them live, and they're damn good. But Jesus, cheer the fuck up.

    Original Rufus on
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    My problem with Tool is this: if Tool were a single person, he would be utterly intolerable. Imagine spending a few hours with a dude who lived to constantly inundate you with dark, caustic shit, occasionally taking breaks to tell you about people he hates. How often would you hang out with this man?

    That's the sort of material I can deal with in small doses, but when that's all you really appear to be about I lose interest.

    That's why I enjoy a band like Radiohead. Yeah, they can be mopey, but they can also bear to write about, you know, things in life that don't suck ass.

    For the record I don't deny Tool contains a number of very talented people. I've seen them live, and they're damn good. But Jesus, cheer the fuck up.

    See that's the thing

    What really gives a band longetivity is variety, in topic, sound, style, instruments, anything.

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • real_pochaccoreal_pochacco Registered User
    edited July 2007
    I don't really find it depressing. In particular, I find songs like Parabol/Parabola and Lateralus intensely uplifting in the deepest way.

    Re: Tool in concert, it was funny when he commented about the people moshing in the pit. It was something like, "How do you guys like the music?" and the crowd goes yay and he's like, "No, not the people fighting, the people actually listening to it."

    Seriously though, why would you mosh at a Tool concert?

    real_pochacco on
  • imbalancedimbalanced Registered User
    edited July 2007
    I don't really find it depressing. In particular, I find songs like Parabol/Parabola and Lateralus intensely uplifting in the deepest way.

    Plus they make me drive faster. I've never been late to work listening to Tool.

    imbalanced on
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    Wii Code: 1040-1320-0724-3613 :!!:
  • DesertBoxDesertBox Registered User
    edited July 2007
    I'm so ignorant, I just like Tool because it sounds cool.

    Do you see the error of your ways? If I have to explain it to you, you're beyond saving.

    DesertBox on
    Made you click!
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    imbalanced wrote: »
    I don't really find it depressing. In particular, I find songs like Parabol/Parabola and Lateralus intensely uplifting in the deepest way.

    Plus they make me drive faster. I've never been late to work listening to Tool.

    Such benefits are always pleasant

    I listen to Children of Bodom to wake up in the morning.

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • Original RufusOriginal Rufus Registered User
    edited July 2007
    I've always appreciated Dream Theater for the over the top self-indulgence, but the one thing I give them credit for above Tool is their predisposition to have much more variety in their content, and to a lesser extent, their sound.

    Original Rufus on
  • MuragoMurago Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Not to kill this debate, but this really comes down to personal preference. Lets reduce this to the absurd.

    Debate A: The best cheese is Limburger, its an aquired taste that can only be enjoyed after some time. Anyone who likes Cheddar is obviously too simple minded to really enjoy limburger.

    Debate B: The enjoyment of limburger is for pretentious foodies who think they are above the rest of us. there is nothing wrong with with loving the simplicity of cheddar.

    Debate C: I enjoy either as long as it tastes good. Whether is limburger fried together with bacon, or cheddar sauteed with onions - i'm happy if it tastes good!

    Like, any way you argue it, it just comes down to you're point of view. WHAT IS THIS, FOX NEWS?

    Murago on
    Check out www.myspace.com/scarborough -- tell me what you think!
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    My problem with Tool is this: if Tool were a single person, he would be utterly intolerable. Imagine spending a few hours with a dude who lived to constantly inundate you with dark, caustic shit, occasionally taking breaks to tell you about people he hates. How often would you hang out with this man?

    That's the sort of material I can deal with in small doses, but when that's all you really appear to be about I lose interest.

    That's why I enjoy a band like Radiohead. Yeah, they can be mopey, but they can also bear to write about, you know, things in life that don't suck ass.

    For the record I don't deny Tool contains a number of very talented people. I've seen them live, and they're damn good. But Jesus, cheer the fuck up.

    Tool has a lot of uplifting songs. Like said above, Parabol/Parabola and Lateralus are very good songs. The whole Lateralus album was about reconciliation / being good to one another.

    mugginns on
    E26cO.jpg
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Jesus Christ, some people need a dose of Anti Stupid Cream.

    I like early Dream Theater. Unlike most of you naysayers, I've actually listened to enough of Prog rock to distinguish various styles from one another.

    A comparison that lumps Tool and DT together is laughably inane.

    I guess since I like some Prog I must be pretentious, huh. Oh, but wait, seems I like other music too! TIME PARADOX.

    Grow up, idiots.

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • Original RufusOriginal Rufus Registered User
    edited July 2007
    mugginns wrote: »
    My problem with Tool is this: if Tool were a single person, he would be utterly intolerable. Imagine spending a few hours with a dude who lived to constantly inundate you with dark, caustic shit, occasionally taking breaks to tell you about people he hates. How often would you hang out with this man?

    That's the sort of material I can deal with in small doses, but when that's all you really appear to be about I lose interest.

    That's why I enjoy a band like Radiohead. Yeah, they can be mopey, but they can also bear to write about, you know, things in life that don't suck ass.

    For the record I don't deny Tool contains a number of very talented people. I've seen them live, and they're damn good. But Jesus, cheer the fuck up.

    Tool has a lot of uplifting songs. Like said above, Parabol/Parabola and Lateralus are very good songs. The whole Lateralus album was about reconciliation / being good to one another.

    While I agree that a lot of Lateralus has some generally less negative themes, the presentation is certainly nothing I think most people would describe as "uplifting."

    Original Rufus on
  • Vrtra TheoryVrtra Theory Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    While I agree that a lot of Lateralus has some generally less negative themes, the presentation is certainly nothing I think most people would describe as "uplifting."

    Uplifting music is very depressing.

    Vrtra Theory on
    Are you a Software Engineer living in Seattle? HBO is hiring, message me.
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    While I agree that a lot of Lateralus has some generally less negative themes, the presentation is certainly nothing I think most people would describe as "uplifting."
    I embrace my desire to
    feel the rhythm, to feel connected
    enough to step aside and weep like a widow
    to feel inspired, to fathom the power,
    to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain,
    to swing on the spiral
    of our divinity and still be a human.
    With my feet upon the ground I lose myself
    between the sounds and open wide to suck it in,
    I feel it move across my skin.
    I'm reaching up and reaching out,
    I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
    And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
    We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.



    I dunno, that kind of stuff I find uplifting.

    mugginns on
    E26cO.jpg
  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    How the fuck is this thread not about King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Genesis, or Alan Parson Project?

    necroSYS on
    There's no point in you getting both of yourselves all worked up and ready to chart the undiscovered country, then having her flush crimson red, run to the bathroom, and spend twenty minutes straining and grunting and stressing out because you're all ready to deliver your package but there's a three inch thick Sunday paper clogging up the mail slot.
  • Original RufusOriginal Rufus Registered User
    edited July 2007
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, some people need a dose of Anti Stupid Cream.

    I like early Dream Theater. Unlike most of you naysayers, I've actually listened to enough of Prog rock to distinguish various styles from one another.

    A comparison that lumps Tool and DT together is laughably inane.

    I guess since I like some Prog I must be pretentious, huh. Oh, but wait, seems I like other music too! TIME PARADOX.

    Grow up, idiots.

    So can I summarize your points as "Hey! All of you people whose musical experience I'm not even remotely familiar with outside of a very narrowly focused discussion! How dare you compare two bands both known for their technical excellence, progressive tendencies and occasional masturbatory indulgence!"

    For what reason can two bands not be compared and contrasted? It's entirely possible to discern the differences between apples and oranges. They each have their potential strengths and weaknesses, and at least enough in common to get a discussion going. When we begin comparing Tool to the political landscape of 19th century London, get back to us.

    It's only pretentious to quibble and separate music behind stark, inalienable boundaries.
    necroSYS wrote: »
    How the fuck is this thread not about Captain Beefheart

    Fixed for awesome.

    Original Rufus on
  • necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    necroSYS wrote: »
    How the fuck is this thread also not about Styx

    Fixed for awesome.


    Fixed for you being wrong.

    necroSYS on
    There's no point in you getting both of yourselves all worked up and ready to chart the undiscovered country, then having her flush crimson red, run to the bathroom, and spend twenty minutes straining and grunting and stressing out because you're all ready to deliver your package but there's a three inch thick Sunday paper clogging up the mail slot.
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, some people need a dose of Anti Stupid Cream.

    I like early Dream Theater. Unlike most of you naysayers, I've actually listened to enough of Prog rock to distinguish various styles from one another.

    A comparison that lumps Tool and DT together is laughably inane.

    I guess since I like some Prog I must be pretentious, huh. Oh, but wait, seems I like other music too! TIME PARADOX.

    Grow up, idiots.

    So can I summarize your points as "Hey! All of you people whose musical experience I'm not even remotely familiar with outside of a very narrowly focused discussion! How dare you compare two bands both known for their technical excellence, progressive tendencies and occasional masturbatory indulgence!"

    For what reason can two bands not be compared and contrasted? It's entirely possible to discern the differences between apples and oranges. They each have their potential strengths and weaknesses, and at least enough in common to get a discussion going. When we begin comparing Tool to the political landscape of 19th century London, get back to us.

    It's only pretentious to quibble and separate music behind stark, inalienable boundaries.

    What the fuck are you babbling about? I love lots of Prog, but I'm saying Tool and DT are very different.

    Please read next time.

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • Original RufusOriginal Rufus Registered User
    edited July 2007
    MikeMan wrote: »
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, some people need a dose of Anti Stupid Cream.

    I like early Dream Theater. Unlike most of you naysayers, I've actually listened to enough of Prog rock to distinguish various styles from one another.

    A comparison that lumps Tool and DT together is laughably inane.

    I guess since I like some Prog I must be pretentious, huh. Oh, but wait, seems I like other music too! TIME PARADOX.

    Grow up, idiots.

    So can I summarize your points as "Hey! All of you people whose musical experience I'm not even remotely familiar with outside of a very narrowly focused discussion! How dare you compare two bands both known for their technical excellence, progressive tendencies and occasional masturbatory indulgence!"

    For what reason can two bands not be compared and contrasted? It's entirely possible to discern the differences between apples and oranges. They each have their potential strengths and weaknesses, and at least enough in common to get a discussion going. When we begin comparing Tool to the political landscape of 19th century London, get back to us.

    It's only pretentious to quibble and separate music behind stark, inalienable boundaries.

    What the fuck are you babbling about? I love lots of Prog, but I'm saying Tool and DT are very different.

    Please read next time.

    Well, it seems to me you're suggesting that it's stupid to compare those two bands, apparently from the platform that you know more about the topic than most people here.

    I then countered with my contention that no, you can in fact do exactly that, and see no reason why one couldn't.
    Please read next time.

    Original Rufus on
  • CptKemzikCptKemzik Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    necroSYS wrote: »
    How the fuck is this thread not about King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Genesis, or Alan Parson Project?

    Poldy is apparently not familiar with truly pretentious prog rock.

    CptKemzik on
  • Original RufusOriginal Rufus Registered User
    edited July 2007
    So do you guys draw a line between "progressive" and "experimental?"

    I find it hard to call Mr. Bungle progressive in the same sense that I might refer to King Crimson.

    Original Rufus on
  • flamebroiledchickenflamebroiledchicken Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    My problem with Tool is more that lyrics like "i want to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human" sound like they're deep, but when you step back and think about it as a sentence, it doesn't actually mean anything. And most of Lateralus is like that; for fuck's sake, The Grudge is a song about astrology! Astrology! "Saturn ascends the one, the ten"? What does that even mean? Astrology is retarded!

    I liked them better when they were writing songs like "Hooker with a Penis" and "Sober"

    flamebroiledchicken on
    y59kydgzuja4.png
  • NarianNarian Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Only Prog-y stuff I listen to is probably Conception.

    Narian on
    Narian.gif
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    the funny thing is this thread is self-defeating. All the pretention is coming from the prog-haters end of the court

    nexuscrawler on
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2007
    Heh, Tool is to metal lyrics as Red Hot Chili Peppers is to rock lyrics. Unfortunately, the vast majority of exposed music has shitty, pseudo-deep lyrics that, upon deeper investigation, make absolutely no sense.

    Wonder_Hippie on
    Your sig was too tall. -Thanatos
    Feral wrote: »
    MikeMan wrote: »
    i'm just a loveologist
    love me some lovin'
    gonna study up on lovin'

    Ain't no problem you can't solve in loveology with a larger sample size.
  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    WorLord wrote: »
    No dumber than the statement it is responding to.
    Fight fire with gasoline! Woo! If the other guy does it, it means it's just fine for me too!
    WorLord wrote: »
    You clearly have little idea of what this word actually means. So stop using it.

    pre·ten·tious /prɪˈtɛnʃəs/ Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
    –adjective
    1. full of pretense or pretension.
    2. characterized by assumption of dignity or importance.
    3. making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.


    You were PRETENDING to be smarter than other people.
    You ASSUMED that those who do not share your love of prog dickery are SIMPLE-MINDED.

    And now you've assumed the PRETENSE that I don't know what "pretentious" means, when in fact it is you who does not know. Good show!

    Time for some BROAD SWEEPING STATEMENTS:

    1) Close To The Edge is the best prog album ever made.
    2) Mastodon rules and are in fact a progressive band.
    3) Tool sucks are and shitty and if you like them you are also shitty and you suck.

    The Cheese on
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