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Prog and other unlistenable music
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Enh, I agree that their lyrics have gotten a bit harder to choke down with time, but when they are good, they are still really, really good. Vicarious and Jambi are probably two of my favorite songs of their entire discography, and they're on Tool's most concept-y album to date.
I like heavy metal, and rock music as much as the next guy, but prog-metal just makes it all the more interesting.
The cheesier the music is, the more I'm willing to forgive inane lyrics. Hence, part of the reason I like Dream Theater. I always find a lot to love in cheesy metal.
But, once the music begins to appear as though it takes itself seriously, my tolerance for said lyrics degrades. Hence, part of the reason I occasionally don't like Dream Theater, and in this context, Tool.
I did not say it was stupid to compare the bands, I said Poldy's lumping of them into the same category was stupid. And I don't know where you get the impression that I know more than most people. I just know more about prog rock than many people in this thread who make ignorant statements do. That's because I'm a fan. I would think that's self evident.
Of course you can compare the two bands. Why would you think you couldn't? You can't lump them together and ignore the differences between the two, however. That's like saying Jethro Tull and Yes are the same shit. It's a statement born of ignorance.
Welcome to the internet, where you don't have to treat utter retardation with respect.
It doesn't get much more incorrect than this.
The originating retarded statement - that complex music was "ridiculous, bloated, and pretentious" - is retarded. I made my case by stating its exact opposite.
Next time, just for you and any other third-grade reading level peeps, I'll be sure to include my "sarcasm" tags, but I really didn't think I had to, given the flippancy of the way I wrote my response.
You can't assume a pretense. In fact, that sentence makes little sense.
You should have said "time for some falsehoods," as you're only really good at those.
As an aside, I just want to state how much I LOVE the fact that you're coming down on me, when Podly's stance painted with an equally insulting and wide brush. Why didn't you get your panties all in a dither in his direction?
hey, i have plenty of friends
I honestly wasn't too big on 10,000 Days. I liked it, to be sure, but to me it was just sort of a "Lateralus 2"... Not that there's anything wrong with that. That is a special album for me.
I thought 10,000 days had a much stronger message, if only because of how much more connected Maynard was to the concept.
10,000 days is the only modern Tool I've heard. A friend of mine, years ago, tried to get me into them, so I started listening to the discography from the beginning. The problem with that is that apparently the first two albums... really suck, and aren't indicative of later Tool.
So I had written them off as a crap band until I heard Jambi on the radio. I like about half of 10k days now (its hard to like the other half, as its mostly filler and minutes worth of weird sounds).
Wikipedia
Apparently it's anything with a distorted guitar that poldy doesn't like.
Normally it's used to describe music that doesn't fall square in the middle of a particular genre of metal or rock, or uses elements of other types of music that aren't normally found in traditional metal or rock.
*polite chuckle*
you sound like my mother. Song lyrics aren't necessarily supposed to have a concrete meaning. If you want to hear stories in your songs, fine, go find yourself some Johnny Cash or whatever, but recognise that there are other ways to do things.
Seriously, though... lyrics are pretty much secondary to the music for me. If they happen to not be about how much it sucks to be a white male adolescent, so much the better. Tool was great for that, in much the same way that Metallica was great for not talking about dungeons and vipers and altars and hair.
This is how I feel about it. There are some songs that are more poetic than others, and I think Tool is more on the poetic end with albums like Lateralus. That sentence, by the way, means a lot to me -- I could go into my personal relation to that line, but I don't think you want to hear it.
And The Grude is definitely not about astrology, good god.
That is great.
So, almost everything? Got it.
Are we listening to the same Metallica? Whiplash, Metal Militia, Escape, The Thing That Should Not Be, etc.?
I enjoy Metallica but to say they don't write lyrics about cliché things is fuckin silly.
you take that back about the chili peppers.
he is my favorite lyricist.
unless it was your way of saying Tool is awesome.
Ha!
Well, to be fair, it wasn't claw-your-ears-out-with-an-icepick bad. I just found most of the songs to have been overlong and terribly repetitive, and not at all the stuff that near-religious-experiences are made of (which is how a few people I know treated Tool).
I think I'm going to go back and listen to the previous two CD's, I'm told that's where the action is at.
I... uhhh...
The fucker runs out of words in Around the World. He runs out of words for an entire verse. He spouts gibberish for an entire verse. Your favorite lyricist has the writing skill of a 1-year-old.
In terms of actual vocal delivery Kiedes is pretty good, but I'd have to agree about his actual lyrics. They would be the weak link of an otherwise awesome band.
man he doesn't run out of words. you can't understand it. that's the point.
Was this a serious post?
I'm actually curious.
edit - but he doesn't run out of words. people don't actually ever do that in songs... so saying that's the reason is obviously ridiculous. if he sings gibberish, as with any other singer, it's because that's what he wanted to sing right there.
so that in and of itself isn't a great reason to say he's bad. if you don't like him, I totally get that, but I very much do.
This is a terrible thread.
Not to mention Creeping Death, Wherever I May Roam, Call of Kutulu, etc.
Your music is bad and you should feel bad!
is the correct response.
I am surprised at the hate here for progressive rock in general though, as there is a lot of it which is in the mainstream and isn't pure wankery. Looking through the bands on the wikipedia page classified as prog rock the ones I recognized and have listened to are some of my favorites of rock, even if they have have some songs which are rather obtuse.
1) No, you were definitely acting like Mr. Fucking Smarty Pants
2) Yes you can assume a pretense. A pretense is (if I may quote the dictionary again) a "a false show of something" or "a piece of make-believe". The make-believe in this case is that you are smarter than other people because you listen to music written in 14/8 or whatever.
3) I've come down on Poldy before, no need to get back into that. You're doing that thing where you act like because somebody else is being an idiot, it's OK for you to do it too.
And the OP basically said if you do like prog you're stupid.
This thread is retarded.
I hate Tool, but I don't hate them because they're overblown and ridiculous. I listen to Dream Theatre every once and a while. There is no inherent goodness in music just because it is in weird time signatures with weird chords, but no inherent badness either.
But let's be serious, anyway. Dream Theatre has not been worthy of the name 'progressive' for a long time. All of their albums sound the same, they aren't progressing anywhere.
Yeah everything after SFAM has been pretty bad, IMO. But whatevs.
I feel that there is an extremely fine line here... I am a huge progressive rock fan, and one of the reasons I listen to so much of it is because of the complex syncopated rhythms and varying time signatures. However, even though I think most would agree that playing in 29/8 is more mentally taxing, and ergo, intellectual (as far as keeping time goes) than playing in 4/4, I think that very few people would listen to something in 29/8 just to feel superior to those who would not be able to follow the rhythm.
Whether or not you think that being good with unconventional meter makes you smarter, I listen to it because it interests me, the same way that I read stuff like 'House of Leaves' as opposed to reading stuff like 'The Catcher in the Rye'. I would not consider the latter especially complex with respect to language or structure, but it is nonetheless good, and certainly visceral. I still find the former more rewarding. To think that I enjoy progressive rock and Danielewski because I have some bizarre inferiority complex is itself a pretense.
I honestly think Train of Thought was their best album. But that's just me. I haven't enjoyed much of their work since then.
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I know lots of people (hey, most of them even play instruments) who listen to music like Dream Theater entirely because it is difficult to play, and they will often scoff at playing a simple piece. In short, their full of shit.
Now I know you probably don't listen to Dream Theater to feel superior, but a lot of people do. Some people feel that listening to this kind of music is literally above listening something like the Beatles. These people usually make a huge impression on others. I think that's why bands like Dream Theater incite such venomous outcry , because some of their fans are fucking annoying.
If a band has a few douchey fans, therefore all their fans are and so is the band.
I even like RHCP, Blood Sugar Sex Magik days at least, but this poppy shit they're pumping out hurts my amygdala. It's just nonsensical crap for the most part; I will respect the fact that he can deliver decent combinations of words, but it's like a schizophrenic patient with word salad, in that it makes sense grammatically but has absolutely no substance.