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Wherein G&T selects and ranks the best games ever released for the Sega Genesis / MD

SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User regular
edited September 2007 in Games and Technology
Edit Sept 2 - results posted on site
http://www.sixfortyfive.com/genesis/


What started out as a quest to list all of the Genesis / Mega Drive games I've wanted to play but haven't got around to yet culminated into a bigger internet project of sorts. Here's the deal: I want you to go here and vote on your favorite games for the Gen/MD. Most of you have seen this sort of thing before. It's a best game poll set up in the same manner as previous GOTY polls that have been posted here. Think of it as a slightly more sophisticated "tell me how to spend my money" thread.

For those who don't know how this works: you're allowed to pick and rank as many games as you want from a given list, and the script will assign points to each game according to how you rank them. Your favorite game gets 21 points, 2nd favorite gets 20, and so on. All games you rank below 20th get 1 point each. Results will be displayed according to this point system along with standard first-past-the-post and instant runoff results and more. Polls in this format usually yield very good results, so I wanted to try one myself. If nothing else, I suppose this could serve as a general Virtual Console recommendation thread for the games that apply.

There are mechanisms in place to prevent cheating. If you vote more than once, all of your votes will be deleted.

I'll keep this up for about a week and then make the results public.

Also, let me know if there's any errors in the game list. I tried to make sure I didn't miss anything or get anything wrong but at 900+ titles I wouldn't be surprised if a few mistakes slipped in. I won't be posting full results until it's closed, but feel free to discuss your votes if you want.

poasting something foolishly foolish.
Sixfortyfive on

Posts

  • StigmaStigma Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Done.
    It was a bit large, but what could we expect.

    My list probably isn't really definitive... It was hard to nail down the top 20 in a SPECIFIC order.

    Stigma on
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  • HtownHtown Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Man. I had TOTALLY forgotten the existence of Steel Empire.

    Htown on
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  • AntibodiesAntibodies Used to live in a psychic city. Never knew what would happen in a day. Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I don't think most PAers were even around to fully grasp the glory days of Genesis, it was the underdog in that era so much of its gems are totally lost and this thread is doomed. I voted the hell out of it though, props for putting the thing together, it brought up a lot of memories and I'm eager to see the results.

    OH Hell! I forgot Home Alone, dammit I loved that game.

    Antibodies on
    XBL: thetinwoodsman
  • JetBlackCenterJetBlackCenter Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Kid Chameleon better be somewhere on that list.

    JetBlackCenter on
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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Antibodies wrote: »
    I don't think most PAers were even around to fully grasp the glory days of Genesis, it was the underdog in that era so much of its gems are totally lost and this thread is doomed. I voted the hell out of it though, props for putting the thing together, it brought up a lot of memories and I'm eager to see the results.

    OH Hell! I forgot Home Alone, dammit I loved that game.

    Nintendo does what segon't.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • MasoniteMasonite Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I don't know if T2 is the same as the arcade game, but it's not like I'd vote for it anyway.

    Masonite on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Michael Jackson: Moonwalker

    Balefuego on
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  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2007
    Antibodies wrote: »
    I don't think most PAers were even around to fully grasp the glory days of Genesis, it was the underdog in that era so much of its gems are totally lost and this thread is doomed. I voted the hell out of it though, props for putting the thing together, it brought up a lot of memories and I'm eager to see the results.

    OH Hell! I forgot Home Alone, dammit I loved that game.

    Underdog? Are you sure about that?

    Any way.

    Thunderforce series
    Herzog Zwei

    Etc etc. Seems like these games have been coming up more frequently around here. That's a good thing.

    Sheep on
  • VicissitudeVicissitude Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Sleep wrote: »
    Antibodies wrote: »
    I don't think most PAers were even around to fully grasp the glory days of Genesis, it was the underdog in that era so much of its gems are totally lost and this thread is doomed. I voted the hell out of it though, props for putting the thing together, it brought up a lot of memories and I'm eager to see the results.

    OH Hell! I forgot Home Alone, dammit I loved that game.

    Underdog? Are you sure about that?

    Any way.

    Thunderforce series
    Herzog Zwei

    Etc etc. Seems like these games have been coming up more frequently around here. That's a good thing.

    I'm pretty sure the Genesis sold better than the SNES up until Donkey Country was released, then the SNES took over.

    Vicissitude on
  • RookieRookie Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I always had a Genesis. My dad took me to his friend's house when I was little and his friend was playing NHL Hockey by EA - I guess that would have been the 1992 version - with wireless controllers and we were both amazed. The next day we went out and bought one and my NES hardly got used at all after that.

    I still have my original Sega CD, 32X and[/] Nomad. Since I have the arcade sticks for my Dreamcast, I bust that out every so often to play MVC2 and other 2d fighters. I loved Sega's hardware. Except for the Sega CD and 32X. lolz.

    Rookie on
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  • StigmaStigma Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I'm pretty sure there's a big part of the PA community that experienced the Genesis.
    More than most online sites anyway.

    Some of us are pretty old.

    Stigma on
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  • SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Stigma wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure there's a big part of the PA community that experienced the Genesis.
    More than most online sites anyway.
    PA and its off-shoots have always seemed like more of a Nintendo crowd, at least in comparison to a lot of my other haunts (TNL, got next, insert credit, hg101, treasure fanpage). Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    Glad somebody saved me the trouble of bumping this thread. :)

    Sixfortyfive on
    poasting something foolishly foolish.
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Masonite wrote: »
    I don't know if T2 is the same as the arcade game, but it's not like I'd vote for it anyway.

    Not even close. In fact, it's arguably even tougher.

    I still played it to death when it came out.


    Anyway, my starter was the NES, but when I got a Genesis, I was pretty much converted for life. I got the SNES not long after, but when the Sega CD came out, and then the Saturn, I didn't look back to Nintendo until the Dreamcast died.

    Ironically, I thought of the Gamecube as the new DC in a way; lots of underappreciated cult classics.

    M.U.S.H.A. still tops my list. Not just my favorite Genesis game, but probably my favorite shmup ever.

    The intro was mind-blowing for its time.

    cj iwakura on
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  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    The Megadrive totally annihilated the SNES in the UK. It's one of the main reasons the N64, the Gamecube and now the Wii struggle here.

    I'm filling out your list now and am reminded what awesome licensed games the MD had. Aladdin, Mickey, the Lion King - movie games shouldn't be that good.

    Where did you get this list from? I'm pretty sure it's missing some games I have. "Shane Wayne Cricket" should be "Warne"; and only Shinobi III seems to be listed.

    Æthelred on
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  • SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Disney games in general were pretty good in the 8/16-bit days. NES Duck Tales rocked.

    The list was pulled mostly from sega-16.com with some edits. As for Shinobi: Shinobi III, Shadow Dancer, and Revenge of Shinobi are accounted for.

    Sixfortyfive on
    poasting something foolishly foolish.
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Ah right; was looking under "S" for all three.

    I don't think this top 5 can be bettered on any other console:
    # Sonic the Hedgehog 2
    # Desert Strike: Return to the Gulf
    # Golden Axe
    # Micro Machines: Turbo Tournament '96
    # Wonder Boy in Monster World

    Æthelred on
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  • EstocEstoc Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    So, I'm supposed to pick my top 20? Uhh, in my case it's out of 50. Have I really played that many Sega games? D:

    Estoc on
  • SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Estoc wrote: »
    So, I'm supposed to pick my top 20? Uhh, in my case it's out of 50. Have I really played that many Sega games? D:
    Sort your top 20, then rank the rest however you want. Anything that you vote for below 20th gets the same number of points.

    I listed about 45. There were a few dozen other games that I had played but felt that they either didn't hold up very well or I didn't remember enough about them to give them a solid vote.

    Sixfortyfive on
    poasting something foolishly foolish.
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
      [*]#1: Phantasy Star 4
      [*]#2: Gunstar Heroes
      Seriously, Phantasy Star 4 is one of the most underrated games ever released. A combination of a mixed pedigree (e.g. PS2 was strictly for sadists, and PS3 was for people who hate gaming) and a horribly expensive cart certainly didn't help it gain in popularity, but I'd put it in the company of Chrono Trigger and FF4 & 6. It's that good. Easily one of the best games of the 16-bit era, on any console.

      s3rial one on
    • AntibodiesAntibodies Used to live in a psychic city. Never knew what would happen in a day. Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
      edited August 2007
      I ended up with about 50 as well, I own around 70 Genesis games to this day, all mint in cases. I have about that many games for all my consoles though. Back then a game would last me from holiday to holiday when I'd get a new one.

      I suppose the Genesis wasn't much of an underdog compared to the NES, but looking back on it now, there was/is so much more general love for Nintendo, whereas I was never allowed to have a Nintendo as a kid, by my family's orders. I wonder if the Sega love would still abide to the same extent as Nintendo had the Dreamcast fared somewhat better.

      I'm really pleased with the Sega stuff coming out on Virtual Console, its the biggest selling point for the Wii for me.

      Antibodies on
      XBL: thetinwoodsman
    • EstocEstoc Registered User regular
      edited August 2007
      I listed about 45. There were a few dozen other games that I had played but felt that they either didn't hold up very well or I didn't remember enough about them to give them a solid vote.
      Yeah, same here, I've played plenty of games that aren't worth mentioning as well.
      s3rial one wrote:
      #1: Phantasy Star 4
      This man speaks the truth. That game is timeless. Looking back, I'm not even sure what it was; the music, the storyline, the characters, it just all clicked in the right way. Oh, and the Land Rover: blowing the shit out of critters in a giant tank never hurt, and it made travel between towns a good bit more fun. Totally number one on my list as well.

      Estoc on
    • SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User regular
      edited August 2007
      I'm taking this thing down tomorrow night, so I figure I'd bring this thread back up and ask for a few more votes. I've only received about 150 so far.

      Sixfortyfive on
      poasting something foolishly foolish.
    • PratleyPratley Registered User regular
      edited August 2007
      Warriors of the eternal sun was my favorite non-phantasy star rpg for the genesis.

      Pratley on
    • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
      edited August 2007
      Not enough Landstalker love here.



      There needs to be more Landstalker love.

      MechMantis on
    • Rigor MortisRigor Mortis Registered User regular
      edited August 2007
      Can't believe they never localized Monster World IV. WAIT OHMYGOD it's HERE on this list. I salute you guys.


      (For those of you unfamiliar with the name, this is the equivalent of Nintendo not localizing Seiken Densetsu III.)

      Rigor Mortis on
    • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
      edited August 2007
      Oh fuck I forgot Wonderboy

      Salvation122 on
    • Rigor MortisRigor Mortis Registered User regular
      edited August 2007
      Oh fuck I forgot Wonderboy

      for shame

      Rigor Mortis on
    • SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive Registered User regular
      edited September 2007
      Results posted on the site. Copy & paste job incoming for the terminally lazy:
      The following are the results from a poll run from Aug 26, 2007 to Sep 2, 2007. 166 people were asked to pick and rank their favorite games for the Sega Genesis / Mega Drive from a provided list of over 900 titles. Here's how they voted.


      PSEUDO-CONDORCET SORT
      view complete results:
      bar display
      grid display

      In this results tally, each game is scored according to a weighted system. Users were asked to rank each Genesis game from favorite to least favorite. Each user's favorite game received 21 points, their second-favorite received 20, and so on. All games ranked 21st or lower by each user received 1 point each.

      I'm not sure what to make of several older games of a series outperforming their often-superior sequels. Sonic 1 was only barely bested by S3&K, and SoR3 places below not only SoR2 but SoR1 as well (I'll never fully understand the hate for that game). I'm going to assume that this is partly a side-effect of the earlier games of a series being the ones most-widely played. The approval list further down the page lends some credibility to this theory.

      In my opinion, the biggest shocker on this list was Disney's Aladdin. Though it failed to receive a single 1st place vote, it still managed to break into the top 10. I had no idea it was so popular.

      1) Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1652)
      2) Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles (1339)
      3) Sonic the Hedgehog (1307)
      4) Gunstar Heroes (953)
      5) Streets of Rage 2 (850)
      6) Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium (731)
      7) Streets of Rage (597)
      8) ToeJam & Earl (593)
      9) Shining Force II: The Ancient Seal (543)
      10) Aladdin (495)
      11) Earthworm Jim (447)
      12) Shining Force: The Legacy of Great Intention (440)
      13) Phantasy Star II: At the End of the Lost Age (426)
      14) Ecco the Dolphin (399)
      15) Streets of Rage 3 (391)
      16) Vectorman (371)
      17) Contra: Hard Corps (370)
      18) Landstalker: The Treasures of King Nole (350)
      19) Golden Axe (342)
      20) Comix Zone (341)
      21) Beyond Oasis (318)
      22) Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master (306)
      23) Dynamite Headdy (305)
      24) Street Fighter II' Special Champion Edition (296)
      25) Castlevania: Bloodlines (295)
      26) Rocket Knight Adventures (258)
      27) Sonic Spinball (253)
      28) Ristar (250)
      29) Alien Soldier (245)
      30) Kid Chameleon (234)
      31) ToeJam & Earl in Panic on Funkotron (233)
      32) Earthworm Jim 2 (218)
      32) Road Rash (218)
      34) Ghouls 'N Ghosts (217)
      35) Ecco the Dolphin: The Tides of Time (214)
      36) Zombies Ate My Neighbors (197)
      37) Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom (191)
      38) Super Street Fighter II: The New Challengers (189)
      39) Mortal Kombat II (184)
      40) Wonder Boy in Monster World (183)
      41) Flashback: Quest for Identity (181)
      42) Michael Jackson's Moonwalker (177)
      42) Battletoads (177)
      44) Jurassic Park (174)
      44) Road Rash II (174)
      46) Ranger-X (172)
      47) Shining in the Darkness (170)
      48) Castle of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse (169)
      49) Lightening Force (168)
      50) Strider (163)


      INSTANT RUNOFF SORT

      In this results tally, the list is sorted according to instant runoff voting. In an IRV election, if no candidate receives an overall majority of first place choices, the candidates with the fewest number of votes are excluded one by one, and ballots cast for those candidates are redistributed to the next candidate according to the voters' indicated preference. This process is repeated until one candidate obtains a majority (50% or more) of votes among remaining candidates.

      The complete results for this sort will not be posted, as it takes way too long to calculate the entire list.

      1) Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (122)
      2) Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles (102)
      3) Sonic the Hedgehog (116)
      4) Gunstar Heroes (69)
      5) Streets of Rage 2 (73)
      6) Streets of Rage (71)
      7) Aladdin (65)
      8) Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium (53)
      9) ToeJam & Earl (51)
      10) Earthworm Jim (64)
      11) Shining Force II: The Ancient Seal (50)
      12) Shining Force: The Legacy of Great Intention (47)
      13) Ecco the Dolphin (60)
      14) Streets of Rage 3 (51)
      15) Contra: Hard Corps (47)
      16) Comix Zone (50)
      17) Vectorman (48)
      18) Phantasy Star II: At the End of the Lost Age (43)
      19) Beyond Oasis (39)
      20) Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master (42)
      21) Landstalker: The Treasures of King Nole (39)
      22) Castlevania: Bloodlines (44)
      23) Earthworm Jim 2 (41)
      24) Ghouls 'N Ghosts (42)
      25) Street Fighter II' Special Champion Edition (40)
      26) Golden Axe (61)
      27) Sonic Spinball (38)
      28) Castle of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse (39)
      29) Altered Beast (39)
      30) Kid Chameleon (32)
      31) ToeJam & Earl in Panic on Funkotron (33)
      32) Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom (35)
      33) Super Street Fighter II: The New Challengers (33)
      34) Mortal Kombat II (32)
      35) Michael Jackson's Moonwalker (36)
      36) Road Rash (33)
      37) Alien Soldier (28)
      38) Rocket Knight Adventures (29)
      39) Dynamite Headdy (34)
      40) Ecco the Dolphin: The Tides of Time (33)
      41) Ristar (29)
      42) Flashback: Quest for Identity (26)
      43) Shining in the Darkness (28)
      44) Revenge of Shinobi (31)
      45) Zombies Ate My Neighbors (30)
      46) Battletoads (26)
      47) Golden Axe II (39)
      48) Mortal Kombat (33)
      49) Quackshot (26)
      50) Columns (36)


      FIRST PAST THE POST SORT
      view complete results

      In this results tally, each game is scored solely on the number of 1st place votes received. These would have been the results had each participant been asked to list only his or her single favorite Genesis game.

      S3&K absolutely crushed everything on this one, and it's nice to see that I wasn't the only one to pick Alien Soldier. ToeJam & Earl did better than I expected of it here.

      1) Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles (25)
      2) Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (10)
      2) Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium (10)
      2) ToeJam & Earl (10)
      5) Sonic the Hedgehog (8)
      6) Phantasy Star II: At the End of the Lost Age (7)
      6) Streets of Rage 2 (7)
      8) Gunstar Heroes (6)
      9) Shining Force II: The Ancient Seal (5)
      10) Streets of Rage (4)
      10) Kid Chameleon (4)
      12) Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master (3)
      12) Alien Soldier (3)
      12) Shining Force: The Legacy of Great Intention (3)
      12) Vectorman (3)
      16) NHL '94 (2)
      16) Herzog Zwei (2)
      16) Ghouls 'N Ghosts (2)
      16) Rocket Knight Adventures (2)
      16) Beyond Oasis (2)
      16) Michael Jackson's Moonwalker (2)
      16) Streets of Rage 3 (2)


      APPROVAL SORT
      view complete results

      In this results tally, each game is awarded 1 point for each vote regardless of where it ranks on each participant's individual list. Games scoring high on this list are typically widely-played and widely-enjoyed but not necessarily strongly-enjoyed.

      Besides S3&K receiving several fewer votes than its predecessors, nothing really stands out to me here.

      1) Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (122)
      2) Sonic the Hedgehog (116)
      3) Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles (102)
      4) Streets of Rage 2 (73)
      5) Streets of Rage (71)
      6) Gunstar Heroes (69)
      7) Aladdin (65)
      8) Earthworm Jim (64)
      9) Golden Axe (61)
      10) Ecco the Dolphin (60)
      11) Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium (53)
      12) ToeJam & Earl (51)
      12) Streets of Rage 3 (51)
      14) Shining Force II: The Ancient Seal (50)
      14) Comix Zone (50)
      16) Vectorman (48)
      17) Shining Force: The Legacy of Great Intention (47)
      17) Contra: Hard Corps (47)
      19) Castlevania: Bloodlines (44)
      20) Phantasy Star II: At the End of the Lost Age (43)
      21) Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master (42)
      21) Ghouls 'N Ghosts (42)
      23) Earthworm Jim 2 (41)
      24) Street Fighter II' Special Champion Edition (40)
      25) Golden Axe II (39)
      25) Altered Beast (39)
      25) Beyond Oasis (39)
      25) Castle of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse (39)
      25) Landstalker: The Treasures of King Nole (39)
      30) Sonic Spinball (38)
      31) Columns (36)
      31) Michael Jackson's Moonwalker (36)
      33) Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom (35)
      34) Dynamite Headdy (34)
      35) Road Rash (33)
      35) Ecco the Dolphin: The Tides of Time (33)
      35) Mortal Kombat (33)
      35) ToeJam & Earl in Panic on Funkotron (33)
      35) Super Street Fighter II: The New Challengers (33)
      40) Mortal Kombat II (32)
      40) Kid Chameleon (32)
      40) Strider (32)
      40) Jurassic Park (32)
      44) Revenge of Shinobi (31)
      45) Zombies Ate My Neighbors (30)
      46) Rocket Knight Adventures (29)
      46) Ristar (29)
      48) Cool Spot (28)
      48) Alien Soldier (28)
      48) X-Men (28)
      48) Shining in the Darkness (28)



      CONDORCET/APPROVAL SORT (5-VOTE MINIMUM)
      view complete results:
      5-vote minimum
      4-vote minimum
      3-vote minimum
      2-vote minimum
      all games

      In this results tally, each game's score from the pseudo-condorcet score is divided by the total number of votes it received. Under-played but strongly-liked games are more likely to score high on this list, but outliers are more prevalent as well.

      It's nice to see Monster World IV, Pirates! Gold, and some other more obscure titles get a little recognition here. Sports titles generally did better than I expected them to.

      1) Gunstar Heroes (13.812)
      2) Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium (13.792)
      3) Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (13.541)
      4) Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles (13.127)
      5) Streets of Rage 2 (11.644)
      6) ToeJam & Earl (11.627)
      7) Sonic the Hedgehog (11.267)
      8) Shining Force II: The Ancient Seal (10.860)
      9) Phantasy Star II: At the End of the Lost Age (9.907)
      10) Monster World IV (9.533)
      11) Double Dragon (9.400)
      12) Shining Force: The Legacy of Great Intention (9.362)
      13) Micro Machines: Turbo Tournament '96 (9.143)
      14) Landstalker: The Treasures of King Nole (8.974)
      15) Dynamite Headdy (8.971)
      16) Rocket Knight Adventures (8.897)
      17) Alien Soldier (8.750)
      18) WWF Royal Rumble (8.667)
      18) Dungeons & Dragons: Warriors of the Eternal Sun (8.667)
      20) Ristar (8.621)
      21) Tecmo Super Bowl (8.571)
      22) Streets of Rage (8.408)
      23) Lightening Force (8.400)
      23) Pirates! Gold (8.400)
      25) WWF Raw (8.200)
      26) WWF Super Wrestlemania (8.167)
      27) Beyond Oasis (8.154)
      28) King's Bounty (8.000)
      29) Road Rash II (7.909)
      30) Contra: Hard Corps (7.872)
      31) NHL '94 (7.769)
      32) Vectorman (7.729)
      33) Streets of Rage 3 (7.667)
      34) Aladdin (7.615)
      35) Mutant League Football (7.600)
      36) B.O.B (7.571)
      37) Langrisser II (7.545)
      38) Dune: Battle for Arakis (7.500)
      38) NHLPA Hockey '93 (7.500)
      40) Battletoads & Double Dragon (7.421)
      41) Championship Pro-Am (7.400)
      41) Street Fighter II' Special Champion Edition (7.400)
      43) Herzog Zwei (7.333)
      43) Starflight (7.333)
      45) Kid Chameleon (7.313)
      46) Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master (7.286)
      47) Aerobiz (7.200)
      48) Tecmo Super Bowl 3: Final Edition (7.167)
      48) General Chaos (7.167)
      50) MERCS (7.111)

      Sixfortyfive on
      poasting something foolishly foolish.
    • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
      edited September 2007
      wow, more people need to play herzog zwei.

      TelMarine on
      3ds: 4983-4935-4575
    • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
      edited September 2007
      This thread makes me bitter that I don't have Shinobi 3 or a working Genesis anymore.

      Al_wat on
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