Another new computer thread

Raslin

Alright guys, so, my dad wants to get a new computer. He plays some games, but mostly does graphics work(photoshop, modo, etc). He wants a powerful computer to do work at home as well, so I've been trying to set him up with one. Realize that it isn't exactly what I would choose, but he really wants some of these things(6 gigs ram, quad core). He isn't the greatest about computer parts, so if you guys could suggest a different build around the same price, that would be better for heavy graphics work, then I'd love to hear it.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/MySavedWishDetail.asp?BundleExist=N&ID=7119968

Kaputa

6 gigs of ram? I'm bad at keeping up to date with new computer things, but isn't that... a lot? I've got half a gig, which I realize isn't very good, but for some reason I didn't think anything above 2 gigs was really necessary.

Then again I rarely know what I'm talking about.

stranger678

Without a 64bit OS though, anything over 4 is a waste. 32bit OS can't address more then 4gig

Raslin

stranger678 wrote: »

Without a 64bit OS though, anything over 4 is a waste. 32bit OS can't address more then 4gig

It will be using 64bit Vista Home Premium.

Projeck

Is he really dead set on 6 gigs?

And what is the budget? I didn't see it/

Misanthropic

You need to make that wishlist public for us to see it.

And when does he need it? I ask because Penryn/Barcelona (new Core2Duos and AMD's offering, respectively) is right around the corner, so if he can wait a few months he'll get more bang for his buck. The current line of Core2Duos will also drop in price then, so there's that, too (though they are dirt cheap right now).

I could see 6 gigs of RAM using Vista, as long as he frequently works with massive files in Photoshop. Hardware websites have reported a 2 GB performance thresh-hold under Vista, but have also found a 4 GB thresh-hold, too. You wont see much (if any) performance going from 4 GB to 6 GB (as far as current games are concerned). This could change in the future, but as far as I can tell right now we're not really being limited by RAM size (over 4 GB in Vista, at least).

However, more to the point: you will see better performance spending the money you would have spent on 6 GB of sub-par RAM, on 4 GB of good, speedy RAM.

As far as video cards go, I would also wait, because we are on the trail end of this iteration of video cards.

When does he need/want the computer?

Also, always always always get a quality PSU. It is the most important part of any computer.

Raslin

I thought I did make it public. Its set as shared... Weird. Here's what I have:

(Links below correspond to parts)
Raidmax Smilidon 420w power supply
Asus P5N-E
8800GTX 768mb
Q6600
3x Patriot 2gb sticks DDR2 667
Seagate Barracuda 250gb
LG 18x DVD burner
Vista 64 bit home premium

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811156062

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131142

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814130072

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115017

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820220231

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822148261

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827136119

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16832116204



There really isn't a budget per-se, but my dad wants to keep it realistic. Lets say $1600 is the budget for shits and giggles, but anything lower is preferable. Also, he really doesn't game much; He played WoW for a while, but quit. He'll probably play whatever the next big MMO is for a bit, etc, but other than that, the computer is mainly going to be for heavy photoshop and modo use. And yes, he regularly opens huge ass photoshop files.

He ideally wants the computer very soon, though I could probably get him to wait a couple weeks... but thats about it.

Deusfaux

new proc gen stuff is NOT right around the corner. desktop products won't be out till like, December at the earliest, with realistic availability probably not until the next year

Misanthropic

Yeah, but when they are released this Fall you can at least get benchmarks and then decide if you want to wait or not.

That is, if you want to wait till at least then.

Marty81

I think you're going to need slightly better than a 420w power supply to run a quad core + 8800gtx. Don't skimp on the power supply. You're not going to need 750w like some people are probably going to recommend, but make sure you get a good brand with some solid +12v lines. The 8800gtx requires a +12 Volt current rating of 28 Amps.

gneGne

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 or Intel Q6600
Asus P5K-C
4 GB of DDR2 Ram
Asus GeForce 8600 GT
1 x Western Digital 750GB
LG Black 18x DVD burner
Antec LifeStyle Sonata III
NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2
Logitech Z-2300

1603$ in total

I doubt he needs such a huge-ass videocard for photoshop if he won't be playing the latest and greatest games on highest resolutions.
The most important part of a computer for photoshop is definately the monitor.
The amount of memory is not that important, if it's 2GB or more it should be good.
You could drop out the speakers I added and switch it for Vista Home Premium OEM. Perhaps save some money on the harddrive (it's 200$), although that harddrive is a really good deal.

FreddyD

Depending on the motherboard, you might take a big performance hit from not running the 3rd stick in dual channel.

I would find a another power supply brand. Antec, Enermax, and FSP are trusted brands.

I also think that setup is ridiculous overkill for someone who is going to be using it primarily for Photoshop.

Rook

FreddyD wrote: »

Depending on the motherboard, you might take a big performance hit from not running the 3rd stick in dual channel.

I would find a another power supply brand. Antec, Enermax, and FSP are trusted brands.

I also think that setup is ridiculous overkill for someone who is going to be using it primarily for Photoshop.

Sort of agree, particularly ram wise, I would be wary of sticking more than 4gb in a machine because of compatibility issues.

Seriously it needs a much bigger hard drive, with multiple drives being preferable for redundancy.

The_Scarab

Quad core and 6 gigs of ram is a collossal waste of money.

Misanthropic

The_Scarab wrote: »

Quad core and 6 gigs of ram is a collossal waste of money.

You obviously haven't worked with video.

Raslin

You guys don't seem to understand. I'm not talking about "Lets make some cute pictures of the kids in photoshop", I'm talking professional use. Opening multi-gig single files with huge resolutions and DPI. Trust me, an 8600GT won't nearly be enough for this thing. He won't need 750gigs of HD(He can delete older shit, or burn it to DVD, which he actually often prefers to keeping it on the HD).

He doesn't need anything other than what I put up(meaning he doesn't need speakers, mouse, keyboard, monitors, etc).

He needs a very powerful system. Don't worry about monitors, sound systems, etc. I just want to know if what I set up is the most powerful system for the money? I realize the case and PSU aren't great, but my dads current computer has one anyways that we might use, its worked very well for a while. The case was just to make a point(long story), but yeah. I'll probably push him there towards a Sonata III.

gneGne

Well Photoshop barely makes use of your graphicscard AFAIK.

Raslin

Yes, but he's also going to be working with 3d art, and rendering some very intensive models(stuff that takes an hour and a half to render at his work, etc). Doesn't the video card really come into play there?

FreddyD

Raslin wrote: »

Yes, but he's also going to be working with 3d art, and rendering some very intensive models(stuff that takes an hour and a half to render at his work, etc). Doesn't the video card really come into play there?

I think he will just be touching it up in Photoshop. All the actual rendering is done in programs like Maya or 3DMax.

Raslin

FreddyD wrote: »

Raslin wrote: »

Yes, but he's also going to be working with 3d art, and rendering some very intensive models(stuff that takes an hour and a half to render at his work, etc). Doesn't the video card really come into play there?

I think he will just be touching it up in Photoshop. All the actual rendering is done in programs like Maya or 3DMax.

I'm a 3d artist as well, with years of experience. He retouches images in photoshop, yes, but now his company also wants to learn to use modo, to model, texture, and render things.

happyshark

so why dont you go to a forum dedicated to 3d modeling and ask around there :?:

Migliori

Raslin wrote: »

You guys don't seem to understand. I'm not talking about "Lets make some cute pictures of the kids in photoshop", I'm talking professional use. Opening multi-gig single files with huge resolutions and DPI. Trust me, an 8600GT won't nearly be enough for this thing. He won't need 750gigs of HD(He can delete older shit, or burn it to DVD, which he actually often prefers to keeping it on the HD).

He doesn't need anything other than what I put up(meaning he doesn't need speakers, mouse, keyboard, monitors, etc).

He needs a very powerful system. Don't worry about monitors, sound systems, etc. I just want to know if what I set up is the most powerful system for the money? I realize the case and PSU aren't great, but my dads current computer has one anyways that we might use, its worked very well for a while. The case was just to make a point(long story), but yeah. I'll probably push him there towards a Sonata III.

How much money are we talking about? What else does he use other than modo on the 3D side?

In all likely hood (I don't know how well modo uses FireGL or Quadro cards), he will be better off with a Quadro graphics card, a 1500 or 3500 should be fine, than any consumer card. If the budget is large then a dual processor Xeon workstation will be far better.

You can PM me for further insight if this thread dies.

Raslin

happyshark wrote: »

so why dont you go to a forum dedicated to 3d modeling and ask around there :?:

>.>

I was just asking if anyone had suggestions on better parts in general. Maybe better mobo's for around the same price, things of that nature.

Raslin

Migliori wrote: »

Raslin wrote: »

You guys don't seem to understand. I'm not talking about "Lets make some cute pictures of the kids in photoshop", I'm talking professional use. Opening multi-gig single files with huge resolutions and DPI. Trust me, an 8600GT won't nearly be enough for this thing. He won't need 750gigs of HD(He can delete older shit, or burn it to DVD, which he actually often prefers to keeping it on the HD).

He doesn't need anything other than what I put up(meaning he doesn't need speakers, mouse, keyboard, monitors, etc).

He needs a very powerful system. Don't worry about monitors, sound systems, etc. I just want to know if what I set up is the most powerful system for the money? I realize the case and PSU aren't great, but my dads current computer has one anyways that we might use, its worked very well for a while. The case was just to make a point(long story), but yeah. I'll probably push him there towards a Sonata III.

How much money are we talking about? What else does he use other than modo on the 3D side?

In all likely hood (I don't know how well modo uses FireGL or Quadro cards), he will be better off with a Quadro graphics card, a 1500 or 3500 should be fine, than any consumer card. If the budget is large then a dual processor Xeon workstation will be far better.

You can PM me for further insight if this thread dies.

Around $1600 dollars. He won't be using anything other than Modo on the 3d side. Also, you lost me on those video cards... I didn't think there was much difference between those 'workstation' cards and mainstream cards.

FreddyD

Raslin wrote: »

Migliori wrote: »

Raslin wrote: »

You guys don't seem to understand. I'm not talking about "Lets make some cute pictures of the kids in photoshop", I'm talking professional use. Opening multi-gig single files with huge resolutions and DPI. Trust me, an 8600GT won't nearly be enough for this thing. He won't need 750gigs of HD(He can delete older shit, or burn it to DVD, which he actually often prefers to keeping it on the HD).

He doesn't need anything other than what I put up(meaning he doesn't need speakers, mouse, keyboard, monitors, etc).

He needs a very powerful system. Don't worry about monitors, sound systems, etc. I just want to know if what I set up is the most powerful system for the money? I realize the case and PSU aren't great, but my dads current computer has one anyways that we might use, its worked very well for a while. The case was just to make a point(long story), but yeah. I'll probably push him there towards a Sonata III.

How much money are we talking about? What else does he use other than modo on the 3D side?

In all likely hood (I don't know how well modo uses FireGL or Quadro cards), he will be better off with a Quadro graphics card, a 1500 or 3500 should be fine, than any consumer card. If the budget is large then a dual processor Xeon workstation will be far better.

You can PM me for further insight if this thread dies.

Around $1600 dollars. He won't be using anything other than Modo on the 3d side. Also, you lost me on those video cards... I didn't think there was much difference between those 'workstation' cards and mainstream cards.

There isn't any difference if you use custom firmware.

Migliori

Raslin wrote: »

Migliori wrote: »

Raslin wrote: »

You guys don't seem to understand. I'm not talking about "Lets make some cute pictures of the kids in photoshop", I'm talking professional use. Opening multi-gig single files with huge resolutions and DPI. Trust me, an 8600GT won't nearly be enough for this thing. He won't need 750gigs of HD(He can delete older shit, or burn it to DVD, which he actually often prefers to keeping it on the HD).

He doesn't need anything other than what I put up(meaning he doesn't need speakers, mouse, keyboard, monitors, etc).

He needs a very powerful system. Don't worry about monitors, sound systems, etc. I just want to know if what I set up is the most powerful system for the money? I realize the case and PSU aren't great, but my dads current computer has one anyways that we might use, its worked very well for a while. The case was just to make a point(long story), but yeah. I'll probably push him there towards a Sonata III.

How much money are we talking about? What else does he use other than modo on the 3D side?

In all likely hood (I don't know how well modo uses FireGL or Quadro cards), he will be better off with a Quadro graphics card, a 1500 or 3500 should be fine, than any consumer card. If the budget is large then a dual processor Xeon workstation will be far better.

You can PM me for further insight if this thread dies.

Around $1600 dollars. He won't be using anything other than Modo on the 3d side. Also, you lost me on those video cards... I didn't think there was much difference between those 'workstation' cards and mainstream cards.

With OpenGL they can offer massive (2-5 times) performance increases even when the hardware is almost identical due to the drivers they use. It depends on the application though, things like Maya really take advantage of them.

You are probably going to need look at getting a newer power supply depending on how recently you got it, or more importantly how much power it has. Intel are actually comming out with a new workstation chipset that would probably be ideal for your father "soon". I think for $1600 you should be able to meet your requirements, I'll give you a good build when I get a chance in a few hours.

FreddyD wrote: »

There isn't any difference if you use custom firmware.

PCI-E Quadros don't support soft modding anymore.

Raslin

Migliori wrote: »

Raslin wrote: »

Migliori wrote: »

Raslin wrote: »

You guys don't seem to understand. I'm not talking about "Lets make some cute pictures of the kids in photoshop", I'm talking professional use. Opening multi-gig single files with huge resolutions and DPI. Trust me, an 8600GT won't nearly be enough for this thing. He won't need 750gigs of HD(He can delete older shit, or burn it to DVD, which he actually often prefers to keeping it on the HD).

He doesn't need anything other than what I put up(meaning he doesn't need speakers, mouse, keyboard, monitors, etc).

He needs a very powerful system. Don't worry about monitors, sound systems, etc. I just want to know if what I set up is the most powerful system for the money? I realize the case and PSU aren't great, but my dads current computer has one anyways that we might use, its worked very well for a while. The case was just to make a point(long story), but yeah. I'll probably push him there towards a Sonata III.

How much money are we talking about? What else does he use other than modo on the 3D side?

In all likely hood (I don't know how well modo uses FireGL or Quadro cards), he will be better off with a Quadro graphics card, a 1500 or 3500 should be fine, than any consumer card. If the budget is large then a dual processor Xeon workstation will be far better.

You can PM me for further insight if this thread dies.

Around $1600 dollars. He won't be using anything other than Modo on the 3d side. Also, you lost me on those video cards... I didn't think there was much difference between those 'workstation' cards and mainstream cards.

With OpenGL they can offer massive (2-5 times) performance increases even when the hardware is almost identical due to the drivers they use. It depends on the application though, things like Maya really take advantage of them.

You are probably going to need look at getting a newer power supply depending on how recently you got it, or more importantly how much power it has. Intel are actually comming out with a new workstation chipset that would probably be ideal for your father "soon". I think for $1600 you should be able to meet your requirements, I'll give you a good build when I get a chance in a few hours.

FreddyD wrote: »

There isn't any difference if you use custom firmware.

PCI-E Quadros don't support soft modding anymore.

Yeah, I can't really do 'soon'. He wants to order the parts tomorrow

He also pretty much wants to go for the 8800, just incase he ends up finding games he wants to play.

Migliori

Raslin wrote: »

Yeah, I can't really do 'soon'. He wants to order the parts tomorrow

He also pretty much wants to go for the 8800, just incase he ends up finding games he wants to play.

If he gets the 8800GTX I'd reccomend you look at a 500W PSU minimum, you may be all right with 450W though if that is what you already have. He is probably going to get good performance from modo with an 8800 series card as long as he isn't doing anything really heavy, an 8800GTS would be fine and save you money which could be put to better use; perhaps towards a P35 motherboard (Look at the Abit IP 35 Pro or regular).

I'm not sure how having 3 sticks of ram will perform compared to having 4 or 2, I don't know if it gives you dual channel on two and single on the other or single on all 3. You might want to consider 8GB or 4GB or 2x2 and 2 x1. I don't know how Patriot RAM is, I'm sure it's fine but in such a system I would look at other memory than the cheapest you find. G.Skill, Corsair, kingston, Crucial and OCZ all sell great memory.

I would skip on that hard drive too, find one with 16mb cache, and maybe consider 320GB as they are very cheap. Seagate also don't have acoustic dampening on them anymore meaning for some they can be annoying audible compared to western digital or samsung.

edit: Also when seeing what sort of FPS you'd get from various GPUs under modo, I noticed that there were posts from the end of July talking about issues with modo on vista and using 8800GTXs, might want to look in to that.