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You've got a trailer with a white guy with a gun killing a whole bunch of black people, and only black people, all of which are armed with basically farm tools, and you think there isn't going to be some kind of backlash?
I don't think the game is racist, but you are stupid if you can't see how it would seem weird to people. Heck, I know they're zombies, and it still felt odd to see that trailer.
RE4 has a white guy with a gun killing a whole bunch of eastern europeans, and only them, in a very primitive backwards town, all of which were armed with rudimentary tools.
This is an actual case of "trivializing". No, there are very few places on earth today going through as much shit as haiti and darfur. That's why you won't see those places on SNL.
Ok, so all gamers must be heartless insensitive assholes, because they think that games are more important than respecting the hardships of others.
I'm not even saying that RE5 should be forbidden or anything. My point is that it is TASTELESS. And it damn sure is.
What the fuck?
Making a game in Haitai doesn't disrespect the hardships of others. That's just... I can't even form a coherent reaction. This is just too retarded for words.
Also, I don't find RE5 tasteless. So, that means it objectively isn't?
And anyway, yes, I think it's fucking tasteless to make a superficial, commercial entertainment product that will harvest millions and millions of dollars while the Haitians are living trough all kinds of shit right now.
*chortle*
Haiti is a part of the world, dude. And this isn't about the strife in Haiti. They are using it as a setting. You are suggesting that we pretend Haiti doesn't even exist, that it can't be used as a setting for a story because they have some kind of strife right now?
Grow up.
You are the one who needs to grow up, and pick up some reading comprehension skills on the way.
NO, I made it pretty clear that it's not a matter of "pretending they don't exist". Sure, if anyone decides to write a serious novel about the issue there, more power to them. After all, that's how we started hearing about Hemingway, and that's how "War and Peace" was born.
Only thing is, RE5 is really just a silly shallow entertainment product. Not matter how fun or cool it is, it's got no redeeming artistic qualities whatsoever. Making a game happen in Haiti today is as fucking tasteless as making Die Hard 5.0 in Darfur, and have John McLane make fun of the shit that's going on there.
How hard it is to understand that the world is not just a playground for you kids, that there are some real people going trough some pretty heavy shit that you cannot even begin to fathom? How hard it is for you to understand that it is fucking tasteless to make shallow games in modern day Haiti? A less brainless game, one that would take the issue seriously would be fine, but this is ridiculous.
So, you're just trolling because you don't care about RE5 - "it's shallow" - and you've decided to use this thread as a soapbox for some meaningless, racist moral crusade. I see.
How about you fuck the hell off.
Ran out of arguments?
Shit, I love RE4, and I think that RE5 is going to be really awesome in the gameplay and graphics departments. One of the games that make me want a 360 or PS3 or whatever.
But if you think that the RE series is anything but shallow in the writing department, you're fucking ignorant.
I'm saying I don't give a damn if it's the most shallow piece of crap ever.
You're missing what I'm saying and what Qonas just repeated, though much more succinctly than I had: that Haiti is a valid setting regardless of what strife they are going through.
Yeah, I have run out of arguments. I just have the one argument. And that's all I need, because you're a gigantic retard and my sole argument is 100% right. Haiti deserves to be a setting as much as Mexico, New York, Korea, Jerusalem, Iraq, Siberia, or any other place.
You've got a trailer with a white guy with a gun killing a whole bunch of black people, and only black people, all of which are armed with basically farm tools, and you think there isn't going to be some kind of backlash?
I don't think the game is racist, but you are stupid if you can't see how it would seem weird to people. Heck, I know they're zombies, and it still felt odd to see that trailer.
I dunno if you read the last two pages, but this said idea is what's being debated right now actually and I agree 100%.
It's not like you don't know what country we're in. You just can't have a white guy shooting groups of blacks and not expect there to be some noise.
A zombie game in Haiti shouldn't be taboo, but damn it doesn't really NEED to be set in Haiti which one would know will cause an uproar with the media.
Do we even know where this game is really set? I'm still going with some country in Africa.
It may not NEED to be set in Haiti, but most story settings are ultimately arbitrary decisions and there's no difference between picking Haiti or New York.
On that note, I'd love to see a corporate zombie survival game.
You can't seriously believe that...
I think it makes more sense to have a zombie game set in Haiti than it does to have it set in middle America. Zombies did spring from Voodoo beliefs and folklore after all.
Oh for crying out loud, even if you don't know about RE, the trailer makes it very clear that the villagers are murder-crazy for some reason and that Chris is only defending himself. Zombie or not, if I had a gun and I walked in an African village and everyone was trying to kill me, I think I'd shoot a couple of them, and not because I hate black people.
If people are trying to kill you of course you shoot them (if you have a gun), but viewers don't know WHY they're trying to kill you. The whole thing just reads as an outsider killing homeland people. A layman can ask too many questions to make this look odd. Like for example... why does he even have a gun?
Why the fuck is this so hard to understand? The trailer doesn't make them seem like "murder-crazy" people at all. It doesn't even make them seem like real antagonist other than the fact the player controls Chris.
Tough shit. The trailer should be interpreted in context. It's a trailer for RESIDENT EVIL FIVE for fuck's sake. If a bunch of people go "holy shit! look at this racist black-person murder simulator! holy shit!!!!" then we respectfully say "well, no, this is Resident Evil 5, and those people are zombies. Then those people go away.
The only valid complaint here is that people might take the trailer out of context and interpret this as a racist game. It's obviously not if you know one damn thing about the Resident Evil series, and if people want to crusade based on a trailer, then you simply tell them that they are wrong, and let them make whatever asses out of themselves that they want.
Sorry, but this whole debate about racism is bigoted and stupid. It's racist to suggest that Haiti - or black people - should be treated different than any other group out there. By saying this should be situated elsewhere, you are treating Haiti as inferiors, saying that for some retarded rationale they should not be the subject of a zombie game. Fuck that. They are people like anyone else. Unless Haiti has undergone some secret national zombie vaccination, they are as fictionally susceptible to it as anyone else.
So, if people want to stop racism they should stop calling things like this racist.
Treated differently? No, but whether you want to believe it or not, people are treated differently for various reasons. Hell, some people treat people with an eye piercing as some kind of mental retard when all they have is an eye piercing.
Also, I dunno if you can say people are taking the trailer out of context. The trailer has very little context and that's the problem.
I don't agree with the claims that the game is racist, but the whole "OMG how can you find this racist!?!!" is just getting a little stupid. The trailer should have probably have 20-30 seconds of background info like the intro to RE4 maybe, i dunno, but what I do know is it is very easy for someone not knowing what RE to take it the wrong way and start yelling at the top of their lungs.
"Out of context" means "ignoring/not realizing that it's part of a zombie-killing series." The trailer does not provide substantial context, I agree there. I'm saying that if it is misinterpreted because of this, then it is an easy matter of correcting whomever is misinterpreting it.
The context I refer to is that this is an RE game. If someone watches the trailer and complains about it, you simply educate them on what it is a trailer for - i.e. provide the appropriate context for them - and that's that.
I would call this game racist if like it wasn't part fucking 5 of a series and the story didn't travel from the US to Europe to now African (or Haiti).
If it was a random game that just popped up out of nowhere and you were killing masses of black people, then I'd be like "huh!?" but it's not.
Hold on...
You're saying that if a random game was set in Haiti or some African country and you were killing mostly black people in the game you'd call it racist? So, we can never have a game set in an African country (or asian, etc...) with out it being called racist? What about realism in the game? If the game is set in Africa there better damn well be black people there.
How about a game set in a mostly white neighborhood with a black protagonist? Is that racist? I'd say it's just as racist as a game where a white protagonist kills black people but you'd probably never hear the complaints about it.
How about GTA:SA? The parts of it that I played seemed to be pretty heavily racially stereotyped...
Trying to throw words in my mouth eh? You can keep on trying, but it isn't working or helping your point.
GTA:SA is full of stereotypical thug life. Game isn't all that far off base on the outer shell.
Like I said, if a random developer just made a random game and you were in Africa just shooting black people it would raise my brow. I wouldn't care, but I would find it borderline racist.
A game with a black guy shooting white people? You know, it's only going to be racist depending on the context of the violence. Is he a cop? Are they drug dealers? Mafia men? Or are they poor hobos who tried to hit him with a stick? I think a lot of people are missing the fucking point of why people are calling this racist and I admit I missed this at first myself. There's two simple things really...
1. The game looks very realistic
2. Only people who've played RE know that they're zombies. To a layman, it just looks like a white guy shooting black people from an obviously poor village. They do not read as zombies especially the fact that there's a guy speaking a language on a megaphone... what zombie does this?
I can easily see why people would find it to be racist because they just don't know what RE is. If you didn't know what RE was, you'd think this game was racist too because not only is he shooting black people, but he's shooting poor black people in a small town that seem to be just defending their territory.
Instead of making fun of every damn thing for the sake of laughs, try looking at it from a different perspective. I don't agree that the game is racist, and even I called said people claiming it is stupid, but when you look at it at the POV of someone who knows nothing about RE... it really does look racist cause they don't come off as zombies at all.
for what it's worth, i agree with pretty-much everything here. From our perspective, they're zombies, and it doesn't really matter what colour they are. To someone that's never played RE or knows the series, they see a white guy in an africa-like environment, shooting lots of black folk. That's just going to ring alarm bells.
You're a white guy, in Africa, shooting lots of black people. I don't recall any alarm bells ringing.
And unlike zombies, not all the black people in the game that you could shoot were trying to kill you.
I think it makes more sense to have a zombie game set in Haiti than it does to have it set in middle America. Zombies did spring from Voodoo beliefs and folklore after all.
Funny how the fifth game is set in Haiti whereas the first, second, and third were all set in middle America.
A zombie game in Haiti shouldn't be taboo, but damn it doesn't really NEED to be set in Haiti which one would know will cause an uproar with the media.
Do we even know where this game is really set? I'm still going with some country in Africa.
It may not NEED to be set in Haiti, but most story settings are ultimately arbitrary decisions and there's no difference between picking Haiti or New York.
On that note, I'd love to see a corporate zombie survival game.
You can't seriously believe that...
I think it makes more sense to have a zombie game set in Haiti than it does to have it set in middle America. Zombies did spring from Voodoo beliefs and folklore after all.
okay, so it DOES make a difference. My problem was that he felt the setting has nothing to do with anything
(I'm just going to guess where this read is going a post accordingly.)
There hasn't been a black villian in a Bond movie for years.
The last one had the African(?) Warlord and cronies. Not the main villains but defiantly a main bad guy.
IT'S DEFINITELY,NOT "Defiantly"!
Defiantly means "in a defiant manner".
Anyway, I obviously agree that RE5 is not racist... But it's really tasteless. Haiti is still in serious trouble, people there are still suffering a lot, the UN is still trying to pacify the country, and I think it's really bad taste to make a game about killing those people.
Concerning the accusations: This is either some really evil and cynical person, trying to call the media spotlights to herself, or some really sick individual... She really said that the game TRAINS people to HATE AND KILL black people? That's really fucking crazy talk.
Fictional world full of zombies and notzombies. This fictional Haiti is not the same Haiti you hear about in the news. That's what makes it a story.
So if I make the Auschwitz Tycoon game and throw in a couple of gnomes, will it be ok?
srsly.
There's a difference between those two things and you know it. Resident Evil is on - what - it's sixth incarnation in the main series? There's a fictional world there that is completely and utterly separate from our own. Full of characters that don't really exist in a world that doesn't really exist.
A zombie game in Haiti shouldn't be taboo, but damn it doesn't really NEED to be set in Haiti which one would know will cause an uproar with the media.
Do we even know where this game is really set? I'm still going with some country in Africa.
It may not NEED to be set in Haiti, but most story settings are ultimately arbitrary decisions and there's no difference between picking Haiti or New York.
On that note, I'd love to see a corporate zombie survival game.
You can't seriously believe that...
I think it makes more sense to have a zombie game set in Haiti than it does to have it set in middle America. Zombies did spring from Voodoo beliefs and folklore after all.
okay, so it DOES make a difference. My problem was that he felt the setting has nothing to do with anything
I would call this game racist if like it wasn't part fucking 5 of a series and the story didn't travel from the US to Europe to now African (or Haiti).
If it was a random game that just popped up out of nowhere and you were killing masses of black people, then I'd be like "huh!?" but it's not.
Hold on...
You're saying that if a random game was set in Haiti or some African country and you were killing mostly black people in the game you'd call it racist? So, we can never have a game set in an African country (or asian, etc...) with out it being called racist? What about realism in the game? If the game is set in Africa there better damn well be black people there.
How about a game set in a mostly white neighborhood with a black protagonist? Is that racist? I'd say it's just as racist as a game where a white protagonist kills black people but you'd probably never hear the complaints about it.
How about GTA:SA? The parts of it that I played seemed to be pretty heavily racially stereotyped...
Trying to throw words in my mouth eh? You can keep on trying, but it isn't working or helping your point.
GTA:SA is full of stereotypical thug life. Game isn't all that far off base on the outer shell.
Like I said, if a random developer just made a random game and you were in Africa just shooting black people it would raise my brow. I wouldn't care, but I would find it borderline racist.
A game with a black guy shooting white people? You know, it's only going to be racist depending on the context of the violence. Is he a cop? Are they drug dealers? Mafia men? Or are they poor hobos who tried to hit him with a stick? I think a lot of people are missing the fucking point of why people are calling this racist and I admit I missed this at first myself. There's two simple things really...
1. The game looks very realistic
2. Only people who've played RE know that they're zombies. To a layman, it just looks like a white guy shooting black people from an obviously poor village. They do not read as zombies especially the fact that there's a guy speaking a language on a megaphone... what zombie does this?
I can easily see why people would find it to be racist because they just don't know what RE is. If you didn't know what RE was, you'd think this game was racist too because not only is he shooting black people, but he's shooting poor black people in a small town that seem to be just defending their territory.
Instead of making fun of every damn thing for the sake of laughs, try looking at it from a different perspective. I don't agree that the game is racist, and even I called said people claiming it is stupid, but when you look at it at the POV of someone who knows nothing about RE... it really does look racist cause they don't come off as zombies at all.
for what it's worth, i agree with pretty-much everything here. From our perspective, they're zombies, and it doesn't really matter what colour they are. To someone that's never played RE or knows the series, they see a white guy in an africa-like environment, shooting lots of black folk. That's just going to ring alarm bells.
You're a white guy, in Africa, shooting lots of black people. I don't recall any alarm bells ringing.
And unlike zombies, not all the black people in the game that you could shoot were trying to kill you.
Actually, I remember a few complaints about the movie adaptation of the book, but that's largely because it hit the mainstream. I think this just largely swept under the radar after that.
One example that I remember REALLY well though is Soldier of Fortune 1, where you got sent to Iraq and any Iraqi civillians killed were OK, but killing a civillian in the US was an instant fail. Man did THAT leave a nasty taste.
I would call this game racist if like it wasn't part fucking 5 of a series and the story didn't travel from the US to Europe to now African (or Haiti).
If it was a random game that just popped up out of nowhere and you were killing masses of black people, then I'd be like "huh!?" but it's not.
Hold on...
You're saying that if a random game was set in Haiti or some African country and you were killing mostly black people in the game you'd call it racist? So, we can never have a game set in an African country (or asian, etc...) with out it being called racist? What about realism in the game? If the game is set in Africa there better damn well be black people there.
How about a game set in a mostly white neighborhood with a black protagonist? Is that racist? I'd say it's just as racist as a game where a white protagonist kills black people but you'd probably never hear the complaints about it.
How about GTA:SA? The parts of it that I played seemed to be pretty heavily racially stereotyped...
Trying to throw words in my mouth eh? You can keep on trying, but it isn't working or helping your point.
GTA:SA is full of stereotypical thug life. Game isn't all that far off base on the outer shell.
Like I said, if a random developer just made a random game and you were in Africa just shooting black people it would raise my brow. I wouldn't care, but I would find it borderline racist.
A game with a black guy shooting white people? You know, it's only going to be racist depending on the context of the violence. Is he a cop? Are they drug dealers? Mafia men? Or are they poor hobos who tried to hit him with a stick? I think a lot of people are missing the fucking point of why people are calling this racist and I admit I missed this at first myself. There's two simple things really...
1. The game looks very realistic
2. Only people who've played RE know that they're zombies. To a layman, it just looks like a white guy shooting black people from an obviously poor village. They do not read as zombies especially the fact that there's a guy speaking a language on a megaphone... what zombie does this?
I can easily see why people would find it to be racist because they just don't know what RE is. If you didn't know what RE was, you'd think this game was racist too because not only is he shooting black people, but he's shooting poor black people in a small town that seem to be just defending their territory.
Instead of making fun of every damn thing for the sake of laughs, try looking at it from a different perspective. I don't agree that the game is racist, and even I called said people claiming it is stupid, but when you look at it at the POV of someone who knows nothing about RE... it really does look racist cause they don't come off as zombies at all.
for what it's worth, i agree with pretty-much everything here. From our perspective, they're zombies, and it doesn't really matter what colour they are. To someone that's never played RE or knows the series, they see a white guy in an africa-like environment, shooting lots of black folk. That's just going to ring alarm bells.
You're a white guy, in Africa, shooting lots of black people. I don't recall any alarm bells ringing.
And unlike zombies, not all the black people in the game that you could shoot were trying to kill you.
I don't think the problem is "white guy shooting black people".
I think the problem is "white guy shooting black people and I have no idea why".
Most people would see the first as a main fighting in war. The second obviously isn't been seen the way it probably should have and that's mostly Capcom's fault unless they intended to only sell this game to people who know what RE already is.
Commercials for this game will only cause even more problems. I seriously hope this doesn't blow over and cause them to change the setting or anything like that
I think it makes more sense to have a zombie game set in Haiti than it does to have it set in middle America. Zombies did spring from Voodoo beliefs and folklore after all.
Funny how the fifth game is set in Haiti whereas the first, second, and third were all set in middle America.
I think they're just trying to make RE5 feel different. There are many settings unexplored for zombie outbreaks: The past, the future, some very northen land, kids in a high school, etc.
We've had Dead Rising for a mall, RE4 was in Europe, RE5 in Haiti, the REs before that in America. I think it's good that they're trying new things, new settings. Wouldn't it be cool to have a zombie game in [setting X]? Well, they might make it some day.
A zombie game in South Africa or South America could be great. It'd feel like a hotter, dryer version of RE4. But then, realistically, the people would have to be black.
I think it makes more sense to have a zombie game set in Haiti than it does to have it set in middle America. Zombies did spring from Voodoo beliefs and folklore after all.
Funny how the fifth game is set in Haiti whereas the first, second, and third were all set in middle America.
I agree.
Maybe setting RE4 in Eastern Europe and this game someplace (Haiti, Africa, wherever) is a way to flesh out the plot of the game.
All of this talk of Africa and zombies makes me think of The Exorcist II and Dominion: Prelude to Exorcist (whatever it's called). Both had ties to the supernatural and Africa as an attempt to explain things. Neither were very good either. I hope RE5 doesn't share a similar fate...
(I'm just going to guess where this read is going a post accordingly.)
There hasn't been a black villian in a Bond movie for years.
The last one had the African(?) Warlord and cronies. Not the main villains but defiantly a main bad guy.
IT'S DEFINITELY,NOT "Defiantly"!
Defiantly means "in a defiant manner".
Anyway, I obviously agree that RE5 is not racist... But it's really tasteless. Haiti is still in serious trouble, people there are still suffering a lot, the UN is still trying to pacify the country, and I think it's really bad taste to make a game about killing those people.
Concerning the accusations: This is either some really evil and cynical person, trying to call the media spotlights to herself, or some really sick individual... She really said that the game TRAINS people to HATE AND KILL black people? That's really fucking crazy talk.
Fictional world full of zombies and notzombies. This fictional Haiti is not the same Haiti you hear about in the news. That's what makes it a story.
So if I make the Auschwitz Tycoon game and throw in a couple of gnomes, will it be ok?
srsly.
Yes, it would.
That's really god damned fucking retarded.
EDIT: HAH! I caught your ninja edit.
And anyway, yes, I think it's fucking tasteless to make a superficial, commercial entertainment product that will harvest millions and millions of dollars while the Haitians are living trough all kinds of shit right now.
And I'm not treating them as lepers, don't be an asshole, I'm just asking for some respect here. We should respect their plight and refrain from making stupid games where they get turned into zombies and slaughtered by the hundreds.
Doesn't that make everybody tasteless? I mean, I make money that I don't give to Haiti. Capcom isn't exploiting Haitians in any way. They just happen to be using that country as the setting for their game.
Very naive to ignore historical context, and more importantly, the point of the concern here. RE4 just didn't inflame any racial prejudices that are commonly attributed against the Europeans. 15 year old Ronny from South California just isn't going to pick anything up from shooting Spanish villagers, nothing he was already disposed to or that is in his environment. Shooting swarms of black zombies hits the black racial prejudices on the fucking head and Ronny has some awareness of these prejudices, his friends do, especially the racist ones.
I don't think RE5 is going to be the powder keg to racial tension but I think to a very small degree it will deepen them for some people, very small but still much larger than anything RE4 did against Europeans. No, it's not deserving of a ban or boycott, but it would be nice if the developers steered the final product with the awareness of this concern. If there's evidence that they willfully ignore it then I'm liable to give them a piece of my mind if I ever get the opportunity.
Very naive to ignore historical context, and more importantly, the point of the concern here. RE4 just didn't inflame any racial prejudices that are commonly attributed against the Europeans. 15 year old Ronny from South California just isn't going to pick anything up from shooting Spanish villagers, nothing he was already disposed to or that is in his environment. Shooting swarms of black zombies hits the black racial prejudices on the fucking head and Ronny has some awareness of these prejudices, his friends do, especially the racist ones.
I don't think RE5 is going to be the powder keg to racial tension but I think to very small degree it will deepen them for some people, very small but still much larger than anything RE4 did against Europeans. No, it's not deserving of a ban or boycott, but it would be nice if the developers steered the final product with the awareness of this concern.
Sorry, but Capcom is not responsible for the irrational racial prejudices of others. I hope they ignore the "concern" fully. The market can regulate itself: if you or others find it offensive, then you and they can simply not buy it.
RE4 has a white guy with a gun killing a whole bunch of eastern europeans, and only them, in a very primitive backwards town, all of which were armed with rudimentary tools.
Not to nitpick or anything, but these are western Europeans. It takes place in Spain. The only European country more western than it is Portugal.
Very naive to ignore historical context, and more importantly, the point of the concern here. RE4 just didn't inflame any racial prejudices that are commonly attributed against the Europeans. 15 year old Ronny from South California just isn't going to pick anything up from shooting Spanish villagers, nothing he was already disposed to or that is in his environment. Shooting swarms of black zombies hits the black racial prejudices on the fucking head and Ronny has some awareness of these prejudices, his friends do, especially the racist ones.
I don't think RE5 is going to be the powder keg to racial tension but I think to very small degree it will deepen them for some people, very small but still much larger than anything RE4 did against Europeans. No, it's not deserving of a ban or boycott, but it would be nice if the developers steered the final product with the awareness of this concern.
I personally have no prejudice against black people, so I'm not picking up anything racist from it. Also, the ONLY way this could be racist is if the people who made it made it out of an anti-black sentiment. If I were to write a story, or a game, or whatever, and one of the guys dies, and he's black, and I made him black as an artistic/narrative/whatever choice, even if someone claims it's racist, it isn't. PERIOD. It's not racist because I didn't have any racist intent in making the story unfold this way.
RE4 has a white guy with a gun killing a whole bunch of eastern europeans, and only them, in a very primitive backwards town, all of which were armed with rudimentary tools.
Not to nitpick or anything, but these are western Europeans. It takes place in Spain. The only European country more western than it is Portugal.
Oh, ok, my bad. I read "eastern" somewhere and just used it myself.
Sorry, but Capcom is not responsible for the irrational racial prejudices of others. I hope they ignore the "concern" fully. The market can regulate itself: if you or others find it offensive, then you and they can simply not buy it.
Yeah and I can complain like I am now. All sorts of things can be done. But the list of "can be done"s is not the "should be done"s and the latter should not be marginalized like you're trying to do now.
And anyway, yes, I think it's fucking tasteless to make a superficial, commercial entertainment product that will harvest millions and millions of dollars while the Haitians are living trough all kinds of shit right now.
*chortle*
Haiti is a part of the world, dude. And this isn't about the strife in Haiti. They are using it as a setting. You are suggesting that we pretend Haiti doesn't even exist, that it can't be used as a setting for a story because they have some kind of strife right now?
Grow up.
You are the one who needs to grow up, and pick up some reading comprehension skills on the way.
NO, I made it pretty clear that it's not a matter of "pretending they don't exist". Sure, if anyone decides to write a serious novel about the issue there, more power to them. After all, that's how we started hearing about Hemingway, and that's how "War and Peace" was born.
Only thing is, RE5 is really just a silly shallow entertainment product. Not matter how fun or cool it is, it's got no redeeming artistic qualities whatsoever. Making a game happen in Haiti today is as fucking tasteless as making Die Hard 5.0 in Darfur, and have John McLane make fun of the shit that's going on there.
How hard it is to understand that the world is not just a playground for you kids, that there are some real people going trough some pretty heavy shit that you cannot even begin to fathom? How hard it is for you to understand that it is fucking tasteless to make shallow games in modern day Haiti? A less brainless game, one that would take the issue seriously would be fine, but this is ridiculous.
So, you're just trolling because you don't care about RE5 - "it's shallow" - and you've decided to use this thread as a soapbox for some meaningless, racist moral crusade. I see.
How about you fuck the hell off.
Ran out of arguments?
Shit, I love RE4, and I think that RE5 is going to be really awesome in the gameplay and graphics departments. One of the games that make me want a 360 or PS3 or whatever.
But if you think that the RE series is anything but shallow in the writing department, you're fucking ignorant.
I'm saying I don't give a damn if it's the most shallow piece of crap ever.
You're missing what I'm saying and what Qonas just repeated, though much more succinctly than I had: that Haiti is a valid setting regardless of what strife they are going through.
Yeah, I have run out of arguments. I just have the one argument. And that's all I need, because you're a gigantic retard and my sole argument is 100% right. Haiti deserves to be a setting as much as Mexico, New York, Korea, Jerusalem, Iraq, Siberia, or any other place.
I give up, your level of assholeness is just too much for me to bear.
Congratulations, you have proved you're a jerk, and a very stupid one, too.
We're all talking in circles. We mostly believe the game isn't racist, but do we understand how someone outside the circle of gaming and RE would find it to be racist?
We're all talking in circles. We mostly believe the game isn't racist, but do we understand how someone outside the circle of gaming and RE would find it to be racist?
Yes, but that "someone" would have to be a fucking retarded douche, whose opinion I don't care about, and his concerns aren't valid. Capcom needs to ignore them, as the game isn't racist, even if someone somewhere THINKS it is.
Haiti has a tremendous aesthetic that is both realistic and incredibly alien to the average gamer. It is a great setting from a design point of view. I don't think the suffering in that area of the world makes it verboten as a narrative device: what, its less racist to pretend the place doesn't exist and not ever talk about it? Fuck that.
How long before the "This is racist" people realize thats basically the same bed as Jack Thompson (video game violence leads to real violence and should be taken seriously)?
And anyway, yes, I think it's fucking tasteless to make a superficial, commercial entertainment product that will harvest millions and millions of dollars while the Haitians are living trough all kinds of shit right now.
*chortle*
Haiti is a part of the world, dude. And this isn't about the strife in Haiti. They are using it as a setting. You are suggesting that we pretend Haiti doesn't even exist, that it can't be used as a setting for a story because they have some kind of strife right now?
Grow up.
You are the one who needs to grow up, and pick up some reading comprehension skills on the way.
NO, I made it pretty clear that it's not a matter of "pretending they don't exist". Sure, if anyone decides to write a serious novel about the issue there, more power to them. After all, that's how we started hearing about Hemingway, and that's how "War and Peace" was born.
Only thing is, RE5 is really just a silly shallow entertainment product. Not matter how fun or cool it is, it's got no redeeming artistic qualities whatsoever. Making a game happen in Haiti today is as fucking tasteless as making Die Hard 5.0 in Darfur, and have John McLane make fun of the shit that's going on there.
How hard it is to understand that the world is not just a playground for you kids, that there are some real people going trough some pretty heavy shit that you cannot even begin to fathom? How hard it is for you to understand that it is fucking tasteless to make shallow games in modern day Haiti? A less brainless game, one that would take the issue seriously would be fine, but this is ridiculous.
So, you're just trolling because you don't care about RE5 - "it's shallow" - and you've decided to use this thread as a soapbox for some meaningless, racist moral crusade. I see.
How about you fuck the hell off.
Ran out of arguments?
Shit, I love RE4, and I think that RE5 is going to be really awesome in the gameplay and graphics departments. One of the games that make me want a 360 or PS3 or whatever.
But if you think that the RE series is anything but shallow in the writing department, you're fucking ignorant.
I'm saying I don't give a damn if it's the most shallow piece of crap ever.
You're missing what I'm saying and what Qonas just repeated, though much more succinctly than I had: that Haiti is a valid setting regardless of what strife they are going through.
Yeah, I have run out of arguments. I just have the one argument. And that's all I need, because you're a gigantic retard and my sole argument is 100% right. Haiti deserves to be a setting as much as Mexico, New York, Korea, Jerusalem, Iraq, Siberia, or any other place.
I give up, your level of assholeness is just too much for me to bear.
Congratulations, you have proved you're a jerk, and a very stupid one, too.
No problem. Feel free to argue with all the other people calling you a gigantic fuckwit. There's a LOT of people in the thread besides me that think your position is completely stupid. They are just being a bit nicer about it.
Haiti has a tremendous aesthetic that is both realistic and incredibly alien to the average gamer. It is a great setting from a design point of view. I don't think the suffering in that area of the world makes it verboten as a narrative device: what, its less racist to pretend the place doesn't exist and not ever talk about it? Fuck that.
How long before the "This is racist" people realize thats basically the same bed as Jack Thompson (video game violence leads to real violence and should be taken seriously)?
Honestly, people need to realize that strife exists in the world. It's not tasteless to use a place like Haiti as a setting. It's, as apotheos says, "alien" and rather pretty.
If there was internal strife in New Zealand, would it be wrong to use New Zealand as a setting for a book, game, short story, poem, whatever? No. It would be fine.
I personally have no prejudice against black people, so I'm not picking up anything racist from it. Also, the ONLY way this could be racist is if the people who made it made it out of an anti-black sentiment. If I were to write a story, or a game, or whatever, and one of the guys dies, and he's black, and I made him black as an artistic/narrative/whatever choice, even if someone claims it's racist, it isn't. PERIOD. It's not racist because I didn't have any racist intent in making the story unfold this way.
Well, there's nothing wrong with pointing out cultural trends and criticizing art. I give credit it with all the legal protection it gets but I'm not going to keep my mouth shut just because it's art. It's there to be scrutinized in whatever context fits.
Edit: Also I don't have a problem with a game in Haiti. But if the game in Haiti is looking tasteless then might as well point it out.
Once we see the plot of the game we can say something more succinct about its racism. World War II games are not considered exploitative as they don't ever feature death camps prominently. It's all about the context, but people objecting to the principle are insane, and also apparently for restricting artistic expression, and also Jack Thompsons best friends. And also Nazis. Godwins law. Thread over.
We're all talking in circles. We mostly believe the game isn't racist, but do we understand how someone outside the circle of gaming and RE would find it to be racist?
Yes, but that "someone" would have to be a fucking retarded douche, whose opinion I don't care about, and his concerns aren't valid. Capcom needs to ignore them, as the game isn't racist, even if someone somewhere THINKS it is.
We're all talking in circles. We mostly believe the game isn't racist, but do we understand how someone outside the circle of gaming and RE would find it to be racist?
No.
I agree that the trailer could be considered racist.
I agree that someone without proper perspective could consider the game racist.
However, it's the claimant's duty to gain that proper perspective. So they can claim anything they want. The fact is, it's not racist. So why pay these people any mind? If you want to give them the proper perspective, which is what I've been suggesting, by explaining that this is a fictional game about killing zombies, then that's what you should do. Beyond that, ignore these detractors. They are irrelevant.
I personally have no prejudice against black people, so I'm not picking up anything racist from it. Also, the ONLY way this could be racist is if the people who made it made it out of an anti-black sentiment. If I were to write a story, or a game, or whatever, and one of the guys dies, and he's black, and I made him black as an artistic/narrative/whatever choice, even if someone claims it's racist, it isn't. PERIOD. It's not racist because I didn't have any racist intent in making the story unfold this way.
Well, there's nothing wrong with pointing out cultural trends and criticizing art. I give credit it with all the legal protection it gets but I'm not going to keep my mouth shut just because it's art. It's there to be scrutinized in whatever context fits.
All I'm saying is that if you were to say it is racist, you'd be wrong. You can scrutinize it, sure, that's not a problem. You could totally say "I didn't like it". We're talking about an opinion there. You could also not like it BECAUSE you find it racist. It wouldn't be racist, but you interpreted it that way, and it even made you not like it. Ok, sure, if your sentiments are such that you didn't like it, who am I to force you to like it? But don't go around claiming it's racist, because it's not.
Kewop: Sorry you don't like that (harsh, I'll admit) opinion, but it is mine and I'm not going to pretend otherwise. If I feel that way, I'm confident enough to say it out loud. I wouldn't want it to be considered trolling or anything, which is why I'm usually more nice about it, but on that issue, it is my feeling. It's pretty much what Drez just said, except I was very harsh.
Lone white guy shooting swarms of black people, that's a little odd to me (Oh right, they're zombies!). It might not be intended as racist but it's obviously insensitive. Anti-European sentiment is hardly comparable to worldwide prejudice against blacks. I'm still going to play the game and not feel any shame in it but I cringe at the thought of 15 year olds discussing this game within their cliques.
Why is it odd to have the lone white guy - the protagonist and player-controlled character - shooting large groups of black people? They started the fight. The trailer showed as much. He said he's there with a job to do. And we know he's got a gun. So far this is standard for a video game. The main character needs a reason to be wherever he is. We don't know that reason yet because this is a trailer. It's also pretty well understood that when somebody in a video game tries to kill you that it's appropriate to try to kill them back, and seeing as you've got better weapons and aren't a notzombie you'll probably win. Besides, those that are ignorant of Resident Evil might not know that the antagonists in the games are zombies and other assorted weirdo creatures, but it's obvious that something isn't right when one guy starts bleeding from the eyes and whatnot. It's a game. You need to suspend your disbelief. It's completely possible - and extremely likely - that he's shooting the black people for a good reason - such as their undying desire to kill him and that his motivations and reasons for being in Haiti will become clear later. The trailer was, as far as I can tell, designed to show off the combat, and it did that extremely well. It wasn't designed to say "we're killing blacks in 2009!"
Oh for crying out loud, even if you don't know about RE, the trailer makes it very clear that the villagers are murder-crazy for some reason and that Chris is only defending himself. Zombie or not, if I had a gun and I walked in an African village and everyone was trying to kill me, I think I'd shoot a couple of them, and not because I hate black people.
If people are trying to kill you of course you shoot them (if you have a gun), but viewers don't know WHY they're trying to kill you. The whole thing just reads as an outsider killing homeland people. A layman can ask too many questions to make this look odd. Like for example... why does he even have a gun?
Why the fuck is this so hard to understand? The trailer doesn't make them seem like "murder-crazy" people at all. It doesn't even make them seem like real antagonist other than the fact the player controls Chris.
He has a gun because he's the main character of the sixth installment of a game where the protagonist has always had a gun of some sort. Also, most current games feature shooting. A player-controlled character holding a gun should not be a surprise at this point.
Also, the locals seem pretty murder crazy to me. They're pissed enough to take on a person armed with a gun with a bunch of farm tools. That's crazy. You don't fight a gun with a rake. That makes you crazy. Also, that guy bleeding out his eyes toward the end makes it abundantly clear that something ain't right in Haiti. He's not shooting black folks for fun. He's shooting them because if the doesn't they will kill him.
Also, it's a game. It can be reasonably assumed that he has a reason other than that he loves shooting crazy, eye-bleeding Haitian folk.
Which trailer are we talking about? Because I remember there being a full trailer released after a teaser one. Are we talking about the one where the dudes eyes bleed and then shambling notcorpses attack Chris and try to eat him?
I think I could have put together that it was probably a zombie game. That or a hard core eyedrop commercial.
I stated a few posts back that I don't think it's racist, but that's irrelevant. If it were racist there wouldn't be a problem because it would get squashed. The issue is how it will affect racism, impossible to tell but there are concerns.
Haiti has a tremendous aesthetic that is both realistic and incredibly alien to the average gamer. It is a great setting from a design point of view. I don't think the suffering in that area of the world makes it verboten as a narrative device: what, its less racist to pretend the place doesn't exist and not ever talk about it? Fuck that.
How long before the "This is racist" people realize thats basically the same bed as Jack Thompson (video game violence leads to real violence and should be taken seriously)?
Awhile, I think.
Race is such a polarizing issue and the smallest infraction can lead to a large uproar. Also, there are a lot more people interested in racism than in violence. All it takes is for someone like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton to get involved in the issue and it's going to gain more national press than Jack Thompson ever dreamed of. Sadly the Rev. Al is also more likely to get things done than Jack...
Take the Don Imus situation for example. A huge controversy for a comment (taken out of context, some say) that wasn't even that racist said by a man who isn't a racist...
The first thing I thought when I saw the trailer was, "Way to go, Japan. Now America is going to see a political shitstorm about games the likes of which have never been seen."
I felt uncomfortable watching the trailer, and not just because it was a terrible trailer. One white guy shot 100 black people and they didn't look like zombies.
I do think it is playing with racial issues. The one cutscene of the black man reclining and raising his head definitely plays into stereotypes. Of course, do to simple color contrast, its a spooky as fuck look.
The first thing I thought when I saw the trailer was, "Way to go, Japan. Now America is going to see a political shitstorm about games the likes of which have never been seen."
I felt uncomfortable watching the trailer, and not just because it was a terrible trailer. One white guy shot 100 black people and they didn't look like zombies.
They didn't all look like zombies to me in RE4 either. More like blood-thirsty villagers.
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RE4 has a white guy with a gun killing a whole bunch of eastern europeans, and only them, in a very primitive backwards town, all of which were armed with rudimentary tools.
What the fuck?
Making a game in Haitai doesn't disrespect the hardships of others. That's just... I can't even form a coherent reaction. This is just too retarded for words.
Also, I don't find RE5 tasteless. So, that means it objectively isn't?
I'm saying I don't give a damn if it's the most shallow piece of crap ever.
You're missing what I'm saying and what Qonas just repeated, though much more succinctly than I had: that Haiti is a valid setting regardless of what strife they are going through.
Yeah, I have run out of arguments. I just have the one argument. And that's all I need, because you're a gigantic retard and my sole argument is 100% right. Haiti deserves to be a setting as much as Mexico, New York, Korea, Jerusalem, Iraq, Siberia, or any other place.
I dunno if you read the last two pages, but this said idea is what's being debated right now actually and I agree 100%.
It's not like you don't know what country we're in. You just can't have a white guy shooting groups of blacks and not expect there to be some noise.
I think it makes more sense to have a zombie game set in Haiti than it does to have it set in middle America. Zombies did spring from Voodoo beliefs and folklore after all.
"Out of context" means "ignoring/not realizing that it's part of a zombie-killing series." The trailer does not provide substantial context, I agree there. I'm saying that if it is misinterpreted because of this, then it is an easy matter of correcting whomever is misinterpreting it.
The context I refer to is that this is an RE game. If someone watches the trailer and complains about it, you simply educate them on what it is a trailer for - i.e. provide the appropriate context for them - and that's that.
You're a white guy, in Africa, shooting lots of black people. I don't recall any alarm bells ringing.
And unlike zombies, not all the black people in the game that you could shoot were trying to kill you.
Funny how the fifth game is set in Haiti whereas the first, second, and third were all set in middle America.
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okay, so it DOES make a difference. My problem was that he felt the setting has nothing to do with anything
There's a difference between those two things and you know it. Resident Evil is on - what - it's sixth incarnation in the main series? There's a fictional world there that is completely and utterly separate from our own. Full of characters that don't really exist in a world that doesn't really exist.
It doesn't. Zombies are everywhere.
Actually, I remember a few complaints about the movie adaptation of the book, but that's largely because it hit the mainstream. I think this just largely swept under the radar after that.
One example that I remember REALLY well though is Soldier of Fortune 1, where you got sent to Iraq and any Iraqi civillians killed were OK, but killing a civillian in the US was an instant fail. Man did THAT leave a nasty taste.
I don't think the problem is "white guy shooting black people".
I think the problem is "white guy shooting black people and I have no idea why".
Most people would see the first as a main fighting in war. The second obviously isn't been seen the way it probably should have and that's mostly Capcom's fault unless they intended to only sell this game to people who know what RE already is.
Commercials for this game will only cause even more problems. I seriously hope this doesn't blow over and cause them to change the setting or anything like that
I think they're just trying to make RE5 feel different. There are many settings unexplored for zombie outbreaks: The past, the future, some very northen land, kids in a high school, etc.
We've had Dead Rising for a mall, RE4 was in Europe, RE5 in Haiti, the REs before that in America. I think it's good that they're trying new things, new settings. Wouldn't it be cool to have a zombie game in [setting X]? Well, they might make it some day.
A zombie game in South Africa or South America could be great. It'd feel like a hotter, dryer version of RE4. But then, realistically, the people would have to be black.
I agree.
Maybe setting RE4 in Eastern Europe and this game someplace (Haiti, Africa, wherever) is a way to flesh out the plot of the game.
All of this talk of Africa and zombies makes me think of The Exorcist II and Dominion: Prelude to Exorcist (whatever it's called). Both had ties to the supernatural and Africa as an attempt to explain things. Neither were very good either. I hope RE5 doesn't share a similar fate...
Doesn't that make everybody tasteless? I mean, I make money that I don't give to Haiti. Capcom isn't exploiting Haitians in any way. They just happen to be using that country as the setting for their game.
I don't think RE5 is going to be the powder keg to racial tension but I think to a very small degree it will deepen them for some people, very small but still much larger than anything RE4 did against Europeans. No, it's not deserving of a ban or boycott, but it would be nice if the developers steered the final product with the awareness of this concern. If there's evidence that they willfully ignore it then I'm liable to give them a piece of my mind if I ever get the opportunity.
Sorry, but Capcom is not responsible for the irrational racial prejudices of others. I hope they ignore the "concern" fully. The market can regulate itself: if you or others find it offensive, then you and they can simply not buy it.
Not to nitpick or anything, but these are western Europeans. It takes place in Spain. The only European country more western than it is Portugal.
I personally have no prejudice against black people, so I'm not picking up anything racist from it. Also, the ONLY way this could be racist is if the people who made it made it out of an anti-black sentiment. If I were to write a story, or a game, or whatever, and one of the guys dies, and he's black, and I made him black as an artistic/narrative/whatever choice, even if someone claims it's racist, it isn't. PERIOD. It's not racist because I didn't have any racist intent in making the story unfold this way.
Oh, ok, my bad. I read "eastern" somewhere and just used it myself.
I give up, your level of assholeness is just too much for me to bear.
Congratulations, you have proved you're a jerk, and a very stupid one, too.
According to your ethics, that'd be when Drez says "Out of arguments?", right?
Yes, but that "someone" would have to be a fucking retarded douche, whose opinion I don't care about, and his concerns aren't valid. Capcom needs to ignore them, as the game isn't racist, even if someone somewhere THINKS it is.
How long before the "This is racist" people realize thats basically the same bed as Jack Thompson (video game violence leads to real violence and should be taken seriously)?
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No problem. Feel free to argue with all the other people calling you a gigantic fuckwit. There's a LOT of people in the thread besides me that think your position is completely stupid. They are just being a bit nicer about it.
Honestly, people need to realize that strife exists in the world. It's not tasteless to use a place like Haiti as a setting. It's, as apotheos says, "alien" and rather pretty.
If there was internal strife in New Zealand, would it be wrong to use New Zealand as a setting for a book, game, short story, poem, whatever? No. It would be fine.
It's not tasteless to choose Haiti as a setting.
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Edit: Also I don't have a problem with a game in Haiti. But if the game in Haiti is looking tasteless then might as well point it out.
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No.
I agree that the trailer could be considered racist.
I agree that someone without proper perspective could consider the game racist.
However, it's the claimant's duty to gain that proper perspective. So they can claim anything they want. The fact is, it's not racist. So why pay these people any mind? If you want to give them the proper perspective, which is what I've been suggesting, by explaining that this is a fictional game about killing zombies, then that's what you should do. Beyond that, ignore these detractors. They are irrelevant.
All I'm saying is that if you were to say it is racist, you'd be wrong. You can scrutinize it, sure, that's not a problem. You could totally say "I didn't like it". We're talking about an opinion there. You could also not like it BECAUSE you find it racist. It wouldn't be racist, but you interpreted it that way, and it even made you not like it. Ok, sure, if your sentiments are such that you didn't like it, who am I to force you to like it? But don't go around claiming it's racist, because it's not.
Kewop: Sorry you don't like that (harsh, I'll admit) opinion, but it is mine and I'm not going to pretend otherwise. If I feel that way, I'm confident enough to say it out loud. I wouldn't want it to be considered trolling or anything, which is why I'm usually more nice about it, but on that issue, it is my feeling. It's pretty much what Drez just said, except I was very harsh.
Why is it odd to have the lone white guy - the protagonist and player-controlled character - shooting large groups of black people? They started the fight. The trailer showed as much. He said he's there with a job to do. And we know he's got a gun. So far this is standard for a video game. The main character needs a reason to be wherever he is. We don't know that reason yet because this is a trailer. It's also pretty well understood that when somebody in a video game tries to kill you that it's appropriate to try to kill them back, and seeing as you've got better weapons and aren't a notzombie you'll probably win. Besides, those that are ignorant of Resident Evil might not know that the antagonists in the games are zombies and other assorted weirdo creatures, but it's obvious that something isn't right when one guy starts bleeding from the eyes and whatnot. It's a game. You need to suspend your disbelief. It's completely possible - and extremely likely - that he's shooting the black people for a good reason - such as their undying desire to kill him and that his motivations and reasons for being in Haiti will become clear later. The trailer was, as far as I can tell, designed to show off the combat, and it did that extremely well. It wasn't designed to say "we're killing blacks in 2009!"
He has a gun because he's the main character of the sixth installment of a game where the protagonist has always had a gun of some sort. Also, most current games feature shooting. A player-controlled character holding a gun should not be a surprise at this point.
Also, the locals seem pretty murder crazy to me. They're pissed enough to take on a person armed with a gun with a bunch of farm tools. That's crazy. You don't fight a gun with a rake. That makes you crazy. Also, that guy bleeding out his eyes toward the end makes it abundantly clear that something ain't right in Haiti. He's not shooting black folks for fun. He's shooting them because if the doesn't they will kill him.
Also, it's a game. It can be reasonably assumed that he has a reason other than that he loves shooting crazy, eye-bleeding Haitian folk.
I think I could have put together that it was probably a zombie game. That or a hard core eyedrop commercial.
Awhile, I think.
Race is such a polarizing issue and the smallest infraction can lead to a large uproar. Also, there are a lot more people interested in racism than in violence. All it takes is for someone like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton to get involved in the issue and it's going to gain more national press than Jack Thompson ever dreamed of. Sadly the Rev. Al is also more likely to get things done than Jack...
Take the Don Imus situation for example. A huge controversy for a comment (taken out of context, some say) that wasn't even that racist said by a man who isn't a racist...
I felt uncomfortable watching the trailer, and not just because it was a terrible trailer. One white guy shot 100 black people and they didn't look like zombies.
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They didn't all look like zombies to me in RE4 either. More like blood-thirsty villagers.