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[WoW] Mages: the worst part comes AFTER you're sheeped

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Posts

  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I'm shooting up through Arcane for Imp. Arcane Missile, Arcane Concentration, and Arcane Meditation. After that I'll take my pick of Fire or Frost, because honestly, they're both pretty equal for solo PvE.

    What I wouldn't do is spec Frost before you have enough points for Shatter. But that's just my opinion.

    OremLK on
    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
  • TheEmergedTheEmerged Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    How does one spec to level a mage? Is leveling frost viable, or should I go fire pew pew?

    /points higher on this page
    TheEmerged wrote:
    As I've mentioned before in this thread, here is my advice for leveling as high-frost. If you want an Arcane/Frost build, I'd recommend taking the arcane talents first.

    If I were starting over on a new server, I might be tempted to start Arc/Fire until 39th level, and then switch to full-frost at 40 for Ice Barrier. The difference as a frost mage before & after that talent is almost as stark as a hunter before/after getting their pet.

    Leveling as pure frost is perfectly viable, mind, I'm not saying *not* to do it. I said I'd be tempted to level with a planned respec, not that I would... :P

    TheEmerged on
    Sometimes, the knights are the monsters
  • kaleeditykaleedity Sometimes science is more art than science Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    This is merely my 2c: I'm not disagreeing with anything said above.

    Improved blizzard is made of win for leveling.

    I only say this after going from 40 to 66 in a few days recently, comparing soloing and aoeing with respecs in between.

    I was never fire, but I happened to level the fastest as 100% frost. May have just have been a coincidence. Shatter wasn't a focus in my build; I didn't start putting points in it until much later. Post-60 later.

    Hell, you can aoe any melee group pretty easily. Combining aoeing and questing is pretty hard to argue with. I personally like aoeing because it feels a lot more dynamic than bolting single mobs to death. If you want something simple, do something else. Nothing wrong with that.

    mage aoe 101 ala kaleedity:
    Get improved blizzard and permafrost. Pretty much all other talents are optional. Frostbite may actually hinder aoeing. Aoeing before improved blizzard might be too difficult to be worth it.

    #1: Run around and gather mobs. These mobs need to be melee based mobs. Mobs that do not heal or use annoying as hell instant spells are preferred. There are guides to find big groups of these types of mobs for like every level.

    #1.5: Stack all the mobs on each other. This can be done in a few different ways. Generally, this becomes easy once you know how mobs behave when they follow you. Note that you apparently cannot be dazed while shielded -- ice barrier while mounted makes this step pretty simple.

    [note that other guides might do something different at this point, this is what I do:]
    #2: frost nova; move away from the mobs until frost nova's global cooldown is up

    #3: Cast blizzard. Make sure the circle is as close to you as possible while hitting all the rooted mobs. Frost nova should not break early randomly. Frost nova will naturally break with a second or two left on your blizzard. While blizzarding, keep track of mobs that might've dodged some of your blizzard and/or mobs around you that you didn't pull.

    #4: Blink in a direction that won't aggro anything else that puts you as far away from your mobs as possible.

    #5: Before the improved blizzard snare wears off, use Blizzard twice. Catch as many as possible.

    #6: Cleanup. I frequently wand once to finish one ~1% mob off at this point.

    Voila, up to 12 dead mobs.

    As you gain levels, aoeing becomes easier. Frost elemental gives you extra frost novas, and cold snap gives you more. Frost barrier/mounts/epic mounts make the process simple. You should be able to do this without ever dying. You will probably die a few times at first, but once you learn it, it's pretty easy.

    kaleedity on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I require addon/macro advice.

    Right now I'm level 22, so stuff specific to raiding isn't strictly necessary, but whatever's important.

    Salvation122 on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    still pick up a threatmeter (although you probably have one)

    a polymorph focus macro is great for sheeping in instances. there's a great choice of these on the WoWWiki article "Useful macros for mages".

    basically the macro will set a target as your focus, then cast polymoprh. any subsequent presses of the key will cast polymoprh on the focus target, irrelevant of your current target, allowing you to resheep without changing your DPS target

    Dhalphir on
  • KathelganKathelgan Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    still pick up a threatmeter (although you probably have one)

    a polymorph focus macro is great for sheeping in instances. there's a great choice of these on the WoWWiki article "Useful macros for mages".

    basically the macro will set a target as your focus, then cast polymoprh. any subsequent presses of the key will cast polymoprh on the focus target, irrelevant of your current target, allowing you to resheep without changing your DPS target

    I was actually just going to ask for a focus macro.

    I've been reading this thread for a LONG time, and never posted anything. I guess I'll give it a whirl.

    Started this mage a while ago, and I'm just wondering if I'm headed in the right direction.

    I plan on finishing with this build. Is there any holes I should be filling in instead?

    I know eventually I'll be going fire. I hate the idea, but it'll happen.

    I'd love to hear the input.

    Kathelgan on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I got a two week break before my final quarter of school so I resubbed, I've still got the juice.

    I love battlegrounds so much as a scorch mage, even dying is fun, especially versus Shaman and Rogues because traditionally those are the two classes that will fuck us up but between:

    Blast Wave
    Dbreath
    Nova
    CS

    You can seriously screw with them, I kited a rogue from BET to FR, it was classic.

    But man, I've not seriously played since probably August of 07 and I was still topping the charts, then I did a Heroic Bot and lead the DM by 8% with no deaths.

    I got my welfare epics today (lolz), I got the Season 2 chest to go with my legitimately (ie, I actually did arena) obtained shoulders.

    I could have sprung for the gloves (which have the sexy 5 yard buff), but the new epic belt is flat out awesome and a major upgrade from my shitty Inferno Waste Cord.

    Jasconius on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I imagine as a Scorch mage you'd take 5/5 Impact rather than Imp Fireball?

    Dhalphir on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I imagine as a Scorch mage you'd take 5/5 Impact rather than Imp Fireball?

    Basically

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Muradin&n=Jasconius

    I have been running that basic config since very early after I started running Karazhan. That was pre Fireball un-nerfing.

    Oh holy shit, I just noticed that Molten Shields talent, I will need to move the Burning Soul points to that... wow.

    But uhh, mathematically speaking I hear that Imp Fireball actually can be better but I like Scorch for several reasons.

    1) It's way more versatile for PVP/PVE cross-play.

    2) Shorter cast times facilitate mobility when necessary in raids, which can bridge that DPS gap between fireballers who have to interrupt 3 second casts instead of 1.5.

    3) IIRC it's still undeniably more mana efficient than Fireball which is good for those longer encounters. Any shorter encounters can be evened up with Fire Blast in the correct interval.

    4) Way more stun procs

    5) 4% extra crit for PVP

    6) Far easier to manage aggro with small scorch pecks rather than massive fireball nukes.

    7) 5 stack scorch comes naturally rather than being a chore and it also is natural in PVP which makes a big difference. Molten Fury + 3-5 stack Scorch makes for one big fucking Fire Blast crit to finish off that warrior. I have Fireblast crit well into the 3k's when the stars align as such, not even counting Ignite damage.

    I would compare the dichotomy between Fireball and Scorch to an automatic transmission versus a manual transmission respectively, a manual takes more work but in the proper hands it can be superior.

    Jasconius on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    That spec fucking rules on my blood elf in PvP, all that shit you were talking about + BE silence, I absolutley loved it. I couldn't play it in PvE though and always stuck w/ 10/43/3.

    Dbreath + Imp Silence + BE Silence = lol can't cast shit, sometimes Dbreath would refresh before they could cast something again, too.

    Mgcw on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    mm it does however depend on your gear level

    early tier 4 and 5 you could get away with it. late tier 5, Arcane is superior to deep Fire no matter what Fire spec you go, because of two-piece tier 5, and come four-piece t6, deep Fire using Fireball blows anything else away

    Dhalphir on
  • DaeanDaean Registered User new member
    edited June 2008
    I'm not even raiding! I'm leveling!

    Also I almost prefer rounding up 20 mobs for AOE grinding than doing some quests that take hours to do.

    That can be a nuisance, well at least for my frosty, finding the good spots are one thing, though if you work with another frosty or even a warlock, it's hell of a lot easier.
    But it's true, AOE-grind really levels you nicely, if you find the good spots and manage to gather up zillion mobs
    Can't remember what was the mage-killer class in PVP.. must've been rogue

    Daean on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    mm it does however depend on your gear level

    early tier 4 and 5 you could get away with it. late tier 5, Arcane is superior to deep Fire no matter what Fire spec you go, because of two-piece tier 5, and come four-piece t6, deep Fire using Fireball blows anything else away

    This paragraph just reminds me of how glad I am I did not push into T5 and beyond.

    Mage class design is in constant limbo.

    Blizzard: We have redone the talents to make all trees fairly even if you know how to ball!

    Players: Yay!

    Blizzard: Also, we've made basically all of the class sets biased towards one tree or another, lol! Oh, and your helmets will STILL clip through your hair.

    Players: Wait... what?

    Blizzard: *Struts backwards with middle fingers raised*

    Jasconius on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So, anyone got tips to improve my damage as Fire spec?

    This is my toon.

    So far, for me, it's basically "Scorch x5, Fireball. Reapply Scorch as necessary" and I've actually slumped in DPS. Any tips? Maybe I should go back to Frost which I knew (and was easily inching towards 1000DPS in Kara)?

    The Muffin Man on
  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Surprised nobody seems to be talking about this, unless I missed it.
    Quote from: Blizzard (Source)
    Mage

    * Frost Armor, Ice Armor, Mage Armor, and Molten Armor are no longer Magic effects and cannot be dispelled.


    Warlock

    * Demon Skin, Demon Armor, and Fel Armor are no longer Magic effects and cannot be dispelled.

    Grundlestiltskin on
    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    As a rogue/priest all I can say is D:

    Scroffus on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So, anyone got tips to improve my damage as Fire spec?

    This is my toon.

    So far, for me, it's basically "Scorch x5, Fireball. Reapply Scorch as necessary" and I've actually slumped in DPS. Any tips? Maybe I should go back to Frost which I knew (and was easily inching towards 1000DPS in Kara)?

    You are missing a chunk of hit, your hit rating should be 164 (edit: This should equal 13% hit, if you are constantly with an elemental shaman and always in range of his totem you can cheat on this), you can get away with less as frost because I believe elemental precision still has an additional 3% phantom hit rating that it gives to frost.

    Also, since the S4 pendants are out now, pvp for the Guardian's Pendant of Subjucation (or however its spelled), as its pretty close to best in slot until sunwell (depending on gear the pendant from hyjal trash can be better).

    Nobody on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Surprised nobody seems to be talking about this, unless I missed it.
    Quote from: Blizzard (Source)
    Mage

    * Frost Armor, Ice Armor, Mage Armor, and Molten Armor are no longer Magic effects and cannot be dispelled.


    Warlock

    * Demon Skin, Demon Armor, and Fel Armor are no longer Magic effects and cannot be dispelled.

    It's about time. That's been on my list since Arcane Shot was given the ability to remove magic effects.

    Jasconius on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Nobody wrote: »
    So, anyone got tips to improve my damage as Fire spec?

    This is my toon.

    So far, for me, it's basically "Scorch x5, Fireball. Reapply Scorch as necessary" and I've actually slumped in DPS. Any tips? Maybe I should go back to Frost which I knew (and was easily inching towards 1000DPS in Kara)?

    You are missing a chunk of hit, your hit rating should be 164 (edit: This should equal 13% hit, if you are constantly with an elemental shaman and always in range of his totem you can cheat on this), you can get away with less as frost because I believe elemental precision still has an additional 3% phantom hit rating that it gives to frost.

    Also, since the S4 pendants are out now, pvp for the Guardian's Pendant of Subjucation (or however its spelled), as its pretty close to best in slot until sunwell (depending on gear the pendant from hyjal trash can be better).
    I had the 164 hit, it's the new gloves that change that. And yes, I constantly run with an Elemental shaman.

    Even still, I'm thinking of forsaking the 12 Stam and the blue slot for another Great Dawnstone.

    The Muffin Man on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Nobody wrote: »
    So, anyone got tips to improve my damage as Fire spec?

    This is my toon.

    So far, for me, it's basically "Scorch x5, Fireball. Reapply Scorch as necessary" and I've actually slumped in DPS. Any tips? Maybe I should go back to Frost which I knew (and was easily inching towards 1000DPS in Kara)?

    You are missing a chunk of hit, your hit rating should be 164 (edit: This should equal 13% hit, if you are constantly with an elemental shaman and always in range of his totem you can cheat on this), you can get away with less as frost because I believe elemental precision still has an additional 3% phantom hit rating that it gives to frost.

    Also, since the S4 pendants are out now, pvp for the Guardian's Pendant of Subjucation (or however its spelled), as its pretty close to best in slot until sunwell (depending on gear the pendant from hyjal trash can be better).
    I had the 164 hit, it's the new gloves that change that. And yes, I constantly run with an Elemental shaman.

    Even still, I'm thinking of forsaking the 12 Stam and the blue slot for another Great Dawnstone.

    My bad, thought your gear hadn't changed.

    Anyway, you said in hope/hate it was on VR and you were having to reapply scorch alot. That'll do it right there, but were you also constantly dodging orbs? I find my dps on the fight depends alot on how much I have to move because of how often he'll target me/people near me.

    Nobody on
  • douglydougly Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Void Reaver is a terrible fight to try to judge DPS on. Too many variables.

    dougly on
    puffin.png
  • kaleeditykaleedity Sometimes science is more art than science Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    If you're looking at damage as a solo mage on trash, you might want to consider giving up scorch sometimes on measly targets. Then again, trash dps rarely matters. A quick scorch->fireblast on mobs that are about to die can make your trash meter happier if you care about that.

    In longer fights, time your evocations and icy veins such that you blow evocation just as IV is just about to fade. Never spend time not casting. Fireblast when you have to dodge something. You might want to consider taking 2/2 arcane subtlety whenever you respec so you can be a bit more reckless on spamming AE.

    You're at the point where you can't really decide how to seriously improve your gear unless you get obvious upgrades.
    other than grabbing one of these for every helm you ever use until a better meta comes out. It's just vastly superior to everything.

    Instead, focus on doing little things you can do to improve your output. Run some tests against Dr. Boom or whatever, see what works for you. Insure yourself that you're spending 100% of your time casting, and whatnot. Cast scorch as infrequently as possible -- it's terrible dps besides the debuff. Obvious things, I know, but there are tons of people that don't know too much. I'm just spewing everything I know.

    If you don't group with many mages, you could probably consider going arcane and making pacts with druids for their juicy innervates. If you can cast arcane blast continuously without running out of mana, you win, pretty much. Being the only fire mage seems like it'd suck.

    kaleedity on
  • ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Surprised nobody seems to be talking about this, unless I missed it.
    Quote from: Blizzard (Source)
    Mage

    * Frost Armor, Ice Armor, Mage Armor, and Molten Armor are no longer Magic effects and cannot be dispelled.


    Warlock

    * Demon Skin, Demon Armor, and Fel Armor are no longer Magic effects and cannot be dispelled.

    It's about time. That's been on my list since Arcane Shot was given the ability to remove magic effects.

    I hope they do the same for Inner Fire when WotlK rolls around and it gains a useful selfbuff. Handy for mages and locks, I loved dispelling fel armor from locks to make them that much easier to pop (lol drainlife spam).

    Arrath on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    dougly wrote: »
    Void Reaver is a terrible fight to try to judge DPS on. Too many variables.
    Yeah I'm gonna grab a Damage meter readout from a buddy on a stable fight where I'm not stopping for anything, i.e Attumen or Prince.

    As for Trash: If I'm alone, I'll Scorch it once, maybe twice, and fireball away.
    If I have another Firemage, I'll use it twice and Fireball, and hopefully they'll pick up and use 2 Scorches too.

    My spell hit rating now is 160. I'm 5 points off, but with my crit chance, that might not make a huge difference. Still gonna attempt to bridge the gap...Probably slip a Great Dawnstone into my Aldor shoulders, capping me at 168. Rather be 3 over than 5 under, really. Cost me all of 30g. Less if we have any in the guild bank.

    Also, I'll definitely look for a Chaotic Earthstorm Diamond. Right now I only have Swift Earthstorm because...well...it's all I could get, really.

    The Muffin Man on
  • JimJimBinksJimJimBinks Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I just took a break from my 70 Rogue, and I've been playing and loving my mage, who I'd originally stopped playing at level 22. He's up to 26 today but all my talent points have been going into Arcane. I need to respec tonight to something better for grinding.

    JimJimBinks on
    steam_sig.png
  • HabidaccusHabidaccus Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Okay...so yet another cry for mage aid.

    My guild only managed to get as far as Kara because we never had the numbers to move on to Mags/Gruuls, so my mage has been stagnating for quite some time. However, rolling into Kara I had the entire FSW, followed shortly thereafter by the Spellstrike set. Traditionally hovered around 1st/2nd in dps, averaging around 1100 as full frost, and was also probably 10 points short of the hit cap going in. Here's my char, but replace those trial fire trousers with the Spellstrike Pants with a Potent Noble Topaz(+4 crit, +5 dmg), Veiled Noble Topaz(+4 hit, +5 dmg) and Glowing Nightseye(+5 dmg, +6 Stam).

    I was specced deep frost 0/0/61, so I could do OK in PvP and AoE grind if I needed to, but I'm well aware that I may have tweaked my spec a bit to up my raid performance. The chances that my guild will ever get the numbers to run the higher end stuff without pugging is next to none, so in the meantime I looked towards the new QD badge loot for upgrades. What would you guys recommend I go for? I like the idea of adding haste to my stats, but the +hit is a delicate thing. Though, I believe I may have a few alternative pieces to replace whatever I may lose.

    Of course, a respec to fire would be something to consider as well, but a huge chunk of +dmg comes from the Frozen Shadoweave set, which I am reluctant to discard. Any feedback is appreciated:-)

    EDIT: Armory link HERE

    Habidaccus on
    "Just Meade, thank you."
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "A Rogue snuck up behind me once while I was questing on my mage in Un'Goro Crater. He stunned me, and started swingin' and slashin' and prickin' and all that jazz, but eventually that stun wore off and I was able to distance myself from him long enough to pop a heal, and pop him. "
    -Tumedeous, Forsaken Death Knight, Aegwynn
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    buy the badge offhand and the new badge weapon (Scryer's Blade of Focus).

    Dhalphir on
  • Bear CavalryBear Cavalry Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Could someone recommend me a frost talent spec for leveling? Can't really tell what's good and don't trust the official wow boards.

    Bear Cavalry on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Could someone recommend me a frost talent spec for leveling? Can't really tell what's good and don't trust the official wow boards.
    My current build is pretty frost-friendly for leveling. Start with Imp. Frostbolt, and get Frostbite and Shatter ASAP. From there its pretty obvious *extra damage, range, lowered cooldowns, etc.)

    Permafrost might be good for early leveling, too.

    EDIT: Durp, my armory link.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Farstriders&n=Jyodi

    The Muffin Man on
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Rizzi on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Rizzi wrote: »

    Yes, but there's no reason not to take Icy Veins for 1 point, even if just to use it every 3 minutes to speed up grinding.

    Zek on
  • Bear CavalryBear Cavalry Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Could someone recommend me a frost talent spec for leveling? Can't really tell what's good and don't trust the official wow boards.
    My current build is pretty frost-friendly for leveling. Start with Imp. Frostbolt, and get Frostbite and Shatter ASAP. From there its pretty obvious *extra damage, range, lowered cooldowns, etc.)

    Permafrost might be good for early leveling, too.

    EDIT: Durp, my armory link.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Farstriders&n=Jyodi

    Thank you very much! :D

    Bear Cavalry on
  • langfor6langfor6 Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    So at level 45 I just figured out that Scorch is good.

    langfor6 on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    It's the most underrated spell in the entire game.

    Jasconius on
  • HabidaccusHabidaccus Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I long for fire...frost is great fun and all, but I need to branch out. But in the meantimes...

    Best head glyph enchant for PVP...any idea what it is and what faction?

    Habidaccus on
    "Just Meade, thank you."
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "A Rogue snuck up behind me once while I was questing on my mage in Un'Goro Crater. He stunned me, and started swingin' and slashin' and prickin' and all that jazz, but eventually that stun wore off and I was able to distance myself from him long enough to pop a heal, and pop him. "
    -Tumedeous, Forsaken Death Knight, Aegwynn
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Habidaccus wrote: »
    I long for fire...frost is great fun and all, but I need to branch out. But in the meantimes...

    Best head glyph enchant for PVP...any idea what it is and what faction?

    Probably the SSO one, which is stam/resil. The only other relevant enchant is the sha'tar spell dmg/hit.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Yea the SSO one untill you can get to about 300 resi and 10k hp then move to the offensive spell damage one.

    Scroffus on
  • FugaFuga Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    langfor6 wrote: »
    So at level 45 I just figured out that Scorch is good.

    How? I'm fire spec and lvl 24, and i'd rather be casting fireballs ...

    Fuga on
  • douglydougly Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jasconius wrote: »
    It's the most underrated spell in the entire game.

    How so?

    dougly on
    puffin.png
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Sooo human arcane mages are going to be hilarious in wotlk if they don't nerf Human Spirit. +30% spirit with kings, 15% of which counts for crit rating? yes plz.

    edit: also disc + arcane is going to be a fucking monster 2v2 group.

    Mgcw on
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