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Can you honestly see somebody watching that trailer and not realizing that there's something wrong with the black folks? One is bleeding out his eyes. And they're all taking on a guy with a gun when the best weapon they've got is a rake. And they're bleeding profusely and look diseased. These aren't normal, healthy people. Even if you don't immediately jump to "zombie", you immediately jump to "Ewwwww" and creepy and scary. Exactly the sorts of things you're supposed to get from RE.
Because Europeans don't have a sterotype of being savages.
I've heard stereotypes of black people being thieves, or criminal, but savages? That'd run at you with axes even if you got a gun? No. Maybe far back in the past, but not now.
I'd have a problem with a black guy only killing white guys. I like diversity when I'm shooting pixels.
And that stereotype, of being savage? Savages that run at you even if you have a gun? Watch some of the old Laural and Hardy sketches or the Loony Toon cartoons that have been banned now for that exact stereotype. Shit, the other day I saw The Birth of a Nation is available on DVD.
Because Europeans don't have a sterotype of being savages.
And Americans don't have the stereotype of being fat. We all have problems, all of us. Pretending that these issues don't exist is making things more difficult. We have to realize these problems, and get over this whole sensitivity issue. I should be able to make fun of a black friend just like I make fun of my white friends without some fool running around spouting, "Racism! Racism!"
Please, please, please don't compare the African savage stereotype to the American fatty stereotype. That's just... a really stupid move. Like, I understand what you're saying, but I'm sorry, some simply have it better than others, stereotype-wise.
Well, I don't think we need to go to extremes to avoid it, just need to be wary of the blatantly tasteless.
I agree. But I don't think this is blatantly tasteless. At least not yet.
On a slightly different note, the game is set in Haiti. Do people expect a bunch of white zombies? Or, more importantly, should anyone care? It's like calling a movie about Africa racist because there are Africans in it.
No, it's like calling a movie that takes place in Africa racist because there are Africans in it. Which is even more silly.
Er, you're simplifying here. The issue that people are raising is that the videos portray a heroic white man in Africa shooting a load of black peasant villagers armed with knives and sticks desperately trying to take him down and kill him. If you can't spot the overtones of that a mile off and at least maybe, possibly understand why when some peoples first view of the game is this they have concerns about it, then I don't know what to say.
It's not a bunch of black villagers. It's a bunch of zombies that used to be black villagers.
He's killing zombies. Who tried to kill him first. It's not racism. It's survival.
Yea, but the trailer doesn't explain that to those who just don't know what RE is. This is the ONLY reason I think people are calling it racist. There's no excuse for ignorance, but that's why I think there's a stir.
Can you honestly see somebody watching that trailer and not realizing that there's something wrong with the black folks? One is bleeding out his eyes. And they're all taking on a guy with a gun when the best weapon they've got is a rake. And they're bleeding profusely and look diseased. These aren't normal, healthy people. Even if you don't immediately jump to "zombie", you immediately jump to "Ewwwww" and creepy and scary. Exactly the sorts of things you're supposed to get from RE.
Yes, I can honestly see that because some people I know already have. Not everyone thinks the same you know.
I think the problem with this thread is that we have people arguing over different things, who think they are arguing the same thing.
We have group A, who says 'This game isn't racist.' And we have group B, who says 'This is why people might see it as racist.'
But group A thinks group B is arguing with them, when in fact they are not. I think almost all of us are in agreement here, and it's an entirely different issue we're arguing about.
I think the Village Voice article on the subject has some interesting bits:
But looking again at the trailer, I see a different message: it’s not just that these zombies are black, but that the uninfected black villagers are zombie-like too. See all those spooky shots of the villagers before they get infected? It’s as if race itself were a disease. The white protagonist has to fight back or be infected.
And that’s the other issue with setting a zombie movie in Africa. The whole idea of zombies is based on our fear of contamination. Get bitten by a zombie, or just drop a tiny bit of undead blood in an open wound, and you’re a goner. Soon you too will carry the disease of the living dead.
Sounds familiar yet? Yup, we could be talking about the HIV/AIDS crisis, which has killed 15 million Africans, and infected 25 million others on the continent. Especially since one of the few sentences spoken in the Resident Evil 5 trailer is, “Casualties continue to mount over the long years I have struggled.”
Or maybe we’re reminded of the "one drop rule," concocted by racists who feared miscegenation in the era of slavery and Jim Crow to create a definition of whiteness. Is that what’s lurking behind the premise of this game?
They certainly weren't the only sort of friends I had. I'm sorry that your friends were sheep-esque enough to have their racial views colored by video games and remarks obviously meant as jokes.
I assure you. Not all children are that dumb. Those that are need more parenting. Not protection from freedom of speech and storytelling.
What? Most kids are sheep-esque. I don't care if your friends weren't like that, most are dumb. We're already doing a half-assed job of legally protecting kids from freedom of speech why not go the extra mile and make it uniform? I honestly would prefer it if Ronny was prevented from watching rated R movies and playing rated M games. At least here in America. Not like they're legally considered full citizens.
Well, I don't think we need to go to extremes to avoid it, just need to be wary of the blatantly tasteless.
I agree. But I don't think this is blatantly tasteless. At least not yet.
On a slightly different note, the game is set in Haiti. Do people expect a bunch of white zombies? Or, more importantly, should anyone care? It's like calling a movie about Africa racist because there are Africans in it.
No, it's really not. Maybe it would if the main activity of the main character was killing blacks for the full hour and a half.
The fundamental issue here is how blacks are portrayed, not that they're portrayed at all. There's a lot of wilful misinterpretation running around here.
THEY ARE PORTRAYED AS ZOMBIES
I'll agree that there is "a lot of willful misinterpretation running around here." But not by the people you are fingering with that comment.
Yeah, I know they're portrayed as zombies. It's Resident Evil. Fuck, man, way to misunderstand my point.
Which is, no, people are not upset about a game with black characters in it. People are upset about a game where you spend most of your time shooting black zombies. But a lot of guys here are wilfully misinterpreting it as the former, because it sounds a lot more of a stupid complaint, so it's easier to defend against, instead of dealing with the real issue.
I'm interested and excited to see RE5, but fuck, you guys have to stop misrepresenting the original complaint, even if it was retarded.
No, actually "people are upset about a game where you spend most of your time shooting black zombies" is a much less valid complaint. I think you misunderstood my point here. Any complaints about shooting black ZOMBIES is too retarded to even entertain seriously.
Can you honestly see somebody watching that trailer and not realizing that there's something wrong with the black folks? One is bleeding out his eyes. And they're all taking on a guy with a gun when the best weapon they've got is a rake. And they're bleeding profusely and look diseased. These aren't normal, healthy people. Even if you don't immediately jump to "zombie", you immediately jump to "Ewwwww" and creepy and scary. Exactly the sorts of things you're supposed to get from RE.
Yes, I can honestly see that because some people I know already have. Not everyone thinks the same you know.
Dude, I'm sorry to tell you this, but those 'some people you know' are idiots.
I do not feel the need to cater to idiots, and neither should CAPCOM, or anyone else.
I think the Village Voice article on the subject has some interesting bits:
But looking again at the trailer, I see a different message: it’s not just that these zombies are black, but that the uninfected black villagers are zombie-like too. See all those spooky shots of the villagers before they get infected? It’s as if race itself were a disease. The white protagonist has to fight back or be infected.
And that’s the other issue with setting a zombie movie in Africa. The whole idea of zombies is based on our fear of contamination. Get bitten by a zombie, or just drop a tiny bit of undead blood in an open wound, and you’re a goner. Soon you too will carry the disease of the living dead.
Sounds familiar yet? Yup, we could be talking about the HIV/AIDS crisis, which has killed 15 million Africans, and infected 25 million others on the continent. Especially since one of the few sentences spoken in the Resident Evil 5 trailer is, “Casualties continue to mount over the long years I have struggled.â€
Or maybe we’re reminded of the "one drop rule," concocted by racists who feared miscegenation in the era of slavery and Jim Crow to create a definition of whiteness. Is that what’s lurking behind the premise of this game?
The uninfected villagers didn't look zombie-like to me. At all. And HIV? Please. This is just bad faith.
I think the Village Voice article on the subject has some interesting bits:
But looking again at the trailer, I see a different message: it’s not just that these zombies are black, but that the uninfected black villagers are zombie-like too. See all those spooky shots of the villagers before they get infected? It’s as if race itself were a disease. The white protagonist has to fight back or be infected.
And that’s the other issue with setting a zombie movie in Africa. The whole idea of zombies is based on our fear of contamination. Get bitten by a zombie, or just drop a tiny bit of undead blood in an open wound, and you’re a goner. Soon you too will carry the disease of the living dead.
Sounds familiar yet? Yup, we could be talking about the HIV/AIDS crisis, which has killed 15 million Africans, and infected 25 million others on the continent. Especially since one of the few sentences spoken in the Resident Evil 5 trailer is, “Casualties continue to mount over the long years I have struggled.â€
Or maybe we’re reminded of the "one drop rule," concocted by racists who feared miscegenation in the era of slavery and Jim Crow to create a definition of whiteness. Is that what’s lurking behind the premise of this game?
Oh shit, AIDs. No other country has AIDs. Only Africa does.
It's just...we're so obsessed with "equality" that we are not, in fact, equal. We've put minorities in a fragile glass jar, like anything we say will destroy it easily, even if it's something dumb like "You're an asshole." We've gone in the opposite direction that we should.
Because Europeans don't have a sterotype of being savages.
I've heard stereotypes of black people being thieves, or criminal, but savages? That'd run at you with axes even if you got a gun? No. Maybe far back in the past, but not now.
I'd have a problem with a black guy only killing white guys. I like diversity when I'm shooting pixels.
And that stereotype, of being savage? Savages that run at you even if you have a gun? Watch some of the old Laural and Hardy sketches or the Loony Toon cartoons that have been banned now for that exact stereotype. Shit, the other day I saw The Birth of a Nation is available on DVD.
People are smarter than that now. We know, collectively, that blacks aren't savages, that Jews aren't inherently good with money, that Mexicans aren't inherently lazy, and that Americans aren't all morbidly obese.
And if one video game is enough to sway their viewpoint then there's more wrong with them than racism. Is there bound to be some racist fucker out there that honestly believes that blacks are savages and are just a giant waste of skin and hair? Probably. But watching the trailer for RE5 didn't make him that way. And playing the game won't make anybody else that way.
I think the Village Voice article on the subject has some interesting bits:
But looking again at the trailer, I see a different message: it’s not just that these zombies are black, but that the uninfected black villagers are zombie-like too. See all those spooky shots of the villagers before they get infected? It’s as if race itself were a disease. The white protagonist has to fight back or be infected.
And that’s the other issue with setting a zombie movie in Africa. The whole idea of zombies is based on our fear of contamination. Get bitten by a zombie, or just drop a tiny bit of undead blood in an open wound, and you’re a goner. Soon you too will carry the disease of the living dead.
Sounds familiar yet? Yup, we could be talking about the HIV/AIDS crisis, which has killed 15 million Africans, and infected 25 million others on the continent. Especially since one of the few sentences spoken in the Resident Evil 5 trailer is, “Casualties continue to mount over the long years I have struggled.â€
Or maybe we’re reminded of the "one drop rule," concocted by racists who feared miscegenation in the era of slavery and Jim Crow to create a definition of whiteness. Is that what’s lurking behind the premise of this game?
Oh shit, AIDs. No other country has AIDs. Only Africa does.
It's just...we're so obsessed with "equality" that we are not, in fact, equal. We've put minorities in a fragile glass jar, like anything we say will destroy it easily, even if it's something dumb like "You're an asshole." We've gone in the opposite direction that we should.
Can you honestly see somebody watching that trailer and not realizing that there's something wrong with the black folks? One is bleeding out his eyes. And they're all taking on a guy with a gun when the best weapon they've got is a rake. And they're bleeding profusely and look diseased. These aren't normal, healthy people. Even if you don't immediately jump to "zombie", you immediately jump to "Ewwwww" and creepy and scary. Exactly the sorts of things you're supposed to get from RE.
Yes, I can honestly see that because some people I know already have. Not everyone thinks the same you know.
I think you should go back and watch the trailer again, they practically beat you over the head with the message that these people aren't normal people anymore, that they're zombies or something.
Because Europeans don't have a sterotype of being savages.
I've heard stereotypes of black people being thieves, or criminal, but savages? That'd run at you with axes even if you got a gun? No. Maybe far back in the past, but not now.
I'd have a problem with a black guy only killing white guys. I like diversity when I'm shooting pixels.
And that stereotype, of being savage? Savages that run at you even if you have a gun? Watch some of the old Laural and Hardy sketches or the Loony Toon cartoons that have been banned now for that exact stereotype. Shit, the other day I saw The Birth of a Nation is available on DVD.
People are smarter than that now. We know, collectively, that blacks aren't savages, that Jews aren't inherently good with money, that Mexicans aren't inherently lazy, and that Americans aren't all morbidly obese.
And if one video game is enough to sway their viewpoint then there's more wrong with them than racism. Is there bound to be some racist fucker out there that honestly believes that blacks are savages and are just a giant waste of skin and hair? Probably. But watching the trailer for RE5 didn't make him that way. And playing the game won't make anybody else that way.
But don't you see? There's still a few ignorant people out there, so that means we all have to cater to them.
If you don't look for racism in every little thing, the racists win.
I think the Village Voice article on the subject has some interesting bits:
But looking again at the trailer, I see a different message: it’s not just that these zombies are black, but that the uninfected black villagers are zombie-like too. See all those spooky shots of the villagers before they get infected? It’s as if race itself were a disease. The white protagonist has to fight back or be infected.
And that’s the other issue with setting a zombie movie in Africa. The whole idea of zombies is based on our fear of contamination. Get bitten by a zombie, or just drop a tiny bit of undead blood in an open wound, and you’re a goner. Soon you too will carry the disease of the living dead.
Sounds familiar yet? Yup, we could be talking about the HIV/AIDS crisis, which has killed 15 million Africans, and infected 25 million others on the continent. Especially since one of the few sentences spoken in the Resident Evil 5 trailer is, “Casualties continue to mount over the long years I have struggled.â€
Or maybe we’re reminded of the "one drop rule," concocted by racists who feared miscegenation in the era of slavery and Jim Crow to create a definition of whiteness. Is that what’s lurking behind the premise of this game?
Oh shit, AIDs. No other country has AIDs. Only Africa does.
It's just...we're so obsessed with "equality" that we are not, in fact, equal. We've put minorities in a fragile glass jar, like anything we say will destroy it easily, even if it's something dumb like "You're an asshole." We've gone in the opposite direction that we should.
Precisely.
And a great proof of this is this refusal to debate earlier in the thread: "Don't you dare compare American fatties to African savages".
I think the Village Voice article on the subject has some interesting bits:
But looking again at the trailer, I see a different message: it’s not just that these zombies are black, but that the uninfected black villagers are zombie-like too. See all those spooky shots of the villagers before they get infected? It’s as if race itself were a disease. The white protagonist has to fight back or be infected.
And that’s the other issue with setting a zombie movie in Africa. The whole idea of zombies is based on our fear of contamination. Get bitten by a zombie, or just drop a tiny bit of undead blood in an open wound, and you’re a goner. Soon you too will carry the disease of the living dead.
Sounds familiar yet? Yup, we could be talking about the HIV/AIDS crisis, which has killed 15 million Africans, and infected 25 million others on the continent. Especially since one of the few sentences spoken in the Resident Evil 5 trailer is, “Casualties continue to mount over the long years I have struggled.â€
Or maybe we’re reminded of the "one drop rule," concocted by racists who feared miscegenation in the era of slavery and Jim Crow to create a definition of whiteness. Is that what’s lurking behind the premise of this game?
Oh shit, AIDs. No other country has AIDs. Only Africa does.
It's just...we're so obsessed with "equality" that we are not, in fact, equal. We've put minorities in a fragile glass jar, like anything we say will destroy it easily, even if it's something dumb like "You're an asshole." We've gone in the opposite direction that we should.
Please name a country where AIDS is as endemic a threat as Africa? Can you really truly not see the comparisons between the two threats and their motifs?
Is anyone arguing that RE5 will turn people into racists? I don't think so.
All I'm saying is it is easy to see how RE5 would cause a lot of controversy that revolves around racism. I doubt the game is designed to be racist, but it still APPEARS racist. If you don't understand why, well...I don't know what to say.
I think the lady throwing a hissy fit needs to shut the fuck up. She didn't feel the same way when you were blastin crackers in the original Resident Evils, she didn't make a peep about slaughtering spics in Resident Evil 4, so why does she suddenly feel this is an issue when you blast golliwoggs in Resident Evil 5?
Get the fuck over it. Every race equally succumbs to a bullet in the head.
They certainly weren't the only sort of friends I had. I'm sorry that your friends were sheep-esque enough to have their racial views colored by video games and remarks obviously meant as jokes.
I assure you. Not all children are that dumb. Those that are need more parenting. Not protection from freedom of speech and storytelling.
What? Most kids are sheep-esque. I don't care if your friends weren't like that, most are dumb. We're already doing a half-assed job of legally protecting kids from freedom of speech why not go the extra mile and make it uniform? I honestly would prefer it if Ronny was prevented from watching rated R movies and playing rated M games. At least here in America. Not like they're legally considered full citizens.
I would hate that. I'll raise my own children, thank you very much. The last thing I need is the government telling me what is and isn't appropriate entertainment for my child. If I can't figure that out on my own then I'm and unfit parent, but if I know my 16 year old can handle Police Academy and Halo then who are you tell me different?
Well, I don't think we need to go to extremes to avoid it, just need to be wary of the blatantly tasteless.
I agree. But I don't think this is blatantly tasteless. At least not yet.
On a slightly different note, the game is set in Haiti. Do people expect a bunch of white zombies? Or, more importantly, should anyone care? It's like calling a movie about Africa racist because there are Africans in it.
No, it's really not. Maybe it would if the main activity of the main character was killing blacks for the full hour and a half.
The fundamental issue here is how blacks are portrayed, not that they're portrayed at all. There's a lot of wilful misinterpretation running around here.
Haiti is a place. On Earth. People with dark skin happen to live there. No one complained when it was set in Europe, when a bunch of European people died. It should be no different here, because the people of Haiti and the people of Europe shouldn't be treated any differently. We're all human, folks. Hard to believe, I know.
Because Europeans don't have a sterotype of being savages.
And Americans don't have the stereotype of being fat. We all have problems, all of us. Pretending that these issues don't exist is making things more difficult. We have to realize these problems, and get over this whole sensitivity issue. I should be able to make fun of a black friend just like I make fun of my white friends without some fool running around spouting, "Racism! Racism!"
I had a colleague at a place I worked at a few months ago. He was a Sri Lankan guy, nice person, good engineer, and unfortunately for him a heavy accent to go along with his dark complexion. People kept calling him "curry boy", telling him to "go home and swing from trees", calling him "blackie" and other bullshit. And those were some of the nicer comments. And they said it in a joking fashion, as if it was no big deal that they were being such racist asshats.
And this guy couldn't really say anything to defend himself (really, he wasn't in a position to), so he just had to grin and bear it all the time. But it was obvious to anyone with half a brain how much those comments hurt him and how difficult it was for him to hear this crap time and again. But "It's all just jokes squire, we don't MEAN any of it".
If I tried to stand up for him it would become an issue of me being too "PC", which essentially means I'm not allowed to spoil their fun for anything. And even though they always said it with a joking air it was obvious there was also some malice behind it, because HE didn't belong there, he was DIFFERENT enough, he probably took some other, white engineers job too. You hear the gossip and the jokes. But you can't call a person on the jokes right? You're being such a prude if you are. I also know it affected his work and his working relationship with others, because they always saw him as different.
I'm not for avoiding problems. But saying that he has to "get over his sensitivity" just because it's not a direct physical attack, and as long it's all done with a humourous manner (a joke here and there, nudge nudge wink wink, he don't take offence at it shurely squire, we don't mean nothing by it, it's just 'armless fun), is utter crap to me and I will never, NEVER accept it. This may be off topic, but it's something I'll never forget. I was utterly shocked that people still behave like that even today, and if anything it's tought me this behaviour is far more endemic than I used to think. If everyone is in on the joke it's one thing. Being a racist jerk to someone you barely know and thinking it's just a joke is another.
But what do I know eh? It's all just guys having a laugh. Gosh, people should really stop being so uptight about that crap.
How is saying "it's different because it's BLACK zombies" any less racist than saying "It's different because he's a BLACK doctor"?
I don't want to get too involved in this thread or its ridiculousness, but I do want to distingish that ignoring race and ignoring racism are two different things, a point which I feel several people are missing. In your example, neither statement is necessarily racist depending on what you think is different and what the context is. Say, if a white person says a given thing to a black person, it is NOT the same thing as if a black person said it to a black person, or a black person said it to a white person, because their relationships are already different before the conversation starts.
I think the Village Voice article on the subject has some interesting bits:
But looking again at the trailer, I see a different message: it’s not just that these zombies are black, but that the uninfected black villagers are zombie-like too. See all those spooky shots of the villagers before they get infected? It’s as if race itself were a disease. The white protagonist has to fight back or be infected.
And that’s the other issue with setting a zombie movie in Africa. The whole idea of zombies is based on our fear of contamination. Get bitten by a zombie, or just drop a tiny bit of undead blood in an open wound, and you’re a goner. Soon you too will carry the disease of the living dead.
Sounds familiar yet? Yup, we could be talking about the HIV/AIDS crisis, which has killed 15 million Africans, and infected 25 million others on the continent. Especially since one of the few sentences spoken in the Resident Evil 5 trailer is, “Casualties continue to mount over the long years I have struggled.â€
Or maybe we’re reminded of the "one drop rule," concocted by racists who feared miscegenation in the era of slavery and Jim Crow to create a definition of whiteness. Is that what’s lurking behind the premise of this game?
Oh shit, AIDs. No other country has AIDs. Only Africa does.
It's just...we're so obsessed with "equality" that we are not, in fact, equal. We've put minorities in a fragile glass jar, like anything we say will destroy it easily, even if it's something dumb like "You're an asshole." We've gone in the opposite direction that we should.
Please name a country where AIDS is as endemic a threat as Africa? Can you really truly not see the comparisons between the two threats and their motifs?
I can truly say that the comparison is irrelevant.
You know, I was going to leave this thread alone when something hit me and I ran back to my computer to post this.
The whole "one drop of blood and you're infected" thing started with Night of the Living Dead, the movie that pioneered the zombie. But, funny thing. The protagonist was black. Not only that, but NoTD was made in the 60s. Not exactly a racism-free time. It's kind of hard to argue that zombies themselves are racist when the movie that made the zombie what it is had a positive portrayal of a black person.
Subedii: You can take that shit elsewhere, because you took my words for what you wanted them to be. Racism truly exists. There are people that hate blacks because they are black. Making racist jokes isn't funny, it really isn't. I'd never do anything to hurt someone's feelings by insulting their heritage. But that's not our issue here, it's that anything can be taken as racist. I called a friend of mine a dick a few days ago. He's white. If I said it to a black person, no doubt someone would call it racism. That's the issue here. We're pointing out anything that can be taken as offensive as being inherently racist.
And a great proof of this is this refusal to debate earlier in the thread: "Don't you dare compare American fatties to African savages".
Oh, good god. Was that a refusal to debate? Really? Or was I just pointing out how stupid it is to think that the fatty stereotype in any way nearly causes as much ignorance and bigotry as the savage stereotype?
Is anyone arguing that RE5 will turn people into racists?
Yeah, I sorta am.
That's just ridiculous. Look, I can't help that every single one of your friend was an idiot, and that the kids you see when you step outside are idiots, but here, they're not becoming racist with the help of games.
I would hate that. I'll raise my own children, thank you very much. The last thing I need is the government telling me what is and isn't appropriate entertainment for my child. If I can't figure that out on my own then I'm and unfit parent, but if I know my 16 year old can handle Police Academy and Halo then who are you tell me different?
Then go ahead and buy it for them. If there was a ban on sale to minors then this shit wouldn't be a problem. The responsibility would fully rest on the parents and my Manhunt wouldn't get blocked from me, an adult.
Well, I don't think we need to go to extremes to avoid it, just need to be wary of the blatantly tasteless.
I agree. But I don't think this is blatantly tasteless. At least not yet.
On a slightly different note, the game is set in Haiti. Do people expect a bunch of white zombies? Or, more importantly, should anyone care? It's like calling a movie about Africa racist because there are Africans in it.
No, it's really not. Maybe it would if the main activity of the main character was killing blacks for the full hour and a half.
The fundamental issue here is how blacks are portrayed, not that they're portrayed at all. There's a lot of wilful misinterpretation running around here.
Haiti is a place. On Earth. People with dark skin happen to live there. No one complained when it was set in Europe, when a bunch of European people died. It should be no different here, because the people of Haiti and the people of Europe shouldn't be treated any differently. We're all human, folks. Hard to believe, I know.
Because Europeans don't have a sterotype of being savages.
And Americans don't have the stereotype of being fat. We all have problems, all of us. Pretending that these issues don't exist is making things more difficult. We have to realize these problems, and get over this whole sensitivity issue. I should be able to make fun of a black friend just like I make fun of my white friends without some fool running around spouting, "Racism! Racism!"
I had a colleague at a place I worked at a few months ago. He was a Sri Lankan guy, nice person, good engineer, and unfortunately for him a heavy accent to go along with his dark complexion. People kept calling him "curry boy", telling him to "go home and swing from trees", calling him "blackie" and other bullshit. And those were some of the nicer comments. And they said it in a joking fashion, as if it was no big deal that they were being such racist asshats.
And this guy couldn't really say anything to defend himself (really, he wasn't in a position to), so he just had to grin and bear it all the time. But it was obvious to anyone with half a brain how much those comments hurt him and how difficult it was for him to hear this crap time and again. But "It's all just jokes squire, we don't MEAN any of it".
If I tried to stand up for him it would become an issue of me being too "PC", which essentially means I'm not allowed to spoil their fun for anything. And even though they always said it with a joking air it was obvious there was also some malice behind it, because HE didn't belong there, he was DIFFERENT enough, he probably took some other, white engineers job too. You hear the gossip and the jokes. But you can't call a person on the jokes right? You're being such a prude if you are. I also know it affected his work and his working relationship with others, because they always saw him as different.
I'm not for avoiding problems. But saying that he has to "get over his sensitivity" just because it's not a direct physical attack, and it's all done with a humourous manner, is utter crap to me and I will never, NEVER accept it. This may be off topic, but it's something I'll never forget. I was utterly shocked that people still behave like that even today, and if anything it's tought me this behaviour is far more endemic than I used to think.
But what do I know eh? It's all just guys having a laugh. Gosh, people should really stop being so uptight about that crap.
If it bothered him then he should have spoken up, and if it bother you then you should have spoken up. Or talked to a manager. Or HR. There are many many options available that are better than "grin and bear it."
Is anyone arguing that RE5 will turn people into racists? I don't think so.
All I'm saying is it is easy to see how RE5 would cause a lot of controversy that revolves around racism. I doubt the game is designed to be racist, but it still APPEARS racist. If you don't understand why, well...I don't know what to say.
It appears racist because it is a game where a white guy shoots black guys.
Of course we understand that.
It's very stupid, though, and a product of ignorance, laziness, and sensationalism, with a hearty helping of political correctness thrown in the mix. Please understand that, for me, the "appearance" of racism here is completely irrelevant. I honestly don't care what it "looks like" to ignorant complainers. I don't care that the trailer "looks" racist. People that actually think for themselves will see that it isn't.
You know, I was going to leave this thread alone when something hit me and I ran back to my computer to post this.
The whole "one drop of blood and you're infected" thing started with Night of the Living Dead, the movie that pioneered the zombie. But, funny thing. The protagonist was black. Not only that, but NoTD was made in the 60s. Not exactly a racism-free time. It's kind of hard to argue that zombies themselves are racist when the movie that made the zombie what it is had a positive portrayal of a black person.
Well the article wasn't saying all zombies are racists, just these zombies are racist.
Huh...that is one sentance I never in a million years would have expected to write.
I had a colleague at a place I worked at a few months ago. He was a Sri Lankan guy, nice person, good engineer, and unfortunately for him a heavy accent to go along with his dark complexion. People kept calling him "curry boy", telling him to "go home and swing from trees", calling him "blackie" and other bullshit. And those were some of the nicer comments. And they said it in a joking fashion, as if it was no big deal that they were being such racist asshats.
And this guy couldn't really say anything to defend himself (really, he wasn't in a position to), so he just had to grin and bear it all the time. But it was obvious to anyone with half a brain how much those comments hurt him and how difficult it was for him to hear this crap time and again. But "It's all just jokes squire, we don't MEAN any of it".
If I tried to stand up for him it would become an issue of me being too "PC", which essentially means I'm not allowed to spoil their fun for anything. And even though they always said it with a joking air it was obvious there was also some malice behind it, because HE didn't belong there, he was DIFFERENT enough, he probably took some other, white engineers job too. You hear the gossip and the jokes. But you can't call a person on the jokes right? You're being such a prude if you are. I also know it affected his work and his working relationship with others, because they always saw him as different.
I'm not for avoiding problems. But saying that he has to "get over his sensitivity" just because it's not a direct physical attack, and as long it's all done with a humourous manner (a joke here and there, nudge nudge wink wink, he don't take offence at it shurely squire, we don't mean nothing by it, it's just 'armless fun), is utter crap to me and I will never, NEVER accept it. This may be off topic, but it's something I'll never forget. I was utterly shocked that people still behave like that even today, and if anything it's tought me this behaviour is far more endemic than I used to think.
But what do I know eh? It's all just guys having a laugh. Gosh, people should really stop being so uptight about that crap.
Holy shit.
You're kidding, right?
You're not really bringing this as an argument to the present debate?
No. No. You have to be kidding.
No one is that retarded.
No one would seriously compare "actual racial comments said to someone because of his race" with "game where you kill all the enemies, no matter what color they'd be".
Is anyone arguing that RE5 will turn people into racists?
Yeah, I sorta am.
That's just ridiculous. Look, I can't help that every single one of your friend was an idiot, and that the kids you see when you step outside are idiots, but here, they're not becoming racist with the help of games.
Actually, yeah they're probably becoming a lot of things with the help of games. Some bad, some good. Being naive won't protect your favorite medium.
Is anyone arguing that RE5 will turn people into racists?
Yeah, I sorta am.
That's just ridiculous. Look, I can't help that every single one of your friend was an idiot, and that the kids you see when you step outside are idiots, but here, they're not becoming racist with the help of games.
Actually, yeah they're probably becoming a lot of things with the help of games. Some bad, some good. Being naive won't protect your favorite medium.
What did I, my brother, his GF, all of my friends, my father, my mother, every family member I've got who plays games, become because of games?
The only thing videogames turned me into is a gamer.
Well, I don't think we need to go to extremes to avoid it, just need to be wary of the blatantly tasteless.
I agree. But I don't think this is blatantly tasteless. At least not yet.
On a slightly different note, the game is set in Haiti. Do people expect a bunch of white zombies? Or, more importantly, should anyone care? It's like calling a movie about Africa racist because there are Africans in it.
No, it's really not. Maybe it would if the main activity of the main character was killing blacks for the full hour and a half.
The fundamental issue here is how blacks are portrayed, not that they're portrayed at all. There's a lot of wilful misinterpretation running around here.
Haiti is a place. On Earth. People with dark skin happen to live there. No one complained when it was set in Europe, when a bunch of European people died. It should be no different here, because the people of Haiti and the people of Europe shouldn't be treated any differently. We're all human, folks. Hard to believe, I know.
Because Europeans don't have a sterotype of being savages.
And Americans don't have the stereotype of being fat. We all have problems, all of us. Pretending that these issues don't exist is making things more difficult. We have to realize these problems, and get over this whole sensitivity issue. I should be able to make fun of a black friend just like I make fun of my white friends without some fool running around spouting, "Racism! Racism!"
I had a colleague at a place I worked at a few months ago. He was a Sri Lankan guy, nice person, good engineer, and unfortunately for him a heavy accent to go along with his dark complexion. People kept calling him "curry boy", telling him to "go home and swing from trees", calling him "blackie" and other bullshit. And those were some of the nicer comments. And they said it in a joking fashion, as if it was no big deal that they were being such racist asshats.
And this guy couldn't really say anything to defend himself (really, he wasn't in a position to), so he just had to grin and bear it all the time. But it was obvious to anyone with half a brain how much those comments hurt him and how difficult it was for him to hear this crap time and again. But "It's all just jokes squire, we don't MEAN any of it".
If I tried to stand up for him it would become an issue of me being too "PC", which essentially means I'm not allowed to spoil their fun for anything. And even though they always said it with a joking air it was obvious there was also some malice behind it, because HE didn't belong there, he was DIFFERENT enough, he probably took some other, white engineers job too. You hear the gossip and the jokes. But you can't call a person on the jokes right? You're being such a prude if you are. I also know it affected his work and his working relationship with others, because they always saw him as different.
I'm not for avoiding problems. But saying that he has to "get over his sensitivity" just because it's not a direct physical attack, and it's all done with a humourous manner, is utter crap to me and I will never, NEVER accept it. This may be off topic, but it's something I'll never forget. I was utterly shocked that people still behave like that even today, and if anything it's tought me this behaviour is far more endemic than I used to think.
But what do I know eh? It's all just guys having a laugh. Gosh, people should really stop being so uptight about that crap.
If it bothered him then he should have spoken up, and if it bother you then you should have spoken up. Or talked to a manager. Or HR. There are many many options available that are better than "grin and bear it."
You think I didn't? End result was it's all just guys having fun. Oh, and I'm too uptight about these things. And like I said, he wasn't in much of a position to rock the boat. If he raised it for himself I have little doubt it would have made things worse for him.
@Djiem: My comments were in response to ZombieMambo's comments. Like I said, they're probably off topic, and not so much in relation to the game and issue at hand. But I just felt I couldn't let that one lie. That event really ticked me off. People have a tendancy to brush off racism as just being too uptight.
I had a colleague at a place I worked at a few months ago. He was a Sri Lankan guy, nice person, good engineer, and unfortunately for him a heavy accent to go along with his dark complexion. People kept calling him "curry boy", telling him to "go home and swing from trees", calling him "blackie" and other bullshit. And those were some of the nicer comments. And they said it in a joking fashion, as if it was no big deal that they were being such racist asshats.
And this guy couldn't really say anything to defend himself (really, he wasn't in a position to), so he just had to grin and bear it all the time. But it was obvious to anyone with half a brain how much those comments hurt him and how difficult it was for him to hear this crap time and again. But "It's all just jokes squire, we don't MEAN any of it".
If I tried to stand up for him it would become an issue of me being too "PC", which essentially means I'm not allowed to spoil their fun for anything. And even though they always said it with a joking air it was obvious there was also some malice behind it, because HE didn't belong there, he was DIFFERENT enough, he probably took some other, white engineers job too. You hear the gossip and the jokes. But you can't call a person on the jokes right? You're being such a prude if you are. I also know it affected his work and his working relationship with others, because they always saw him as different.
I'm not for avoiding problems. But saying that he has to "get over his sensitivity" just because it's not a direct physical attack, and it's all done with a humourous manner, is utter crap to me and I will never, NEVER accept it. This may be off topic, but it's something I'll never forget. I was utterly shocked that people still behave like that even today, and if anything it's tought me this behaviour is far more endemic than I used to think.
But what do I know eh? It's all just guys having a laugh. Gosh, people should really stop being so uptight about that crap.
and
I got called into HR once to testify against a coworker (the white lady sitting next to me) for repeatedly making racist comments about black people. And I told HR that she, in fact, made me cringe quite often with her comments.
This crap about RE5 is absolutely nothing at all like the racism you are talking about.
You know, I was going to leave this thread alone when something hit me and I ran back to my computer to post this.
The whole "one drop of blood and you're infected" thing started with Night of the Living Dead, the movie that pioneered the zombie. But, funny thing. The protagonist was black. Not only that, but NoTD was made in the 60s. Not exactly a racism-free time. It's kind of hard to argue that zombies themselves are racist when the movie that made the zombie what it is had a positive portrayal of a black person.
Well the article wasn't saying all zombies are racists, just these zombies are racist.
Huh...that is one sentance I never in a million years would have expected to write.
Well, they mentioned that the tiniest drop of blood will infect a person, and undoubtedly turn them into a member of the living dead. They compare this to AIDs. This "fact" about zombies has been around for a long time, therefore all zombies must be racist to some degree. But where it originated was not racist, it was anti-racist during a racist time.
Holy shit.
You're kidding, right?
You're not really bringing this as an argument to the present debate?
No. No. You have to be kidding.
No one is that retarded.
No one would seriously compare "actual racial comments said to someone because of his race" with "game where you kill all the enemies, no matter what color they'd be".
Independent of whether his point is valid or not, he's not using it against the game, he's using it against the people who think minorities just need to loosen up.
You know, I was going to leave this thread alone when something hit me and I ran back to my computer to post this.
The whole "one drop of blood and you're infected" thing started with Night of the Living Dead, the movie that pioneered the zombie. But, funny thing. The protagonist was black. Not only that, but NoTD was made in the 60s. Not exactly a racism-free time. It's kind of hard to argue that zombies themselves are racist when the movie that made the zombie what it is had a positive portrayal of a black person.
Well the article wasn't saying all zombies are racists, just these zombies are racist.
Huh...that is one sentance I never in a million years would have expected to write.
Well, they mentioned that the tiniest drop of blood will infect a person, and undoubtedly turn them into a member of the living dead. They compare this to AIDs. This "fact" about zombies has been around for a long time, therefore all zombies must be racist to some degree. But where it originated was not racist, it was anti-racist during a racist time.
Yeah, but putting it in the context of Africa - says the article - allows it to make a point about AIDs. I think it's wrong, but it's an interesting view.
Holy shit.
You're kidding, right?
You're not really bringing this as an argument to the present debate?
No. No. You have to be kidding.
No one is that retarded.
No one would seriously compare "actual racial comments said to someone because of his race" with "game where you kill all the enemies, no matter what color they'd be".
Independent of whether his point is valid or not, he's not using it against the game, he's using it against the people who think minorities just need to loosen up.
Well, they do need to loosen up. They need to not be oversensitive about things that aren't racist. They have every right to be offended by actual racist things. They have no right to be offended by non-racist things.
Posts
Huh.
I just thought that's what black people did.
The more you know, right?
I'd have a problem with a black guy only killing white guys. I like diversity when I'm shooting pixels.
And that stereotype, of being savage? Savages that run at you even if you have a gun? Watch some of the old Laural and Hardy sketches or the Loony Toon cartoons that have been banned now for that exact stereotype. Shit, the other day I saw The Birth of a Nation is available on DVD.
Please, please, please don't compare the African savage stereotype to the American fatty stereotype. That's just... a really stupid move. Like, I understand what you're saying, but I'm sorry, some simply have it better than others, stereotype-wise.
Yes, I can honestly see that because some people I know already have. Not everyone thinks the same you know.
We have group A, who says 'This game isn't racist.' And we have group B, who says 'This is why people might see it as racist.'
But group A thinks group B is arguing with them, when in fact they are not. I think almost all of us are in agreement here, and it's an entirely different issue we're arguing about.
猿も木から落ちる
No, actually "people are upset about a game where you spend most of your time shooting black zombies" is a much less valid complaint. I think you misunderstood my point here. Any complaints about shooting black ZOMBIES is too retarded to even entertain seriously.
Dude, I'm sorry to tell you this, but those 'some people you know' are idiots.
I do not feel the need to cater to idiots, and neither should CAPCOM, or anyone else.
The uninfected villagers didn't look zombie-like to me. At all. And HIV? Please. This is just bad faith.
Oh shit, AIDs. No other country has AIDs. Only Africa does.
It's just...we're so obsessed with "equality" that we are not, in fact, equal. We've put minorities in a fragile glass jar, like anything we say will destroy it easily, even if it's something dumb like "You're an asshole." We've gone in the opposite direction that we should.
People are smarter than that now. We know, collectively, that blacks aren't savages, that Jews aren't inherently good with money, that Mexicans aren't inherently lazy, and that Americans aren't all morbidly obese.
And if one video game is enough to sway their viewpoint then there's more wrong with them than racism. Is there bound to be some racist fucker out there that honestly believes that blacks are savages and are just a giant waste of skin and hair? Probably. But watching the trailer for RE5 didn't make him that way. And playing the game won't make anybody else that way.
Precisely.
But don't you see? There's still a few ignorant people out there, so that means we all have to cater to them.
If you don't look for racism in every little thing, the racists win.
And a great proof of this is this refusal to debate earlier in the thread: "Don't you dare compare American fatties to African savages".
Please name a country where AIDS is as endemic a threat as Africa? Can you really truly not see the comparisons between the two threats and their motifs?
All I'm saying is it is easy to see how RE5 would cause a lot of controversy that revolves around racism. I doubt the game is designed to be racist, but it still APPEARS racist. If you don't understand why, well...I don't know what to say.
Get the fuck over it. Every race equally succumbs to a bullet in the head.
I would hate that. I'll raise my own children, thank you very much. The last thing I need is the government telling me what is and isn't appropriate entertainment for my child. If I can't figure that out on my own then I'm and unfit parent, but if I know my 16 year old can handle Police Academy and Halo then who are you tell me different?
I had a colleague at a place I worked at a few months ago. He was a Sri Lankan guy, nice person, good engineer, and unfortunately for him a heavy accent to go along with his dark complexion. People kept calling him "curry boy", telling him to "go home and swing from trees", calling him "blackie" and other bullshit. And those were some of the nicer comments. And they said it in a joking fashion, as if it was no big deal that they were being such racist asshats.
And this guy couldn't really say anything to defend himself (really, he wasn't in a position to), so he just had to grin and bear it all the time. But it was obvious to anyone with half a brain how much those comments hurt him and how difficult it was for him to hear this crap time and again. But "It's all just jokes squire, we don't MEAN any of it".
If I tried to stand up for him it would become an issue of me being too "PC", which essentially means I'm not allowed to spoil their fun for anything. And even though they always said it with a joking air it was obvious there was also some malice behind it, because HE didn't belong there, he was DIFFERENT enough, he probably took some other, white engineers job too. You hear the gossip and the jokes. But you can't call a person on the jokes right? You're being such a prude if you are. I also know it affected his work and his working relationship with others, because they always saw him as different.
I'm not for avoiding problems. But saying that he has to "get over his sensitivity" just because it's not a direct physical attack, and as long it's all done with a humourous manner (a joke here and there, nudge nudge wink wink, he don't take offence at it shurely squire, we don't mean nothing by it, it's just 'armless fun), is utter crap to me and I will never, NEVER accept it. This may be off topic, but it's something I'll never forget. I was utterly shocked that people still behave like that even today, and if anything it's tought me this behaviour is far more endemic than I used to think. If everyone is in on the joke it's one thing. Being a racist jerk to someone you barely know and thinking it's just a joke is another.
But what do I know eh? It's all just guys having a laugh. Gosh, people should really stop being so uptight about that crap.
I don't want to get too involved in this thread or its ridiculousness, but I do want to distingish that ignoring race and ignoring racism are two different things, a point which I feel several people are missing. In your example, neither statement is necessarily racist depending on what you think is different and what the context is. Say, if a white person says a given thing to a black person, it is NOT the same thing as if a black person said it to a black person, or a black person said it to a white person, because their relationships are already different before the conversation starts.
I can truly say that the comparison is irrelevant.
The whole "one drop of blood and you're infected" thing started with Night of the Living Dead, the movie that pioneered the zombie. But, funny thing. The protagonist was black. Not only that, but NoTD was made in the 60s. Not exactly a racism-free time. It's kind of hard to argue that zombies themselves are racist when the movie that made the zombie what it is had a positive portrayal of a black person.
Subedii: You can take that shit elsewhere, because you took my words for what you wanted them to be. Racism truly exists. There are people that hate blacks because they are black. Making racist jokes isn't funny, it really isn't. I'd never do anything to hurt someone's feelings by insulting their heritage. But that's not our issue here, it's that anything can be taken as racist. I called a friend of mine a dick a few days ago. He's white. If I said it to a black person, no doubt someone would call it racism. That's the issue here. We're pointing out anything that can be taken as offensive as being inherently racist.
Oh, good god. Was that a refusal to debate? Really? Or was I just pointing out how stupid it is to think that the fatty stereotype in any way nearly causes as much ignorance and bigotry as the savage stereotype?
That's just ridiculous. Look, I can't help that every single one of your friend was an idiot, and that the kids you see when you step outside are idiots, but here, they're not becoming racist with the help of games.
If it bothered him then he should have spoken up, and if it bother you then you should have spoken up. Or talked to a manager. Or HR. There are many many options available that are better than "grin and bear it."
It appears racist because it is a game where a white guy shoots black guys.
Of course we understand that.
It's very stupid, though, and a product of ignorance, laziness, and sensationalism, with a hearty helping of political correctness thrown in the mix. Please understand that, for me, the "appearance" of racism here is completely irrelevant. I honestly don't care what it "looks like" to ignorant complainers. I don't care that the trailer "looks" racist. People that actually think for themselves will see that it isn't.
Well the article wasn't saying all zombies are racists, just these zombies are racist.
Huh...that is one sentance I never in a million years would have expected to write.
Holy shit.
You're kidding, right?
You're not really bringing this as an argument to the present debate?
No. No. You have to be kidding.
No one is that retarded.
No one would seriously compare "actual racial comments said to someone because of his race" with "game where you kill all the enemies, no matter what color they'd be".
What did I, my brother, his GF, all of my friends, my father, my mother, every family member I've got who plays games, become because of games?
The only thing videogames turned me into is a gamer.
You think I didn't? End result was it's all just guys having fun. Oh, and I'm too uptight about these things. And like I said, he wasn't in much of a position to rock the boat. If he raised it for himself I have little doubt it would have made things worse for him.
@Djiem: My comments were in response to ZombieMambo's comments. Like I said, they're probably off topic, and not so much in relation to the game and issue at hand. But I just felt I couldn't let that one lie. That event really ticked me off. People have a tendancy to brush off racism as just being too uptight.
I got called into HR once to testify against a coworker (the white lady sitting next to me) for repeatedly making racist comments about black people. And I told HR that she, in fact, made me cringe quite often with her comments.
This crap about RE5 is absolutely nothing at all like the racism you are talking about.
Nothing.
At.
All.
Well, they mentioned that the tiniest drop of blood will infect a person, and undoubtedly turn them into a member of the living dead. They compare this to AIDs. This "fact" about zombies has been around for a long time, therefore all zombies must be racist to some degree. But where it originated was not racist, it was anti-racist during a racist time.
Independent of whether his point is valid or not, he's not using it against the game, he's using it against the people who think minorities just need to loosen up.
Yeah, but putting it in the context of Africa - says the article - allows it to make a point about AIDs. I think it's wrong, but it's an interesting view.
Well, they do need to loosen up. They need to not be oversensitive about things that aren't racist. They have every right to be offended by actual racist things. They have no right to be offended by non-racist things.