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Rejection
Drakeon
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I've been looking for a girlfriend for about 5 months now and I've come up short. Basically, I suck at talking to people in person and I've been trying several online dating sites, which have yet so far to work. On the current Online dating site I'm using (Match.com if that helps), I've attempted to contact quite a few girls and not one of them has responded with a yes (infact, most of them don't respond at all, they just seemingly ignore my communication). I'm making this thread because it just seems... hopeless, I'm at my wit's end here, I've been looking for 5-6 months now and I've only ever met one person in real life from it and that fell through. I just keep getting rejection after rejection and it just gets to me. What should I do? Should I try to focus on something other than girls for a week or so? Should I keep trying? Should I be looking for girls in real life instead of the online world?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Any advice would be appreciated.
PSN: Drakieon XBL: Drakieon Steam: TheDrakeon
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This is your problem. Don't do this.
Join some clubs. Get yourself into a band, if you play an instrument. Join a theatre group. Take some classes in college or university.
Don't go "looking". It never happens when you're "looking".
-Robert E. Howard
Tower of the Elephant
As for online dating, all the women I know who have tried it, even less attractive ones, get hit on constantly from 18-50 year olds. It's not like they studied your approach, sized you up, read the tea leaves and decided not to respond. If a woman is getting 20 emails a day, she'll probably only respond to a few of them and ignore the rest. You might want to change your approach, but don't take it personally.
Lastly, don't be desperate. Being single can suck and I don't enjoy it much myself, but when you're too focused on landing a girl, it shows. Keep looking, both online and off, but try not to make too big a deal of it. Be a little aloof, fake some confidence, and trust that it will happen at some point.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
If your going to insist on trying the online thing, here's some advice. Stand out from the crowd. For every one girl on a dating site, there is about 10-20 guys who are going to write to her, so you have to really make yourself special in order for her to want to write back to you. Don't send a 2-line opening e-mail, put some real thought into what you say to her. Show her that you read her profile or posting, and talk about shared interests. If your profile doesn't have a photo, get one, but not just any photo. Pick a photo that makes you look good, not just a random webcam shot. Try to shy away from cheesy one-liners or stupid jokes.
Most important of all though:
And NO BATHROOM PICS!
Take the time to have someone take your picture, or select a picture taken by someone else who sent it to you.
l0lz batrum pix.
-Robert E. Howard
Tower of the Elephant
I think your problem is that you're looking for a girlfriend, not a companion or a girl or even really a person. You're giving me the impression that you just want a warm body that's nice to look at. I can guarantee that any girl you're talking to is getting the same impression.
For online dating, if you want to be taken seriously, you HAVE to have a serious profile, and you have to show that you're able to actually talk to people and be normal. There are a lot of geeky girls and boys on dating websites, but they will naturally respond to people who seem like they have a life. It's more attractive.
Think of it this way. To get a girlfriend or boyfriend, you first have to meet the person. You then have to see each other a few times, and after a few meetings you will realize "hey, I think this person is my boyfriend/girlfriend." You can ask at that point, if you're curious, but a lot of people don't ever ask and it's just assumed, at least until a major life event occurs.
Dating that is exclusively online is a different beast, and I'll assume it's not what you're looking for.
Stop looking for a girlfriend. Look for a girl you'd like to talk to, find at least somewhat attractive, and who is single. Then you must ask if they'd like to get together or meet or, if online, at least look at your profile. And then you must be prepared to spend at least a short amount of time meeting them and talking to them, face to face.
When I did some online dating stuff, quite a while ago by now, I followed a trajectory that went from meeting online and talking exclusively online, to the point where we never actually met (often from distance reasons and impracticality); to talking to girls online and then talking on the phone for a very long time, often getting along well over the phone w/o actually seeing the girl, and then she's really boring in person or an unattractive body shape; to sending a message online saying "hey I saw your profile, I'm also on campus and was wondering if you'd be up for coffee or something to meet up and chat. I've got a profile w/ pic on here as well." And then talking on the phone only to set up the first meeting.
I'm going to have to disagree.
Most single people are single because they wait for a relationship to fall in their lap, perhaps as a result of the somewhat naive and misconstrued belief that if they wait long enough, the "right" girl will come along and she'll like them for who they are and all that jazz.
There is nothing wrong with going around looking for a girlfriend as long as one doesn't come across as needy and desperate. Finding a girlfriend doesn't have to be like rolling the dice; it is perfectly fine to put in some effort to improve your odds, and the best way to do that is to go on a lot of dates and see where they lead.
edit: I agree with EggyToast though... if you're looking for "girlfriend" the archetype, you will never find it. People like to be perceived as people first and girlfriend/boyfriend material second.
--
As far as match.com goes, they did some research and found out that the average girl on any online dating site gets between 20 to 50 (fifty) emails a day. So at first they are flattered by all the male interest, but after a while they get tired of reading all the emails, and they start skimming through. After that, they stop reading the actual emails altogether and only take a peek at the ones with interesting subject lines (probably not the ones that go "hey" "hello" "hi", etc.).
What I'm trying to say is that you need to find ways to put yourself above the pack. When I did match.com, I ran a test. I sent 50 generic, boring emails in which I talk about myself and my hobbies etc., and I sent 50 emails in which I'm joked around, made fun of something they said in their profiles, hyperbolizing it to the point of ridiculousness, etc.
Results: The generic batch had a reply rate of 0%. Zero. Nadda. The funny batch on the other hand had up to 50% reply rate, and the replies would start with something like "oh my god i read your email and i laughed out loud!" Landing a date after that point was no big deal (sometimes it was suggested by THEM that we should go on a date).
Actually, if you read my post I state that he should get out, do stuff, join clubs and groups and organizations to meet as many people as possible. My comment about not actively looking stems from the reality that when someone adopts that mentality two things occur;
1. They tend to "vibe" that "I'm looking for someone" vibe, and if it goes on too long unsatisfied it starts to smell like desperation.
2. As time goes by with the mentality of "looking for someone" it is more and more likely that one will simply opt for the first thing that comes along and that may not be a good thing.
Making oneself available and meeting new people is the optimal route.
-Robert E. Howard
Tower of the Elephant
Keep up your appearance as well - hygiene, fitness, grooming, fashion, etc
"No. I don't think of you that way."
"We're just friends, Geoff."
"You're a REALLY nice guy, Geoff, but I just wanna be friends, k?"
So on, so forth. You know what? It stings a bit but then I usually turn it into a joke and move on. Its better to put yourself out there, try to find out and be rejected than to just sit there timidly and let the girl think you're a puss for not making a move.
The advice on whether or not you should wait for a relationship or pursue it is hard to determine. I've had girls come to me, but they've been girls that I've enjoyed as friends but wouldn't care to pursue in a relationship for many reasons. The one girl I've REALLY liked I pursued for about... 3-4 months with a consistent... "No." "No." "No." She wouldn't answer my calls and I'd see her at school in the clubs we were in together. Eventually though she came around and we had a good year and a half relationship.
Why am I telling you this? Don't just start talking to every girl you see expecting something to come of it. Of course talk to them, but just feel it all out. Setting your expectations too high is always something that will make it hurt more in the end, because you have to fall from the expectations when it doesn't work out.
Does it still hurt to get rejected (not just girls)? Hell ya. But you learn from it and move on.
Also, I take a pretty dim view of online dating. I've tried it, I've known other people who have tried it, and in my experience it's a pretty poor way to go about it. Sure, there are the success stories, the friend-of-a-friend who met his/her spouse online and lived happier ever after, but most of the people I know just have lots of strike outs. I think I've only dated five women I met online, and only one of them got past the third date. IMO that's pretty shitty.
Instead, just go out there and do stuff. My suggestion? Start taking classes. Find four or five skills or hobbies that you really want to learn and go find instructors or junior college courses in them. For instance, maybe you want to learn how to play the piano or guitar. Or ballroom dancing. Snowboarding. Painting. Creative writing. Whatever... the point is that this gets you into a group setting, doing something you enjoy, with other people who are interested in the same things as you.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
If you join groups and start dating girls in that group, people are going to think you don't really care about the subject but are just there to hook up. A lot of single girls will look at a guy who joins a group like that, and who starts talking to the ladies, as predatory.
Not to mention that a LOT of social groups are couples-based.
I think strikeouts are healthy and a good way to know what you like in a partner. You just gotta know when it's a strikeout and not worry about it. When I was dating, I had lots of strikeouts until I met someone who wasn't. That's no different than, well, most any dating situation. In fact, the only ones that are strikeout averse are situations that require a long period of time to grow a circle of friends with single girls in it and slowly get to know those single girls, eventually asking one of them out when it's a sure thing. It works, but it's not for everyone.
Random thoughts to help you (and if they sound familiar to alot of what has been said thats because - Feral Eggy and the rest are giving you good stuff) -
Self improvement.
Self improvement.
Self improvement.
Start working out (if not to loose weight, the for the self confidence fitness brings); you do not have to be handsome- just well groomed and confident. Even if you do not get a gal quickly the self improvement will make you feel 1000 times better about yourself. And You are building value in yourself; and eventually it will help with women (they are attracted to value).
Read 'the game' by Neil Strauss. Its about his transformation from a complete writer nerd into a pickup artist (arguably the greatest in the world for his time) and him then promptly leaving the scene. Am I saying become a pick up artist? No, and neither is the book. But it teaches alot about human nature; a whole lot about how girls think. And most importantly what they are attracted to (confidence, value, mystery). It applys to the online stuff just as well as in person. A good read.
I have had some great success on match. The funny email thing is 1000 percent right. It works. you may feel odd but be a little outlandish. It sticks out.
And, again from 'the game' and totally agreeing with Eggy, striking out is key. Go do it 1000 times. You are learning when you do (or gd it you should be). It helps build confidence.
You should do both online and off. They can work together. Go join clubs; expand your social circles.
Both earlier posters are right- You should go looking for a girlfriend, BUT never appear as such. Don't be needy.
Original poster answer some Q's :
How fit are you?
Do you go out with friends regularly?
Do you have a tight RL social circle?
I hope some of that helps. Don't give up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYTYS5vUybI
Some things to note with women: They get hit on all the time by other guys just like you that want to take them out for coffee. What makes you stand out? It needs to be different and awesome. This doesn't mean be yourself, it means be yourself and more.
You have to be confidant and prove that you have it together as well. People that have stable jobs, are in control of themselves, and have a direction in life are more attractive then people that are a train wreck and full of drama.
Make yourself the prize. This one is something I've been doing recently and it works and it's fun. It doesn't mean inflate your ego beyond the recommended rating, but it does help you maintain confidance as well as generating the interest of the other party. With the girl I'm courting currently I'll say things like "Hey here's a line from a poem, if you can identify it or the author you could be on your way to getting my number" or "You know, I WAS going to ask you for dinner and a show, but if you're not even going to bother flattering me..." or "You know, you might just have your own ring tone if you keep this up". Women like a little challenge. This doesn't mean be impossible, but they do like to prove that they are special and that they deserve our attention.
You need to remind yourself that you are awesome and that you are someone a woman wants to be with. This doesn't give you a license to be an ass or to be disrespectful to women and if you use this for the dark side I'll be some pissed.
Also, and likely this will cause a giant shit storm in this thread but I'll say it because it CAN help, go pick up a copy of The Game by Neil Strauss and read it. You don't have to live your life by it and you can think it's dumb or think it's crap and even if you think that it's still a good read and has interesting stories. If you don't want to spend money on this book then sign up for David DeAngelo's news letter. This is pick up artist crap, and I'm not willing to go to the extent that a lot of them go to because it seems too much like manipulation, but it does have some gems of advice that every man can use to improve themselves and be better at dating.
It's becoming more of an accepted medium because both men and women are shy. The girl I'm courting I met online. She made her ad because a girl she works with made an ad and wanted to try it. It's all about how you present and how you think about it. If you go in thinking "This isn't going to work" then it's not going to work and good job on shooting yourself down before you got up in the air. Oddly, people also meet playing MMOs. Again, said girl's older brother met his wife playing WoW.
I think online ads are much better then meeting someone at a bar where it's the same people week after week that just want a hook up and you can't hear what's going on because it's so fucking loud and you'll never get enough courage to talk to that beautiful girl in the corner because her two friends are always around her and man they're just going to giggle at me and laugh and say no if I go over. And if you do get up the courage to go over then you're probably a little drunk and you're going to screw it up anyway.
So yeah, go internets.
It's very, very individual. It works great for some people, but for others it's a bad idea.
Here's a bit of irony that I've noticed in my own experience. I find that geeks/dorks/nerds who are always on teh entarwebz a lot anyway (l0lz maeking poasts) don't have a great deal of success with internet dating. Those that aren't are usually successful.
I don't know how true that is globally speaking, but it's my observation.
-Robert E. Howard
Tower of the Elephant
The poetry line- Pure Gold. You just described cat-string theory. You are the string, she is the cat. Stay just in reach and the cat will keep going for the string. You give the cat the string all at once, or make it too elusive, it looses interest. Your line about poetry also makes her validate herself to you, which inherently means.... you have more value than her. Slick.
#1- Play to your strengths. If you're funny, be funny. If you're nervous and shy, don't put on a gregarious air, but don't just be a wallflower either.
#2-Do you have a local place you frequent (bar, coffee shop, et cetera)? If not, find one and hang out there. Get to know some of the regulars/workers, and just stop in for a while on a regular basis. If it's a coffee place, bring a book or laptop. If it's a bar, just have a drink and look approachable. Also, if it's a bar, order a mixed drink, so that someone has a reason to ask what you're drinking. In a social situation like this, it is nearly impossible not to find yourself in conversation after a short time, just look approachable.
If you are sticking with the online route, you might want to try a different service (or a few of them). I suggest checking out Otaku Booty and nerve.com, as well as some others. There are loads out there. Good luck!
Yea, I think I was (I say was because I intend to change my ways after reading this thread) getting to the point that I'd accept the first thing that comes along instead of someone I'm actually interested in.
Thanks for the advice everyone, still reading over the whole thread but I'm definitely going to try some things (I've been trying to build some muscle this summer, but got sidetracked).
Oh and about the college courses, I'm currently planning on taking some (and have been taking courses at the local community college for a year or two now) in the fall.
On thing I forgot to touch on was pictures in your personal ad. Find a picture or two that your female friends think is attractive (you have to ask, it's part of leveling up confidance) and use that picture. The other route you can use is take a picture of yourself and put it on hotornot.com (I am serious) and see what you can get for a rating. When you can get like a 7 I'd use that picture on your ad.
You don't need to always use a picture on your ad though if you're confidant in your writing and can garner some interest in your profile and how you present your opening email and then trade pics later. The current girl told me "You look much better in person" which makes me think that my first four attempts (other girls) didn't work because I had those pictures on top of doing a dumb intro like "I'm __ and like __ and work at ___ and I have __ and into ___". She also told me that she agreed to meet with me because "I enjoyed our conversations".
When you get a dialogue going back and fourth, like when you have recieved her third email you could put in your fourth one "What would you say to meeting up for an hour to test the waters? We could get sandwiches or a bagel" Setting a small time limit on a meeting is good because it's a very very small commitment with a low expectation. It basically says "No pressure" to her and doesn't put much on you because if she's a lemon you only have to through it out for 60 minutes. Another thing with that is it lets you be aloof. You present it as if you have a small opening in your busy schedule and it's on your way to doing something else or that you're going to do it anyway and you're being gracious and allowing her to join you.
Again, when I say being gracious I don't mean it in the sense that you should come off like an ass. Arogance is not sexy. Something that a girl can't have does tend to make them want it more though.
There's nothing wrong with actively looking around and dating people
There is something wrong with looking for a girlfriend (or worse yet a wife) specifically
That's a huge leap to make. Take it easy. Meet people, make friends, make acquaintences, date some people, have fun. Leave it at that. Eventually it'll happen that one of those people will turn into a girlfriend and that'll be fine too.
Being on the prowl for commitment is insane and smart women tend to avoid men doing that because it's creepy and obsessive and weird. Sorry man, I'm just telling you how other people read it.
So don't obsess over having a girlfriend, and you'll probably find it's easier going.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Also, try meeting women in different situations. Don't limit yourself to the internet. Try going out to bars, parks, coffee shops, beaches, classes. Most of the girls I've met have been when we were both in highly social situations like parties or from classes I've taken. If nothing else, you'll find out which places are easiest for you to meet women. I like going to parties and challenging girls to beer pong. To each his own.
Finally, be proud of who you are. For a while, I had a hard time bringing up that I'm majoring in math on a date, at risk of coming off as a huge dork. After a while I just said fuck it and said, yeah I'm a math major, and I know you probably have no interest in math, but its something I'm really passionate about. The key word there was passionate. Women are interested in men who are motivated, regardless of what it is that motivates them. Even if they think you're a loser because of what you're interested in, then no big deal, she's sucks anyway and there will be plenty of other women out there who will like you for what you are.
The more you stress, the less success you will have.
The main thing that helped me with the confidence was the feeling that i looked good. I accomplished this by working out, buying clothes i thought made me look good and working in retail forced me to approach all types of people, all day long.
Once you get used to faking confidence, you will do it naturally.... Then it IS confidence.
Get a girl to proof read your profile and check out your photos. Do exactly as she says. It may go against the core of your being, but by doing this you will have a better profile. This isn't the be all/end all strategy to better profiles, but you'll have more girls noticing you. After that, follow the advice of the above posters.
Tips to a better profile.
1. put up 5 or 6 different photos indoors/ outdoors doing things with friends
2. have 2 different face pics with smiles
3. put effort into answering the questions in your profile - a short summary and incomplete sentences shows you don't care who you attract
4. make sure your grammar and punctuation are correct - nothing is a bigger turn off than ignorance
5. after all this, be yourself
Good luck!
If you can bring yourself to go on your own (or take friends, even better) it's actually really fun.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
fake confidence never becomes real confidence, it will always just be a facade.
real confidence comes from being comfortable with yourself.
dont try to fake confidence, any sensible girl will smell your BS a mile away.
Listen to DrDizaster:
Faking it means going out and even through you're nervous and your heart is racing a mile a minute that you don't let others catch on. And if some girl can use her magical blood hound nose and smell it then you're obviously not faking it right. It's like training wheels on a bike. It's just getting into the situations and keeping your cool until you can do these things naturally.
But yeah, your advice is good if you are already confidant in yourself, but if you're not then you have to start somewhere and by starting there you learn how to become confidant.
My god, they created a monster. He has no idea how badly he comes across - it is such a shame. Confidence is a problem if you're not confident enough to just be yourself. generally speaking, people I know that are described as "very confident" are either just being themselves, or just being a dick.
I guess my caution is just "be yourself" if you cant, then fine - work on it. But "confidence" =/= "personality"