The Good Ending, Little Sister Savior, Medium Difficulty. Honestly, I can't imagine harvesting makes it much easier, I had like 480 unspent ADAM when I went up the elevator to Fontaine. And the fight at the end was a bit easy; I'm surprised that he fell for Target Dummy. It turned the final battle into Dummy > Unload Buckshot > Dummy > Reload > Unload > Repeat.
Seriously. I used one Health Pack (stupid Security Bot) and maybe 3 Eve Hypos. Ah well. Overall, a very entertaining game. I'll start up a Hard runthrough for the missing Achievements and Harvest ending later.
I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions so far.
How do you guys thing the city was build in the first place? Quite an engineering feat by any standards. Do you think it was mostly assembled above ground and then lowered into the sea? Maybe it was built on a big raft type structure out on the ocean, and then the supporting raft was removed. If i recall correctly, it said in one of the audio that the city is 6 miles under the sea, i doubt a place like that could have been built underwater (consider all the pressure). Also, ADAM wasn't available at the time of constriction, so no crazy plasmids.
P.S. in the opening video you can see Rapture in all its grandeur and surface scrapers (yes i just coined that, I believe), i wish you could have gotten more of a chance to get a feel of the city as a whole.
I'm not sure how they built it. Depending on how deep it is, it would either be prohibitively expensive and impractical to build, or flat-out impossible.
I'm not sure how they built it. Depending on how deep it is, it would either be prohibitively expensive and impractical to build, or flat-out impossible.
This is science fiction. No more impossible than a fully self sufficient space station is.
I'm not sure how they built it. Depending on how deep it is, it would either be prohibitively expensive and impractical to build, or flat-out impossible.
This is science fiction. No more impossible than a fully self sufficient space station is.
Well, of course. Though ironically a self-sustaining space station would be easier to build than a self-sustaining underwater colony, believe it or not.
What I consider likely is that Ryan had "construction submarines" (i.e., subs built to take groups of men down and support construction operations) built, and underwater versions of construction equipment tailor made, and sent hundreds of men down in submarines and diving gear, and they just started building. The most implausible bit of Rapture's engineering is all the glass windows- Ryan would need some kind of superglass to pull that off. Plus a whole fleet of surface ships.
Naturally, of course, the city's design is fantastic artistically and doesn't need to be remotely plausible.
I'm not sure how they built it. Depending on how deep it is, it would either be prohibitively expensive and impractical to build, or flat-out impossible.
Before being spoiler ridden, if you have a problem to the degree I compare it to System Shock 2 but have never played System Shock 2 what the hell kind of damn fool are you? You obviously have no insight on the subject and have both nothing to contribute on that point nor any grounds to attack my comparison seeing as you never played the other game. The only reason you would want to attack be is because waah waah waah he doesn't love Bioshock like I do. And that is where I will accept some blame, as maybe I've come off like I don't like Bioshock. I do. It is just a bit dissapointing to see all the time between Shock 2 and Bioshock go into a few specific areas while nothing was done to the plot to really make this game a slam dunk. Shock 2 took a turn for the sucking ass for the last 30 mintues of the game in the Body of the Many, but the flaws in Bioshock make the same transition - the "after Ryan" point - come sooner, even if the decline in quality is much more gradual.
The thing about "after ryan" is that unlike Shock 2 the level design and gorgeous graphics pretty much stay on par, so the game is still fun. Not so in Shock 2. The problems, for me, are all plot driven. See, before Ryan Bioshock gave the player a lot to think about. There was a consistent quality to the game world that made you really wonder about Rapture, the people that came here, the people that were left, and what was really going on. After Ryan - you shoot some stuff until the game is over.
I like Bioshock. Great game. 8/10. But System Shock 2 was/is an 8.5/9, and I like it when my "sequels" excel over their predecessors, not feel like best of compilations with new art.
Also, Big Daddies and Little Sisters were a bit of a downer from a plot perspective as their inherent conflict OMG LITTLE GIRLS was only brought up three times.
So I got the bad ending. It ranks up with Invisible War with "stupid endings to video games" in my books. Not only was it short, it was really over the top.
I've yet to start a new game and reevaluate the start of Bioshock with the perspective of the secret, but I find the idea of giving the character motivations unknown to the player that just happen to coincide with the linear path through the game to be really trite and manipulative. It pulls you out of the experience, as its not your experience any more - its the bastard kid of Ryans experience you get to pilot for some reason. I asked right off the top "why am I doing all this dumb shit", more importantly "why the fuck did I find a needle on the ground and jab it in my arm?" and the answer is I didn't have a choice but I just didn't know it.
I play games to have choice, to make choices, to interact with the game space. The FPS genre is a very intimate experience - you are seeing things directly - and creates an expectation of intimacy with the experience. In an adventure game I don't mind when Solid Snake goes off and does some dumb shit in a cutscene as those games are about moving from cutscene to cutscene. In a game like this I usually have more control of the experience, that while a linear progression through levels I control how to interface with that experience.
The "Would you kindly" plot point just fucks with that and that was annoying to me.
The game also posesses an obnoxious degree of spawning splicers in to places you've just looked. Unless there was some "air duct" or other logical back door mechanic at work that I missed, I find that really ruins the suspension of disbelief in a game. You can use it a little bit - especially in open corridors to simulate wandering traffic - but they overused it. I was just in the Eugenics lab and cleared a room, converted a turrent, and as soon as I left the fucking turret goes off because some idiots spawned in behind me. That is just crap design.
The "sleeping splicers" gimmick is only slightly better, but was again overused. And the sharp ramp in difficulty - especially on leadhead splicers - was really obnoxous. I switched to freeze-shotgun to compensate, but I disliked how arbitrary it felt. The game really needed a new enemy to show up at that point instead of arbitrarily ganking things you've been fighting all game.
Other things I didn't like: the inability to review your plasmids outside of stupid vending machines. I could accept not being able to change them (but why then can I change them when I pick one up?) but please let me SEE them. The similar inability to know at a glance what research you have done. And, the ridiculous overabundance of vending machines - there was one in Fontaines apartment for christs sakes.
I liked how hacking varied in difficulty - safes gave me a really hard time mid game - but the overabundance of autohack tools really triviailized that. On medium, 10-15% of shit should be left behind as unhackable. It gives you a feeling of curiosity and reminds you that you are not superhuman. I've not played Shock 2 in a long time, but I remember being REALLY cautious about what I used autohacks on.
The last point can only be to go back and say that while I loved the aesthetic, the Von Braun was a more believeable space than Rapture. Neither was perfect, but Rapture felt more like a game than the Von Braun. Stuff was put places - notably turrets - with the goal to specifically fuck with you rather than feel like it was fucking with everyone, you just happened to come along.
Great game. HIGHLY recommended. But interesting in how it didn't improve on Shock 2, and interesting in how it didn't carry its fantastic opening though to the mid/end game. I still have problems with the opening but I need to play it again to see how hindsight clears things up.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited September 2007
I may have imagined this, but I'm pretty sure a lot of the times I saw a turret, there was actually a splicer there fiddling with it, somewhat implying that they are, in fact, put there specifically to fuck with you.
If when you meet the first Little Sister, Atlus uses the 'Would you kindly...' command to make you harvest her, then leaves you to it assuming you have done.
But instead, the game still gives you the choice of rescuing or harvesting. If you rescue all the Little Sisters up to Ryan, then you're able to overcome the mind control therapy and stop being a slave, and not finish off Ryan with the golf club.
After that, the game would truly be different depending on whether you took the 'good' or 'bad' path, instead of just one crappy path.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
I may have imagined this, but I'm pretty sure a lot of the times I saw a turret, there was actually a splicer there fiddling with it, somewhat implying that they are, in fact, put there specifically to fuck with you.
There's a scripted sequence for that. It's in one of the glass tubes overlooking the sea bed. You go through it with no turret and when you come back there's a splicer there setting one up.
What kind of confused me is who had ultimate control of the security system in Rapture.
Like, in the beginning, the first camera and bots you see go after that splicer but not you. At that point is appears that Atlas is in control. After that Ryan appears to be in control. Is it simply that you become an antagonist with regard to the security system after Ryan considers you an enemy? That still doesn't explain why the splicer gets jammed by that first security system. I am talking about the area where you pick up the wrench, right in the very beginning. I don't understand why it goes after him. Unhacked security cameras don't go after ANYONE ELSE in the game.
I may have imagined this, but I'm pretty sure a lot of the times I saw a turret, there was actually a splicer there fiddling with it, somewhat implying that they are, in fact, put there specifically to fuck with you.
There's a scripted sequence for that. It's in one of the glass tubes overlooking the sea bed. You go through it with no turret and when you come back there's a splicer there setting one up.
What kind of confused me is who had ultimate control of the security system in Rapture.
Like, in the beginning, the first camera and bots you see go after that splicer but not you. At that point is appears that Atlas is in control. After that Ryan appears to be in control. Is it simply that you become an antagonist with regard to the security system after Ryan considers you an enemy? That still doesn't explain why the splicer gets jammed by that first security system. I am talking about the area where you pick up the wrench, right in the very beginning. I don't understand why it goes after him. Unhacked security cameras don't go after ANYONE ELSE in the game.
Yeah, that was another aspect of the plot that just lost me.
Fontaine says he chose you specifically because you're Ryan's son, so the security system wouldn't tear you up. But... the security system ONLY tears YOU up. Everyone else walks around free and clear. The bathysphere travel I understand, but the security made no sense.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I may have imagined this, but I'm pretty sure a lot of the times I saw a turret, there was actually a splicer there fiddling with it, somewhat implying that they are, in fact, put there specifically to fuck with you.
There's a scripted sequence for that. It's in one of the glass tubes overlooking the sea bed. You go through it with no turret and when you come back there's a splicer there setting one up.
What kind of confused me is who had ultimate control of the security system in Rapture.
Like, in the beginning, the first camera and bots you see go after that splicer but not you. At that point is appears that Atlas is in control. After that Ryan appears to be in control. Is it simply that you become an antagonist with regard to the security system after Ryan considers you an enemy? That still doesn't explain why the splicer gets jammed by that first security system. I am talking about the area where you pick up the wrench, right in the very beginning. I don't understand why it goes after him. Unhacked security cameras don't go after ANYONE ELSE in the game.
It was hacked though. If you look at the camera the lights were green. I suppose we are to presume poor Johnny hacked it, got jumped by Ms. Spider, lost his gun and then his intestines.
Before being spoiler ridden, if you have a problem to the degree I compare it to System Shock 2 but have never played System Shock 2 what the hell kind of damn fool are you? You obviously have no insight on the subject and have both nothing to contribute on that point nor any grounds to attack my comparison seeing as you never played the other game. The only reason you would want to attack be is because waah waah waah he doesn't love Bioshock like I do. And that is where I will accept some blame, as maybe I've come off like I don't like Bioshock. I do. It is just a bit dissapointing to see all the time between Shock 2 and Bioshock go into a few specific areas while nothing was done to the plot to really make this game a slam dunk. Shock 2 took a turn for the sucking ass for the last 30 mintues of the game in the Body of the Many, but the flaws in Bioshock make the same transition - the "after Ryan" point - come sooner, even if the decline in quality is much more gradual.
The thing about "after ryan" is that unlike Shock 2 the level design and gorgeous graphics pretty much stay on par, so the game is still fun. Not so in Shock 2. The problems, for me, are all plot driven. See, before Ryan Bioshock gave the player a lot to think about. There was a consistent quality to the game world that made you really wonder about Rapture, the people that came here, the people that were left, and what was really going on. After Ryan - you shoot some stuff until the game is over.
I like Bioshock. Great game. 8/10. But System Shock 2 was/is an 8.5/9, and I like it when my "sequels" excel over their predecessors, not feel like best of compilations with new art.
Also, Big Daddies and Little Sisters were a bit of a downer from a plot perspective as their inherent conflict OMG LITTLE GIRLS was only brought up three times.
So I got the bad ending. It ranks up with Invisible War with "stupid endings to video games" in my books. Not only was it short, it was really over the top.
I've yet to start a new game and reevaluate the start of Bioshock with the perspective of the secret, but I find the idea of giving the character motivations unknown to the player that just happen to coincide with the linear path through the game to be really trite and manipulative. It pulls you out of the experience, as its not your experience any more - its the bastard kid of Ryans experience you get to pilot for some reason. I asked right off the top "why am I doing all this dumb shit", more importantly "why the fuck did I find a needle on the ground and jab it in my arm?" and the answer is I didn't have a choice but I just didn't know it.
I play games to have choice, to make choices, to interact with the game space. The FPS genre is a very intimate experience - you are seeing things directly - and creates an expectation of intimacy with the experience. In an adventure game I don't mind when Solid Snake goes off and does some dumb shit in a cutscene as those games are about moving from cutscene to cutscene. In a game like this I usually have more control of the experience, that while a linear progression through levels I control how to interface with that experience.
The "Would you kindly" plot point just fucks with that and that was annoying to me.
The game also posesses an obnoxious degree of spawning splicers in to places you've just looked. Unless there was some "air duct" or other logical back door mechanic at work that I missed, I find that really ruins the suspension of disbelief in a game. You can use it a little bit - especially in open corridors to simulate wandering traffic - but they overused it. I was just in the Eugenics lab and cleared a room, converted a turrent, and as soon as I left the fucking turret goes off because some idiots spawned in behind me. That is just crap design.
The "sleeping splicers" gimmick is only slightly better, but was again overused. And the sharp ramp in difficulty - especially on leadhead splicers - was really obnoxous. I switched to freeze-shotgun to compensate, but I disliked how arbitrary it felt. The game really needed a new enemy to show up at that point instead of arbitrarily ganking things you've been fighting all game.
Other things I didn't like: the inability to review your plasmids outside of stupid vending machines. I could accept not being able to change them (but why then can I change them when I pick one up?) but please let me SEE them. The similar inability to know at a glance what research you have done. And, the ridiculous overabundance of vending machines - there was one in Fontaines apartment for christs sakes.
I liked how hacking varied in difficulty - safes gave me a really hard time mid game - but the overabundance of autohack tools really triviailized that. On medium, 10-15% of shit should be left behind as unhackable. It gives you a feeling of curiosity and reminds you that you are not superhuman. I've not played Shock 2 in a long time, but I remember being REALLY cautious about what I used autohacks on.
The last point can only be to go back and say that while I loved the aesthetic, the Von Braun was a more believeable space than Rapture. Neither was perfect, but Rapture felt more like a game than the Von Braun. Stuff was put places - notably turrets - with the goal to specifically fuck with you rather than feel like it was fucking with everyone, you just happened to come along.
Great game. HIGHLY recommended. But interesting in how it didn't improve on Shock 2, and interesting in how it didn't carry its fantastic opening though to the mid/end game. I still have problems with the opening but I need to play it again to see how hindsight clears things up.
The twist in SS2 and BS are almost exactly the same but SS2 did it much better. For one, your main enemy remains your main enemy throughout the game, even after the reveal. The fact you're being subservient to a malevolent force is just something you take on the chin while you deal with the immediate threat. Both voices in your head are pricks, its just which one you're gonna take down first but after the reveal you still have a decent enemy thats been built up over the game to go hunt down and waste while the other one is being built up again along side the initial enemy.
In BS, your main antagonist pretty much springs from nowhere and our only reason to give a shit is because of the twist. Without it he'd be even more generic and uninteresting to hunt down. The entirety of BS builds to that twist and after that it has nowhere to go to.
Before being spoiler ridden, if you have a problem to the degree I compare it to System Shock 2 but have never played System Shock 2 what the hell kind of damn fool are you? You obviously have no insight on the subject and have both nothing to contribute on that point nor any grounds to attack my comparison seeing as you never played the other game. The only reason you would want to attack be is because waah waah waah he doesn't love Bioshock like I do. And that is where I will accept some blame, as maybe I've come off like I don't like Bioshock. I do. It is just a bit dissapointing to see all the time between Shock 2 and Bioshock go into a few specific areas while nothing was done to the plot to really make this game a slam dunk. Shock 2 took a turn for the sucking ass for the last 30 mintues of the game in the Body of the Many, but the flaws in Bioshock make the same transition - the "after Ryan" point - come sooner, even if the decline in quality is much more gradual.
The thing about "after ryan" is that unlike Shock 2 the level design and gorgeous graphics pretty much stay on par, so the game is still fun. Not so in Shock 2. The problems, for me, are all plot driven. See, before Ryan Bioshock gave the player a lot to think about. There was a consistent quality to the game world that made you really wonder about Rapture, the people that came here, the people that were left, and what was really going on. After Ryan - you shoot some stuff until the game is over.
I like Bioshock. Great game. 8/10. But System Shock 2 was/is an 8.5/9, and I like it when my "sequels" excel over their predecessors, not feel like best of compilations with new art.
Also, Big Daddies and Little Sisters were a bit of a downer from a plot perspective as their inherent conflict OMG LITTLE GIRLS was only brought up three times.
So I got the bad ending. It ranks up with Invisible War with "stupid endings to video games" in my books. Not only was it short, it was really over the top.
I've yet to start a new game and reevaluate the start of Bioshock with the perspective of the secret, but I find the idea of giving the character motivations unknown to the player that just happen to coincide with the linear path through the game to be really trite and manipulative. It pulls you out of the experience, as its not your experience any more - its the bastard kid of Ryans experience you get to pilot for some reason. I asked right off the top "why am I doing all this dumb shit", more importantly "why the fuck did I find a needle on the ground and jab it in my arm?" and the answer is I didn't have a choice but I just didn't know it.
I play games to have choice, to make choices, to interact with the game space. The FPS genre is a very intimate experience - you are seeing things directly - and creates an expectation of intimacy with the experience. In an adventure game I don't mind when Solid Snake goes off and does some dumb shit in a cutscene as those games are about moving from cutscene to cutscene. In a game like this I usually have more control of the experience, that while a linear progression through levels I control how to interface with that experience.
The "Would you kindly" plot point just fucks with that and that was annoying to me.
The game also posesses an obnoxious degree of spawning splicers in to places you've just looked. Unless there was some "air duct" or other logical back door mechanic at work that I missed, I find that really ruins the suspension of disbelief in a game. You can use it a little bit - especially in open corridors to simulate wandering traffic - but they overused it. I was just in the Eugenics lab and cleared a room, converted a turrent, and as soon as I left the fucking turret goes off because some idiots spawned in behind me. That is just crap design.
The "sleeping splicers" gimmick is only slightly better, but was again overused. And the sharp ramp in difficulty - especially on leadhead splicers - was really obnoxous. I switched to freeze-shotgun to compensate, but I disliked how arbitrary it felt. The game really needed a new enemy to show up at that point instead of arbitrarily ganking things you've been fighting all game.
Other things I didn't like: the inability to review your plasmids outside of stupid vending machines. I could accept not being able to change them (but why then can I change them when I pick one up?) but please let me SEE them. The similar inability to know at a glance what research you have done. And, the ridiculous overabundance of vending machines - there was one in Fontaines apartment for christs sakes.
I liked how hacking varied in difficulty - safes gave me a really hard time mid game - but the overabundance of autohack tools really triviailized that. On medium, 10-15% of shit should be left behind as unhackable. It gives you a feeling of curiosity and reminds you that you are not superhuman. I've not played Shock 2 in a long time, but I remember being REALLY cautious about what I used autohacks on.
The last point can only be to go back and say that while I loved the aesthetic, the Von Braun was a more believeable space than Rapture. Neither was perfect, but Rapture felt more like a game than the Von Braun. Stuff was put places - notably turrets - with the goal to specifically fuck with you rather than feel like it was fucking with everyone, you just happened to come along.
Great game. HIGHLY recommended. But interesting in how it didn't improve on Shock 2, and interesting in how it didn't carry its fantastic opening though to the mid/end game. I still have problems with the opening but I need to play it again to see how hindsight clears things up.
The twist in SS2 and BS are almost exactly the same but SS2 did it much better. For one, your main enemy remains your main enemy throughout the game, even after the reveal. The fact you're being subservient to a malevolent force is just something you take on the chin while you deal with the immediate threat. Both voices in your head are pricks, its just which one you're gonna take down first but after the reveal you still have a decent enemy thats been built up over the game to go hunt down and waste while the other one is being built up again along side the initial enemy.
In BS, your main antagonist pretty much springs from nowhere and our only reason to give a shit is because of the twist. Without it he'd be even more generic and uninteresting to hunt down. The entirety of BS builds to that twist and after that it has nowhere to go to.
SS2 for the win.
As far as comparing both game's twist,
I would compare the Atlas = Fontaine more with the endgame of SS2, rather than with each other. After Shodan reveals herself, she lays it all down: She doesn't like you, you don't like her, but you both have to work together to stop The Many from taking over. Once you do just that, she comes back with "Thank you. Truce over, ha-ha-hacker. Die.". Which is exactly what Fontaine does. He comes on, thanks you for helping, and tells you to kiss your ass goodbye.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I've replayed the opening. I am still rather unhappy with the idea of finding hypodermic needles and oh of course lets just jab it into my arm. The game would have been a lot better if Atlas had chatted you up a lot more of the top and explained some of the basics. Sure, without the plasmid I can't advance. That doesn't mean I'm going to jab unexplained shit into my arm. Atlas should have told us what it was and what to do with it.
Also, the whole conceit of the plane crash is a little off the wall. And it doesn't seem explained what our character was doing on the surface, or on that exact plane that got to that exact place.
apotheos on
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
edited September 2007
It would've been fixed simply had it done this.
*You encounter door with broken panel*
Atlas: You will need something to open this. Look around, perhaps?
*You look around, come across plasmid machine*
Atlas: Ah, this will help. We're running low on time, would you kindly inject yourself and get a move on?
*You encounter door with broken panel*
Atlas: You will need something to open this. Look around, perhaps?
*You look around, come across plasmid machine*
Atlas: Ah, this will help. We're running low on time, would you kindly inject yourself and get a move on?
Problem solved?
Bingo.
That would have done fine. I would have liked a little more appreciation around the strange as fuck idea of vending machines giving out hypodermic drugs, but you've got the point.
apotheos on
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited September 2007
Shit.
I just realized something.
Your character's name is Jack. Your "father's" surname is Ryan.
Edit: oh jeez, I just assumed that maybe the dialogue bugged out for that part.
Speaking of the plane crash, (still endgame spoilers here)
During the "Would you kindly" reveal, they flash to the note on the present. Does anybody know what it said? It flashed by too fast for me, but I know it started with "Would you kindly", and probably was the instructions for crashing the plane at the right spot.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Speaking of the plane crash, (still endgame spoilers here)
During the "Would you kindly" reveal, they flash to the note on the present. Does anybody know what it said? It flashed by too fast for me, but I know it started with "Would you kindly", and probably was the instructions for crashing the plane at the right spot.
It said:
Would you kindly crash the plane, go to Gatherer's Garden and jam the first needle you see into your arm, and any other story inconsistencies we didn't think of.
Speaking of the plane crash, (still endgame spoilers here)
During the "Would you kindly" reveal, they flash to the note on the present. Does anybody know what it said? It flashed by too fast for me, but I know it started with "Would you kindly", and probably was the instructions for crashing the plane at the right spot.
It said:
Would you kindly crash the plane, go to Gatherer's Garden and jam the first needle you see into your arm, and any other story inconsistencies we didn't think of.
I'm kidding about that, actually.
I haven't read the full note but I'm pretty sure it's instructions to board the plane and force it to crash at a certain point during the flight (hence the gun). I assume Fontaine posted it when the war broke out.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Speaking of the plane crash, (still endgame spoilers here)
During the "Would you kindly" reveal, they flash to the note on the present. Does anybody know what it said? It flashed by too fast for me, but I know it started with "Would you kindly", and probably was the instructions for crashing the plane at the right spot.
"Would you kindly take the plain down at xxNyyW", or words to that effect
Speaking of the plane crash, (still endgame spoilers here)
During the "Would you kindly" reveal, they flash to the note on the present. Does anybody know what it said? It flashed by too fast for me, but I know it started with "Would you kindly", and probably was the instructions for crashing the plane at the right spot.
It said:
Would you kindly crash the plane, go to Gatherer's Garden and jam the first needle you see into your arm, and any other story inconsistencies we didn't think of.
I'm kidding about that, actually.
I haven't read the full note but I'm pretty sure it's instructions to board the plane and force it to crash at a certain point during the flight (hence the gun). I assume Fontaine posted it when the war broke out.
well it's obviously not instructions to board the plane because that would be rather redundant
I may have imagined this, but I'm pretty sure a lot of the times I saw a turret, there was actually a splicer there fiddling with it, somewhat implying that they are, in fact, put there specifically to fuck with you.
There's a scripted sequence for that. It's in one of the glass tubes overlooking the sea bed. You go through it with no turret and when you come back there's a splicer there setting one up.
What kind of confused me is who had ultimate control of the security system in Rapture.
Like, in the beginning, the first camera and bots you see go after that splicer but not you. At that point is appears that Atlas is in control. After that Ryan appears to be in control. Is it simply that you become an antagonist with regard to the security system after Ryan considers you an enemy? That still doesn't explain why the splicer gets jammed by that first security system. I am talking about the area where you pick up the wrench, right in the very beginning. I don't understand why it goes after him. Unhacked security cameras don't go after ANYONE ELSE in the game.
It was hacked though. If you look at the camera the lights were green. I suppose we are to presume poor Johnny hacked it, got jumped by Ms. Spider, lost his gun and then his intestines.
Go back and check it again.
Unhacked Cameras will trigger on splicers, just not on Big Daddies and Little Sisters. You'll get an Enemy Triggered counter and Yellow Bots just as if you'd hacked it, but you can still catch it's attention.
I saw it happen several times while I was still planning my approach to a camera.
I would compare the Atlas = Fontaine more with the endgame of SS2, rather than with each other. After Shodan reveals herself, she lays it all down: She doesn't like you, you don't like her, but you both have to work together to stop The Many from taking over. Once you do just that, she comes back with "Thank you. Truce over, ha-ha-hacker. Die.". Which is exactly what Fontaine does. He comes on, thanks you for helping, and tells you to kiss your ass goodbye.
I may have imagined this, but I'm pretty sure a lot of the times I saw a turret, there was actually a splicer there fiddling with it, somewhat implying that they are, in fact, put there specifically to fuck with you.
There's a scripted sequence for that. It's in one of the glass tubes overlooking the sea bed. You go through it with no turret and when you come back there's a splicer there setting one up.
What kind of confused me is who had ultimate control of the security system in Rapture.
Like, in the beginning, the first camera and bots you see go after that splicer but not you. At that point is appears that Atlas is in control. After that Ryan appears to be in control. Is it simply that you become an antagonist with regard to the security system after Ryan considers you an enemy? That still doesn't explain why the splicer gets jammed by that first security system. I am talking about the area where you pick up the wrench, right in the very beginning. I don't understand why it goes after him. Unhacked security cameras don't go after ANYONE ELSE in the game.
It was hacked though. If you look at the camera the lights were green. I suppose we are to presume poor Johnny hacked it, got jumped by Ms. Spider, lost his gun and then his intestines.
This is before Ryan realizes you're even in the city, and since you share the same DNA the security measures in the city are naturally friendly.
Speaking of the plane crash, (still endgame spoilers here)
During the "Would you kindly" reveal, they flash to the note on the present. Does anybody know what it said? It flashed by too fast for me, but I know it started with "Would you kindly", and probably was the instructions for crashing the plane at the right spot.
it had co-ordinates for somewhere off the coast of greenland.
and said would you kindly use this to down the plane i think.
Speaking of the plane crash, (still endgame spoilers here)
During the "Would you kindly" reveal, they flash to the note on the present. Does anybody know what it said? It flashed by too fast for me, but I know it started with "Would you kindly", and probably was the instructions for crashing the plane at the right spot.
it had co-ordinates for somewhere off the coast of greenland.
and said would you kindly use this to down the plane i think.
inside the box was a gun.
There was a pretty clear screenshot of that thing in this thread or the last one.
I'm not a huge PC Gamer (at all), but I believe I would like to get this for my computer. What are the system requirements? I have a sinking feeling my machine is a bit out of date. If it is, I'll stick with the 360 version.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited September 2007
Personally I never saw the cameras attack the splicers, or the turrets and I have seen plenty of splicers around turrets.
I like the idea of the red meaning broken and the green lights meaning fixed though. Meaning they have been fixed to the orriginal setting of
Avoiding Ryan's DNA pattern
In regards to Fontaine.
I don't think they really explored him enough. They really should of pushed the angle that while he was based off Ryan's ideas as he did build Fontaine Industries (although strangely enough all the plasmids are from Ryan Industries, what is with that?) he perverted Ryan's ideals it by providing the lower class a shortcut to power.
I think it would of been better if Fontaine was trying to show how ridiculous Ryan's philosphy is. It's fine for the people in charge but when someone better and stronger comes along the current administration needs to step aside or you see what happens in Rapture. Also Objectivism fucks the lower class in the arse, it's fine for the scientists and what not, but you need the cleaners so the scientists can be scientists.
I don't think they really pushed the idea that the uprising was due to Ryan's lack of care of the lower class (parasites) and the push for the individual power which is what Fontaine did. You weren't just a product of Fontaine you were also a product of Ryan's whacky philosphies as well
Fontaine was just I'm going to be in charge BWHAHAHAHA! I would of prefered him to ask why shouldn't he be in charge.
Although the other question is if he did win what would he be in charge of?
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Seriously. I used one Health Pack (stupid Security Bot) and maybe 3 Eve Hypos. Ah well. Overall, a very entertaining game. I'll start up a Hard runthrough for the missing Achievements and Harvest ending later.
How do you guys thing the city was build in the first place? Quite an engineering feat by any standards. Do you think it was mostly assembled above ground and then lowered into the sea? Maybe it was built on a big raft type structure out on the ocean, and then the supporting raft was removed. If i recall correctly, it said in one of the audio that the city is 6 miles under the sea, i doubt a place like that could have been built underwater (consider all the pressure). Also, ADAM wasn't available at the time of constriction, so no crazy plasmids.
P.S. in the opening video you can see Rapture in all its grandeur and surface scrapers (yes i just coined that, I believe), i wish you could have gotten more of a chance to get a feel of the city as a whole.
I liked that one audio log of Suchong with the little sister. Papa suchong! PAPA SUCHONG! *WHACK* *AWOOOOOO*
Ah good ol Suchong.
This is science fiction. No more impossible than a fully self sufficient space station is.
Well, of course. Though ironically a self-sustaining space station would be easier to build than a self-sustaining underwater colony, believe it or not.
What I consider likely is that Ryan had "construction submarines" (i.e., subs built to take groups of men down and support construction operations) built, and underwater versions of construction equipment tailor made, and sent hundreds of men down in submarines and diving gear, and they just started building. The most implausible bit of Rapture's engineering is all the glass windows- Ryan would need some kind of superglass to pull that off. Plus a whole fleet of surface ships.
Naturally, of course, the city's design is fantastic artistically and doesn't need to be remotely plausible.
'I chose the IMPOSSIBLE!'
Before being spoiler ridden, if you have a problem to the degree I compare it to System Shock 2 but have never played System Shock 2 what the hell kind of damn fool are you? You obviously have no insight on the subject and have both nothing to contribute on that point nor any grounds to attack my comparison seeing as you never played the other game. The only reason you would want to attack be is because waah waah waah he doesn't love Bioshock like I do. And that is where I will accept some blame, as maybe I've come off like I don't like Bioshock. I do. It is just a bit dissapointing to see all the time between Shock 2 and Bioshock go into a few specific areas while nothing was done to the plot to really make this game a slam dunk. Shock 2 took a turn for the sucking ass for the last 30 mintues of the game in the Body of the Many, but the flaws in Bioshock make the same transition - the "after Ryan" point - come sooner, even if the decline in quality is much more gradual.
The thing about "after ryan" is that unlike Shock 2 the level design and gorgeous graphics pretty much stay on par, so the game is still fun. Not so in Shock 2. The problems, for me, are all plot driven. See, before Ryan Bioshock gave the player a lot to think about. There was a consistent quality to the game world that made you really wonder about Rapture, the people that came here, the people that were left, and what was really going on. After Ryan - you shoot some stuff until the game is over.
I like Bioshock. Great game. 8/10. But System Shock 2 was/is an 8.5/9, and I like it when my "sequels" excel over their predecessors, not feel like best of compilations with new art.
Also, Big Daddies and Little Sisters were a bit of a downer from a plot perspective as their inherent conflict OMG LITTLE GIRLS was only brought up three times.
I've yet to start a new game and reevaluate the start of Bioshock with the perspective of the secret, but I find the idea of giving the character motivations unknown to the player that just happen to coincide with the linear path through the game to be really trite and manipulative. It pulls you out of the experience, as its not your experience any more - its the bastard kid of Ryans experience you get to pilot for some reason. I asked right off the top "why am I doing all this dumb shit", more importantly "why the fuck did I find a needle on the ground and jab it in my arm?" and the answer is I didn't have a choice but I just didn't know it.
I play games to have choice, to make choices, to interact with the game space. The FPS genre is a very intimate experience - you are seeing things directly - and creates an expectation of intimacy with the experience. In an adventure game I don't mind when Solid Snake goes off and does some dumb shit in a cutscene as those games are about moving from cutscene to cutscene. In a game like this I usually have more control of the experience, that while a linear progression through levels I control how to interface with that experience.
The "Would you kindly" plot point just fucks with that and that was annoying to me.
The game also posesses an obnoxious degree of spawning splicers in to places you've just looked. Unless there was some "air duct" or other logical back door mechanic at work that I missed, I find that really ruins the suspension of disbelief in a game. You can use it a little bit - especially in open corridors to simulate wandering traffic - but they overused it. I was just in the Eugenics lab and cleared a room, converted a turrent, and as soon as I left the fucking turret goes off because some idiots spawned in behind me. That is just crap design.
The "sleeping splicers" gimmick is only slightly better, but was again overused. And the sharp ramp in difficulty - especially on leadhead splicers - was really obnoxous. I switched to freeze-shotgun to compensate, but I disliked how arbitrary it felt. The game really needed a new enemy to show up at that point instead of arbitrarily ganking things you've been fighting all game.
Other things I didn't like: the inability to review your plasmids outside of stupid vending machines. I could accept not being able to change them (but why then can I change them when I pick one up?) but please let me SEE them. The similar inability to know at a glance what research you have done. And, the ridiculous overabundance of vending machines - there was one in Fontaines apartment for christs sakes.
I liked how hacking varied in difficulty - safes gave me a really hard time mid game - but the overabundance of autohack tools really triviailized that. On medium, 10-15% of shit should be left behind as unhackable. It gives you a feeling of curiosity and reminds you that you are not superhuman. I've not played Shock 2 in a long time, but I remember being REALLY cautious about what I used autohacks on.
The last point can only be to go back and say that while I loved the aesthetic, the Von Braun was a more believeable space than Rapture. Neither was perfect, but Rapture felt more like a game than the Von Braun. Stuff was put places - notably turrets - with the goal to specifically fuck with you rather than feel like it was fucking with everyone, you just happened to come along.
Great game. HIGHLY recommended. But interesting in how it didn't improve on Shock 2, and interesting in how it didn't carry its fantastic opening though to the mid/end game. I still have problems with the opening but I need to play it again to see how hindsight clears things up.
猿も木から落ちる
End spoilers
But instead, the game still gives you the choice of rescuing or harvesting. If you rescue all the Little Sisters up to Ryan, then you're able to overcome the mind control therapy and stop being a slave, and not finish off Ryan with the golf club.
After that, the game would truly be different depending on whether you took the 'good' or 'bad' path, instead of just one crappy path.
As for the difficulty jump, I never noticed. I guess with both armor tonics loaded up and the wrench maxed out everything goes down quick.
Thank you for saying exactly what most of us felt about the game, but were unable to say due to poor linguistic skills.
There's a scripted sequence for that. It's in one of the glass tubes overlooking the sea bed. You go through it with no turret and when you come back there's a splicer there setting one up.
What kind of confused me is who had ultimate control of the security system in Rapture.
Yeah, that was another aspect of the plot that just lost me.
In my case.
The twist in SS2 and BS are almost exactly the same but SS2 did it much better. For one, your main enemy remains your main enemy throughout the game, even after the reveal. The fact you're being subservient to a malevolent force is just something you take on the chin while you deal with the immediate threat. Both voices in your head are pricks, its just which one you're gonna take down first but after the reveal you still have a decent enemy thats been built up over the game to go hunt down and waste while the other one is being built up again along side the initial enemy.
In BS, your main antagonist pretty much springs from nowhere and our only reason to give a shit is because of the twist. Without it he'd be even more generic and uninteresting to hunt down. The entirety of BS builds to that twist and after that it has nowhere to go to.
SS2 for the win.
As far as comparing both game's twist,
Also, the whole conceit of the plane crash is a little off the wall. And it doesn't seem explained what our character was doing on the surface, or on that exact plane that got to that exact place.
猿も木から落ちる
*You encounter door with broken panel*
Atlas: You will need something to open this. Look around, perhaps?
*You look around, come across plasmid machine*
Atlas: Ah, this will help. We're running low on time, would you kindly inject yourself and get a move on?
Problem solved?
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Bingo.
That would have done fine. I would have liked a little more appreciation around the strange as fuck idea of vending machines giving out hypodermic drugs, but you've got the point.
猿も木から落ちる
I just realized something.
Edit: oh jeez, I just assumed that maybe the dialogue bugged out for that part.
On the Bathysphere destination screen I had one label that was never filled in.
Playing again, looking at the Emergency Access Map, I see one branch that is unlabeled.
Is there a secret area in Bioshock?
猿も木から落ちる
It blanks out the area you're currently in.
Maybe it was a bit of storyline that got chopped out, really there should've been a
but yeah it's to make it crash at the coordinates
Go back and check it again.
I saw it happen several times while I was still planning my approach to a camera.
I can't remember it happening at all, there's no justification for it since the Splicers and Cameras are working for Ryan
Shodan does that??
and said would you kindly use this to down the plane i think.
inside the box was a gun.
There was a pretty clear screenshot of that thing in this thread or the last one.
I'm not a huge PC Gamer (at all), but I believe I would like to get this for my computer. What are the system requirements? I have a sinking feeling my machine is a bit out of date. If it is, I'll stick with the 360 version.
I like the idea of the red meaning broken and the green lights meaning fixed though. Meaning they have been fixed to the orriginal setting of
In regards to Fontaine.
I think it would of been better if Fontaine was trying to show how ridiculous Ryan's philosphy is. It's fine for the people in charge but when someone better and stronger comes along the current administration needs to step aside or you see what happens in Rapture. Also Objectivism fucks the lower class in the arse, it's fine for the scientists and what not, but you need the cleaners so the scientists can be scientists.
I don't think they really pushed the idea that the uprising was due to Ryan's lack of care of the lower class (parasites) and the push for the individual power which is what Fontaine did. You weren't just a product of Fontaine you were also a product of Ryan's whacky philosphies as well
Fontaine was just I'm going to be in charge BWHAHAHAHA! I would of prefered him to ask why shouldn't he be in charge.
Although the other question is if he did win what would he be in charge of?
Satans..... hints.....
So...why is it considered "good" to kill the little sisters bodyguards and then save them? Wouldn't it be nicer to leave them both the hell alone?
猿も木から落ちる
No, because even if you leave them alone they still have the life sucking sea slug inside them.