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Why don't you like Superman?

13567

Posts

  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Wolverine has reached levels of retardedness with his powers that have completely turned me off from him. The character is still cool but being able to regenerate from nothing but a skeleton within, what, an hour is pretty god damn terrible writing.

    Accualt on
  • SaphSaph Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Septus wrote: »
    For me, it just boils down to Superman being the perfect hero, and that's less interesting to me. More conflict is good, which Batman and Spider-man have in spades. I don't want to read about a shining beacon of morality.
    Okay, now go read a Superman comic and tell us what you think about Superman.

    Saph on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Saph wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    For me, it just boils down to Superman being the perfect hero, and that's less interesting to me. More conflict is good, which Batman and Spider-man have in spades. I don't want to read about a shining beacon of morality.
    Okay, now go read a Superman comic and tell us what you think about Superman.

    Very true that I've not read a Supes comic in forever, but in this very thread he's being described as having infinite patience and love for humanity. That's what I'm talking about.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Everyone needs to read the Supreme Power MAX series.

    The MAX series, not the monthy vanilla bullshit.

    Because really, what Supervillian with super strength WOULDN'T use Humans as missles.

    Really now.

    Transporter on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I think the real appeal for Superman for me has always been playing someone like Batman off him. To see the whole "ultra-powerful goody goody and unpowered dark asshole." It's why I loved JL/U. His solo series, I fear, would lack that.

    The Muffin Man on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    august wrote: »
    Spectre-x wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    Yeah. He's pretty much Marvel's Thanos (or Thanos is Marvel's Darkseid, if you will). He's the "huge, galactic threat" that just so happens to be linked back to one specific hero(in Marvel's case, it's the fairly obscure Adam Warlock, or sometimes the SLIGHTLY*that's dripping with sarcasm, folks* less obscure Fantastic Four. In DC's case it's Superman.)

    Way OT, but Thanos hasn't been the galactic threat since the original Infinity Gauntlet. He also has no desire for worshipers or followers. He's also less powerful but way smarter than Darkseid.

    I don't think you know just how smart Darkseid is. He is a scientific genius. He knows how to create life using SCIENCE. Easily. He's just as smart, if not smarter than Thanos.

    I guess I should have said "sneaky." He's way sneakier than Darkseid.

    Darkseid is fucking sneaky, too. He provides various criminal organizations with highly advanced weapons so that they'll thin out the hero population to make taking planets over easier. He also let Scott Free escape so as to nullify the pact between New Genesis and Apokolips so he could wipe out New Genesis in a quick, unexpected instant, if I remember correctly.

    Spectre-x on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    no spex, no.


    we will just agree that both Darkseid and Thanos are rad characters

    The Lovely Bastard on
    7656367.jpg
  • PantheraOncaPantheraOnca Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I think the real appeal for Superman for me has always been playing someone like Batman off him. To see the whole "ultra-powerful goody goody and unpowered dark asshole." It's why I loved JL/U. His solo series, I fear, would lack that.

    Yes.

    PantheraOnca on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Accualt wrote: »
    Wolverine has reached levels of retardedness with his powers that have completely turned me off from him. The character is still cool but being able to regenerate from nothing but a skeleton within, what, an hour is pretty god damn terrible writing.


    Yea, the only way I can have any respect for Wolverine is to ignore the last year or two of his solo series and pretend they never happened.

    Scooter on
  • Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I hate Superman because he made me bald.

    Synthetic Orange on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I hate Superman because he made me bald.

    How bald did he make you?

    Spectre-x on
  • Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    So bald.

    Synthetic Orange on
  • LibrarianThorneLibrarianThorne Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I think the real appeal for Superman for me has always been playing someone like Batman off him. To see the whole "ultra-powerful goody goody and unpowered dark asshole." It's why I loved JL/U. His solo series, I fear, would lack that.

    Superman: Confidential might be the book for you, at least this first arc. Superman absolutely flipped his shit when he was caught inside a volcano and magma filled his lungs. It's got a great look on his invulnerability and how that affects him. I mean, I'd be paranoid as shit, too. THere's this huge list of crap that doesn't hurt him, but he can never know what's really life threatening besides Kryptonite. That's pretty messed up stuff.

    I highly recommend Superman/Batman vol. 1 for you, Muffin, as well as all of Morrison's JLA.

    Septus, the infinite patience/messianic stuff is really hot and heavy in Johns and Ross works, but there's plenty of great stuff besides. For the Man Who Has Everything and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? are both really worth a read. For post-Crisis stuff, I think you'd like Man of Steel volume 1. In Byrne's origin, Superman himself is really freaked out by how people percieve him. Lex Luthor: Man of Steel also has a great peek into the infinite patience angle from Luthor's point of view, who wonders just when the Man of Steel will snap and make the whole world suffer.

    LibrarianThorne on
  • ShamusShamus Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I didn't like Superman much, but I love the All-Star Superman series.

    I think my favorite Superman is the one seen in Kingdom Come.

    Old and weary of the world that left him behind. It didn't matter that he was the Superman, capable of nearly anything. The world left him behind, in his Fortress of Solitude.

    Shamus on
  • AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    if my only exposure to superman was picking up a random superman comic on the shelves, i'd probably hate superman. i flipped through all the old issues in my local shop today and it was all so awful.

    a question on superman, how did the fall of camelot end? or has it even ended yet?

    Angry on
  • LibrarianThorneLibrarianThorne Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Angry wrote: »
    if my only exposure to superman was picking up a random superman comic on the shelves, i'd probably hate superman. i flipped through all the old issues in my local shop today and it was all so awful.

    a question on superman, how did the fall of camelot end? or has it even ended yet?

    I think it ends in September in October.

    I really don't get it, to be honest. Geoff Johns, Kurt Busiek, and Fabian Niciezca have been writing Superman since Infinite Crisis. Besides Fabian Niciezca's stuff (with the faith-based hero and Auction-lactus) the stories have been really pretty much shit. Simone and Vehrheiden were writing Big Blue when I got back into the character and Simone's done in oen issues with ary by John Byrne were so good, and while Vehrheiden's run had some issues the last three were pretty good stuff. Up Up and Away was just totally uninteresting (wheee movie nod), Last Son has been marginally better than the fuckup that Wonder Woman is, and even Busiek's Fall of Camelot has lost a lot of steam due to all the filler. Even then, the Prankster stuff and the Jimmy Olsen stuff is just bleh, and the Subjekt 17 thing was total crap.

    My God, Busiek wrote one of the best Superman stories of all time in Secret Identity. His in-continuity work has been, 99% of the time, really good and at the least very fun. There's none of that in his Superman run.

    I say scrap Johns, Donner, and Busiek and give me back Gail Simone and Fabian Niciezca. Johns/Donner and Busiek are bigger names, sure, but their comics blow. 2006 was supposed to be a banner year for Superman, but everything has really just fizzled. The only thing Up Up and Away was good for was the wtfawesome Pete Woods art, which was also the only good thing about Amazons Attack. I'm at the point where I'd kill a small, defenseless creature if it meant Fabian Niciezca and Pete Woods on Action Comics for 2 years.

    LibrarianThorne on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I like the current Johns/Donner stuff.

    But yeah I was dissapointed in Busiek so I dropped it.

    Balefuego on
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  • sushijerksushijerk Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I don't even read most of the current Superman books right now other than All-Star, but I respect the iconic status that his character has enjoyed. The world of Metropolis has changed a lot, Lois/Olsen/Lex have all gone through a lot of iterations, but any changes made to Superman has not stuck and for all purposes he has been the same guy for decades.

    I think I'm just a little annoyed that every single other hero keeps on getting rewritten or replaced with younger/high school version of themselves to pander to whatever new generation of teens that the publishers feel is their core demographic. All of sudden established characters are now 5 years younger, and they're all of a sudden hackers, and they have sad girlfriend troubles. Sometimes this is well done (Ultimate Spiderman), but in most cases it comes of as unnecessary and contrived.

    I think a lot of people feel Superman comics are stale simply because it is really, really hard to write a good Superman story that still feels fresh. It's easy to be fresh and creative when you can rebuild a character from the ground up, but with Superman you don't have any of those liberties, which I feel constrains a lot of writers. The villain of the week strategy simply doesn't work in a Superman run. Writers either have to pull off a threat of epic scale (JLA: one Million, WW3) or give a poignant look at his everyday life (Superman for All Seasons, All Star Superman). Both are very difficult.

    sushijerk on
  • silkypeasilkypea Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    why the fuck didn't this question thread get locked

    silkypea on
    from the bottom of the bottle to the top of the throne
    doom the fuck tree
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    You're a genius.

    august on
  • LibrarianThorneLibrarianThorne Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    sushijerk wrote: »
    I don't even read most of the current Superman books right now other than All-Star, but I respect the iconic status that his character has enjoyed. The world of Metropolis has changed a lot, Lois/Olsen/Lex have all gone through a lot of iterations, but any changes made to Superman has not stuck and for all purposes he has been the same guy for decades.

    I think I'm just a little annoyed that every single other hero keeps on getting rewritten or replaced with younger/high school version of themselves to pander to whatever new generation of teens that the publishers feel is their core demographic. All of sudden established characters are now 5 years younger, and they're all of a sudden hackers, and they have sad girlfriend troubles. Sometimes this is well done (Ultimate Spiderman), but in most cases it comes of as unnecessary and contrived.

    I think a lot of people feel Superman comics are stale simply because it is really, really hard to write a good Superman story that still feels fresh. It's easy to be fresh and creative when you can rebuild a character from the ground up, but with Superman you don't have any of those liberties, which I feel constrains a lot of writers. The villain of the week strategy simply doesn't work in a Superman run. Writers either have to pull off a threat of epic scale (JLA: one Million, WW3) or give a poignant look at his everyday life (Superman for All Seasons, All Star Superman). Both are very difficult.

    This is exactly it, in so many words. For characters like Spider-Man or Batman writers have some easy psychological crutches to lean on to write a good story. Both are, at their core, essentially flawed human beings.

    Superman lost his parents before he had a chance to really remember them. He was brought up by the Kents who gave him a loving and fairly normal life. The best crutch one could really use when it comes to Superman is the whole failed messiah angle which Niciezca used in an interesting way in his two-part fill in issues.

    Silkypea, why would you say this thread should be locked?

    LibrarianThorne on
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Probably because his own thread was.

    Wildcat on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    As much as I'm kind of blah about Superman, I freaking loved Superboy. Conner... why did you leave us??

    It should have been Dick...

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I dunno, I liked this recent three parter in Action Comics where this alien auctioneer dude comes to Earth to acquire all of the cool stuff and the superheroes. It was right after Superman came back after the year off, and the other heroes were all like "Is that really you, Supes?" Seeing that he wasn't invincible and actually needed to work with other heroes to free everyone was great. That arc pretty much erased my ignorant views of Superman. Seeing him in JLA and JSA and Birthright and Kingdom Come sealed the deal for me.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Auctioneer returns with the "Third Kryptonian" arc in November.

    Bad Karma on
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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited September 2007
    Sentry wrote: »
    As much as I'm kind of blah about Superman, I freaking loved Superboy. Conner... why did you leave us??

    It should have been Dick...

    DC owns the rights to the name "Nightwing"

    Garlic Bread on
  • PantheraOncaPantheraOnca Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Keith wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    As much as I'm kind of blah about Superman, I freaking loved Superboy. Conner... why did you leave us??

    It should have been Dick...

    DC owns the rights to the name "Nightwing"

    Ha!

    PantheraOnca on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Bad Karma wrote: »
    Auctioneer returns with the "Third Kryptonian" arc in November.

    Oh shit, for reals? I might need to scrounge for an extra few dollars a month to catch that story arc.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • silkypeasilkypea Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    oh i wasn't meaning offense or anything... i guess i got in trouble for questioning authority but anyway i just didn't get why i couldn't make a topic asking a question when this was clearly a topic asking a question. once again no offence about this topic but i was just wondering... i hope i don't get in trouble again for defending myself

    silkypea on
    from the bottom of the bottle to the top of the throne
    doom the fuck tree
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I do like Superman. I just haven't read anything of note featuring him yet.

    DouglasDanger on
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    silkypea wrote: »
    oh i wasn't meaning offense or anything... i guess i got in trouble for questioning authority but anyway i just didn't get why i couldn't make a topic asking a question when this was clearly a topic asking a question. once again no offence about this topic but i was just wondering... i hope i don't get in trouble again for defending myself

    This is a discussion topic.
    Yours was a straight question, with a definite answer.

    Me Too! on
  • silkypeasilkypea Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ok i can't see the difference but i'll join this discussion because it's interesting. I hated Superman until I read Superman: Red Son. After that I thought ok any character can be good with a good writer. Then All Star Superman happened. I fucking love that book and I've slowly realized Superman is pretty cool. I just don't like to say it. So as far as any good books featuring superman. Red Son, All Star, and I hear For All Seasons was good.

    silkypea on
    from the bottom of the bottle to the top of the throne
    doom the fuck tree
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    In a discussion thread, there's no clear cut, right/wrong answer. It's for people to talk about a specific subject.
    You were looking for a way to find a comic shop online, if I remember right. That's pretty much got 1 answer. That needs to go in the question thread.

    TheMoreYouKnow.jpg

    Me Too! on
  • LibrarianThorneLibrarianThorne Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    wwtMask wrote: »
    I dunno, I liked this recent three parter in Action Comics where this alien auctioneer dude comes to Earth to acquire all of the cool stuff and the superheroes. It was right after Superman came back after the year off, and the other heroes were all like "Is that really you, Supes?" Seeing that he wasn't invincible and actually needed to work with other heroes to free everyone was great. That arc pretty much erased my ignorant views of Superman. Seeing him in JLA and JSA and Birthright and Kingdom Come sealed the deal for me.

    Yeah, the Auctioneer was created by Fabian Niciezca (of Thunderbolts and Cable/Deadpool fame), and I'm totally with you on the Auctioneer arc. So fantastic. Niciezca (without Busiek) wrote a 2 part arc in Superman that dealt with Superman having to confront this like, really religious 18 year old kid who had manifested powers that waxed and waned depending on how much people believed in him. THe kid kept messing things up because of his beliefs, and Superman debated (with great monologues) about his own religion and how important this kid was to this missionary community.

    Douglas, read Kingdom Come and Superman: For All Seasons. You won't regret it.

    LibrarianThorne on
  • silkypeasilkypea Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Actually my question was what people thought of the comic industry lately. It's a discussion whether they think things are just fine, have gone down hill. Comparing why or why not. I see tons of discussion. I didn't ask about an online comic shop at all.

    silkypea on
    from the bottom of the bottle to the top of the throne
    doom the fuck tree
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I dig good superman stories, and the character can be pulled off really well. However, I wish Martian Manhunter would have more attention in the comics. Give me a Jeph Loeb/Tim Sale MM miniseries, or Morrison, Millar, or Dini.

    I think MM is just an improved take on the Superman character:

    Yes, his entire race is dead, however he lived half of his life with them and can miss them and had a family, kids, and friends that died in it.

    Yes, he lives as an outsider on a strange planet, however, he came here as an adult, and looks like a fucking cricket. Supes grew up here, he has Smallville. He looks like a dude, a handsome one at that, and apparently has the right number of chromosomes to knock up an earth-chick.

    Yeah, he really only has one weakness, but it is open flame, not an extremely rare (but abundant among his enemies) space-rock. I also found Kryptonite being so toxic to Supes real entertaining. It would be like if granite were called "Earthite" and anytime it was near a person, it would kill him instantly.

    I like that the manhunter can shapeshift, but don't care much for when he turns into a freaking space dragon and shit.

    The New Frontier's story that followed MM was great.

    So, I like Supes when done well, but prefer MM as he is a similar and, in my opinion, better character.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • PantheraOncaPantheraOnca Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I also found Kryptonite being so toxic to Supes real entertaining. It would be like if granite were called "Earthite" and anytime it was near a person, it would kill him instantly.

    Yeah. I always wondered about that.

    I've come to the conclusion that a red sunlight eliminates kryptonite's effects on kryptonians. Its the only possible explaination.


    ... Just like yellow sunlight eliminates graphites effects on us.

    (Blacklit clubs with granite floors are a tragedy waiting to happen)

    PantheraOnca on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Wildcat wrote: »
    Probably because his own thread was.

    Also, people on the ass end of an ass kicking in threads always state their view and go "GOD THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE LOCKED".

    The Muffin Man on
  • AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    so i picked up for tommorow, birthright, for all seasons.

    birthright and for all seasons are awesome. for tommorow is merely alright.

    birthright is canon right?

    Angry on
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I also found Kryptonite being so toxic to Supes real entertaining. It would be like if granite were called "Earthite" and anytime it was near a person, it would kill him instantly.

    Yeah. I always wondered about that.

    I've come to the conclusion that a red sunlight eliminates kryptonite's effects on kryptonians. Its the only possible explaination.


    ... Just like yellow sunlight eliminates graphites effects on us.

    (Blacklit clubs with granite floors are a tragedy waiting to happen)

    Kryptonite was irradiated when the planet exploded. For some reason that radiation is far more toxic to him then it is to regular humans. Maybe it has something to do with him absorbing radiation more or something.

    Bloods End on
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