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East coast pax?? (possibly for 08')?

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Posts

  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    _______moe wrote: »
    Phanman wrote: »
    I think you could easily hold the event in Janurary on the east coast.

    That's a bad idea. First, if people are traveling in the dead of winter, they're doing it for Christmas and aren't going to do it again a month later. Additionally, unless it's done in Florida, any winter PAX would involve miserable weather, and I can't guarantee the Florida January would be pleasant either.

    No different than PAX being held in August and the possibility of it being unbearably hot/rainy. Considering the event is indoors I think weather isn't a huge factor. We lined up inside the convention center this year, who says we can't do the same on the EC?

    I think if you held the event in winter, you'd make sure that could happen. Just rent some extra room to ensure that people can line up inside. Sure it is cold when they have to leave, but I think that is far from a deal breaker. Winter in the mid-atlantic region can often be quite mild. Just a matter of luck I suppose.

    Lastly, let me ask you this, if they held a PAX on the east coast in Janurary, would you not go because you went to visit some family at Christmas? I'm going to run a risk and assume you'd attend anyways, just like I would attend and many other PA fans would.

    Phanman on
    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator mod
    edited September 2007
    Traveling weather would suck. People would have to risk flight delays and cancellations due to weather. People who would be driving would have to worry about bad weather and slick roads. Also, you wanting PAX in Washington D.C. sounds a little too close to "lolpaxinmyhometown" which I am trying to discourage. If you really think it should be in DC, you need to give some logistical backup as to why that would be better for everybody than other cities. It's easy to travel in the warmer months then it is in the colder months. You don't think weather is a huge factor because you live in Virginia, have you ever seen a blizzard, let alone driven through one? Let me tell you, it's not fun, and some of us "would-be attendees" live up north.

    I might want to attend if they had a Winter PAX, but I can tell you this, my chances of actually making it will be much slimmer for a variety of reasons, depending on an exact date.

    tl;dr - Winter = bad idea, Washington D.C.: I see no reasonable advantages that make this city a superior eastern location for PAX

    Moe Fwacky on
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  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    If I wanted PAX in my hometown, I'd say put it in Richmond, VA. I'm still 2.5 hrs from Washington, DC so while I'm not that close I'm also not that far, but that is not why I'm suggesting it.

    I definitely don't think it should be in Richmond, which is why I didn't suggest it. Capital of VA or not, it would be a horrible place for a PAX EC.

    I lived in Maryland for several years and have lived/driven through many a snow/ice storm (several feet of snow). You do make a point though, so perhaps we can bump it up to March instead of January. I was suggesting January to have maximum time in between the two PAX's.

    I suppose I had hoped you northern attendee's would be used to driving in the winter months and I assumed it wouldn't be a problem, but in hindsight I suppose I was being a bit inconsiderate, my apologies. As for flight cancellations, there is almost the same risk in the summer due to thunderstorms, so I'm not sure that is a valid argument (IMO).

    Here are some reasons why I think Washington DC is a superior location for PAX, and feel free to prove me wrong. In fact I hope you do because that would mean we would be going to the perfect location.

    Pros:
    #1- Washington DC is easier to drive in than New York or Boston.
    #2 - Hotel rates are cheaper than New York or Boston
    #3 - Easy public transportation with metro system, people could easily stay far from PAX to save money and metro in. (And the metro is significantly cleaner and less sketchy than the NY subway)
    #4 - Bountiful free attractions. Washington DC has tons of museums and things to see which don't cost a single penny. So people visiting could have lots to do before/after PAX or during if they feel like it.
    #5 - With 2 major airports (one which is in the city on the metro line) it is easy for people to fly in. Heck, if you flew into Regan National you wouldn't need to rent a car or take a cab. $3 to your hotel is a better deal than you'd get anywhere else.
    #6 - The convention center is HUGE (http://www.dcconvention.com/rates_trade_0507.html)
    #7 - Large variety of restaurants
    #8 - All your normal big city stuff (movie theaters, clubs, game restaurants, etc) and all easily accessible by metro. (Not possible in other cities like Atlanta, Orlando, Charlotte, etc.)
    #9 - Lots of events going on all the time (ie. Concert tours, theater, etc.)
    #10 - Big opportunity for positive gaming press and political involvement. It would be a stretch, but perhaps we could get a couple politicians to show support for the gaming community.

    I will be the first to admit it isn't perfect, but I don't think any location is. I certainly feel it has a strong chance to be the optimal location. Obviously timing of the event is an issue and great research and thought would have to be put into it. Perhaps if there was a PAX EC, the PAX WC would adjust its date a bit in order to have both in a timely fashion.

    I'm just speculating here and I'm not lobbying against PAX WC or even saying that a PAX EC is absolutely needed. I just think it would be nice and merely throwing out some ideas on how it could be done. I appreciate your criticism. Hopefully this is enough information to suggest that I'm not just saying "lolpaxinmyhometown." I just want to help, that's all.

    Phanman on
    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
  • taumesontaumeson PAX PC Room Manager Minnesota?Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Here are some realities to an East Coast PAX.

    1. It would be far more regional. We're getting our panties in a twist over 37.4K attendees, but let's be honest...this was primarily a west coast crowd. There are untapped masses of gamers that PAX could reach out to.
    2. Realistically your only chance of having a successful EC PAX would be for it to be during winter or spring breaks. Summers are con season and you would want to have it when people could actually attend.
    3. If we have it during spring break, I don't think we'd have a problem with too many folks going to Cozumel for spring break or what have you...that's not exactly a nerd destination, if you know what I mean.
    4. If we have it during winter break, then it has to be in Florida. The freeze line is in northern Florida, and that means Orlando or Miami. Orlando's convention center is much nicer than Miami, but either one is expensive in the winter time. Have it north of the freeze line, and be prepared for a sucky, wet, icy time.

    So, realistically a spring-time EC PAX, if not too close to CON season, could get done in Atlanta or Orlando and be a hit. I vote for Orlando cause I live near it. :P

    And I'm 100% willing to admit that a northeast PAX would be a better thing, but I've been to winter and spring conventions at the Javitz in NYC, and wow was it miserable and expensive.

    taumeson on
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  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator mod
    edited September 2007
    I think Chicago could make a good northern Eastern PAX given the proper dates.

    Moe Fwacky on
    E6LkoFK.png

  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    _______moe wrote: »
    I think Chicago could make a good northern Eastern PAX given the proper dates.

    And what makes Chicago a better destination than Washington DC or Orlando?

    I believe it is colder and more expensive.

    A spring convention is very hard to time since everyone has spring breaks at different times. It honestly makes no difference to me since I've already graduated from college, but high school and college students do make up a reasonable percentage of the attending base.

    Unfortunately that likely means a Janurary event. If you're planning this based on weather alone, then you're essentially setting yourself up for Orlando.

    However Washington DC (and all points south for that matter, ie Charlotte and Atlanta) are typically not a frozen mess around the beginning of Jan. I felt I listed 10 very good reasons why it is the ideal location.

    I'm not writing Chicago off at all, I think it is definitely a good option and I would prefer it to NYC or Boston. I'm just curious why you think it is better and also why you seem to be against Washington DC.

    Phanman on
    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'd vote for D.C. or Baltimore just because they're more or less the center of the east coast. Baltimore already hosts PAX like conventions (Otakon etc.) (which isn't exactly video games, but I've known enough anime fans and game fans to see a cross intrest).

    just my 2cp

    Xaquin on
  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator mod
    edited September 2007
    My views are that an East Coast PAX would happen more towards the end of spring (May?) then in March or Dec/January. Everybody keeps seeing the words "East Coast" and assumes that it has to be on the eastern seabord. I think it should be slightly more centralized so after 2 years of EC PAX, we don't have people complaining because there's no midwest PAX. Chicago provides an easy traveling distance from the east coast and the midwest. Additionally, any major city that's going to have a sizable enough convention center, and enough hotel space in a nice enough area is going to be pricey. Also, your more major cities are more likely to be able to handle the sheer mass of people on the first run. I don't like DC for several reasons, one being that it's a political center, not really suited towards this type of event. NYC and Boston will both also be more expensive than Chicago and Cleveland is well, it's Cleveland and you don't want to go there (the same could be said of Detroit). I really think the key to the eastern PAX is to keep it away from the coast, as it opens things up to people who aren't near the Atlantic.

    Moe Fwacky on
    E6LkoFK.png

  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I'd vote for D.C. or Baltimore just because they're more or less the center of the east coast. Baltimore already hosts PAX like conventions (Otakon etc.) (which isn't exactly video games, but I've known enough anime fans and game fans to see a cross intrest).

    just my 2cp

    Having attended Otakon (which has a large gaming involvement) myself , they have about 20-25k people attend every year. It would easily be possible to have PAX EC in Baltimore and it is also a good possibility.

    I suggested DC for the better public transportation, easy access to and from airports and larger selection of entertainment (free entertainment at that). However convention and hotel space may prove to be more economical in Baltimore.

    -edit-

    I don't think the political nature of DC would hinder an event such as this. If anything it could prove to be beneficial. It is far from the only thing in the city and it isn't like there will be a massive protest rally to stop us from having our convention. That being said, Chicago is definitely the best central location, and probably the best location not on the coast. I'm curious as to what other reasons you don't think PAX should be in DC though, you mentioned you had several.

    I think having the two PAXs so close together in date would not be beneficial, but I could be wrong.

    Phanman on
    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
  • randomguyrandomguy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Phanman wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I'd vote for D.C. or Baltimore just because they're more or less the center of the east coast. Baltimore already hosts PAX like conventions (Otakon etc.) (which isn't exactly video games, but I've known enough anime fans and game fans to see a cross intrest).

    just my 2cp

    Having attended Otakon (which has a large gaming involvement) myself , they have about 20-25k people attend every year. It would easily be possible to have PAX EC in Baltimore and it is also a good possibility.

    I suggested DC for the better public transportation, easy access to and from airports and larger selection of entertainment (free entertainment at that). However convention and hotel space may prove to be more economical in Baltimore.

    Chicago is a great choice over DC or Baltimore. You say better public transportation , but you leave out the beltway or the bumper to bumper traffic it takes to get into either of the cities. Sure once everyone is there its not bad. I have been to non gaming festivals on the Balitmore waterfront before. There is space to walk.

    Outside of what you may have heard in a Kanye West track, Chicago crime rates aren't really that bad. The project buildings in Southside are nothing in comparison to those in D.C. , Baltimore, or NYC. If you were walking around them you would think they were normal apartment buildings.

    As for the public transportation around the city is just as good as that in Baltimore. The Metro is very clean, I can't downtalk that, but Chicago can make due. Its large, the people are more friendly there and during summer, spring and winter the night life and daylife is always great. With Baltimore, the winter and fall are ugly.

    Quick edit, it's also very clean in Chicago. It smells nice, even down by the water. The city keeps the area very clean. They even have a park in the middle of downtown that was designed as a miniature Hanging Gardens.

    randomguy on
    "i ate your babies princess."
  • The DeliveratorThe Deliverator Slingin Pies The California BurbclavesRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Chicago has lots going for it. It's got the largest convention center in the country. It's a major transportation nexus for airlines, Amtrak, AND the interstate highway system. It's got it's own share of cool things to see, like the Museum of Science and Industry.

    The Deliverator on
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    there is minimal beltway traffic on the weekends (I live there) and crime rates (though admittedly high) are minimal around venues where PAX could possibly be held. I have no real beef with chicago, it still puts it out of reach of a lot of east coast people. The most anyone would have to travel from anywhere on the east coast to DC is 15 hours (driving). I'd hate to drive from florida to chicago.

    Xaquin on
  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Traffic around DC is bad (I can't argue about that, I definitely hated it when I lived there). You can avoid that though by grabbing the metro from an outlying location or just not taking the beltway as 395 and 295 are easily accessible to get you into the city relatively traffic free.

    The areas around the convention centers in DC and Baltimore are very nice. I also never thought the winter and fall was ugly there at all. Plus with all the parks and monuments in DC, there are plenty of great things to look at. There is plenty of nightlife in DC, despite popular opinion from tourists, the city does not shut down at night. You don't have to search hard for it either, it is like every other major city.

    I'm not anti-Chicago, I'm just playing devil's advocate here :) If it can't be in DC (which honestly has nothing to do with me living closer to DC than Chicago), Chicago would probably be my number 2 choice. Honest truth.


    -edit- I think people keep missing a key point about Washington DC. There is so much free stuff to do and so many PAX attendees have a limited budget. I see that as a huge plus.

    Phanman on
    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
  • Qs23Qs23 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'd be all for Chicago... here's my thoughts.

    Yes, Downtown Chicago is going to be expensive. If you're going to park downtown, expect Seattle type prices if not a little higher. But you don't have to be downtown. Chicago has got the second biggest public transit system in the US. (behind NYC) so you don't have stay on top of the expo hall. even if you do, you don't have to worry about walking the 6 blocks cuz it's flat as a pancake. If you want to go outside of the city, the Merta could pick you up in another state and drop you off in Chicago. Running almost 24 hours on the weedays and about 20 hours on the weekend, plus the $5 unlimited ride ticket for the weekend would help a bunch too.

    Flying... you've got O'Hare. it used to be the #1 airport in the US and now it's #2. (behind Atlanta) So getting a flight from anywhere, even overseas isn't going to be a problem. (it's #4 with overseas travel behind JFK, LAX and MIA) Oh, and Business Traveler Magazine has ranked it the best airport in the US for 9 years running.

    Taking the train... from far away we've figured out that the train isn't that much better then driving, but if it is going to be cheaper to take a train in then flying, then i would suggest it. You'd be coming into Union Station... yes, the same station from the Untouchables. It's also the #4 station in the US for Amtrak.

    Driving... Chicago was and still is a nexus point for the interstate system here in the US. It's the divider between the packed mid-west and east coast and the expansive west. it's got 7 interstates coming in from every direction. 700 miles from NYC, 1200 from FL and 2000 from the West Coast. Plus all the people comin from LA could do a backwards route 66 sort of trip.

    And one final note... in 2005 it had half the homicide rate of NYC.

    Qs23 on
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  • Qs23Qs23 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Phanman wrote: »
    Traffic around DC is bad (I can't argue about that, I definitely hated it when I lived there). You can avoid that though by grabbing the metro from an outlying location or just not taking the beltway as 395 and 295 are easily accessible to get you into the city relatively traffic free.
    Ok, that sounded like Chicago too. I've never driven down there so I'll have to take your word on the 395 and 295. But one thing that I'm not sure if you're thinking about is DC security. If people are flying in with comps and such, they are just going to tie up Dulles and Regan with the screeners being freaked out by all the odd looking hardware.
    The areas around the convention centers in DC and Baltimore are very nice. I also never thought the winter and fall was ugly there at all. Plus with all the parks and monuments in DC, there are plenty of great things to look at. There is plenty of nightlife in DC, despite popular opinion from tourists, the city does not shut down at night. You don't have to search hard for it either, it is like every other major city.
    Where the heck are there convention centers in DC? I mean DC proper. By the Mall and such. I've been there many times and have yet to see something that screams Convention center.
    -edit- I think people keep missing a key point about Washington DC. There is so much free stuff to do and so many PAX attendees have a limited budget. I see that as a huge plus.
    I'm not going to deny the fact that there is lots of free stuff in DC... but the question become... who from PAX is going to care? I'd say that maybe 5% of PAX goers are really going to want to go see some of the stuff in DC and the rest are not going to give a shit.

    Qs23 on
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  • InsensitiveSeaBassInsensitiveSeaBass Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Personally, I'm a fan of Philly as a potential East coast site. The PA convention center is currently expanding 1 million sq. ft. total. On weekends, the convention center area is relatively empty. PHL airport might not be the most popular compared to JFK and O'hare, but I-95 could cover most road trips. The only issue would could be major: VGXPO already runs there. As for the murder rate: don't go to West or North Philly and you'll be fine.

    InsensitiveSeaBass on
  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    In my opinion, Washington DC and Chicago boast the same amount of services and amenities. I think either city would be an ideal location and ultimately it would come down to pricing (of hotels and more importantly convention space), available space and timing of the event to make the final decision, in my honest opinion.

    I think it is a tough call though since DC is also beautiful in the spring. The cherry blossoms and lush green capital lawn is incredible. Chicago is also really pretty and Millennium Park is very impressive. In the wintertime, Chicago is significantly colder, but still pretty. Could make travel conditions harsher but not impossible. Meanwhile it isn't a cakewalk near DC either.

    I know I'd have a tough time choosing. What I'm most curious about though, is that if the PA crew has put any serious thought into the location of an PAX EC if they were to have it.


    Edit- Where is the convention center in DC? It is located here. It is 9 blocks north of the museums and mall area. The area around it is nice.

    Also some people like to visit a city they've never been to before. I got to Seattle early to sightsee a little bit because I had never been to the West Coast.

    Lastly, having flown in and out of Washington and Dulles, all those computers won't be a problem. Tons of business people fly in and out of there every day. Their security isn't any more crazy than any other airport. In fact they're more efficient and quicker than the Seattle airport IMO.

    Phanman on
    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'm starting to have serious doubts that there is a proper scheduling time to do an east coast pax. Given the times available and difficulty with the school year as it stands, It seem to me unfeasible unless we find some vendor thats really interested as sort of a host for this.

    Washington DC might be alright but I hear the crime rate is higher then I would like and then there is all those annoying politicians there. Smithsonian is a huge plus though having never been.

    I would almost think some place in texas would be a good mid point in the country, But there should be local game development in that area for the convention. Las vegas is kind of a no go because its still west coast but I hear some of the flights get really cheap in the off season. As far as time? I could see spring break being a good time to do an east coast pax.


    Khoo, jerry and mike-- Its your show. I'm curious if you are going to do this but 1 pax a year is more then enough. I won't complain about an east coast pax though.

    Viscountalpha on
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Qs23 wrote: »
    Phanman wrote: »
    Traffic around DC is bad (I can't argue about that, I definitely hated it when I lived there). You can avoid that though by grabbing the metro from an outlying location or just not taking the beltway as 395 and 295 are easily accessible to get you into the city relatively traffic free.
    Ok, that sounded like Chicago too. I've never driven down there so I'll have to take your word on the 395 and 295. But one thing that I'm not sure if you're thinking about is DC security. If people are flying in with comps and such, they are just going to tie up Dulles and Regan with the screeners being freaked out by all the odd looking hardware.

    traffic around DC on the weekends really isn't bad. It's the rush hours mon-fri that suck.
    The areas around the convention centers in DC and Baltimore are very nice. I also never thought the winter and fall was ugly there at all. Plus with all the parks and monuments in DC, there are plenty of great things to look at. There is plenty of nightlife in DC, despite popular opinion from tourists, the city does not shut down at night. You don't have to search hard for it either, it is like every other major city.
    Where the heck are there convention centers in DC? I mean DC proper. By the Mall and such. I've been there many times and have yet to see something that screams Convention center. [/QUOTE]

    http://www.dcconvention.com/ about a 5-10 minute metro ride from smithsonian

    Xaquin on
  • Qs23Qs23 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'm starting to have serious doubts that there is a proper scheduling time to do an east coast pax. Given the times available and difficulty with the school year as it stands, It seem to me unfeasible unless we find some vendor thats really interested as sort of a host for this.

    Yeah... the IRC channel just hit that snag too. I know that the colleges around here have their spring breaks at different times and the high schools are different then all of those. The one thing that they do have in common though is the fact that they do all get at least a 4 day weekend come easter. Not sure if I want to see a PAX vs. God thread though...

    Qs23 on
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  • BamboozaBambooza Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Ya the date becomes an issue. Think it should not fall on a holiday weekend as hotel and airfare cost more. But why not have it the last weekend of March? It doesn't fall on mid semester or near the end of the school year where major tests become a concern. As the event has always been Friday night, all day Saturday and until evening Sunday. It’s not like this happens mid week where missing work/school is a requirement.


    I wonder what the first step would be to making this happen in 2009.

    Bambooza on
    The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
  • Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator mod
    edited September 2007
    I would be leaning towards the first weekend in june or last weekend in may, but that may be fringing on too close to regular PAX season to be feasible.

    Moe Fwacky on
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  • Qs23Qs23 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Well the simple math is that if PAX is going to be in the last weekend Aug, then EPAX (or EC-PAX?) should be in the last weekend of Feb if you want to be exactly half a year away from the orginal PAX. So... President's Day weekend maybe?

    Qs23 on
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  • petfishpetfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I have to note that some of us had concerns this year over PAX attendees wandering into the less-safe areas of Seattle. The thought of having a Penny Arcade convention of any official sort in Washington DC . . . seriously, I almost fell out of my chair when I read that. I grew up in some pretty nasty ghettoes and even I'd feel pretty nervous wandering around WDC at night, and I'd imagine we'd want the hours to be pretty similar to the hours we had for PAX this year.

    I can't say it's not something anyone's considering (since I really don't know,) but I also can't imagine that the safety of PAX attendees isn't a concern.

    I mean, dude.

    petfish on
    <khoo> PAX WAS LIKE A ZILLION DAYS
  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    petfish wrote: »
    I have to note that some of us had concerns this year over PAX attendees wandering into the less-safe areas of Seattle. The thought of having a Penny Arcade convention of any official sort in Washington DC . . . seriously, I almost fell out of my chair when I read that. I grew up in some pretty nasty ghettoes and even I'd feel pretty nervous wandering around WDC at night, and I'd imagine we'd want the hours to be pretty similar to the hours we had for PAX this year.

    I can't say it's not something anyone's considering (since I really don't know,) but I also can't imagine that the safety of PAX attendees isn't a concern.

    I mean, dude.

    The convention center is not in a bad part of the city and as a whole, it isn't more unsafe than other large cities at night.

    Plenty of room in all directions around the convention center which are perfectly safe for walking around at night. Especially when there will be such a large group. There aren't going to be cars driving by spraying bullets into a group.

    Like other large cities, most of this is gang/ organized crime related. Also to be fair, the only number that is significantly higher than Seattle's crime numbers are the homicides. While obviously that is of concern my point is that you're just as likely to get robbed/stolen from in Seattle as DC.

    -edit- Obviously timing of PAX EC is an issue. It would be possible to have it in late May/ Early June. But then several of us East Coasters might not go to PAX WC then, not to mention that is pretty close for anyone involved in the planning/running of both events. Who knows, maybe the PA Crew already ran into all of these problems (which city to pick, when to have it, etc.) and they just decided that the one PAX is good enough and then try to turn it into super PAX. That seems more likely and practical, sadly.

    Phanman on
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