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Lojack for Laptops?

NikolisNikolis Registered User regular
edited August 2007 in Games and Technology
So just receiving my brand new shiny laptop for school, I was curious if LoJack is a good investment or if anybody has had any experience with it. Between having it on campus and taking it to PAX there are plenty of opportuintys for my laptop to be stolen so I thought it might be a good 50 dollar investment. They say 3/4 laptops are recovered and that in works silently, but all the "testimonials" on the website are so obviously fake it's hard to believe them.

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    slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    It came with my laptop. I honestly can't say how well the service works, because my laptop has not been stolen.

    I can tell you that it doesn't apparently take up much resources for the PC while running, though, so that's nice.



    It works like this. You install the software, which runs on little resources in the background of your PC. You then go to the Lojack website, and you register your laptop there; you give it a serial number, make, and model as well as your own personal/contact information.


    The software basically messages the lojack servers every time it connects to the internet, giving it IP address. So that once your Laptop is stolen, you can contact Lojack, and they'll have the most recent IP address logged. Lojack say they work with your local police from there to try and retrieve the lost system.


    It sounds good. Since I got it for free, it can't hurt. I guess the $50 is a matter of whether you think you'll be in enough situations where your laptop might get swiped.

    slash000 on
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    gneGnegneGne Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    So it gets stolen and your laptop seems to be somewhere in the US. What now?

    gneGne on
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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I wonder if it's any better than the car version. It was nice, but nothing that worked too well.

    I wonder how long it'll be before they put a GPS receiver in there to track it if stolen.

    ArcSyn on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    gneGne wrote: »
    So it gets stolen and your laptop seems to be somewhere in the US. What now?

    Having an IP and access time are a bit more useful than that to the police.

    MKR on
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    Bob SappBob Sapp Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Sounds like the thief would have to log on to your Windows account for lojack to get a helpful IP. If all they're doing is wiping the system and selling it, how would they get caught (I'm assuming the account has a password on it which would prevent accidentally logging in)?

    Bob Sapp on
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    gneGnegneGne Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    You really think the police will help?

    gneGne on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    gneGne wrote: »
    You really think the police will help?


    Yes. Theft is a crime, and it's fairly easy for them to find the culprit if they connect to the internet, and in this case it's easy to prosecute. Even the laziest of police will handle such a case.

    MKR on
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    NickTheNewbieNickTheNewbie Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    GPS would be so much more effective...

    NickTheNewbie on
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited August 2007
    Getting an IP address means pretty much a free arrest for the police. Looks good in the statistics.

    Echo on
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    NikolisNikolis Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    It's going on a MacBook, if that makes a difference. And yea, the thing I don't like is that the only way I guess for them to track is IF the person who stole it connects to the internet. On the plus side, if you can call it that, if they don't find your laptop in 30 days you get your 50 bucks back. :|

    Nikolis on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    GPS would be so much more effective...

    I don't think you understand how GPS works. The GPS consumers get to use is passive. It averages the signal from several satellites to get an idea of where it is.

    MKR on
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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Nikolis wrote: »
    It's going on a MacBook, if that makes a difference. And yea, the thing I don't like is that the only way I guess for them to track is IF the person who stole it connects to the internet. On the plus side, if you can call it that, if they don't find your laptop in 30 days you get your 50 bucks back. :|

    I'd be happier if they gave you the purchase price of the laptop.. But meh.

    ArcSyn on
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    slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MKR wrote: »
    gneGne wrote: »
    So it gets stolen and your laptop seems to be somewhere in the US. What now?

    Having an IP and access time are a bit more useful than that to the police.



    And IP and an access time can get you a suspect immediately.


    After Lojack gives the police the IP and access time, they police simply look at the ISP and go to them. They can tell you exactly whose account that IP was assigned to at that time. They can also tell you the name and address of the person for this account.

    The police can get a name and address from an IP address that easily. It would take less than an hour.
    Bob Sapp wrote: »
    Sounds like the thief would have to log on to your Windows account for lojack to get a helpful IP. If all they're doing is wiping the system and selling it, how would they get caught (I'm assuming the account has a password on it which would prevent accidentally logging in)?



    Good point. Maybe I should make a 'Guest' account so that if a theif takes my laptop, they can log in with that and send Lojack its IP info.


    If they're wiping the system, it's unlikely that they would not turn it on to test it first. It only takes a single login for Lojack to do its job.

    slash000 on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    slash000 wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    gneGne wrote: »
    So it gets stolen and your laptop seems to be somewhere in the US. What now?

    Having an IP and access time are a bit more useful than that to the police.



    And IP and an access time can get you a suspect immediately.


    After Lojack gives the police the IP and access time, they police simply look at the ISP and go to them. They can tell you exactly whose account that IP was assigned to at that time. They can also tell you the name and address of the person for this account.

    The police can get a name and address from an IP address that easily. It would take less than an hour.
    Bob Sapp wrote: »
    Sounds like the thief would have to log on to your Windows account for lojack to get a helpful IP. If all they're doing is wiping the system and selling it, how would they get caught (I'm assuming the account has a password on it which would prevent accidentally logging in)?



    Good point. Maybe I should make a 'Guest' account so that if a theif takes my laptop, they can log in with that and send Lojack its IP info.


    If they're wiping the system, it's unlikely that they would not turn it on to test it first. It only takes a single login for Lojack to do its job.

    Unless Mac does something differently than other UNIXes, the networking services start up before any non-system logins occur. I doubt lojack depends on a user logging in.

    MKR on
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    slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MKR wrote: »
    GPS would be so much more effective...

    I don't think you understand how GPS works. The GPS consumers get to use is passive. It averages the signal from several satellites to get an idea of where it is.



    Here's the thing. GPS would be very expensive, and it'd have to be built into the laptop hardware. Which means you wouldn't be able to buy it as a software package after having a laptop; you'd have to order a laptop with GPS hardware built-in.

    Now. You can use cheap, consumer level GPS on laptop theft security. Yes, it is passive. It would use several satellites to get an idea of where it is -- then it would contact Lojack (or whoever) and send them this information. Thus, it would have to have GPS, sure, but also utilize the 'connect/send to Lojack' method of providing its own location.


    It would work, but you'd have to pay at least $100 for the GPS hardware, probably, and have it built into the laptop itself, which no company does for the average consumer, and then pay whatever amount for the connect/send software.

    slash000 on
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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MKR wrote: »
    GPS would be so much more effective...

    I don't think you understand how GPS works. The GPS consumers get to use is passive. It averages the signal from several satellites to get an idea of where it is.

    I think he means (as I meant) that the laptop would acquire and track it's GPS coords then upload them to the security company next time it was connected to the internet (through wifi hotspots perhaps or their house).

    Give the police a clue as to where it's at. Combine that with it's IP and time it got connected and they could pinpoint it.

    I would pay the extra for GPS, especially if I could combine it with google maps or something and have a directions system built into my laptop.

    ArcSyn on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    slash000 wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    GPS would be so much more effective...

    I don't think you understand how GPS works. The GPS consumers get to use is passive. It averages the signal from several satellites to get an idea of where it is.



    Here's the thing. GPS would be very expensive, and it'd have to be built into the laptop hardware. Which means you wouldn't be able to buy it as a software package after having a laptop; you'd have to order a laptop with GPS hardware built-in.

    Now. You can use cheap, consumer level GPS on laptop theft security. Yes, it is passive. It would use several satellites to get an idea of where it is -- then it would contact Lojack (or whoever) and send them this information. Thus, it would have to have GPS, sure, but also utilize the 'connect/send to Lojack' method of providing its own location.

    It would work, but you'd have to pay at least $100 for the GPS hardware, probably, and have it built into the laptop itself, which no company does for the average consumer, and then pay whatever amount for the connect/send software.


    And on top of that, GPS won't give you an address or name. :)

    MKR on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    GPS would be so much more effective...

    I don't think you understand how GPS works. The GPS consumers get to use is passive. It averages the signal from several satellites to get an idea of where it is.

    I think he means (as I meant) that the laptop would acquire and track it's GPS coords then upload them to the security company next time it was connected to the internet (through wifi hotspots perhaps or their house).

    Give the police a clue as to where it's at. Combine that with it's IP and time it got connected and they could pinpoint it.

    I would pay the extra for GPS, especially if I could combine it with google maps or something and have a directions system built into my laptop.

    An IP and time will still be more accurate. "Within 100 feet of this co-ordinate" doesn't really help, and doesn't do much good when getting a warrant to arrest someone. An IP and a time, and a statement from the ISP is actionable.

    MKR on
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    slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MKR wrote: »
    Unless Mac does something differently than other UNIXes, the networking services start up before any non-system logins occur. I doubt lojack depends on a user logging in.



    You're right, I'm pretty sure Lojack runs behind the login screen.

    But the problem is that, at least with Windows, the machine won't log into a Wifi signal that it is not already told to connect to.

    For example, when I boot up my Vista laptop for the first time, it tells me there's a bunch of wifi signals I can connect to. It wont' connect to them automatically. I have to click on the taskbar, say Connect to Such and Such wifi, and then everytime thereafter it will automatically connect to that wifi SSID with those settings. I'm not sure if it does this at the login screen, but it might.


    However, the problem is that if the thing is stolen, there won't be an already-set-up Wifi SSID in the area for Windows to log into automatically. The theif would have to log into the machine and then tell it to log into a wifi connection in the area first.

    Thus, they'd have to be able to log in first for lojack to help.

    Otherwise, a user like me could just tell vista/windows to just log in automatically, but that's not very good for privacy. I think a Guest account would be the best option.

    slash000 on
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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MKR wrote: »
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    GPS would be so much more effective...

    I don't think you understand how GPS works. The GPS consumers get to use is passive. It averages the signal from several satellites to get an idea of where it is.

    I think he means (as I meant) that the laptop would acquire and track it's GPS coords then upload them to the security company next time it was connected to the internet (through wifi hotspots perhaps or their house).

    Give the police a clue as to where it's at. Combine that with it's IP and time it got connected and they could pinpoint it.

    I would pay the extra for GPS, especially if I could combine it with google maps or something and have a directions system built into my laptop.

    An IP and time will still be more accurate. "Within 100 feet of this co-ordinate" doesn't really help, and doesn't do much good when getting a warrant to arrest someone. An IP and a time, and a statement from the ISP is actionable.

    What happens though if they log in at a starbucks? Then you don't have anything. If you had GPS you could at least see where it was tracked from and next time it logged in it would give you an update of where it's been/is now. I'm not saying go with an only GPS method, I'm just saying that getting a name and address and warrant for an IP address takes time. If they're given a GPS coord at the same time they could at least know where it's at and possibly arrest them while they enjoy a latte.

    ArcSyn on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    slash000 wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    Unless Mac does something differently than other UNIXes, the networking services start up before any non-system logins occur. I doubt lojack depends on a user logging in.



    You're right, I'm pretty sure Lojack runs behind the login screen.

    But the problem is that, at least with Windows, the machine won't log into a Wifi signal that it is not already told to connect to.

    For example, when I boot up my Vista laptop for the first time, it tells me there's a bunch of wifi signals I can connect to. It wont' connect to them automatically. I have to click on the taskbar, say Connect to Such and Such wifi, and then everytime thereafter it will automatically connect to that wifi SSID with those settings. I'm not sure if it does this at the login screen, but it might.


    However, the problem is that if the thing is stolen, there won't be an already-set-up Wifi SSID in the area for Windows to log into automatically. The theif would have to log into the machine and then tell it to log into a wifi connection in the area first.

    Thus, they'd have to be able to log in first for lojack to help.

    Otherwise, a user like me could just tell vista/windows to just log in automatically, but that's not very good for privacy. I think a Guest account would be the best option.

    There's still a chance they'll be hooking it up by cable, so you'd still be more likely to get it back than if you had nothing at all. :)

    But yeah, although having a guest account is poor from a security standpoint, for the reasons it's bad, it won't matter once it's in a thief's hands.

    MKR on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    GPS would be so much more effective...

    I don't think you understand how GPS works. The GPS consumers get to use is passive. It averages the signal from several satellites to get an idea of where it is.

    I think he means (as I meant) that the laptop would acquire and track it's GPS coords then upload them to the security company next time it was connected to the internet (through wifi hotspots perhaps or their house).

    Give the police a clue as to where it's at. Combine that with it's IP and time it got connected and they could pinpoint it.

    I would pay the extra for GPS, especially if I could combine it with google maps or something and have a directions system built into my laptop.

    An IP and time will still be more accurate. "Within 100 feet of this co-ordinate" doesn't really help, and doesn't do much good when getting a warrant to arrest someone. An IP and a time, and a statement from the ISP is actionable.

    What happens though if they log in at a starbucks? Then you don't have anything. If you had GPS you could at least see where it was tracked from and next time it logged in it would give you an update of where it's been/is now. I'm not saying go with an only GPS method, I'm just saying that getting a name and address and warrant for an IP address takes time. If they're given a GPS coord at the same time they could at least know where it's at and possibly arrest them while they enjoy a latte.

    Don't you have to pay to use their wifi? Unless they manage it in the suckiest way possible, there should be a log of the MAC address, credit/debit card (if it's paid this way), and time.

    MKR on
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    slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    What happens though if they log in at a starbucks? Then you don't have anything. If you had GPS you could at least see where it was tracked from and next time it logged in it would give you an update of where it's been/is now. I'm not saying go with an only GPS method, I'm just saying that getting a name and address and warrant for an IP address takes time. If they're given a GPS coord at the same time they could at least know where it's at and possibly arrest them while they enjoy a latte.

    You might have security videos at starbucks of the person walking in with a laptop. You might have credit card information if that person buys something.

    You could also sit tight and see if the theif takes the machine to a residence and logs in after his coffee run.


    It's unlikely that even if you found your laptop stolen, that you could contact lojack and have them report the GPS information to you and the police in time to bust the criminal while they are still at starbucks anyway. I mean, you'd have to find your laptop stolen, report it to lojack, have lojack contact the police, and then have the police contact you for a statement or whatever and then have them check the starbucks; all in less than the time that the thief would be sitting and drinking some coffee.


    It's more likely that they could bust the person based on either the credit info (if they use it rather than cash), or maybe get some video of the person, or more likely, just find the laptop the next time it logs into something less public.

    Lojack continuously records the IP. If one location isn't sufficient, it might suck, but you can wait for a better and more useful IP to be logged the next time the stolen laptop is used.

    slash000 on
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    unpurposedunpurposed Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    This is something I've been wondering about, now that I'm off to college. Let's hope I don't get a shady roommate, but it's always good to consider laptop security.

    Pads, locks, etc. What do people recommend to make sure that laptops don't get stolen?

    unpurposed on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    unpurposed wrote: »
    This is something I've been wondering about, now that I'm off to college. Let's hope I don't get a shady roommate, but it's always good to consider laptop security.

    Pads, locks, etc. What do people recommend to make sure that laptops don't get stolen?

    Get a good roommate, HD encryption, tracking services, a big angry face sticker on the back.

    MKR on
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    slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I think a good chain and lock are a better solution in general than software theft security.

    I plan on using both a chain/lock and this Lojack software that came with my laptop.


    I haven't looked into chains/locks yet, though.

    slash000 on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    What is a lock and chain going to do?

    Unless you keep it tethered down (why would you get a laptop if you're doing this?), all a theif has to do is unscrew the HD cover, and plop the drive in one of their other stolen laptops.

    MKR on
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    Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    The real key is just making sure your door is locked when you're not in there. Especially when you go to the bathroom. At another school my friend's iPod got stolen out of the bottom of his drawer, under stuff, when he went to go take a leak...

    Also, isn't there a version of this program that will also take a picture with the iSight if you report it stolen and it connects? I swear I saw that a year ago.

    EDIT: and yeah, a chain does help, because most thefts that happen aren't planned, they're just thefts of convenience. Someone sees a laptop just lying somewhere and all they have to do is grab it. They make the decision right there. Of course if they plan to steal your laptop, well, then a chain won't be enough, but you get the idea... it deters the easiest, and probably most common kind of theft.

    Shazkar Shadowstorm on
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    mr_ekimmr_ekim Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    It's too bad this sort of implementation isn't installed directly onto the NIC (or motherboard for that matter) in the form of a small, low powered chip or even as part of the NIC's firmware.

    Edit: And in response to physical solutions, I don't think anything short of putting the laptop in a case and carrying it around with you all day will prevent theft. A watchful eye and maybe some sort of simple deterrent (like the aforementioned chain/lock combo) is the best you can do.

    mr_ekim on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    mr_ekim wrote: »
    It's too bad this sort of implementation isn't installed directly onto the NIC (or motherboard for that matter) in the form of a small, low powered chip or even as part of the NIC's firmware.

    Lots of laptops have that. This Dell Inspiron has it. :P

    MKR on
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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    mr_ekim wrote: »
    It's too bad this sort of implementation isn't installed directly onto the NIC (or motherboard for that matter) in the form of a small, low powered chip or even as part of the NIC's firmware.

    brilliant.

    the rope-chains are nice that lock into the security hole on the laptop. You can tie it to a table leg or desk or something if you need to leave it at the library while you go to the bathroom or find another book. You can also use it in your dorm room to make sure it stays there.

    ArcSyn on
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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MKR wrote: »
    mr_ekim wrote: »
    It's too bad this sort of implementation isn't installed directly onto the NIC (or motherboard for that matter) in the form of a small, low powered chip or even as part of the NIC's firmware.

    Lots of laptops have that. This Dell Inspiron has it. :P

    It does? I thought they just offered the software version too.

    ArcSyn on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    mr_ekim wrote: »
    It's too bad this sort of implementation isn't installed directly onto the NIC (or motherboard for that matter) in the form of a small, low powered chip or even as part of the NIC's firmware.

    Lots of laptops have that. This Dell Inspiron has it. :P

    It does? I thought they just offered the software version too.

    http://www.absolute.com/products-bios-enabled-computers.asp

    MKR on
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    unpurposedunpurposed Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    mr_ekim wrote: »
    It's too bad this sort of implementation isn't installed directly onto the NIC (or motherboard for that matter) in the form of a small, low powered chip or even as part of the NIC's firmware.

    brilliant.

    the rope-chains are nice that lock into the security hole on the laptop. You can tie it to a table leg or desk or something if you need to leave it at the library while you go to the bathroom or find another book. You can also use it in your dorm room to make sure it stays there.

    Security hole? Where is this normally found? I've got a year old Vaio.

    unpurposed on
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    slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MKR wrote: »
    What is a lock and chain going to do?

    Unless you keep it tethered down (why would you get a laptop if you're doing this?), all a theif has to do is unscrew the HD cover, and plop the drive in one of their other stolen laptops.


    Think of it in the same way you might think of a bike lock.



    My girlfriend, her freshman year of college, had a laptop. She put it on her desk in her dorm room, where her room mate was sleeping, while my gf was at lunch in the cafeteria. It wasn't chained to anything, it was just sitting there.

    Her roomate gets up and goes to get her laundry from down the hall, leaving the door unlocked.


    She comes back, and the laptop is gone.



    It was that simple. Theives will watch for people that leave their rooms unattended with the doors unlocked, then run in there to grab something they can carry, and run out. She never got the laptop back.


    Now she keeps her (new) laptop chained to her desk when she's not carrying it with her. If she takes it to the library, she either carries it with her to the bathroom (in the case of course), or chains it to a leg of one of the cubicles.


    It's better to prevent a theft than to rely on finding a laptop after it's been stolen.

    slash000 on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    unpurposed wrote: »
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    mr_ekim wrote: »
    It's too bad this sort of implementation isn't installed directly onto the NIC (or motherboard for that matter) in the form of a small, low powered chip or even as part of the NIC's firmware.

    brilliant.

    the rope-chains are nice that lock into the security hole on the laptop. You can tie it to a table leg or desk or something if you need to leave it at the library while you go to the bathroom or find another book. You can also use it in your dorm room to make sure it stays there.

    Security hole? Where is this normally found? I've got a year old Vaio.

    It'll be the hole that doesn't seem to have a purpose.

    MKR on
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    GrimReaperGrimReaper Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Is there anything like this in the UK?

    I've got a Macbook Pro on order (i'd have it right now and a 40% discount, but they messed up the order and got one with a matte screen instead of glossy.. so waiting a few weeks for the damn glossy mb pro).

    I had a look on lojacks website and it mentioned a UK site but that only focuses on vehicle stuff.

    GrimReaper on
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    slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Those holes seem kind of flimsy to me. I wish they were larger (larger meaning the piece of chassis that holds the chain/lock in, not necessarily the hole diameter). I think some of them are reinforced with the chassis of the laptop, but they still seem kinda small. I guess they're good enough to prevent a 'run in, steal, run out' situation though.

    slash000 on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    slash000 wrote: »
    Those holes seem kind of flimsy to me. I wish they were larger (larger meaning the piece of chassis that holds the chain/lock in, not necessarily the hole diameter). I think some of them are reinforced with the chassis of the laptop, but they still seem kinda small. I guess they're good enough to prevent a 'run in, steal, run out' situation though.

    Every laptop I've had has the hole as part of the inner metal structure.

    MKR on
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    slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MKR wrote: »
    slash000 wrote: »
    Those holes seem kind of flimsy to me. I wish they were larger (larger meaning the piece of chassis that holds the chain/lock in, not necessarily the hole diameter). I think some of them are reinforced with the chassis of the laptop, but they still seem kinda small. I guess they're good enough to prevent a 'run in, steal, run out' situation though.

    Every laptop I've had has the hole as part of the inner metal structure.


    OK.. I guess it should suffice then. :^:

    slash000 on
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