Looking over the list, Bioshock really has no place on there. Aside from changing the setting, Bioshock didn't do anything SS2 hadn't already done, and that place can be used for a much better entry, I'm sure.
SOTC was interesting because I hated it for maybe 95% of the game and then upon finishing it was convinced that it was mankind's single greatest achievement.
Chronicles Of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay.
Which is great for 2 reasons A) It's based off a Vin Diesel movie yet it's still great. It has the best first person hand to hand combat I've ever seen in a game.
Agreed completely. It's a the (only) example of a successful movie --> game transition.
Goldeneye disagrees with you there. One of the first games to have stealth elements, and completely amazing multiplayer. Single player isn't bad either.
Blast, forgot about that one. Goldeneye was indeed a great movie and a great game, but I should have said that the Riddick movies are horrible yet the game was amazing. The subsequent Bond games have also been horrible.
Well, here is few interesting adventure games that should belong to the list (IMO, of course). Longer descriptions for more obscure games.
7th Guest, the: One of the first games released only on CD, and first to use real actors, this FMV puzzle game is surprisingly good.
Alone in the Dark: First original survival horror video game that wasn't based on licensed property. Forefather of the genre, and inspiration for many games. Has spawned five sequels so far.
Bad Mojo: Beautiful and artistic, this game puts into role of Roger Samms, an entomologist planning to embezzle money from a research grant to escape his sordid life above an abandoned bar. Something really, really bad happens and Roger wakes up as a cockroach. Surreal and unique experience.
Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars: Game that defined late 90's adventure game together with Grim Fandango.
I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream: Based on Harlan Ellison's novel of same name, this game puts you into role of world's five last humans that are imprisoned by AIM, insane supercomputer who has destroyed humanity. AIM has played sadistic games with each of the character for last 100 years, and now it gives each character gain his/her freedom, by taking part in "fun" games. Buggy, and in some places little unfair, it is one of the more mature and surreal adventure games ever released. Harlan Ellison's role as a insane supercomputer AIM is one of the best heard in videogames.
King's Quest: Not really that good game, but its historical signifance is huge. It was first commercially successful graphical adventure game.
Last Express, The: Suspected of irish police's murder, Robert Cath boards Orient Express to escape his fate. Unfortunately, he gets involved into shitstorm of political scheming, treachery, lies and romance. What makes game so fascinating (and infuriating at same time) is that everything literally happens in real time. For example, thirty minutes in real life translate into thirty minutes in game. Completely non-linear, every players decision affects what ending he gets. Game's music was composed, orchestrated and conducted by Czech composer Elia Cmiral, who later composed the scores for Ronin and Stigmata. Available at Gametap, BTW.
Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards: Historically significant as first "naughty" game to gain real commercial success and mainstream appeal. Great game too.
Maniac Mansion: Lucasarts's first foray into world of adventure games, and great attempt at that. Introduces SCUMM, Lucasarts fabulous adventure game engine.
Maniac Mansion: Day of the Tentacle: Doesn't do anything new, but goddamn it is funny and well-designed game.
Quest for Glory IV: Shadows of Darkness: Doesn't do anything new, but has great atmosphere, and easily best game in the series.
Quest for Glory: So You Want to be a Hero: First point'n click adventure game with RPG elements.
Simon the Sorcerer II: The Lion, the Wizard and the Wardrobe: Funny, and one of the better adventure games of late 90s.
Spycraft: the Great Game: Spycraft was experimental FMV adventure game from middle of 90s. You take role of CIA agent Thorn, whose mission is to solve who is behind murder of russian presidential candidate. Although the game was not approved by CIA, it tends to favour realism due to its coordination with former CIA director William Colby and former KGB Major-General Oleg Kalugin. Fascinating techno-triller that is seriously underappreciated.
Looking over the list, Bioshock really has no place on there. Aside from changing the setting, Bioshock didn't do anything SS2 hadn't already done, and that place can be used for a much better entry, I'm sure.
Just because it wasn't as innovative as its a previous game in the series (spiritually, or whatever) doesn't mean it's any less of a game. I think it's something every gamer should experience.
Looking over the list, Bioshock really has no place on there. Aside from changing the setting, Bioshock didn't do anything SS2 hadn't already done, and that place can be used for a much better entry, I'm sure.
Just because it wasn't as innovative as its a previous game in the series (spiritually, or whatever) doesn't mean it's any less of a game. I think it's something every gamer should experience.
I don't think it's less of a game, but I think that SS2 serves its role on the list better, and we should reserve that slot for something else. It's all about representation, and having Bioshock and SS2 on the list is just redundant.
Wonder_Hippie on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Lemmings. When was the first Lemmings game? I remember playing it on the first PC I ever built when I was something like 10, but that was back in '91, I think.
Regardless of when it was, it still needs to be on there.
Looking over the list, Bioshock really has no place on there. Aside from changing the setting, Bioshock didn't do anything SS2 hadn't already done, and that place can be used for a much better entry, I'm sure.
Just because it wasn't as innovative as its a previous game in the series (spiritually, or whatever) doesn't mean it's any less of a game. I think it's something every gamer should experience.
I don't think it's less of a game, but I think that SS2 serves its role on the list better, and we should reserve that slot for something else. It's all about representation, and having Bioshock and SS2 on the list is just redundant.
Should there also be one Zelda game, on Mario game, etc.? I really don't think so, not on a list that's games to play before you die. Hell, I think you could throw on EVERY Metal Gear game, EVERY Metroid game, etc.
Looking over the list, Bioshock really has no place on there. Aside from changing the setting, Bioshock didn't do anything SS2 hadn't already done, and that place can be used for a much better entry, I'm sure.
Just because it wasn't as innovative as its a previous game in the series (spiritually, or whatever) doesn't mean it's any less of a game. I think it's something every gamer should experience.
I don't think it's less of a game, but I think that SS2 serves its role on the list better, and we should reserve that slot for something else. It's all about representation, and having Bioshock and SS2 on the list is just redundant.
Should there also be one Zelda game, on Mario game, etc.? I really don't think so, not on a list that's games to play before you die. Hell, I think you could throw on EVERY Metal Gear game, EVERY Metroid game, etc.
Well, the thing is, Super Mario Bros. is distinctly different from Mario Bros. Also, Mario 64 is distinctly different either of those. My point is that Bioshock isn't distinctly different in any way other than setting from SS2, and the story alone doesn't warrant an inclusion.
Besides, I'd never throw in every Metroid game. Fusion? Nah, doesn't necessarily deserve a spot. Maybe Zero Mission, because you get the idea of the 2D Metroids enough. I also wouldn't include any of the Prime games, but that's because I can't stand the control.
Also, Snake's Revenge was better than Metal Gear, so that'd get a spot. MGS3 would beat out MGS or MGS2 in my book.
Wonder_Hippie on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
I agree with all of that, except Prime needs to be on there for the same reason Mario 64 might need to be on there.
I'm not a big fan of fighting games, but I'm pretty sure this list NEEDs Mortal Kombat and Soul Caliber. Not sure which, if any, of those tekken/virtua fighters should be on the list as I don't play fighting games.
Any mention of Metal Slug games yet? Cause those should be somewhere on the list. Also I believe that Timesplitters 2 is on of the finest FPS's ever made.
Edit: Going to repeat myself here and say that Super Smash Bros: Melee is a required before you die game.
Updated the list. 122 titles so far. 80's needs more titles, as it is currently woefully lacking.
You missed Descent: Freespace (1998) and Freespace 2 (1999) twice now. I wouldn't be much of a shill if I didn't point this out again.
Edit: And yes, if only one can be thrown in, 2 is enough. Doesn't hurt that the plot, while a direct continuation of the first game, is also completely self-contained. Those folks at Volition sure used to know how to do an epic narrative.
Apparently they haven't been mentioned (looking at the list), so:
Metal Gear Solid 1
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
The gameplay in these games is great and the story is amazing.
Sure, MGS's story is amazing if William Shatner is your favorite actor, and you think that Matrix Reloaded represents apex of storytelling. ;-) But seriously, I think that one Metal Gear Solid is more than enough, but I don't know which one would be better; MGS1 or 3. MGS3 is better game per se, but MGS is the original one.
Wario Ware, Inc.: Mega Microgames (2003, Game Boy Advance)
While party games and Game & Watch compilations preceded it, this was the first - and arguably still the best - minigame collection with games so short, so absurd, thrown at the player so quickly.
two games i have seen mentioned were S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and battlefield 2 that i didn't see on list. i played both and thought they were great!!! and i see nothing wrong with battlefield 2142 either. maybe i am jumping the gun, and it hasn't been updated recently. if so, my bad.
I think people don't get the point of this list. There's a lot of people tossing in their favorite series, their favorite developer's stuff, etc. This kind of list is more about representation, in which the pinnacle, or pinnacles, if the titles are compelling enough, of an aspect of gaming is represented.
Story? Grim Fandango, hands down, is one of those pinnacles. 3D platform gaming? Mario 64 gets my vote. Traditional Western RPG gameplay? KOTOR for me. Traditional JRPG gameplay? One of the Dragon Quests, but they also cover the whole cultural phenomenon thing.
So, when thinking about why a game should be included on the list, think about an aspect of it that makes it, independent from other considerations, worthy of being on the list, and make that argument. Don't just toss it out there, give a reason for it. Certain games are no-brainers (Pong, maybe Asteroids, possibly that very first Star Wars arcade game), but for ones that the argument isn't just plain obvious, give reasons, give arguments, and contribute.
Sure, MGS's story is amazing if William Shatner is your favorite actor, and you think that Matrix Reloaded represents apex of storytelling. But seriously, I think that one Metal Gear Solid is more than enough, but I don't know which one would be better; MGS1 or 3. MGS3 is better game per se, but MGS is the original one.
I'd have to say MGS3. It took all the things that make MGS so compelling and combined them most effectively.
Looking over the list, Bioshock really has no place on there. Aside from changing the setting, Bioshock didn't do anything SS2 hadn't already done, and that place can be used for a much better entry, I'm sure.
Just because it wasn't as innovative as its a previous game in the series (spiritually, or whatever) doesn't mean it's any less of a game. I think it's something every gamer should experience.
I don't think it's less of a game, but I think that SS2 serves its role on the list better, and we should reserve that slot for something else. It's all about representation, and having Bioshock and SS2 on the list is just redundant.
Should there also be one Zelda game, on Mario game, etc.? I really don't think so, not on a list that's games to play before you die. Hell, I think you could throw on EVERY Metal Gear game, EVERY Metroid game, etc.
My point is that Bioshock isn't distinctly different in any way other than setting from SS2, and the story alone doesn't warrant an inclusion.
Magenta'd for LIES!
Seriously though, I don't think I've seen as many games -- FPS in particular -- where the entire gameplay, the entire world flows brilliantly and naturally from its intensely introspective, multi-layered narrative/story. It's as simple or as complex as you make it, and it asks a lot of Big Questions about philosophy and ideology. Freaking brilliant, and arguably could be enjoyed for story alone...never mind the fact that it's got the gameplay to back it up.
FireWeasel on
AC:CL Wii -- 3824-2125-9336 City: Felinito Me: Nick
The pinnacle of the shooters of its time. Incredibly disquieting atmosphere. Relatively epic set pieces and a range of environments. Introduced a choice of classes, hidden equipment and hub game play to the shooter genre. Also you could turn your enemies into pigs. It's a crime it hasn't been released on a hand held.
Looking over the list, Bioshock really has no place on there. Aside from changing the setting, Bioshock didn't do anything SS2 hadn't already done, and that place can be used for a much better entry, I'm sure.
Just because it wasn't as innovative as its a previous game in the series (spiritually, or whatever) doesn't mean it's any less of a game. I think it's something every gamer should experience.
I don't think it's less of a game, but I think that SS2 serves its role on the list better, and we should reserve that slot for something else. It's all about representation, and having Bioshock and SS2 on the list is just redundant.
Should there also be one Zelda game, on Mario game, etc.? I really don't think so, not on a list that's games to play before you die. Hell, I think you could throw on EVERY Metal Gear game, EVERY Metroid game, etc.
My point is that Bioshock isn't distinctly different in any way other than setting from SS2, and the story alone doesn't warrant an inclusion.
Magenta'd for LIES!
Seriously though, I don't think I've seen as many games -- FPS in particular -- where the entire gameplay, the entire world flows brilliantly and naturally from its intensely introspective, multi-layered narrative/story. It's as simple or as complex as you make it, and it asks a lot of Big Questions about philosophy and ideology. Freaking brilliant, and arguably could be enjoyed for story alone...never mind the fact that it's got the gameplay to back it up.
Looking over the list, Bioshock really has no place on there. Aside from changing the setting, Bioshock didn't do anything SS2 hadn't already done, and that place can be used for a much better entry, I'm sure.
Just because it wasn't as innovative as its a previous game in the series (spiritually, or whatever) doesn't mean it's any less of a game. I think it's something every gamer should experience.
I don't think it's less of a game, but I think that SS2 serves its role on the list better, and we should reserve that slot for something else. It's all about representation, and having Bioshock and SS2 on the list is just redundant.
Should there also be one Zelda game, on Mario game, etc.? I really don't think so, not on a list that's games to play before you die. Hell, I think you could throw on EVERY Metal Gear game, EVERY Metroid game, etc.
My point is that Bioshock isn't distinctly different in any way other than setting from SS2, and the story alone doesn't warrant an inclusion.
Magenta'd for LIES!
Seriously though, I don't think I've seen as many games -- FPS in particular -- where the entire gameplay, the entire world flows brilliantly and naturally from its intensely introspective, multi-layered narrative/story. It's as simple or as complex as you make it, and it asks a lot of Big Questions about philosophy and ideology. Freaking brilliant, and arguably could be enjoyed for story alone...never mind the fact that it's got the gameplay to back it up.
Ever read Ayn Rand?
Yes, actually. Why?
FireWeasel on
AC:CL Wii -- 3824-2125-9336 City: Felinito Me: Nick
Apparently, when it was released in Japan there was a big to-do about it because the story focuses on a corrupt religious institute. And according to past articles I've read, it was the first mass-distributed game to do this, and almost didn't get ported to English because of it.
Also, where the hell are the Warcraft games? Or Command and Conquer?
I'll go ahead and say Command and Conquer, C&C:Red Alert, and Warcraft 3. Reasons should be obvious(?)
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I love the Riddick movies, you can go to hell. :P
7th Guest, the: One of the first games released only on CD, and first to use real actors, this FMV puzzle game is surprisingly good.
Alone in the Dark: First original survival horror video game that wasn't based on licensed property. Forefather of the genre, and inspiration for many games. Has spawned five sequels so far.
Bad Mojo: Beautiful and artistic, this game puts into role of Roger Samms, an entomologist planning to embezzle money from a research grant to escape his sordid life above an abandoned bar. Something really, really bad happens and Roger wakes up as a cockroach. Surreal and unique experience.
Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars: Game that defined late 90's adventure game together with Grim Fandango.
I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream: Based on Harlan Ellison's novel of same name, this game puts you into role of world's five last humans that are imprisoned by AIM, insane supercomputer who has destroyed humanity. AIM has played sadistic games with each of the character for last 100 years, and now it gives each character gain his/her freedom, by taking part in "fun" games. Buggy, and in some places little unfair, it is one of the more mature and surreal adventure games ever released. Harlan Ellison's role as a insane supercomputer AIM is one of the best heard in videogames.
King's Quest: Not really that good game, but its historical signifance is huge. It was first commercially successful graphical adventure game.
Last Express, The: Suspected of irish police's murder, Robert Cath boards Orient Express to escape his fate. Unfortunately, he gets involved into shitstorm of political scheming, treachery, lies and romance. What makes game so fascinating (and infuriating at same time) is that everything literally happens in real time. For example, thirty minutes in real life translate into thirty minutes in game. Completely non-linear, every players decision affects what ending he gets. Game's music was composed, orchestrated and conducted by Czech composer Elia Cmiral, who later composed the scores for Ronin and Stigmata. Available at Gametap, BTW.
Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards: Historically significant as first "naughty" game to gain real commercial success and mainstream appeal. Great game too.
Maniac Mansion: Lucasarts's first foray into world of adventure games, and great attempt at that. Introduces SCUMM, Lucasarts fabulous adventure game engine.
Maniac Mansion: Day of the Tentacle: Doesn't do anything new, but goddamn it is funny and well-designed game.
Quest for Glory IV: Shadows of Darkness: Doesn't do anything new, but has great atmosphere, and easily best game in the series.
Quest for Glory: So You Want to be a Hero: First point'n click adventure game with RPG elements.
Simon the Sorcerer II: The Lion, the Wizard and the Wardrobe: Funny, and one of the better adventure games of late 90s.
Spycraft: the Great Game: Spycraft was experimental FMV adventure game from middle of 90s. You take role of CIA agent Thorn, whose mission is to solve who is behind murder of russian presidential candidate. Although the game was not approved by CIA, it tends to favour realism due to its coordination with former CIA director William Colby and former KGB Major-General Oleg Kalugin. Fascinating techno-triller that is seriously underappreciated.
Just because it wasn't as innovative as its a previous game in the series (spiritually, or whatever) doesn't mean it's any less of a game. I think it's something every gamer should experience.
I don't think it's less of a game, but I think that SS2 serves its role on the list better, and we should reserve that slot for something else. It's all about representation, and having Bioshock and SS2 on the list is just redundant.
Regardless of when it was, it still needs to be on there.
Should there also be one Zelda game, on Mario game, etc.? I really don't think so, not on a list that's games to play before you die. Hell, I think you could throw on EVERY Metal Gear game, EVERY Metroid game, etc.
Well, the thing is, Super Mario Bros. is distinctly different from Mario Bros. Also, Mario 64 is distinctly different either of those. My point is that Bioshock isn't distinctly different in any way other than setting from SS2, and the story alone doesn't warrant an inclusion.
Besides, I'd never throw in every Metroid game. Fusion? Nah, doesn't necessarily deserve a spot. Maybe Zero Mission, because you get the idea of the 2D Metroids enough. I also wouldn't include any of the Prime games, but that's because I can't stand the control.
Also, Snake's Revenge was better than Metal Gear, so that'd get a spot. MGS3 would beat out MGS or MGS2 in my book.
Metal Gear Solid 1
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
The gameplay in these games is great and the story is amazing.
And for the same reasons, Devil May Cry 3.
Any mention of Metal Slug games yet? Cause those should be somewhere on the list. Also I believe that Timesplitters 2 is on of the finest FPS's ever made.
Edit: Going to repeat myself here and say that Super Smash Bros: Melee is a required before you die game.
Setai - Level 72 Tri-Elementalist Sorceress
Spammykins - Level 46 Trapsin
Spamrat - Level 82 Dual Mace Barb
Spammykin - Level 19 Bowazon
You missed Descent: Freespace (1998) and Freespace 2 (1999) twice now. I wouldn't be much of a shill if I didn't point this out again.
Edit: And yes, if only one can be thrown in, 2 is enough. Doesn't hurt that the plot, while a direct continuation of the first game, is also completely self-contained. Those folks at Volition sure used to know how to do an epic narrative.
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Both should be on the list, as well as:
Ikaruga
Guardian Heroes
Jet Grind Radio
Wetrix
Metal Gear
Thunder Force IV
Bubble Bobble
Bust a Move
Yes.
If we're going with one, I'd go with 2.
If Master of Orion is on the list, Galactic Civilizations II: Dread Lords is essentially a perfected, modernized version.
Also, Prince of Persia and Worms.
Sure, MGS's story is amazing if William Shatner is your favorite actor, and you think that Matrix Reloaded represents apex of storytelling. ;-) But seriously, I think that one Metal Gear Solid is more than enough, but I don't know which one would be better; MGS1 or 3. MGS3 is better game per se, but MGS is the original one.
Which one? I would personally go with second one.
I liked World Party alot, Dreamcast version was the best.
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Squirminator should decide. :P
Saga was the RPG one, right?
While party games and Game & Watch compilations preceded it, this was the first - and arguably still the best - minigame collection with games so short, so absurd, thrown at the player so quickly.
Exceptionally fun top down action game that is still fun to play, especially co-op.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smash_TV
Story? Grim Fandango, hands down, is one of those pinnacles. 3D platform gaming? Mario 64 gets my vote. Traditional Western RPG gameplay? KOTOR for me. Traditional JRPG gameplay? One of the Dragon Quests, but they also cover the whole cultural phenomenon thing.
So, when thinking about why a game should be included on the list, think about an aspect of it that makes it, independent from other considerations, worthy of being on the list, and make that argument. Don't just toss it out there, give a reason for it. Certain games are no-brainers (Pong, maybe Asteroids, possibly that very first Star Wars arcade game), but for ones that the argument isn't just plain obvious, give reasons, give arguments, and contribute.
I'd have to say MGS3. It took all the things that make MGS so compelling and combined them most effectively.
Magenta'd for LIES!
Seriously though, I don't think I've seen as many games -- FPS in particular -- where the entire gameplay, the entire world flows brilliantly and naturally from its intensely introspective, multi-layered narrative/story. It's as simple or as complex as you make it, and it asks a lot of Big Questions about philosophy and ideology. Freaking brilliant, and arguably could be enjoyed for story alone...never mind the fact that it's got the gameplay to back it up.
The pinnacle of the shooters of its time. Incredibly disquieting atmosphere. Relatively epic set pieces and a range of environments. Introduced a choice of classes, hidden equipment and hub game play to the shooter genre. Also you could turn your enemies into pigs. It's a crime it hasn't been released on a hand held.
the original Earthworm Jim was all kinds of uber, and really should be played by all.
Ever read Ayn Rand?
Yes, actually. Why?
Apparently, when it was released in Japan there was a big to-do about it because the story focuses on a corrupt religious institute. And according to past articles I've read, it was the first mass-distributed game to do this, and almost didn't get ported to English because of it.
Also, where the hell are the Warcraft games? Or Command and Conquer?
I'll go ahead and say Command and Conquer, C&C:Red Alert, and Warcraft 3. Reasons should be obvious(?)