The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Crime: victim stories and the psychology behind it
Rabid_Llama
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So last night I went to a concert where I had backstage passes and got to meet the band and get autographs and stuff. At the very end of the show they let the first couple rows go right up to the stage, my girlfriend and I being on the second row. About a minute and a half into the last song we realize that neither of us are holding our autographed programs (which were $20 each). I started freaking out a bit but my girlfriend seemed to think it was no big deal, as we were about 5 feet from our seats. Unfortunately, she was wrong. after squabbling on the floor for the last 2 minutes of the song, it became appearant that someone had stolen them.
The big thing about the night was the experience the autographs were secondary. But still it really hurt that someone would steal our stuff like that. I felt like they were stealing more than just the object, but were stealing part of my night and really stole the big finish that the band did from me.
This got me thinking, what was going through the peoples heads who stole our stuff? That just seemed like the most selfish thing in the world to me. To steal something that had little physical value but a lot of emotional attatchment. What drives someone to do that? Is it pure selfishness?
Have you too been a victim of crime?
What do you think motivates people to steal? Do you think they feel guilty about it?
The big thing about the night was the experience the autographs were secondary. But still it really hurt that someone would steal our stuff like that. I felt like they were stealing more than just the object, but were stealing part of my night and really stole the big finish that the band did from me.
This got me thinking, what was going through the peoples heads who stole our stuff? That just seemed like the most selfish thing in the world to me. To steal something that had little physical value but a lot of emotional attatchment. What drives someone to do that? Is it pure selfishness?
Have you too been a victim of crime?
What do you think motivates people to steal? Do you think they feel guilty about it?
/sig
Rabid_Llama on
0
Posts
People steal because they're being thoughtless.
It happened on a Friday before I got home from work, so it was probably some kids who skipped school or just got out or something. The next couple of Fridays I arranged to work from home, hoping that they would come by again to grab the stuff they missed (they left in a hurry the first time after they noticed the motion detectors, even though they aren't hooked to an actual security system).
If I'd came across them while they were doing it, I would have killed them. And not metaphorically.
My buddy's X-box, some of my games from my room... mostly just easy to grab items.
I immediately called my roomie whom I knew might have borrowed these items- a long shot, he worked at a new/used game store. During the call, he asked me to go into his room and check a certain section of the floor. When I reported nothing there, he suddenly said, "I gotta go."
"Dude, we've been robbed! Are you going to call the cops or something right now?"
"Yeah- but the genuises who robbed us are here RIGHT NOW, trying to sell me my Sega Saturn collection."
He did call the cops, who told him to go ahead with the sale, and note the name/address/etc. They got the sellers on stolen property charges later. We got back the game stuff, but we lost a lot of other personal items, prescription sunglasses, a glass beer stien full of change, some movies.
Funny epilogue: I went with my girlfriend to a relaxation/meditation meeting later that month. She thought it would help me (she'd been trying to get me to go for months). After a while, I did feel relaxed enough to share the whole experience with the group.
After the meeting, we did the whole potluck deal, and this one German fellow came up to me and asked, "Do you feel violated?"
I said, "No, actually, I feel a bit better. Talking about it felt good." A bit weirded out about ze German dude, but good.
He said, "I meant your home being broken into. Do you feel violated?"
Heh.
The part that sucked worse was that when we all got new computers, me and one roommate got desktops. My other roommate already had one, and they hadn't bothered to steal it. So he got a new Macbook.
We got up new years day, went out that night, came back to find out we'd been broken into again, and his laptop was gone.
I didn't really sleep well for a while afterwards, but it actually made me feel kind of nice to know that my computer wasn't as giant a tether as I had thought, I got along fine without it for a few weeks.
So now I have a car alarm, a baseball bat at the ready, and pissed off nerd rage should the alarm go off.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I don't have a lot of expensive electronics . . . a TV that's five years old, a computer that's older, and a few game machines (SNES, PS2, Gamecube.) Still, I worry about being broken into. It's a scary thought, a stranger rifling through your belongings. And then too, if someone could break in to steal, they could also break in to rape. In addition, I've got indoor cats. . . If someone broke in I'm sure they would run to the bathroom cupboard and hide, no problem, but as soon as the thieves left they'd probably be all, "Look, a broken window--FREEEEEDOOOOM!" and jump out and get hit by a car.
I was also upset that although I pay a hefty fee to park at my school, they refuse to put up security cameras in the parking lots, and also the fact that the campus securities driving rounds are so predictable that someone could break into 4-5 cars unnoticed and get away. I guess I am also bitter about the fact that my insurance does not cover anything. As of today (5 months later) I still cannot afford to replace the window (let alone find a replacement to do on my own), and drive around with plexiglass keeping out the elements. Fuck you, thieves.
I live in Naperville, Illinois and in 2006 it was rated the 2nd best city to live in the U.S. by CNN Money. In 2007 it's not even listed in the top 100. Perhaps CNN Money heard about the break ins.
I've just reached the end of a process, earlier today, that started on Friday the 13th, in July, when some drunk teenager hit my parked car into the support beam of the covered parking structure, while I was off in Disneyland.
It took the police three weeks to finish their report so I could know whether or not I was screwed out of the three thousand dollars (about 6 weeks of my pay). Their investigations were apparently thwarted by uncooperative drunk teenagers (none of whom, to my knowledge, got in serious trouble for being drunk teenagers). So at the end of three weeks, all I got from the police?
The car was probably red, and they were turning left when they hit me.
Three WEEKS.
Supposedly they bragged about it afterwards, but the cops were successfully lied to or something, and fuck if anyone is going to be honest and give me their insurance information.
Drunken teenage hit and runs? 1, paid officers? 0, Incenjucar? +$3,000 in damages.
And the biggest crime? My insurance doesn't cover it.
So the only justice of any kind I can get now is ruining every damned party they ever throw around here.
Upon another occasion, we had someone steal these fairy heavy iron wagon wheels buried halfway that we were using as trellises for our garden. Wagon wheels.
God, I hated living there.
Some one tried to steal my gymbag out from under my arm once in Denver International Airport while I was taking a nap. He woke me up (the bag was under my arm). I yanked him into the seat next to me and put my arm around him and continued to snore. He was pretty uncomfortable when I let him go.
I host a podcast about movies.
You would have killed them? For stealing from you?
It's just stuff. I dunno, that attitude seems quite alien to me. If they were armed, sure, I'd defend myself. If they so much as threatened violence once, fine, no problem: they're hitting the floor.
But if they stole a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff? So they're asshole criminals, but that's suddenly worth killing them? Over 1,800 dollars? That's how much their life is worth to you?
Strange.
Unless you were waxing poetic. In which case nevermind.
I have the same gut reaction to a lot of harmful, but not immediately dangerous behavior, like torturing animals, or attacking with fists rather than weapons. I wouldn't actually seek to end life, but I embrace my father's philosophy here: hit them until they aren't getting up anymore.
Threat elimination in the heat of passion can't compare to thoughts of cold blood.
One other time really bugged me though - we'd gotten a tradesman in to fix the pantry door, and mum forgot to remove a small tin of cash from the pantry first, so he snaffled it. We didn't figure out what happened for a while, and my brother/I nearly got blamed before we figured out what must have happened. That really gave me the shits, because someone was in the kitchen with him the whole time he was there :x
I've had no troubles since I moved here, because its a secure apartment, but once or twice salespeople have snuck in behind a resident and gone door-knocking, and that really gives me the shits. If the building requires you to be buzzed in, you stay the fuck out unless you're specifically invited or you have a key.
Being mugged or the times when myself or my friends have been caught up in random violence have affected me much more. The feeling of "What should I have done differently" stays with me for weeks.
1) The driver had the car in reverse and we where pushing forward
2) I asked the passenger what was up with the driver and he responded simply with "Hes completely smashed"
So we finally push him out and because the dumb ass was going in reverse he smashed into my girl friends car. It didn't do too much damage, simply dented the front end and knocked out the driver side front headlight/turn signal, but what was really fucked up was the passenger immeaditly hopped into the car and they sped off. After I helped them out of the snow.
Joke was on them, I remembered his plate number for some stupid number game I was playing with my roommate. Still even with the plate number a description of the driver and the car took the cops 3 month to get them. Turn out the guy wasn't insured, was very drunk (appearently this info was given by one of the passangers), and had his license revoked for several speeding violations and drunk driving violations.
In that split second when they spead off, yeah I felt violated as hell. Espically after I helped them out.
My mom also had an escaped felon living with us for awhile. She stole a lot of stuff, but lucky she was just one of the crazy ones and not the smart ones, all she took was stuff to steal my moms identity so she could take over my moms failing business and have a family that she never had, didn't take anything expensive. And we got it all back.
Ours was open because we'd staggered in and pretty much just passed out. Fortunately, I'd put anything really valuable in the room's safe, so all I lost was the wallet itself with a couple of thousand pesetas (old school) and about $200 in AMEX traveller's cheques. I lost the money, got the cheques replaced (the whole reason I used to use the AMEX cheques is that they'll replace them anywhere in the world with in 24 hours) and found the empty wallet in some bushes the next day.
What did kind of freak me out was the fact that there had been someone moving around in the apartment while I was asleep, and been sufficiently close by that they lifted my wallet from the bedside table.
So one time we were all in philly to watch a show at the Trocadero, when my friend has the bright idea to try to buy weed off of this fairly obvious crackhead. Not surprisingly when the crackhead got into the car to give my friend the weed, he punched him in the face and shoved him out of the car. The crackhead then proceeded to speed down the road and out of sight with my friend's old ass Buick Century. No one ever saw the car again, and half of us were left with no way home. It was still pretty damn funny.
If you wake up, in the dark, with a guy in your house you don't know, are you going to interrogate him? Are you going to say, "Excuse me, are you just here for property? Because if so, I shan't trouble you. But if you're here for a more nefarious purpose, by thunder, today you take your dry toast in the Limbo appropriate to thy faith?"
You can only apply that argument backwards - had Doc been home, he wouldn't have known how much stuff they were going to take or what crime it is. Also, it's his goddamn house and driving someone out of their house and making them feel unsafe and making them wonder if they can defend their wife and kids should carry, if not the death penalty, then the severe goddamn beating penalty.
I host a podcast about movies.
A couple girls I knew in high school went for a trip through Italy over spring break one year and while they were asleep someone broke into their hotel room and stole all their expensive cameras and stuff. There were at least three of them in there, that theif had to have some serious balls. The girls really seemed to take it in stride though. I suppose that the theif could have done a lot worse to 3 or more sleeping american girls.
Edit: also, the thief you describe was 99% likely a hotel employee.
I host a podcast about movies.
I host a podcast about movies.
Well at least be satisfied in the fact that the person was probably such a loser, he had no one willing to sign his own yearbook.
A maid from a hotel once stole some money, I had hidden in one of my bags while I was off at a school robotics competition, which I only discovered after I came home.
Except Doc is talking about them coming back, a week later. So he in this situation would be pretty sure it's the same goddamned criminals. And he stayed in the house for what amounts to revenge. And he intended to kill them if they came back.
It's not like "oh shit, who the fuck is in my house, let me get my gun." It's "someone stole shit from me last week. Let me pretend I'm not home, waiting with my gun, so that if they come back I will shoot them in the head."
I host a podcast about movies.
Eh, the burglary in Cheshire Connecticut made me reconsider how I'd handle even a burglary.
What started as a burglary for those fuckers turned into an all night raping of an 11 year old, 3 dead, and arson.
Feel free to come into my house and burglarize it, but know that the price can be anywhere from FREE to DEAD. That's the risk you take.
I'm not going to trust a thief to just rob me.
I'm not going to trust God that if I let the guy go, he'll recognize how lucky he was and reform, not get worse and rape or kill someone later in life, because I will then find out about what I could have stopped, and be driven, by guilt, to dress up as an arthropod of some sort (The Lobster, I think) and fight crime.
When my flashlight comes on and I yell "stop I am armed you lame dickhead," you better say "Goddamnit I surrender" or "Oh shit I am a drunk guy and I walked into the wrong house"
if you struggle with me in my own home, or resist what I tell you to do when I caught you breaking in, I'm not going to play Stand By Me with you and get you to repent your choices.
And you better not drop my TV when you run, or you might get shot just for breaking shit.
(last sentence is a joke)
I host a podcast about movies.
I'm saying it's interesting how someone would shoot to kill over what amounts to material things, after the fact, in a premeditated way.
I'm not talking about shooting the fuck out of them the first time they're in your house. This is a situation where you very clearly have a burglar who wanted money. If I planned on encountering them again I would ask the police to help me plan the trap, because they are capable of getting a person into custody and I would not want them killed as penalty for attempting to steal my monitor or whatever the fuck.
Edit: also, this whole idea of "BUT YOU WOULD SHOOT SOMEONE OVER MONEY? YOU CANNOT OWN A TREE" comes from the idea that every single home defense is a covert doming.
You can use a gun to get someone out of your home, or to hold them for the police.
Also, of course people are willing to shoot other people for material things. Also, any theft of a material thing from your home involves the destruction of several intangibles as well - your security, your safety, the quality of your neighborhood and community...there is something other then money involved in a robbery.
I host a podcast about movies.
Friday morning my husband walked out the door to go to work. He went out to the SUV to make sure he had his laptop that he was going to use for a presentation first thing in the morning.
The backpack it was in (not obviously a laptop backpack), a big cooler out of the back (odd thing to steal, it was full of melted ice and leftover sodas & gatorade from a fishing trip, and doesn't seem to have been dumped first), and his leather jacket were all missing.
Oh, and the keys, he thinks he had left in the front seat the night before when he thought he was coming back out before bedtime.
Oh, and that key ring had a house key on it.
No fingerprints (duh, all they had to do was run a rag over everything they touched), the thing was unlocked, so no forced entry or anything. We're probably never going to find out who it was, unless they find the car that was stolen in the neighborhood the same night and our stuff happens to be in it.
On the plus side, there is no fucking way they're going to get any of the personal information that was on the thing unless they can get past a fingerprint login. :P
I host a podcast about movies.
I think it's quite clear what he meant. If, for some reason, he didn't mean "The next couple fridays I arranged to work from home, hoping to catch them in the act... If I came across them while they were doing it, I would have killed them" when he said "The next couple fridays I arranged to work from home, hoping to catch them in the act... If I came across them while they were doing it, I would have killed them," then by all means, I retract my statements.
Also, I have no problem with using a gun to get people out of your home or holding them for the police. And I have no problem with shooting someone if they're in your house and you don't know what the fuck is going on. I only have a problem with this idea of laying a trap for a known burglar because he stole some of your stuff, then killing him over the value of said stuff and the "violation" of your domicile's security. I do not see that as an appropriate punishment.
I mean we hire police, the military, they enforce the security of our borders, our homes, our communities, and they don't do it by asking nice.
But when I say, "Oh, no, I'm totally willing to personally deal with someone that attacks me or robs me" that's bad?
I'm supposed to go, "Oh, well, yeah, it's bad, but it's only STUFF. I'll only personally take up arms over life and limb, if its just stuff I leave it to the people the community hires to be violent on our behalf to kick his ass and take it back, in a long, laborious process that usually ends up shafting me anyway."
And remember, shooting the burglar wouldn't be any more (or less) legal if the person sat at home waiting for him then it would be if the timing was random - the right to dispatch the burglar legally is based on his actions in the home during each incident. You can't really shoot an unarmed man for putting your shit down and backing out of the house, for example.
Since this thread is supposed to be about the psychology of crime, does anyone feel a responsibility to stop the person when they see a crime going on?
Or is that, by modern consensus, something we leave to police?
I host a podcast about movies.
I've seen it suggested that one of the cornerstones of civilization is taking your right to violence and giving it to the authorities.
But I agree that the notion goes too far sometimes, and people refuse to learn to defend themselves and to take responsibility for themselves, making them wholly dependent on a system which simply cannot do everything.
Kinda missing the point. The police are trained and better able than I to subdue the criminal in a safe, non-lethal way. The whole point is they are less likely to kill him. That's why I would enlist their services.
But continue attacking the strawman, though. I think he's still got a little life left in him.
Well, i happen to be better trained to subdue a person then an average police officer (hypothetically)...should I then not call the police?
I host a podcast about movies.