To Boycott or Not To Boycott?

Profs

So, I was reading some thread in G&T where someone was invariably bitching about shitty customer service at EbStop, and proceeded to announce he was boycotting the company. I immediately applauded him for his decision, but as I thought more about it, I wondered, what difference does it really make anyways? Unfortunately, the company will continue to have massive profits because its business model is so shrewd, and so they have no reason to give a shit about said up-in-arms customer. Does he believe that by refusing to give this company money that he is weakening it, thus giving incentive for the company to change its ways? Does boycotting just make him feel better, i.e. standing up to the man? Is the service just so shitty that he doesn't want to deal with it anymore?

And thus, that is my question to any of you who read this thread. If and when you boycott a brand, company, product (etc.), do you believe you are actively working to bring about a change? Is it simply a personal statement to yourself and others? Boycotting usually isn't for trivial reasons like customer service, so a personal distasteful experience is not a common reason.

Is it really just symbolic, or are you convinced its really affecting something?

Incenjucar

It will have whatever amount of effect his spending has on the company.

I, personally, vote with my wallet as well, but it's mostly a matter of principal unless you actually try to get other people to do the same.

moniker

An individual boycott isn't really a boycott it's just you driving down the street to Target instead of Wal~Mart for the same shit with a different name. (although Target does have less of a hegemonic control than Wally world) Feel free to go ahead and do it, but don't expect any change to happen as a result.

Hirocon

You won't actually change anything about the company unless many, many other people also boycott the company for the same reasons. However, if you boycott a company because of shitty service, then you are having a positive impact on your own life even if the company never changes: you personally are avoiding their shitty service. And that alone is enough justification to boycott some companies.

Blake T

A boycott does work. It just needs more than one person.

Boycotts would be far more effective if when people recieved unsatisfory service they refused to shop there. Most people however are more than happy to coppy shitty service for service they percieve as well priced.

Incenjucar

Really everyone boycotts things one way or another just by not shopping there.

The biggest barrier to it not working is that many people just don't have the same principles you do, or have other priorities.

Wash

Whenever I've observed a company provide consistently poor services or products I'll stop going to them with my money. As far as actively boycotting a place, it seems like a lot of energy over a company you don't like. Unless you manage to rally a large number of people to your cause, maybe get some media attention, and really make it known how shitty the company is, you're not accomplishing anything. And even if you do manage to do that, you've just used a lot of time and money you could've put towards something else. Where's the gain in that?

Ketherial

saying a boycott doesnt work is kind of like saying voting doesnt work.

Hacksaw

Ketherial wrote: »

saying a boycott doesnt work is kind of like saying voting doesnt work.

To an extent, both are true. On an individual level neither work. One vote makes about as much a difference as one person boycotting. But a thousand votes--just like a thousand people boycotting--can make a difference.

EDIT: Of course if those thousand people were never going to shop at EbStop anyways, they won't make a bit of difference.

Argus

Ketherial wrote: »

saying a boycott doesnt work is kind of like saying voting doesnt work.

Hello, electoral college...

Wikipedia wrote:

The system can ignore the wishes of a general membership whose thinking may not be considered. When applied on a national scale, such as the election of a country's leader, the popular vote can on occasion run counter to the electoral college's vote, and for this reason there are some who feel that the system is a distortion of true democracy in a democratic society.

ViolentChemistry

Ketherial wrote: »

saying a boycotting EBstop doesnt work is kind of like saying voting for Nader doesnt work.

Editted for correctitude.

Unknown

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Fallingman

electricitylikesme wrote: »

Ketherial wrote: »

saying a boycott doesnt work is kind of like saying voting doesnt work.

It fails for roughly the same reason though.

It might not have immediate gratification - but thats different form it not working. These forces are alive and well in small business - it just works on a different scale with the big boys.

Unknown

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Solvent

Well... Individually, no, it probably won't make a huge difference if you're the only one doing the boycotting.

The way I see it though, it doesn't have to be a question of whether you'll kill the company or not, it's whether you're pissed off enough that you don't want to give them money. And if you don't want to give them money and will be happier not doing so, then by all means don't give the bastards money.

The way I have thought for some time in situations like this is related to the old cynical sentiment that one person can't make a difference - now I'm considered a cynic by many, including myself most of the time, but consider this:

The only differences in the world have an origin somewhere. One person started the chain of events that caused a revolution. One person mobilised others, one person planted an idea in the minds of others. You can't distinguish it most of the time, but everything starts somewhere. Saying that one person doesn't make a difference is absurd. In my mind, the only difference you'll ever be able to make is the difference of one person. You are only one person, and nothing you do changes that. (insert list of famous people here) were all just one person. So in any endeavor you ever undertake, you're only going to make the difference one person makes, it's just your choice of whether or not to do it.

Oh, and not saying that you need to cause some chain of events to make a difference. What you do is the difference of one person whether it causes huge ripples or not. The whole effect is then decided by others, who are, after all, acting independently.




...well, it's all clear in my head anyway.

Benbo

Personal boycotts will do very little to affect the business of a company. But in my view, that's not really the point in them. A boycott allows you to no longer be responsible for supporting something you disagree with.

It's like someone deciding not to eat meat/wear fur etc. It's not going to stop people killing animals, but that person is no longer responsible for endorsing said actions.

So if you don' t want to financially reward bad service/poor ethics, then a boycott serves that purpose.

Just so happens that when a lot of people feel the same way as you, stuff tends to change, but it's more of a side-effect than a reason, if that makes sense.

BubbaT

Benbo wrote: »

Personal boycotts will do very little to affect the business of a company. But in my view, that's not really the point in them. A boycott allows you to no longer be responsible for supporting something you disagree with.

It's like someone deciding not to eat meat/wear fur etc. It's not going to stop people killing animals, but that person is no longer responsible for endorsing said actions.

So if you don' t want to financially reward bad service/poor ethics, then a boycott serves that purpose.

Exactly. It's not like EB/GameStop has a monopoly on selling video games. Why would you choose to help a company that pisses you off when there are likely several other companies selling the same product that don't piss you off?


EB/GS prices suck anyways. Even if they don't piss you off, not shopping there is smart shopping.

Murago

BubbaT wrote: »

EB/GS prices suck anyways. Even if they don't piss you off, not shopping there is smart shopping.

I dunno man, i picked up some controllers, a memory card and a game for less than 30 bucks. Used sure, but it works the same.

BubbaT

Murago wrote: »

BubbaT wrote: »

EB/GS prices suck anyways. Even if they don't piss you off, not shopping there is smart shopping.

I dunno man, i picked up some controllers, a memory card and a game for less than 30 bucks. Used sure, but it works the same.

You can occassionally catch them in something. Last April they were running a "Trade in 2 used Wii games, get a new Wii game" promotion at the same time Best Buy had Open Season and FarCry for $15 each. Essentially it was a "visit Best Buy and get Paper Mario for $30" deal.

Those instances are pretty few and far between, though. Most of the time it's strictly MSRP on new stuff, and at or above web prices on used.

FirstComradeStalin

Let's think about the Chinese toy recalls that are happening now, though. Because of this, plenty of people are boycotting foreign-made products this holiday season. That spells a massive economic loss for these foreign manufacturers, and will probably lead to stricter manufacturing regulations in China.

If it's a wide-ranging issue that causes your boycott, you can pretty much be guaranteed that others will follow, and your collective voice will be heard. But if you boycott because you don't like the way the cashier talked to you, then you'll more than likely be ineffective.

Doc

"Boycott" is too strong a term "Not shopping there because they suck" is more accurate.

AngelHedgie

FirstComradeStalin wrote: »

Let's think about the Chinese toy recalls that are happening now, though. Because of this, plenty of people are boycotting foreign-made products this holiday season. That spells a massive economic loss for these foreign manufacturers, and will probably lead to stricter manufacturing regulations in China.

But will it lead to more corrupt officials getting executed?

Feral

It also doesn't hurt to communicate to the company in question.

I have, on rare occasion, called up the corporate headquarters to a chain store if I got really, really bad service at one of their locations. Usually I do this out of my own self-interest - if I'm shopping at a Gamestop, it's probably because the Gamestop is closer, has a better selection or better prices. If I feel uncomfortable going there because one of the register monkeys pissed on my shoe and called me a fishmonger, that inconveniences me because now I have to go an extra couple of miles to the next store. So I'd rather Gamestop clean up their act and make sure the rude wanker gets fired.

And if they happen to send me a free $20 gift certificate in the mail, that's just a nice bonus.

Doc

AngelHedgie wrote: »

FirstComradeStalin wrote: »

Let's think about the Chinese toy recalls that are happening now, though. Because of this, plenty of people are boycotting foreign-made products this holiday season. That spells a massive economic loss for these foreign manufacturers, and will probably lead to stricter manufacturing regulations in China.

But will it lead to more corrupt officials getting executed?

It's possible. They also off themselves occasionally.

Irond Will

It used to be that word-of-mouth advertising (or word-of-mouth criticism) was considered incredibly important for the health of businesses and they'd go to some lengths to address customers' concerns. I'm not so sure if it's still a big deal to large businesses who centrally advertise via mass-media.

redx

I consider boycotting, which I do, voting with my dollars.

Just like voting with a ballot, one vote does not make much of a diffrence. One vote means next to nothing, if I cared more, I'd actively encourage others to vote the way I do, but I don't. So, I take a little solace in the fact that I don't support things and people I find evil, but don't expect change as a result of my actions.

I don't shop at wallmart, but only because I find the experience depressing and degrading.

AtomBomb

There are lots of places that I refuse to go, and things that I refuse to do. I don't think it makes much difference to anyone but me. Sometimes my actions do ripple out to other people though. My wife and I are vegan, so when we go out to eat it's at a place that has vegan options or is only vegetarian/vegan. We've gone with her parents, and they've found that they like some of these places (which they would have never visited on their own) and they've gone back without us. If they go there instead of Bob's House of Pot Roast then I guess that has a small impact. They then take their friends, etc.

You not spending money somewhere usually doesn't make a difference. However, I have worked for places that sold over $100,000 of stuff per month that missed sales goals by less than $300. Odds of that being your $300 are pretty low though. Also, even if you do "boycott" a store, they don't know you're boycotting it. If they realize that you haven't been by in awhile (like if you're a regular customer), if they don't know why it doesn't change anything. If you write a letter it may cause huge changes, or it may never be read, depending on the company.

I'll boycott places that have given me shitty service or products, or that have policies/practices that I don't agree with. It's more for my own peace of mind than anything else. If I think someone has fucked me over, yet I keep going back there and taking more of it I feel like it's now my fault too.

Yar

A young man, frustrated and in denial over his relative lack of power over reality, declares a dramatic but immature gesture. Just like so many before him.

Fucking christ. Boycott.

You don't "boycott" a company because you're unhappy with the service you got. Boycotts are a political movement on political grounds.

And there's nothing wrong with EB's model, it's a niche that keeps them profitable where they would otherwise get fucking steamrolled by Wal*mart and Target. And those stores, perhaps ironically, have shittier customer service and a whole slew of political demons that might warrant a good ol' boycott.

Incenjucar

Boycott's just a useful shorthand term to express the sentiment. It's really just voting with your wallet, but that sounds about as cheezy. Let's not make this about semantics, eh?

Yar

No, it isn't "voting with your wallet."

A boycott is an organized, large-scale political movement against a company for political/moral reasons. Voting with your wallet is just you deciding to shop somewhere else, often for business reasons but perhaps for poltical/moral reasons.

Incenjucar

Yar.

I meant that the topic of this thread is voting with your wallet. Not that it was boycotting. I know words, dammit.

Profs

AtomBomb wrote: »

There are lots of places that I refuse to go, and things that I refuse to do. I don't think it makes much difference to anyone but me. Sometimes my actions do ripple out to other people though. My wife and I are vegan, so when we go out to eat it's at a place that has vegan options or is only vegetarian/vegan. We've gone with her parents, and they've found that they like some of these places (which they would have never visited on their own) and they've gone back without us. If they go there instead of Bob's House of Pot Roast then I guess that has a small impact. They then take their friends, etc.

You not spending money somewhere usually doesn't make a difference. However, I have worked for places that sold over $100,000 of stuff per month that missed sales goals by less than $300. Odds of that being your $300 are pretty low though. Also, even if you do "boycott" a store, they don't know you're boycotting it. If they realize that you haven't been by in awhile (like if you're a regular customer), if they don't know why it doesn't change anything. If you write a letter it may cause huge changes, or it may never be read, depending on the company.

I'll boycott places that have given me shitty service or products, or that have policies/practices that I don't agree with. It's more for my own peace of mind than anything else. If I think someone has fucked me over, yet I keep going back there and taking more of it I feel like it's now my fault too.

Quot'd for truth. For a "boycott" (we're using shorthand here, let's not argue semantics) to be successful, the company in question has to be aware of the reason they're not getting your money. I don't even think it would require mass organization or anything, just people willing to write a letter or make a phone call to higher ups in said company and voice their disagreement.

However, I think it also depends on your intentions. Do you want the company to just die? Then anonymity (sp?) serves just fine. But for a real change in a company's policies, there has to be communication.

Elki

I'm with The Yar.

japan

Yar wrote: »

No, it isn't "voting with your wallet."

A boycott is an organized, large-scale political movement against a company for political/moral reasons. Voting with your wallet is just you deciding to shop somewhere else, often for business reasons but perhaps for poltical/moral reasons.

Quite.

I try to avoid anything made by Nestle, which is harder than it sounds. Spoilered list of Nestle brands:

Coffee
Bonka
Dolca (Argentina)
Ecco (Peru) (Chile)
El Chana (Uruguay)
International Roast
Kirma (Peru)
Loumidis
Nescafé
Nespresso
Partner's Blend
Ricoffy
Ricoré
Taster's Choice
Zoégas

Water
Aberfoyle
Aqua D'Or
Acqua Panna
Al Manhal
Aquapod
Arrowhead
Contrex
Deer Park
Hépar
Ice Mountain
Korpi
Levissima
Nałęczowianka
Nestlé Aquarel
Nestlé Vera
Ozarka
Perrier
Poland Spring
Powwow
Pure Life/Pureza Vital
Quézac
San Pellegrino
San Bernardo
Viladrau
Vittel
Zephyrhills

Other drinks
Milo
Carnation
Caro
Chocolate D'Onofrio (Peru)
Cocoa D'Onofrio (Peru)
Libby’s
Nescao (Argentina)
Nescau (Brazil)
Nesquik
Nestea

Shelf staple
Christie
Bear Brand
Carnation
Coffee-Mate
Gloria
Ideal (Peru)
Klim
La Lechera
Milkmaid
Moça
Molico (now Svelty)
Nespray
Nestlé
Nestlé Omega Plus
Nido
Ninho
Svelty
Emswiss

Chilled
Chiquitin
La Laitière
La Lechera
Leite Moça
LC1
Molico (now Svelty)
Nestlé
Ski
Sveltesse
Svelty
Yoco

Ice cream
Ã…husglass (Sweden)
Camy
Chips Ahoy! (Canada)
Diplom-Is (Norway)
D'Onofrio (Peru)
Dreyer's
Frigor (Argentina)
Frisco
Häagen-Dazs (North America)
Hemglass (Sweden)
Hjem-IS (Denmark & Norway)
Kotijäätelö (Finland)
Maxibon
Motta
Mövenpick
Mivvi
Nestlé
Oreo (Canada)
Peter's
Push-Up
Savory (Chile)
Schöller
Underground is Denmark
Valiojäätelö (Finland)
Yopa (Brazil)

Infant foods
Alfare
Beba
Bona (Finland)
Cérélac
FM 85
Gerber
Good Start
Guigoz
Lactogen
Nan
NAN HA
NanSoy
Neslac
Nestlé
Nestogen
Nestum
Piltti (Finland)
Pirkka/Napero (Finland)
PreNan

Performance nutrition
Musashi
Neston
Nesvita
PowerBar
Pria
Supligen

Healthcare nutrition
Modulen
Nutren
Nutren Junior
Peptamen
Peptamen UTI
Jenny Craig
Novartis

Seasonings
Buitoni
Maggi
Thomy
Winiary

Frozen foods
Maggi
Stouffer’s
Lean Cuisine
Buitoni
Hot Pockets
Lean Pockets
Papa Guiseppi

Refrigerated products
Buitoni
Herta
Nestlé
Toll House

Chocolate, confectionery and baked goods
Peppermint Crisp.
100 Grand Bar
Aero
After Eight
Allens
Baby Ruth
Bertie Beetle (Australia)
Blue Riband
Breakaway
Butterfinger
Butterfinger BB's
Butterfinger Crisp
Bon Pari (Czech Republic, Poland and Hungary)
Cailler
Capri (Chile)
Caramac
Carlos V
Charge (Brazil)
Chokito (Brazil)
Coffee Crisp (Canada)
D'Onofrio (Peru)
Damak (Turkey)
Drifter
Frigor
Galak/Milkybar
Heaven
JOJO (Czech Republic and Poland)
Kit Kat
Lion
Matchmakers
Minties (Australia)
Mirage
Joff
Munchies
Negrita (Chile)
Nestlé Crunch
Nestlé Crunch Pieces
Nestlé Milk Chocolate
Nestlé Wonder Ball
Nestlé Yes (Germany)
Nips
Oh Henry (except Canada)
Peppermint Crisp
Perugina Baci
Polo
Prestigio (Chile,Brazil)
Quality Street
Rolo
Sahne Nuss (Chile)
Sensação (Brazil)
Smarties
Sufflair (Brazil)
Super 8 (Chile)
Susy (Venezuela)
Texan Bar
Toffee Crisp
Toll House
Trencito (Chile)
Orion (chocolate) (Czech Republic)
Violet Crumble
Yorkie

Wonka confectionery brands
Bottle Caps
Donutz
FruiTart Chews
Fun Dip
Gobstoppers
Laffy Taffy
Lik-M-Aid
Nerds
Nerds Gumballs
Nerds Rope
Oompas
Pixy Stix
Rainbow Nerds
Runts
SweeTarts
SweeTarts Rope
SweeTarts Shockers
Tart 'n' Tinys
Wonka Bars
Thrills

Foodservice products
Chef-Mate
Davigel
Minor's
Santa Rica

Petcare
Alpo
Beneful
Dog Chow
Fancy Feast
Felix
Friskies
Go Cat
Gourmet
Mighty Dog
Mon Petit
ONE
Pro Plan
Purina
Tidy Cats

Incenjucar

Bwah? What did Nestle do?

It's hard enough dodging all the Big Tobacco-owned companies. :P

japan

Sorry to keep quoting wiki, but:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestlé_boycott

Essentially, they kill babies.

That's overdramatic. They market formula milk in developing countries in a way that suggests it's better for the child than breast milk (hint: it's not). On top of that, people living in poverty-stricken areas often don't have access to clean water, so they mix up the formula with dirty water which often leads to the child getting very sick. Plus, the very poor often over-dilute the formula to make it last longer, leading to malnutrition.

The really insidious part is that most babies, once they've been weaned onto formula milk, won't go back to the breast, so people are stuck feeding overdiluted formula made with dirty water to their children.

fjafjan

I just avoid Chiquita (I can't spell it..) since they arm local guerrilas that keep the banana workers from organizing (in a bloody fashion). Fuck. Them.

Incenjucar

They really need to make a list of companies that are NOT assholes.

It will be the shortest list ever.

Unknown

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Linden

electricitylikesme wrote: »

It's going to turn out that Google funds terrorism. Callin' it now.

In some obscure way, it's probably arguable. It would be a stupid argument, but I think it could be done.

VoodooV

you never hear about the boycotts that are really serious like the nestle one referenced earlier. You typically only hear about the snotty customers who scream boycott in a huff at the slightest inconvenience.

So I think it's understandable that people are cynical when it comes to the idea of a boycott.