Frog can be very useful early game because the Triple tech with Crono+Robo+Frog is one of the earliest (if not the earliest) one you can get. Its especially useful vs Magus. Slurp Kiss dual tech is also very useful heal all double tech, and you have to have Ayla in your party for the next area after Magus. Late game he is really kinda meh until Frog Flare though.
Anyway, reguarding other stuff above, honestly, its fun to discuss how time travel might work in the setting provided.
I dunno, I can only take it so far when we're talking about what I consider to be a simple and lighthearted game--things it ceases to be when we leave the game's mechanics and enter the realm of theoretical physics :P
And to clarify, I was talking about Frog late-game, and I have made a point of getting all possible techs by now. Despite having it, I don't remember ever using Frog Flare. What is its usefulness?
EDIT: Frog is not the only one with a multi-healing spell; Robo has one too that I found to be better.
I liked this thread better when we were talking about the game. Now my head just hurts.
It's fiction, a fantasy. The rules of physics can and will contradict themselves. Do we have discussions like this every time an Ocarina of Time, Prince of Persia etc. thread comes up? Can't we just say, Time Paradox, or how about "A Wizard Did It"? I like that one.
I love Chrono Trigger. It's probably the only RPG with a large (bigger than your party limit) cast of characters that I find good reasons for using every one of them. I usually have to make a tough decision every boss battle. There are multiple ways to use your party effectively and none are really "wrong." The only character I find somewhat dispensable in most situations is Frog, because while his physical attacks are good, his techs are pretty mediocre because of his magic stat. I equip him with magic-enhancing gear, but I hesitate to use magic tabs on him because it feels like a waste. Maybe my battle strategies are just ill-suited to using Frog. From reading the thread it seems like there are some of you who have opposite sentiments towards the cloaked amphibian. Anyone want to share your strategies for using Frog in battle?
Isn't Frog the only character who knows a multi-target healing spell?
The question is, what effect does something leaving their own time have. When Ayla leaves 65million BC, how does the timeline 'know' that she will be back. Otherwise, the instant she leaves the future she travels to should exist as if she vanished from the timeline the instant she stepped in the gate.
Cure 2 is single target. The single character (Frog and Robo) multi-target heals are hurt by the fact that they have craptastic magic stats, but Double Heal (Frog + Robo) is pretty good too.
Frog Flare does a lot of damage as a base, and does more the lower Frog's HP is.
kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
you can keep your party going throughout most of the game just having frog "heal" each turn.
if the boss hasn't caused many problems you can heal to max everyone out
if the boss hits a single party member hard he can cure2 them
if the boss causes more damage than heal takes care of then frog can heal and another party member can burn a lapis, or use a dual tech with frog to heal everyone. You could also use heal with frog and have another character burn a tonic on anyone that needs it.
in addition, frog has the strongest dual tech in the game with lucca, and that'd explain my ideal maxxed out party -- frog, lucca, and chrono. You have every important element in this group, too, for specific circumstances. The only real problem you'd have is that the frog flare dual tech probably hits harder than the group's triple tech but I consider this more of a bonus than a problem.
course he may not be the ideal character in most spots of the game but he's a good all-around guy.
I got a lot of use out of frog and chrono's spire attack. especially against the Golems (I think thats what they were called...The things that Dalton kept sending out after you), and Giga Gaia.
So! Every time a Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross thread comes up, people mention how the music during the fight with Miguel is basically the best music known to man. Does anyone know the title of that track?
It's "People Imprisoned by Destiny" on the OST.
I think the maimed translation became "People Seized with Life".
Also, it took me about 5 years to find the Gold Rock.
Cure 2 is single target. The single character (Frog and Robo) multi-target heals are hurt by the fact that they have craptastic magic stats, but Double Heal (Frog + Robo) is pretty good too.
Frog Flare does a lot of damage as a base, and does more the lower Frog's HP is.
I loved busting out Frog Flare and Dino Tail against Queen Zeal. If you're going to drop me to 1 HP, you better be ready for me to bring the pain.
The problem I always ran into with Frog was doing low level runs through the game. Heal just doen't cut it when you have 500ish hp, the boss can hit for 300ish on everyone, and heal only heals for 150.
Frog makes up for his mediocrity by being a badass motherfucking talking Frog.
I'm rather interested in that if we ever get a re-release or remake or whatever eventually, if they'll go back and fix up the translation like they did with the FF GBA releases. I'm not one of those translation zealots who bitches when they forgot a "the" in the script, and Woosley did a damn fine job with the script. But it was also on the tail end before RPG's got the respect they deserved and censorship was finally a thing of the past. Reading this has shown that he got it mostly right, but there were quite a few bits here and there that could have been better. Heck, according to Wikipedia, Woosley only had 30 days to translate all of CT's script.
For instance, apparently Frog never did talk with his old english style and wasn't the typical white knight. He spoke rather rudely, which makes sense in a way, since if you got turned into a frog, you'd probably be a little pissed too. Also makes sense because not only does nobody else in the middle ages era talks like that, he doesn't even when when he's human Glenn.
I wonder though, if this would be something akin to "Spoony bard", and if they took out his Thee's and Thou's if everybody would shit a brick.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Yeah, usually do the same thing against Zeal. The Gold Rock is probably the most redicusly hidden things in the game. I found it completely on accident (and the only reason Frog happened to be in the lead is because he's awesome.)
I loved busting out Frog Flare and Dino Tail against Queen Zeal. If you're going to drop me to 1 HP, you better be ready for me to bring the pain.
Good point. But in typical situations, I rarely end up using those types of techs because like hell if I'm going to let my guys' HP drop below 50%. I don't take many risks there.
The fact that you cannot go back to it once it is destroyed makes it even more awesome (since you 'miss' it)
Which is silly if you stop to think about it. You can go back 13000 years, but you can't go back 10 days.
The Epoch. The pinnacle of one mans hopes and dreams. The desire to go back and forth through time itself. The damn thing only has 6 settings. Seems in all his planning, ol' Balthazar never did think to put a second hand on the dial.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
That probably ought to be spoiler'd. That was a pretty big plot point IIRC.
A hell of a lot worse has already been spoiled in this thread. But whatever. Better safe than sorry.
This is true, but I'd bet that someone who hasn't made a full playthrough won't want to read pages and pages and pages and pages about time paradoxes and other such nonsense.
If I could play any other instrument, it would be electric bass. Then, I would pop all three discs of my actual official Chrono Trigger soundtrack (borrowed it from a high school friend who never asked for it back) and rock out to those tunes all day.
You are just the worst kind of person.
I asked him a few weeks before we graduated if he wanted that and his FFVI soundtrack back. He said I could keep them. Which is good, because he and his brother did not take care of those discs. They were very scratched. They came to me for protection.
The simple way of explaining this would be to consider the notion of a "universal clock". You may go back and forth through time, but the universal clock keeps ticking, and the game and story neither does nor requires any precision in its time travel. Example:
The date is March 1st, 1000 AD. The group decides to go back in time to 600 AD. When they arrive, the date is March 1st, 600 AD. They spend 3 days there before returning to the future. So it's March 4th, 600 AD, and when they get back, it's March 4th, 1000 AD.
I thought it was pretty obvious during the game that this is what was happening. All this rewriting the timeline/recreating the characters on jumps, while interesting in theory, is needlessly complicated.
I think it even says this in some of the dialogue.
Its pretty funny how people like to make it more complicated so they can act pretentious about it, though.
And just where was anyone acting pretentious? It was merely a discussion on time travel.
this thread has inspired me to bump chrono cross up to the top of my backlog.
I couldn't get into it back in the day and either traded it or gave it to someone as a gift. I ebayed a few months ago and tomorrow I start in on it.
this thread has inspired me to bump chrono cross up to the top of my backlog.
I couldn't get into it back in the day and either traded it or gave it to someone as a gift. I ebayed a few months ago and tomorrow I start in on it.
I would try CC also, but Oblivion is at the top of my backlog.
Gooey on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
I wish Frog were better, because he is so badass. Also, I now name him Glenn half the time.
this thread has inspired me to bump chrono cross up to the top of my backlog.
I couldn't get into it back in the day and either traded it or gave it to someone as a gift. I ebayed a few months ago and tomorrow I start in on it.
The question is, what effect does something leaving their own time have. When Ayla leaves 65million BC, how does the timeline 'know' that she will be back. Otherwise, the instant she leaves the future she travels to should exist as if she vanished from the timeline the instant she stepped in the gate.
It doesn't, and it doesn't need to. Imagine that you are in a hallway and you step into a room. Slightly further down there's another doorway in that room that exits back into the hall you came from. You go through this second door. Does the hallway know you'll be coming back? Does it need to? The time line doesn't either. You either are or are not back and time flows on accordingly.
Returning to the past is an event that happened in the past so when you get to the future you're already back. There is no need for phantom people to take your place.
I picked up the Fantasy / Chrono discs a few weeks ago and have been playing CT since. Was my favorite game when i got it the Christmas came out, and i have to say it still is. Last night i finally hopped into Epoch.. I fucking got chills, and stared at it for 5 minutes before taking off.
I picked up the Fantasy / Chrono discs a few weeks ago and have been playing CT since. Was my favorite game when i got it the Christmas came out, and i have to say it still is. Last night i finally hopped into Epoch.. I fucking got chills, and stared at it for 5 minutes before taking off.
I always use Crono / Frog / Marle. They're a really good mix.
Making Frog the best he can be:
You DO keep him equipped with the Masamune + Hero Medal, right? It gives him something like a 50%+ chance to get a critical hit.
Endgame Frog spoiler:
You can also power up the Masamune by doing the side quest where you put Cyrus's ghost to rest. This ends up making it one of the most powerful weapons in the game, and STILL gets the critical hit bonus from the Hero Medal.
If he's STILL not good enough for you... well, damn. I don't know what to tell you.
The PrismSpecs make everything 25% better (both normal attacks, magic attacks, and any damaging tech... not sure if it affects healing though). The hero metal is damn nice if you put the PrismSpecs on someone else, but they really are the best accessory.
I find that giving Glenn the PrismSpecs is a much better choice than the Hero Medal.
really?
Really. You do more damage on every attack, and every two attacks has enough extra damage to make up for a crit. When you crit it does more damage than with the Hero medal on, and you can always use Leap Slash if you want to push out a bit more cheap damage.
Barrakketh on
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
Probably here too late to help, but anyhow, it's great seeing such a huge spontaneous discussion. The fixed date of the birthday is August 22nd, since that's what an ancient usenet post confirmed as the first day it was shipped. I think Gamefaqs still lists the wrong date of September 19 or 29.
Looks like there was some paradox discussion going on...Trigger suffered from that a hell of a lot more than Cross because it was a collaboration. Yuji Horii's lighthearted style probably didn't translate well to rigid internal logic, and adding in Masato Kato's 12000 B.C. era complicated things. Right now, the CT plot hole count is at 4; the CC is at 1. Kato basically did all of Chrono Cross with Hiromichi Tanaka producing, so it's almost perfectly internally consistent (if not hard to understand due to the pacing). There are still some big mysteries surrounding the game, like the thing with the Dead Sea...but these aren't self-contradicting or anything like plot holes.
Anyway, thought I'd stop by. www.chrono-crisis.com just launched. Since it's not a 3D project, they probably won't get a cease and desist letter like the others.
Posts
I dunno, I can only take it so far when we're talking about what I consider to be a simple and lighthearted game--things it ceases to be when we leave the game's mechanics and enter the realm of theoretical physics :P
And to clarify, I was talking about Frog late-game, and I have made a point of getting all possible techs by now. Despite having it, I don't remember ever using Frog Flare. What is its usefulness?
EDIT: Frog is not the only one with a multi-healing spell; Robo has one too that I found to be better.
Marle learns cure 2 and robo learns heal beam.
The question is, what effect does something leaving their own time have. When Ayla leaves 65million BC, how does the timeline 'know' that she will be back. Otherwise, the instant she leaves the future she travels to should exist as if she vanished from the timeline the instant she stepped in the gate.
I am a freaking nerd.
that's why I ended up using him every single playthrough. Who cares if he's probably the crappiest character overall! He's a frog and he has a sword!
Frog Flare does a lot of damage as a base, and does more the lower Frog's HP is.
I am a freaking nerd.
if the boss hasn't caused many problems you can heal to max everyone out
if the boss hits a single party member hard he can cure2 them
if the boss causes more damage than heal takes care of then frog can heal and another party member can burn a lapis, or use a dual tech with frog to heal everyone. You could also use heal with frog and have another character burn a tonic on anyone that needs it.
in addition, frog has the strongest dual tech in the game with lucca, and that'd explain my ideal maxxed out party -- frog, lucca, and chrono. You have every important element in this group, too, for specific circumstances. The only real problem you'd have is that the frog flare dual tech probably hits harder than the group's triple tech but I consider this more of a bonus than a problem.
course he may not be the ideal character in most spots of the game but he's a good all-around guy.
I think the maimed translation became "People Seized with Life".
Also, it took me about 5 years to find the Gold Rock.
I loved busting out Frog Flare and Dino Tail against Queen Zeal. If you're going to drop me to 1 HP, you better be ready for me to bring the pain.
Overall he is pretty good though.
I am a freaking nerd.
I'm rather interested in that if we ever get a re-release or remake or whatever eventually, if they'll go back and fix up the translation like they did with the FF GBA releases. I'm not one of those translation zealots who bitches when they forgot a "the" in the script, and Woosley did a damn fine job with the script. But it was also on the tail end before RPG's got the respect they deserved and censorship was finally a thing of the past. Reading this has shown that he got it mostly right, but there were quite a few bits here and there that could have been better. Heck, according to Wikipedia, Woosley only had 30 days to translate all of CT's script.
For instance, apparently Frog never did talk with his old english style and wasn't the typical white knight. He spoke rather rudely, which makes sense in a way, since if you got turned into a frog, you'd probably be a little pissed too. Also makes sense because not only does nobody else in the middle ages era talks like that, he doesn't even when when he's human Glenn.
I wonder though, if this would be something akin to "Spoony bard", and if they took out his Thee's and Thou's if everybody would shit a brick.
I am a freaking nerd.
Yeah, that's true. I probably wouldn't have much reason to use him at all if this were the case. But it's just not enough for me, sadly.
Good point. But in typical situations, I rarely end up using those types of techs because like hell if I'm going to let my guys' HP drop below 50%. I don't take many risks there.
The Epoch. The pinnacle of one mans hopes and dreams. The desire to go back and forth through time itself. The damn thing only has 6 settings. Seems in all his planning, ol' Balthazar never did think to put a second hand on the dial.
That probably ought to be spoiler'd. That was a pretty big plot point IIRC.
A hell of a lot worse has already been spoiled in this thread. But whatever. Better safe than sorry.
This is true, but I'd bet that someone who hasn't made a full playthrough won't want to read pages and pages and pages and pages about time paradoxes and other such nonsense.
I asked him a few weeks before we graduated if he wanted that and his FFVI soundtrack back. He said I could keep them. Which is good, because he and his brother did not take care of those discs. They were very scratched. They came to me for protection.
I couldn't get into it back in the day and either traded it or gave it to someone as a gift. I ebayed a few months ago and tomorrow I start in on it.
I would try CC also, but Oblivion is at the top of my backlog.
I do the same, hi5
Me too just started playing yesterday.
It doesn't, and it doesn't need to. Imagine that you are in a hallway and you step into a room. Slightly further down there's another doorway in that room that exits back into the hall you came from. You go through this second door. Does the hallway know you'll be coming back? Does it need to? The time line doesn't either. You either are or are not back and time flows on accordingly.
Returning to the past is an event that happened in the past so when you get to the future you're already back. There is no need for phantom people to take your place.
0431-6094-6446-7088
Shit yes! Epoch away!
it only gets better
I always use Crono / Frog / Marle. They're a really good mix.
Making Frog the best he can be:
Endgame Frog spoiler:
If he's STILL not good enough for you... well, damn. I don't know what to tell you.
really?
I am a freaking nerd.
Really. You do more damage on every attack, and every two attacks has enough extra damage to make up for a crit. When you crit it does more damage than with the Hero medal on, and you can always use Leap Slash if you want to push out a bit more cheap damage.
Looks like there was some paradox discussion going on...Trigger suffered from that a hell of a lot more than Cross because it was a collaboration. Yuji Horii's lighthearted style probably didn't translate well to rigid internal logic, and adding in Masato Kato's 12000 B.C. era complicated things. Right now, the CT plot hole count is at 4; the CC is at 1. Kato basically did all of Chrono Cross with Hiromichi Tanaka producing, so it's almost perfectly internally consistent (if not hard to understand due to the pacing). There are still some big mysteries surrounding the game, like the thing with the Dead Sea...but these aren't self-contradicting or anything like plot holes.
Anyway, thought I'd stop by. www.chrono-crisis.com just launched. Since it's not a 3D project, they probably won't get a cease and desist letter like the others.
A-u-t-o-matic!
Shitty sprites and character designs are shitty.
I am a freaking nerd.
Crisis is not my site or project.
A-u-t-o-matic!