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Linux Thread - beta version 5 build 6200 alpha release 2

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    RichardTauberRichardTauber Kvlt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Writing right now from Ubuntu. :D Took a while to install and Windows XP doesn't like the partitioning but after crashing the first time due to one of the Ubuntu-partitions not working properly, it now works like a dream. Took me five minutes to set up the wireless internet and most of that time remembering the password so I'm happy.

    Edit: On second thought, the crash the first time I booted Ubuntu seemed like a big deal. This is my second attempt at booting and now everything works apparently. Should I be worried?

    RichardTauber on
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    Once or twice a year I go "Time to try Linux as desktop OS again!"

    Then I install it, use it for a week, and go back to Windows.

    Not dissing Linux here - it's a great server OS, and what I use when I have a web/NAS server up and running at home. But I don't have any use for it as a desktop OS.

    Different strokes.

    I used to do exactly this, but it finally stuck when I tried Ubuntu 6.06.
    Barrakketh wrote: »
    rayofash wrote: »
    No it isn't. In fact, it has never done that for me. I had to scour the Ubuntu forums for somebody elses configuration and copy and paste and set everything just right to get it to work. The hardest part of getting Linux to work has always been 3D acceleration because it has never configured it for me and I have to go searching to forum archives.

    And I'm telling you that it does, in fact, do this. I decided to do a clean install of Feisty about a month after release and it works exactly as I described. You can read the release information here for Feisty. The "Desktop Effects" and "Easier install of proprietary drivers" sections are of interest.

    For what it's worth, I didn't have to fiddle at all with getting 3D acceleration to work on my laptop (a Thinkpad T41, I originally installed 6.10, used the automatic tool to upgrade to 7.04 when it came out).

    As far as beryl goes, I just added the project repositories to Synaptic, and selected the "beryl" package. Worked fine.

    japan on
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    suadeosuadeo Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    DigDug2000 wrote: »
    So I don't know if it was explained well, but Ubuntu/SUSE/Other are all linux distributions. Ubuntu happens to be a debian distribution. Basically that means it uses a particular method for installing/uninstalling stuff. You can use Ubuntu's GUI to do it with the package manager, or you can use the command line:

    sudo apt-get install <package-name>

    sudo just puts you into super user mode for this command, bypassing pretty much all security.
    apt-get is the program used for downloading packages from the repositories and then installing the package
    install is just an option to install, there are others like "remove"
    and then the name of the program you want to install
    you can use: sudo apt-cache search <regexp> to look for packages from the command line.

    Linux is a mess because everything depends on everything else. So to install one package you might have to install 6 others first. Debian just takes care of all of that for you, or at least throws an error so you know things won't work.

    That's my two minute primar on apt/Debian that is probably completely wrong.

    I use the E17 window manager at home. It doesn't have all the crazy spinning cube effects or anything, but its got probably the fastest (and still pretty damn pretty) 2D gui I've ever seen on a Linux desktop. The window manager is a small small part of much much MUCH more powerful set of libraries for application development. Kinda like the next-next gen of Linux applications where the front end GUI is kept almost entirely separate from all the backend stuff. Its neat and has fantastic performance!
    http://www4.get-e.org/Screenshots/User_Submitted/_images/ubuntu_theme_2_jpg_preview.jpeg
    http://www4.get-e.org/Screenshots/User_Submitted/_images/ICE_theme_current_desktop_jpg_preview.jpeg

    God damn, I want e17 on my laptop. Isn't it pretty damn fast? I wish the e17 guide for gentoo fucking worked. Let me guess, you used someone's .deb's?

    suadeo on
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    RichardTauberRichardTauber Kvlt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    My soundcard isn't working in Ubuntu. Hrm. Any ideas?

    RichardTauber on
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    rayofashrayofash Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    My soundcard isn't working in Ubuntu. Hrm. Any ideas?

    Is it muted? For some reason it keeps muting for me on startup, it used to do this in Ubuntu as well if I remember correctly.

    rayofash on
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    DigDug2000DigDug2000 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    suadeo wrote: »
    DigDug2000 wrote: »
    So I don't know if it was explained well, but Ubuntu/SUSE/Other are all linux distributions. Ubuntu happens to be a debian distribution. Basically that means it uses a particular method for installing/uninstalling stuff. You can use Ubuntu's GUI to do it with the package manager, or you can use the command line:

    sudo apt-get install <package-name>

    sudo just puts you into super user mode for this command, bypassing pretty much all security.
    apt-get is the program used for downloading packages from the repositories and then installing the package
    install is just an option to install, there are others like "remove"
    and then the name of the program you want to install
    you can use: sudo apt-cache search <regexp> to look for packages from the command line.

    Linux is a mess because everything depends on everything else. So to install one package you might have to install 6 others first. Debian just takes care of all of that for you, or at least throws an error so you know things won't work.

    That's my two minute primar on apt/Debian that is probably completely wrong.

    I use the E17 window manager at home. It doesn't have all the crazy spinning cube effects or anything, but its got probably the fastest (and still pretty damn pretty) 2D gui I've ever seen on a Linux desktop. The window manager is a small small part of much much MUCH more powerful set of libraries for application development. Kinda like the next-next gen of Linux applications where the front end GUI is kept almost entirely separate from all the backend stuff. Its neat and has fantastic performance!
    http://www4.get-e.org/Screenshots/User_Submitted/_images/ubuntu_theme_2_jpg_preview.jpeg
    http://www4.get-e.org/Screenshots/User_Submitted/_images/ICE_theme_current_desktop_jpg_preview.jpeg

    God damn, I want e17 on my laptop. Isn't it pretty damn fast? I wish the e17 guide for gentoo fucking worked. Let me guess, you used someone's .deb's?
    Yeah. I used to compile it by hand, but it took forever. There are scripts out there that will do it and make sure everything is done in order if you're into that. It certainly felt a little quicker that way, but yeah, E17 is hella fast even on my shitty home machine. I can't stand trying to dick around in GNOME anymore. There is a repository for Ubuntu over at:

    https://launchpad.net/e17-repository

    There's also a live CD, but from the video it looks like its way behind the trunk builds.

    DigDug2000 on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Hey, uhh, whenever I try and open synaptic I get this message:
    E: Invalid record in the preferences file, no Package header
    E: _cache->open() failed, please report.
    
    

    I was fucking with things, trying to get Beryl to work (Jesus Christ, it's a lot of work with my ATI card) and now this happened. What did I do, and how do I fix it?

    Darmak on
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    RichardTauberRichardTauber Kvlt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    rayofash wrote: »
    My soundcard isn't working in Ubuntu. Hrm. Any ideas?

    Is it muted? For some reason it keeps muting for me on startup, it used to do this in Ubuntu as well if I remember correctly.

    No, Ubuntu can't recognize my soundcard. Seems a lot of people are having this problem with the latest Feisty. SB450 is the shit. Literally.

    RichardTauber on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Nevermind, I'm fucking stupid and deleted some stuff from a certain file.

    Darmak on
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    SeeksSeeks Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Some basic things:

    A few people have already gone over what distros are, so I won't bother. Some of the more popular ones are Ubuntu (or Kubuntu), Fedora (the free version of Red Hat), Mandriva (previously Mandrake), Slackware, SuSE, and Knoppix.

    You can find these and a shitload of others at distrowatch.org. Or .com... I can't remember.


    Desktop Environments: Gnome and KDE are the most popular, and are probably the best ones to start out on. I used to prefer KDE, but honestly, I stopped caring a while ago. They both get the same thing done, which is, they are the GUI (the "Windows") that make using linux easier.


    Common apps:

    Web browsing - Firefox (all), Konqueror (however it's spelled... it's KDE's "IE"), Epiphany (Gnome's "IE"), operah (not usually pre-installed).

    IM: GAIM and a few others. Most of them let you use any of the IM protocols you like (MSN, AIM, ICQ, etc.).

    Office: OpenOffice.Org (probably the best, usually comes with 'em), KOffice (or KWord, or whateverthefuck), etc.

    Multimedia: Totem (I think it plays movies and music, can't recall off the top of my head), "Movie Player" (generic, but it gets the point across), XMMS (linux's Winamp), Mplayer (one of the best, cross-platform but not usually pre-installed), Kaffeine, Amarok (both music players, maybe movies too).

    One annoying aspect about Linux is that you need to go out of your way to get the proper codecs for shit that "just works" on windows, for copyright reasons. This includes MP3s, for most distros. They're usually pretty easy to find, especially if you're running Ubuntu.

    CD/DVD writing: K3B (or KIIIB, however you wish to spell it) is all you'll ever need, though any given distro usually has its own shitty native app as well. I believe it also rips, too.

    Ripping: Juicer, though I've had problems with it. Meaning, the tracks were fucked up. Your mileage may vary.

    Graphics: The GIMP, photoshop's retarded cousin. Hey, it's free... and pretty good, considering that. If you're used to photoshop, you may get frustrated at it occasionally, but you will persevere, I have faith in you, Amen.



    I've never gotten Linux to work with wireless, though that's broadcom's fault. No, not even NDISwrapper is of any use. I can't recall whether or not both ATI and NVidia have drivers for download on their sites, but generally, it's worth the bother to download theirs and follow their installation instructions to get "official" video drivers for your *nix.

    Linux is fun. Shame I can't use it to play games, or wirelessly. Either one alone isn't enough to disqualify it, but sadly, both combined make it pretty useless to me. Ah well... she's always there for me when my harddrives die and can't be accessed by windows for whatever reasons.

    Seeks on
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    alcoholic_engineeralcoholic_engineer Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Seeks reminded me. Amarok is perhaps the greatest music program ever made. It is pretty simple to use, but has some functions that I have never seen anywhere else.

    As you are listening to music, amarok can pull up the lyrics and the wikipedia entry for the band just for a random example of what the thing does.

    alcoholic_engineer on
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    rayofashrayofash Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Amarok is amazing. I wish there were a Windows version.

    rayofash on
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    MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I have so much trouble getting studio/production software to work in Linux (and no luck getting JACK to work unfortunately which kills half the software right there) that I am in Windows most (basically all) of the time just so I can record music, as none my usual stuff works right under Wine and recording is borked in VMware.

    Honestly at this point if some company like Sony or Steinberg or Image-Line released a Linux version of their stuff I'd pay them all over again.

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    rayofash wrote: »
    Amarok is amazing. I wish there were a Windows version.

    AFAIK it's being worked on. :)

    Zilla360 on
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    Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator Mod Emeritus
    edited July 2007
    Amarok is the most superior music player i've ever seen

    Moe Fwacky on
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    FremFrem Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Moe_Fwacky wrote: »
    Amarok is the most superior music player i've ever seen

    Go check out XMMS2. Also, Shellac. It looks like foobar2000. This excites me.

    Frem on
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    PhotonPhoton Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Just wanted to post and say that this thread inspired me to try out some different window managers :) just installed XFCE and wow! its almost scary how fast and snappy everything seems.

    One problem im having though, when i maximise a window, the very bottom ends up under the panel, often blocking off scrollbars etc ... i want it to stop at the top of it .. anyone know of a setting for this?

    Photon on
    PSN: photon_86
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    MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Made sure the panel isn't set to Always On Top?

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

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    SushisourceSushisource Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Wow, I'm posting from Archlinux using wmii. Varland inspired me. It is awesome and fast.

    One question though? How I got fonts? This one is major uggs.

    Sushisource on
    Some drugee on Kavinsky's 1986
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    phantommaggotphantommaggot Registered User new member
    edited July 2007
    ive been in and out of linux, and the only reason im not using it now is because i had a wlan fuckup...
    i use ubuntu normally, but id suggest mephis to anyone new to linux.

    i also like linux mint, and you can get it in alot of configs as well.

    i love linux, and it is the future :)

    phantommaggot on
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    rayofashrayofash Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Wow, I'm posting from Archlinux using wmii. Varland inspired me. It is awesome and fast.

    One question though? How I got fonts? This one is major uggs.

    How I got fonts?

    pacman -S ttf-ms-fonts I think.

    rayofash on
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    RichardTauberRichardTauber Kvlt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    No sound yet but everything else works like a charm. Linux is making me happy. In the pants.

    RichardTauber on
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    imbalancedimbalanced Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    No sound yet but everything else works like a charm. Linux is making me happy. In the pants.

    Sound can be tricky. A lot of times your sound card is working, you just have the wrong mixer settings. I would start by messing around in the mixer, unless your distro isn't even detecting the sound card.

    EDIT: Oh I see it's a hardware/Feisty issue. I'm looking to see if there's a fix.
    Check here, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=415821&highlight=SB450+no+sound&page=9

    imbalanced on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well, I decided that Beryl is a doomed project so I've given up on it for now, but instead got UT2k4 working which is good because it's one of my favourite games ever and lets me get my gaming fix while running linux.

    Darmak on
    JtgVX0H.png
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    NackmatholnNackmatholn Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well I've gotten my wireless issues resolved, the Atheros drivers were fixed in the latest Feisty Fawn (Ubuntu), And i've gotten Second Life to run in Ubuntu, which is amazing as I couldn't under windows... got a quick question though Darmak, how did you get UT2K4 to work in the Linux? Wine? Native?

    Nackmatholn on
    camo_sig2.png PSN - Nackmatholn
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well I've gotten my wireless issues resolved, the Atheros drivers were fixed in the latest Feisty Fawn (Ubuntu), And i've gotten Second Life to run in Ubuntu, which is amazing as I couldn't under windows... got a quick question though Darmak, how did you get UT2K4 to work in the Linux? Wine? Native?

    IIRC, there's a Linux binary and an installer included on the retail disc.

    japan on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    japan wrote: »
    Well I've gotten my wireless issues resolved, the Atheros drivers were fixed in the latest Feisty Fawn (Ubuntu), And i've gotten Second Life to run in Ubuntu, which is amazing as I couldn't under windows... got a quick question though Darmak, how did you get UT2K4 to work in the Linux? Wine? Native?

    IIRC, there's a Linux binary and an installer included on the retail disc.

    Yup, I just popped in my disc and ran the linux installer. Then I went and patched it and got the mega pack and the community bonus packs and now I'm happy. It runs smooth as silk and it still looks pretty good considering it was released 3 years ago. It's been far too long since I last played, I'm glad I decided to install it.

    Darmak on
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    NackmatholnNackmatholn Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Nifty, I hope its on the Unreal Collection disk, Checking now! (thinking of completely ditching Win if someone tells me i can run guildwars and Halflife 2 here in ole ubuntu)

    Nackmatholn on
    camo_sig2.png PSN - Nackmatholn
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Nifty, I hope its on the Unreal Collection disk, Checking now! (thinking of completely ditching Win if someone tells me i can run guildwars and Halflife 2 here in ole ubuntu)

    You can run Guild Wars through Wine (so I hear, I haven't tried it myself) and I imagine it would also work for HL2. I can't guarantee HL2 will run well in Wine though I hear GW does so fuck, I don't know. :lol:

    Darmak on
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    NackmatholnNackmatholn Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    yeah, the Unreal Anthology doesn't have any of the linux installers on it :(

    It seems i can get the lot of it to run under Cedega if I'm willing to pay for it... I might be.

    Nackmatholn on
    camo_sig2.png PSN - Nackmatholn
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    PhotonPhoton Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    So i have just had a happy day of linux fiddling :)

    having a couple issues that i _think_ are unavoidable but if anyone has had experience of running dual monitors with a different resolution on each, and using compiz, i'd appreciate to know how they did it :) (though that is some quite specific criteria :S)

    Photon on
    PSN: photon_86
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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Both Half Life 2 and Guild Wars run okay in Wine (with bugs), check http://appdb.winehq.org/ for all the info.
    Most annoying bug with Guild Wars is getting stuck at loading screens, and the cursor occasionally disappearing. :(

    Zilla360 on
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    SushisourceSushisource Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    rayofash wrote: »
    Wow, I'm posting from Archlinux using wmii. Varland inspired me. It is awesome and fast.

    One question though? How I got fonts? This one is major uggs.

    How I got fonts?

    pacman -S ttf-ms-fonts I think.

    Sweet. Now I got fonts. I just have to figure out how to use them in wmii. My wmiir is all fixed nau!

    Sushisource on
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    MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Why would people still be installing Beryl? It would make much more sense to use Compiz with extras as the projects are remerging and using Compiz-core as a base.

    Compiz seems faster and slightly more stable anyway, and ties in with Gnome settings and Metacity themes instead of having everything self contained.

    Edit: Also, I run GW in Wine. Runs fine for the most part. I'd suggest running it through a terminal so you can kill it and start it again if it hangs on the initial load.

    And yeah the cursor sometimes disappears, usually fixable by right clicking a couple times. Also, last time I tried it combat sounds weren't working but that was 3 versions ago.

    Mblackwell on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Why would people still be installing Beryl? It would make much more sense to use Compiz with extras as the projects are remerging and using Compiz-core as a base.

    Compiz seems faster and slightly more stable anyway, and ties in with Gnome settings and Metacity themes instead of having everything self contained.

    Edit: Also, I run GW in Wine. Runs fine for the most part. I'd suggest running it through a terminal so you can kill it and start it again if it hangs on the initial load.

    And yeah the cursor sometimes disappears, usually fixable by right clicking a couple times. Also, last time I tried it combat sounds weren't working but that was 3 versions ago.

    While I hear Compiz is supposed to be faster and more stable, I think Beryl at the moment has more options and pretty effects and whatnot. I wouldn't know, I couldn't get the thing to run and I only got the desktop cube effects that come with Ubuntu to work once, after that it stopped for whatever reason.
    Also, Photon, while I may not try Compiz out, I will be trying to set up dual monitors with different resolutions soon. I'll let you know how that works out. (unless you already have them set up, in which case I'd like to hear anything you may have to say on the matter)

    Darmak on
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    RichardTauberRichardTauber Kvlt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    imbalanced wrote: »
    No sound yet but everything else works like a charm. Linux is making me happy. In the pants.

    Sound can be tricky. A lot of times your sound card is working, you just have the wrong mixer settings. I would start by messing around in the mixer, unless your distro isn't even detecting the sound card.

    EDIT: Oh I see it's a hardware/Feisty issue. I'm looking to see if there's a fix.
    Check here, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=415821&highlight=SB450+no+sound&page=9

    I've seen that and tried those solutions to no avail. Thanks anyways though. C:

    RichardTauber on
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    PhotonPhoton Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Darmak i've got dual monitors working nicely thanks :) and while i think the process is different for nvidia etc, if you have an ati card ill be happy to send my xorg.conf over to save you the hour or so of twiddling and restarting that it took me :) there are plenty tutorials online too, though not all i tried seemed to actually work :s

    My problem is the way xgl treats the dual monitors, whereas in plain gnome it works as i would expect, XGL doesnt seem to acknowledge that it is actually 2 screens, rather than 1 huge desktop (windows maximize accross both screens, panels go the whole way accross rather than staying on main monitor etc) also because i have a different resolution on each, and the way the panels stretch, the bottom panel is off the bottom of one of my screens :< So at the moment on XGL its dual monitors without any of the benefits of dual monitors, which makes it pretty unusable for me :(

    The good news for you is that it worked fine for me normally and wasnt too much of a pain to set up .. just no compiz prettys :(

    Photon on
    PSN: photon_86
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Photon wrote: »
    Darmak i've got dual monitors working nicely thanks :) and while i think the process is different for nvidia etc, if you have an ati card ill be happy to send my xorg.conf over to save you the hour or so of twiddling and restarting that it took me :) there are plenty tutorials online too, though not all i tried seemed to actually work :s

    My problem is the way xgl treats the dual monitors, whereas in plain gnome it works as i would expect, XGL doesnt seem to acknowledge that it is actually 2 screens, rather than 1 huge desktop (windows maximize accross both screens, panels go the whole way accross rather than staying on main monitor etc) also because i have a different resolution on each, and the way the panels stretch, the bottom panel is off the bottom of one of my screens :< So at the moment on XGL its dual monitors without any of the benefits of dual monitors, which makes it pretty unusable for me :(

    The good news for you is that it worked fine for me normally and wasnt too much of a pain to set up .. just no compiz prettys :(

    Yes I do have an ati card, and if you would like to email me your xorg.conf that'd be pretty fucking swell of you. I'll send you a PM. :)

    Darmak on
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    RichardTauberRichardTauber Kvlt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Please allow me to lick the collective balls of all Linux-people by saying it's been a pleasure seeing how complete strangers devote so much time helping eachother.

    RichardTauber on
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    DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    xorg.conf over to save you the hour or so of twiddling and restarting that it took me

    Ctrl + Alt + Backspace is your friend ;)

    It seems Twinview is more intelligent than whatever the ATI drivers do. Icons and Windows remain on the correct screen. (Maybe its more of a Window manager issue). Personally I use AXGL and Beryl.

    Dratatoo on
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