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So you know that OU recruit who was killed a week ago?

TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
edited September 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
In case you don't know what I'm talking about, a week ago, a highschool football player who had committed to play at OU was shot and killed in his highschool parking lot.

Well, it seems a booster for OU is trying to raise money to pay for the boy's funeral. The only problem? The NCAA is saying this is illegal. for those who don't follow college football, the NCAA has strict guidelines regarding money and players. Universities, and anyone even remotely associated with the university, have to follow strict guidelines regarding money donations, or else the university will be subject to extreme sanctions and/or loss of scholarships. The NCAA is saying that, because the OU booster is raising money for this boy, they are violating these guidelines.

Please allow me to be the first to voice my outrage. This is fucking heartless.

TheSonicRetard on
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Posts

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Wait, restrictions against financial contributions continue after a person's death?

    That is indeed, pretty cold.

    Forar on
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  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Forar wrote: »
    Wait, restrictions against financial contributions continue after a person's death?

    That is indeed, pretty cold.
    It's also an issue when people die on the practice field, and because they are "voluntary" practices (or something like that), the players are not covered by any of the schools insurance. It happens about every 2-3 years, and the same thing comes up -- the family is distraught and helpless, and the school can't so much as offer to pay for the burial, despite the fact that they died supporting their lucrative football program.

    There's a lot wrong with the NCAA guidelines, but as repeated discussions I've had with other people on the topic have shown, not many people really care to change it.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited August 2007
    I'm not too keen on the structure of these guidelines. Is there a reasonable way the rules could be structured to prevent bribery and unethical donations while not barring stuff like this?

    ElJeffe on
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  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I'm not too keen on the structure of these guidelines. Is there a reasonable way the rules could be structured to prevent bribery and unethical donations while not barring stuff like this?
    Considering how much bribery and unethical donations still occur, no, not at all. They either need to bring the money above the table and stop lying to themselves, or they need to continue with all kinds of weird bullshit and obscure guidelines.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
  • FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I think it was last year the NCAA was cracking down on a college athelete that was also an honor student and raising his kid brother by himself for recieving donations. They need to stop being cut and dry and start morally assessing each scenario.

    Fellhand on
  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Fellhand wrote: »
    I think it was last year the NCAA was cracking down on a college athelete that was also an honor student and raising his kid brother by himself for recieving donations. They need to stop being cut and dry and start morally assessing each scenario.
    The moment "moral assessment" enters the picture, it will be a floodgate for corrupt donations.

    Like I said, they can't really keep the system clean now, how would adding extra wiggle do anything besides increase the amount of corruption?

    The Green Eyed Monster on
  • FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    celery77 wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    I think it was last year the NCAA was cracking down on a college athelete that was also an honor student and raising his kid brother by himself for recieving donations. They need to stop being cut and dry and start morally assessing each scenario.
    The moment "moral assessment" enters the picture, it will be a floodgate for corrupt donations.

    Like I said, they can't really keep the system clean now, how would adding extra wiggle do anything besides increase the amount of corruption?

    I dunno. I just feel that if there already is corruption, then if we add a little wiggle we'll have more of what we already have, but at least we can say that some good happened too.

    Fellhand on
  • witch_iewitch_ie Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    They could have it go before a committee of NCAA folks to determine if the donations are reasonable and do not contribute to corruption or unethical behavior. Since they already use this type of terminology, this might get around the "moral assessment" thing. To avoid every athlete coming to them with something like this, they could say that a committee hearing would occur at the discretion of the committee members - somwhat like the cases heard by the Supreme Court.

    witch_ie on
  • LaOsLaOs SaskatoonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I really don't know anything about how the NCAA works with its guidelines and such, so could someone tell me why it's more complicated than just leaving the rules as they are now and adding a clause where if the student/athlete dies, these restrictions X,Y, and Z on donations, etc. are lifted?

    I don't see how paying for the athlete's funeral or raising money for his family after he's dead contributes at all to any sort of corruption of sports?

    Wasn't the idea of the regulations to keep richer schools from throwing money, booze, bling, and women at potential athletes to level the playing field for all schools and all recruiting programs? (Basically, anyway?)

    LaOs on
  • GreatnationGreatnation Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Jesus Christ, a good freind of mine is going to be a freshmen playing football for OU. Way to scare the balls out of me

    Greatnation on
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Isn't unofficial life insurance through donations just as much a sport-based benefit as anything else provided to a player by a school?

    The big problem here seems to be that he wasn't even a student of OU at the time. Would they have done the same for any other highschooler who was going to attend OU, or was this exceptional because he was going to be on their football team? If it's because he was a football player, then yes, this needs to be smacked down hard.

    jothki on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Why the hell doesn't the NCAA mandate that the schools have to carry a certain level of insurance on their players? That's fucking retarded.

    Thanatos on
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Thinatos wrote: »
    Why the hell doesn't the NCAA mandate that the schools have to carry a certain level of insurance on their players? That's fucking retarded.

    Because that would be exactly the opposite of what NCAA regulations are supposed to accomplish? If the school wants to provide life insurance for all current and future students that's perfectly reasonable, but only doing so for atheletes blatantly goes against the NCAA's goals.

    jothki on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    jothki wrote: »
    Thinatos wrote: »
    Why the hell doesn't the NCAA mandate that the schools have to carry a certain level of insurance on their players? That's fucking retarded.

    Because that would be exactly the opposite of what NCAA regulations are supposed to accomplish? If the school wants to provide life insurance for all current and future students that's perfectly reasonable, but only doing so for atheletes blatantly goes against the NCAA's goals.

    Don't athletes carry a higher risk of death or injury then regular students? I don't know the stats, but watching the Sun Devil's practice in full gear in the middle of august seems like a pretty big liability to me.

    Sentry on
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  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Sentry wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    Thinatos wrote: »
    Why the hell doesn't the NCAA mandate that the schools have to carry a certain level of insurance on their players? That's fucking retarded.
    Because that would be exactly the opposite of what NCAA regulations are supposed to accomplish? If the school wants to provide life insurance for all current and future students that's perfectly reasonable, but only doing so for atheletes blatantly goes against the NCAA's goals.
    Don't athletes carry a higher risk of death or injury then regular students? I don't know the stats, but watching the Sun Devil's practice in full gear in the middle of august seems like a pretty big liability to me.
    Football is pretty much the most dangerous sport played in the U.S. It's insane that they let players go out there without insurance.

    Thanatos on
  • hambonehambone Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Please allow me to be the first to voice my outrage. This is fucking heartless.

    You know it's fucked up when a longhorn is angry about the sooners getting screwed.

    hambone on
    Just a bunch of intoxicated pigeons.
  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Thinatos wrote: »
    Why the hell doesn't the NCAA mandate that the schools have to carry a certain level of insurance on their players? That's fucking retarded.
    They carry insurance, but it doesn't cover everything, particularly practices, because I think there are also regulations as to how much student-athletes can be "required" to practice in order to balance school and athletics, so there are some "voluntary" practices at which students have died, leaving no recourse for the school.

    In the case of an athlete getting injured during a game, they're covered, get taken care of, full expenses and all that, but there's other loopholes (like this example) which can present problems.

    It really all stems from this idiotic idea that these people are "student-athletes" and that any money at all (except for the coaches and the school itself, who get millions) somehow erodes or degrades the game.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    celery77 wrote: »
    Thinatos wrote: »
    Why the hell doesn't the NCAA mandate that the schools have to carry a certain level of insurance on their players? That's fucking retarded.
    They carry insurance, but it doesn't cover everything, particularly practices, because I think there are also regulations as to how much student-athletes can be "required" to practice in order to balance school and athletics, so there are some "voluntary" practices at which students have died, leaving no recourse for the school.

    In the case of an athlete getting injured during a game, they're covered, get taken care of, full expenses and all that, but there's other loopholes (like this example) which can present problems.

    It really all stems from this idiotic idea that these people are "student-athletes" and that any money at all (except for the coaches and the school itself, who get millions) somehow erodes or degrades the game.

    I think that idea has a small amount of merit... the idea of colleges "buying" the best student athletes is reprehensible to me... of course, most of them find a way to do that anyway.

    Also, the idea that somehow practice is voluntary is completely asanine, seeing as how athletes that don't show up are less likely to actually be allowed to play.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Sentry wrote: »
    Also, the idea that somehow practice is voluntary is completely asanine, seeing as how athletes that don't show up are less likely to actually be allowed to play.
    That was the point of the scare quotes, it's more bullshit disconnect between the regulations and what's actually going on.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    celery77 wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Also, the idea that somehow practice is voluntary is completely asanine, seeing as how athletes that don't show up are less likely to actually be allowed to play.
    That was the point of the scare quotes, it's more bullshit disconnect between the regulations and what's actually going on.

    Right, that was directed at the administration and NCAA, not at you. Sorry.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • NerissaNerissa Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    You know what the best solution to this whole thing is?

    Take athletics away from the control of the schools entirely. Make it all club-based. You can still have a league specifically for clubs whose players are all college students, or whatever it takes to keep it on the same level as it is now. Yeah, most teams would be specific to an individual school, although maybe if there are more than one club close enough, some players might choose to "cross" clubs. Maybe require all players to maintain a minimum 2.0 GPA or whatever, but make it an entirely separate entity from the school.

    The clubs themselves could still offer scholarships, or whatever, but the university could then concentrate on actually TEACHING rather than trying to let star athletes who can't handle the academics skate.

    Nerissa on
  • Evil_ReaverEvil_Reaver Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Thinatos wrote: »
    Why the hell doesn't the NCAA mandate that the schools have to carry a certain level of insurance on their players? That's fucking retarded.

    Well, even if they did carry insurance on the players, it won't even apply to this situation because the recruit wasn't playing football when he died.

    Here's an article about it on ESPN.com:
    ESPN wrote:
    NORMAN, Okla. -- The University of Oklahoma will ask the NCAA for a waiver to allow a booster to raise money for the funeral of a football recruit who was killed last week.

    Herman Mitchell, a 6-foot, 200-pound linebacker, verbally committed in June to play for the Sooners, but the 17-year-old from Westfield High School in Houston was shot to death Friday after getting into a fight at an apartment complex.

    Soon after, Oklahoma booster and Houston resident Adam Fineberg began raising money for Mitchell's family to help defray the player's funeral costs. Fineberg had raised about $4,500 before university compliance officials told him his actions violated NCAA rules. He has since refunded the money.

    "A lot of people were contacting me, concerned that their donations would get OU in trouble. I'm going to let OU deal with the NCAA," he said Wednesday.

    Oklahoma officials said they'd been told Tuesday by the NCAA that the money raised by Fineberg would constitute illegal financial assistance under NCAA rules, because Mitchell's brother is a sophomore football player at Westfield and Fineberg is considered to be an Oklahoma booster.

    Fineberg said his only intention was to help Mitchell's mother to pay for the funeral.

    Oklahoma athletic department spokesman Kenny Mossman said the university plans to submit a request to the NCAA for a waiver that would allow Fineberg to resume his fundraising. NCAA spokesman Erik Christianson said the organization "would consider that if the university chose to go down that avenue."

    Mossman said the waiver request would "just outline the situation and parameters" of where the money would go and would likely be submitted to the NCAA within a few days.

    "I'm sure they'll recognize this is a situation that merits a quick review," Mossman said.

    Fineberg said he expected to raise at least $10,000, which would cover the cost of Mitchell's funeral. His plan was to collect donations until Oct. 1, then give the money to Mitchell's family on Oct. 5.

    "I understand that rules shouldn't be broken," Fineberg said. "But I don't understand this rule."

    Authorities arrested a 19-year-old Louisiana man, Emile "Rusty" Lewis, and charged him with murder in the shooting of Mitchell.

    Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

    According to the article, the recruit, Herman Mitchell has a brother that plays high school football, so that somehow makes the fund raising illegal. It's just another bullshit decision by an incompetent organization.

    Evil_Reaver on
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  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Nerissa wrote: »
    You know what the best solution to this whole thing is?

    Take athletics away from the control of the schools entirely. Make it all club-based. You can still have a league specifically for clubs whose players are all college students, or whatever it takes to keep it on the same level as it is now. Yeah, most teams would be specific to an individual school, although maybe if there are more than one club close enough, some players might choose to "cross" clubs. Maybe require all players to maintain a minimum 2.0 GPA or whatever, but make it an entirely separate entity from the school.

    The clubs themselves could still offer scholarships, or whatever, but the university could then concentrate on actually TEACHING rather than trying to let star athletes who can't handle the academics skate.
    In Europe the large soccer clubs run youth academies, which are basically sports high schools. Young players, as young as 11-13 are given contracts and invited to attend the youth academy where they receive instruction as well as high-level, professional coaching, monitored by the very same pro clubs they hope to become a part of as they grow older.

    This seems like the other end of the spectrum from our system, and I'm not really sure what the best middle ground would be.

    Personally I'd just like the student-athletes to be able to receive monetary gifts and endorsements and other deals that other students are also free to receive, then there would be no question whatsoever if a booster wanted to pay for a funeral or anything else. I think the real effect this would have on the already corrupt college athletic programs would be pretty negligible. It's not like Boise State was really going to pry any of USC's recruits off them if it wasn't in USC's mind to get them.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Thinatos wrote: »
    Why the hell doesn't the NCAA mandate that the schools have to carry a certain level of insurance on their players? That's fucking retarded.
    Well, even if they did carry insurance on the players, it won't even apply to this situation because the recruit wasn't playing football when he died.
    Yeah, I'm aware, but it's bullshit that the school's insurance won't cover it when shit like that happens on the field.

    Thanatos on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    celery77 wrote: »
    Nerissa wrote: »
    You know what the best solution to this whole thing is?

    Take athletics away from the control of the schools entirely. Make it all club-based. You can still have a league specifically for clubs whose players are all college students, or whatever it takes to keep it on the same level as it is now. Yeah, most teams would be specific to an individual school, although maybe if there are more than one club close enough, some players might choose to "cross" clubs. Maybe require all players to maintain a minimum 2.0 GPA or whatever, but make it an entirely separate entity from the school.

    The clubs themselves could still offer scholarships, or whatever, but the university could then concentrate on actually TEACHING rather than trying to let star athletes who can't handle the academics skate.
    In Europe the large soccer clubs run youth academies, which are basically sports high schools. Young players, as young as 11-13 are given contracts and invited to attend the youth academy where they receive instruction as well as high-level, professional coaching, monitored by the very same pro clubs they hope to become a part of as they grow older.

    This seems like the other end of the spectrum from our system, and I'm not really sure what the best middle ground would be.

    Personally I'd just like the student-athletes to be able to receive monetary gifts and endorsements and other deals that other students are also free to receive, then there would be no question whatsoever if a booster wanted to pay for a funeral or anything else. I think the real effect this would have on the already corrupt college athletic programs would be pretty negligible. It's not like Boise State was really going to pry any of USC's recruits off them if it wasn't in USC's mind to get them.

    Football programs rise from obscurity all the time. Florida State in the 90's anyone? Hell, compare Texas today to Texas in the 1980's.

    Although, I must say that the BCS has widened the gap between haves and have-nots.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • hambonehambone Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    ^^^ hell, Boise State anyone?


    Oklahoma should tell the NCAA to fuck itself and make the donation anyway. They're already in trouble for the Rhett Bomar thing so it's not like things can get a whole lot worse for them. They'd probably get the Big12 and several other conferences to support them as well.

    Helping the bereaved family of a dead kid is not a recruitment perk, it's gesture of decency.

    hambone on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Yet again, the NCAA demonstrates why it desperately needs to be disbanded.

    Seriously, have you looked at their rules for student-athletes?
    • First, my favorite example of an utterly fucked up rule is their cap on earnings. Any student-athlete under the NCAA can only earn $2000/year. Regardless of if they're on scholarship or not. And this amount was set back when the NCAA started up.
    • Then, the NCAA sets tight guidelines for what courses in high school they'll accept. Doesn't matter if you were doing work beyond that standard - you're still just as fucked. So no advanced studies for you if you want to play sports in college.
    • Oh, and if you want to challenge the NCAA, all of the appeals processes are handled through them. Real fucking fair.
    • And this is made worse by the fact that the NCAA make billions off these kids a year.

    I swear, everytime I see one of those NCAA "Most of our athletes go pro in something other than sports" spots, I want to put my shoe through the TV. Fuck Brand, and fuck the NCAA.

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  • Pants ManPants Man Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    [*]Then, the NCAA sets tight guidelines for what courses in high school they'll accept. Doesn't matter if you were doing work beyond that standard - you're still just as fucked. So no advanced studies for you if you want to play sports in college.

    okay, you're going to have to provide some proof for that, because that sounds like complete BS

    Pants Man on
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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I pretty much refuse to support the NCAA because of this. I don't go to games, I don't buy merchandise, I don't generally watch any of their sports on TV. I'm actually pissed that I'm forced to contribute to my school's teams through mandatory fees.

    I do support my town's minor league baseball team. I also supported our minor-league hockey team, until it went under. At least these sports seem to provide their own farm teams, rather than leeching off our colleges. Our minor league baseball players at least get fucking paid.

    And yes, the rules could be reworked to prevent this. I mean, once a player is dead the school should at least be allowed to pay for the burial if they so choose.

    mcdermott on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Pants Man wrote: »
    [*]Then, the NCAA sets tight guidelines for what courses in high school they'll accept. Doesn't matter if you were doing work beyond that standard - you're still just as fucked. So no advanced studies for you if you want to play sports in college.

    okay, you're going to have to provide some proof for that, because that sounds like complete BS

    It's not, as I remember a girl in a nearby school when I was in HS got hit with this - she was doing an advanced research program in one of her core subjects, completely okayed by the school district, and the NCAA refused to give her certification.

    Here's an article about this bullshit. The point made at the end is the most chilling - even when it was clear that the NCAA would not win in a court of law, they continued to fight the injunction, so that they could make it clear that the NCAA's word is law. That, my friend, is the problem - as long as the NCAA is sole arbiter, this bullshit will continue. But if the NCAA knew that it was answerable to another, then their regulations would get a lot more reasonable FAST.

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  • TostitosTostitos __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2007
    Fuck organized sports, basically.

    Tostitos on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Tostitos wrote: »
    Fuck organized sports, basically.

    Not really. Organizations aren't bad inherently. The problem is that the NCAA is incompetent. All the problems stem from that.

    Id advise people to take a look at this article. As they've pointed out, one reason that schools don't try changing up curricula is because doing so requires that the new curriculum must be recertified by the NCAA. Don't you think there's something a bit WRONG in that?

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    From the linked article:
    Such stories about student victims go on and on. What about educators and schools victimized by the NCAA? One place to begin is with Elk River High School in Minnesota. Educators there developed a course in which students interviewed community members and wrote about what they learned. On the basis of the course title, "Essential Communications," the NCAA declared this course inappropriate for college preparation, thus making several honor students ineligible for athletic participation as freshmen. In its three-sentence memo to the district superintendent, the NCAA made three grammatical errors: "Thank you for you [sic] fax regarding 'Essential Communications.' Do [sic] to the vocational aspect of this, we are unable to approve this course as a core course. Therefore, the decision remains unchange [sic] for student named above."

    What the fuck?

    mcdermott on
  • TostitosTostitos __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2007
    Tostitos wrote: »
    Fuck organized sports, basically.

    Not really. Organizations aren't bad inherently. The problem is that the NCAA is incompetent. All the problems stem from that.

    Id advise people to take a look at this article. As they've pointed out, one reason that schools don't try changing up curricula is because doing so requires that the new curriculum must be recertified by the NCAA. Don't you think there's something a bit WRONG in that?

    Fuck the intersection of Sports and School, then. Seriously. It has no positive benefit for anyone except people who make money from it.

    I love playing football, basketball, and pretty much every competitive sport, but I do it with my friends. I hate the way sports mess with schools. My dad was a biology professor at a certain school, and he had a bunch of sports scholarship students. He basically was required to curve things until they could pass, or be out of a job (which happened in the end anyway). Now, I wasn't the smartest little ten year old but when I was able to pass tests he was giving out just by reasoning my way through, and the jocks couldn't handle them, something is wrong.

    Tostitos on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    mcdermott wrote: »
    From the linked article:
    Such stories about student victims go on and on. What about educators and schools victimized by the NCAA? One place to begin is with Elk River High School in Minnesota. Educators there developed a course in which students interviewed community members and wrote about what they learned. On the basis of the course title, "Essential Communications," the NCAA declared this course inappropriate for college preparation, thus making several honor students ineligible for athletic participation as freshmen. In its three-sentence memo to the district superintendent, the NCAA made three grammatical errors: "Thank you for you [sic] fax regarding 'Essential Communications.' Do [sic] to the vocational aspect of this, we are unable to approve this course as a core course. Therefore, the decision remains unchange [sic] for student named above."

    What the fuck?

    Yep, the NCAA is truly fucked up.

    Personally, I think this has a simple solution - switch the burden. Instead of the student having to prove that their courses meet NCAA guidelines, the NCAA has to prove they don't. And if someone tries to say that would be too costly, well...I think the NCAA needs to be reminded of how many zeroes are on those shiny TV deals.

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  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Man, this is really pretty retarded on the part of the NCAA. But, it makes me glad that in Canada, we generally don't give a shit about collegiate athletics. Major-Junior hockey may not be the best thing in the world for everyone who participates either I guess, since they're basically unpaid athletes, but I've never heard of anything on this scale of sheer bureaucratic inhuman dickery associated with it.

    Corvus on
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  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    mcdermott wrote: »
    I pretty much refuse to support the NCAA because of this. I don't go to games, I don't buy merchandise, I don't generally watch any of their sports on TV. I'm actually pissed that I'm forced to contribute to my school's teams through mandatory fees.

    As a student at my old university, I was forced, as part of my tuition, to purchase student season tickets to the school's football games. That might have included other sports as well, I don't know. I never went to a single game.

    But yeah, fuck the NCAA.

    Marty81 on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    I pretty much refuse to support the NCAA because of this. I don't go to games, I don't buy merchandise, I don't generally watch any of their sports on TV. I'm actually pissed that I'm forced to contribute to my school's teams through mandatory fees.

    As a student at my old university, I was forced, as part of my tuition, to purchase student season tickets to the school's football games. That might have included other sports as well, I don't know. I never went to a single game.

    But yeah, fuck the NCAA.

    This is essentially what we do. We pay like $50 per semester, and in return we get free tickets upon request to any home games. But note that we are not guaranteed such tickets...so, for instance, for popular games (such as the MSU/UofM game, if it's held here) we may well end up not getting one if they sell out quickly due to demand from non-students.

    So maybe it's actually shittier than what you got, I guess.

    mcdermott on
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    I pretty much refuse to support the NCAA because of this. I don't go to games, I don't buy merchandise, I don't generally watch any of their sports on TV. I'm actually pissed that I'm forced to contribute to my school's teams through mandatory fees.

    As a student at my old university, I was forced, as part of my tuition, to purchase student season tickets to the school's football games. That might have included other sports as well, I don't know. I never went to a single game.

    But yeah, fuck the NCAA.

    This is essentially what we do. We pay like $50 per semester, and in return we get free tickets upon request to any home games. But note that we are not guaranteed such tickets...so, for instance, for popular games (such as the MSU/UofM game, if it's held here) we may well end up not getting one if they sell out quickly due to demand from non-students.

    So maybe it's actually shittier than what you got, I guess.

    Ours was about $110 per semester :(.

    The other thing with ours was that the student tickets were only good for sitting in the student section of the arena, so forcing every student to buy student tickets in no way affected the number of tickets they had available to sell to the general public.

    Marty81 on
  • NerissaNerissa Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Tostitos wrote: »
    Fuck organized sports, basically.

    Not really. Organizations aren't bad inherently. The problem is that the NCAA is incompetent. All the problems stem from that.

    Id advise people to take a look at this article. As they've pointed out, one reason that schools don't try changing up curricula is because doing so requires that the new curriculum must be recertified by the NCAA. Don't you think there's something a bit WRONG in that?

    I only skimmed the article, but wow... yet another reason to completely decouple sports from the schools. While I'm personally not interested in sports, I know that plenty of kids wouldn't be able to afford a college education without them, but I'm sure something could be set up to help those students.

    What I imagine such a system would look like in its final setup (which I expect would take several years of intermediate steps) is this (key ideas in bold for a tl;dr):

    Club sports are self-supporting. I'm not sure if individual clubs for individual sports is the way to go here, or a single club covering all sports (both men's and women's) for a particular school / area. However, they need to rely on licensing, ticket sales, donations, whatever to make their financial obligations. They don't get to rely on students' tuition for support, though. I suspect that we'd see some or all of these clubs supported to at least some extent by professional teams, and there would have to be some regulations in place to keep that from unbalancing the league too badly.

    I'm thinking that the single club setup would be most desirable, both in the interests of maintaining support for the less lucrative sports and in the interests of supporting those students who participate in multiple sports based on the season. This would allow the league governing body to mandate things like support for women's sports (which tend to be less financially lucrative), which a separate club system would not.

    College league sports clubs may only field athletes who are currently full-time undergraduate students of good academic standing at an accredited college or university. This would include minimum GPA, disciplinary probation, etc. It also means they need to be taking a reasonable number of classes, and be making reasonable progress toward graduation.

    Ideally, but not essential, the average GPA of the team could be required to be at some minimum standard higher than the individual minimum. This would help encourage students who are not struggling academically to not slack off, because it's up to them to bring up the team average for those who are having trouble.

    Sports clubs provide scholarships or other financial assistance to students based on both need and merit. This might include things like providing their own low-cost (or sliding scale) housing, with regular shuttles to campus and other common destinations (grocery stores, malls, even bars / clubs in the evenings if they so choose) for students who wish to use it.

    Sports clubs would be restricted from any activity that might put undue pressure on the schools / teachers to affect students' grades. This would include things like making monetary donations to the school dependent on how many of their athletes are eligeable to play.

    Sports clubs should be strongly discouraged from pressuring their athletes to make the team a higher priority in their life than academics. I can't think of any ideas right now how this would be handled outside of the minimum GPA requirements.

    Nerissa on
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