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Linux Thread - beta version 5 build 6200 alpha release 2

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    Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2007
    I wouldn't know how long it takes me to boot Kubuntu, because I never shut my computer off.

    Moe Fwacky on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    My laptop boots into KDE under PCLinuxOS at a hair over 28 seconds.

    As compared to just shy of 37 seconds under Kubuntu.

    I bet either of them would resume from suspend in <1 second. Does anybody still do full shut downs, except for patches? Even dual-booting can be made easier by hibernating.

    Janin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Yeah, I have Ubuntu on my laptop as well. If I was using my desktop I'd probably keep it up all the time.

    Malkor on
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Janin wrote: »
    naporeon wrote: »
    My laptop boots into KDE under PCLinuxOS at a hair over 28 seconds.

    As compared to just shy of 37 seconds under Kubuntu.

    I bet either of them would resume from suspend in <1 second. Does anybody still do full shut downs, except for patches? Even dual-booting can be made easier by hibernating.

    For me, suspend-to-ram doesn't work, and suspend-to-disk of course takes longer than one second.

    Daedalus on
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    naporeonnaporeon Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Same here.

    I've tried all manner of ACPI fuckery, but nothing actually does anything. Wait, that's a lie. Suspend-to-disk actually drops my lappy with a judo chop to the manberries.

    I'm open to suggestions, though. I'm hardly an expert.

    naporeon on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I've been working on the album art thumbnailer. Progress! It's now very, very easy for any fellow Ubuntu Gutsy users to install, and moderately easy for other distros (standard configure, make, make install). It's also faster and supports FLAC.

    thumbnailsvn9.th.png

    What is it?
    I got tired of the default audio file icon in Nautilus appearing for all my music, so I wrote a GNOME thumbnailer to liven things up. If an audio file contains metadata describing cover art, that art will now be displayed as a thumbnail for that picture.

    Capabilities
    Can handle FLAC, Ogg/Vorbis, and MP3 files currently.

    Installation
    Add the following source lines in Synaptic to use my PPA for these:
    deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jmillikin/ubuntu gutsy main
    deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/jmillikin/ubuntu gutsy main
    

    You'll want to install/upgrade the following packages:
    • audio-thumbnailers - The thumbnail programs themselves.
    • libgnomeui (and etc) - Allow multiple thumbnailers to be registered for each MIME-type. See GNOME bug #497264
    • vorbis-tools - If you want to use my script for adding art to Ogg/Vorbis files. The vorbis-tools in Ubuntu's repository has a bug with long comments.

    Restart nautilus at a terminal with nautilus -q && nautilus &, or just log out and back in.

    Tagging your music
    • FLAC: Use metaflac --import-picture-from=cover.jpg file1.flac file2.flac ...
    • Ogg/Vorbis: I couldn't find any taggers that support Ogg/Vorbis, so I made a simple command-line one. You'll need the patched vorbis-tools in my PPA. My script can be found in http://pastebin.com/f7835ed27.
    • Ogg/FLAC: Not supported, since libFLAC's metadata reading seems to choke. Advise and patches eagerly accepted.
    • MP3: I've had the best luck using iTunes. Easytag seems to generate invalid metadata if you use it to store JPEG covers, but perhaps it works with PNG?
    • Other: If you have another format you'd like to see supported, upload a test file and post the link. Best luck will be for formats with C-accessible open-source parsing libraries.

    How broken is it?

    Maybe broken, this is the first time anybody other than me has used this. If you have any problems (Nautilus hanging, incorrect thumbnails, etc) please post.

    If you find that thumbnailing .ogg files is intolerably slow, try renaming them to .oga. If files are named .ogg, Nautilus will run Totem's video thumbnailer on them before mine.

    Janin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    SilvoculousSilvoculous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    naporeon wrote: »
    My laptop boots into KDE under PCLinuxOS at a hair over 28 seconds.

    As compared to just shy of 37 seconds under Kubuntu.

    This might not be a valid concurrence, considering that the amount of services that run at boot will vary, along with several other factors, but I'm more or less in the same boat. Taking into consideration all of the full-sized distros that I've tried (and there are very few that I haven't), Mandriva/PCLinuxOS has always been the fastest-booting. Ubuntu, for me at least, is one of the slowest.

    Now you did say that ease of maintenance is a big deciding factor in choosing a distro, but I think that applies more to your desktop environment. Any distro installed with KDE is going to have only very little variances in customization, and I've always backed KDE as the ideal environment to use. I don't feel anywhere near as free with my system when using GNOME or XFCE.

    Silvoculous on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Is boot time even a useful metric? It's rare that I do a full rebooting. Hibernate is the best, and most distros probably have similar wakeup times.

    MKR on
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    SushisourceSushisource Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Okay, so I found this a while ago but I can't find it again now. Can anyone tell me how to configure my bash settings so that if a type a few characters, then press up in history, it will only go through those entries witch start with the same chars?

    Sushisource on
    Some drugee on Kavinsky's 1986
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    TorgoTorgo Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Okay, so I found this a while ago but I can't find it again now. Can anyone tell me how to configure my bash settings so that if a type a few characters, then press up in history, it will only go through those entries witch start with the same chars?

    The Tab key?

    Torgo on
    History is a spoiler for the future. (Me on Twitter)
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    BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Torgo wrote: »
    Okay, so I found this a while ago but I can't find it again now. Can anyone tell me how to configure my bash settings so that if a type a few characters, then press up in history, it will only go through those entries witch start with the same chars?

    The Tab key?

    That is just tab completion. He wants so if he were to type ssh in the terminal and then scroll upwards only entries that started with "ssh" would be listed.

    EDIT: Check the bash manpage for "history-search-forward" and "history-search-backward".

    Barrakketh on
    Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Okay, so I found this a while ago but I can't find it again now. Can anyone tell me how to configure my bash settings so that if a type a few characters, then press up in history, it will only go through those entries witch start with the same chars?

    I believe the default keybinding is CTRL+R.

    Janin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    SushisourceSushisource Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Janin wrote: »
    Okay, so I found this a while ago but I can't find it again now. Can anyone tell me how to configure my bash settings so that if a type a few characters, then press up in history, it will only go through those entries witch start with the same chars?

    I believe the default keybinding is CTRL+R.

    No, it wasn't that. It was a setting in the .bashrc file (i think) that made it so that when you pressed the up arrow it would only go to entries that started with what you had already typed so far.

    Sushisource on
    Some drugee on Kavinsky's 1986
    kavinskysig.gif
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Janin wrote: »
    Okay, so I found this a while ago but I can't find it again now. Can anyone tell me how to configure my bash settings so that if a type a few characters, then press up in history, it will only go through those entries witch start with the same chars?

    I believe the default keybinding is CTRL+R.

    No, it wasn't that. It was a setting in the .bashrc file (i think) that made it so that when you pressed the up arrow it would only go to entries that started with what you had already typed so far.

    Yeah, but what you do is change the keybinding for searching the history from CTRL+R to whatever you want. I don't remember what the key codes for the up/down arrow keys are, but here's the lines I have in ~/.inputrc for searching using the page up/down keys:
    # In ~/.inputrc
    "\e[5~": history-search-backward
    "\e[6~": history-search-forward
    

    Janin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    FremFrem Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Has anyone else had an absolutely horrible experience upgrading from one Ubuntu version to another? I don't even know why they put the updater in; it took nine hours to leave me with a messed up system.

    I think I'm gonna end up wiping the whole thing and doing a clean install. Grr.

    Frem on
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    MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Yes, I was fine on Edgy to Feisty, but it the updater royally messed up Feisty to Gutsy.

    It messed up quite a few things actually and I had to do some clever package management and I think even some APT-pinning and removal of certain packages. It was quite a pain. Took me a few hours to fix. I ended up reinstalling ubuntu-desktop and a few other packages, and I had to dick around forever to get rid of the old Compiz and install Compiz-Fusion and the appropriate tools.

    I may as well have just switched to Gutsy repos and updated that way. They recommend not to, I assume due to possible transition packages and setting them up correctly, but hell, it probably would have caused less trouble.

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2008
    Yeah, going from Fiesty to Gutsy made it completely lose track of my entire NTFS partition and I have to force-mount it to even be able to use it now.

    FyreWulff on
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    MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I hope Hardy only adds a few nicer GUI's for things and is mostly clean-up. Unfortunately they are doing things like switching to PulseAudio, which in theory is a good thing for the future but I expect some breakage. It's supposed to be an LTS release though so hopefully it will get treated nicely with frequent bug fixes.

    Edgy for me was slightly unstable but Fiesty was awesome, and Gutsy seems slightly psycho at times (for instance it now takes 40 seconds to load the desktop after login from a clean boot) but it has so many nice updates going back to Feisty wouldn't be worth it.

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

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    Moe FwackyMoe Fwacky Right Here, Right Now Drives a BuickModerator Mod Emeritus
    edited January 2008
    I still haven't updated from Feisty to Gutsy due to the extreme pain in the ass it was to upgrade from Edgy to Feisty. I ran through the whole update, and it completely fubared my install and I ended up installing clean anyway.

    Moe Fwacky on
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    BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    _______moe wrote: »
    I still haven't updated from Feisty to Gutsy due to the extreme pain in the ass it was to upgrade from Edgy to Feisty. I ran through the whole update, and it completely fubared my install and I ended up installing clean anyway.

    I upgraded from Feisty to Gutsy two weeks prior to release. The only thing that gave me trouble during the upgrade was GIMP, and I imagine that would be fixed by now.

    Barrakketh on
    Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    So, I've got a bit of a problem that I could use some help with, which is weird since I'm usually the guy answering these kind of questions.

    I'm on vacation and I've got my laptop and my 360. At my own house, I can just plug my 360 into the router and everything is fine. At my parents' house, we've got wireless, and I'll be damned if I'm paying a hundred fucking dollars for the 360 wi-fi adapter. So I've got my laptop (eth1) connected to the wireless router and my 360 plugged into my laptop over ethernet (eth0). I'm running Kubuntu, the latest version.

    How do I make it all work? My laptop is getting access just fine (obviously; I'm using it to type this) but I haven't the first damn clue how to make it forward everything necessary to my 360. It seems like it should be easy and I'm just missing something obvious. Anyone know how to get it to work?

    Daedalus on
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    RohaqRohaq UKRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Try this link regarding network bridging:
    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkConnectionBridge

    You'll likely lose it when you reboot, however, so you'll have to add the appropriate commands to your rc.local to execute on startup.

    Rohaq on
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    SilvoculousSilvoculous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Frem wrote: »
    Has anyone else had an absolutely horrible experience upgrading from one Ubuntu version to another? I don't even know why they put the updater in; it took nine hours to leave me with a messed up system.

    I think I'm gonna end up wiping the whole thing and doing a clean install. Grr.

    Edgy to Feisty left me shivering like a little boy in my room in the dark. I could have been sleeping.

    Ended up reinstalling from scratch. If you have /home and /usr on a separate partition then it's not all that painful.

    Silvoculous on
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    halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I have never been able to upgrade a linux anything to anything. I usually just wipe after a few years and start fresh with a new distro. That's one of downfalls of Linux in general.

    On the flip side, that's usually how long it takes for some kind of "best in show" linux distro to take the crown.

    halkun on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Oddly, I've never had a problem whatsoever upgrading. Most of my reinstalls are due to mucking around with one too many vital system components and rendering the system unbootable or unusable. In fact, the last reinstall on my desktop was Gentoo -> Ubuntu Breezy (currently running Gutsy).

    Janin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I think you guys are probably the people I should be asking about this. My mother was given a replacement computer by a friend that didn't have an operating system installed. She is quite insistent that everything on it be nice and legit so, since she doesn't have a windows CD and didn't want to spend money to buy XP, I decided to install Linux on it. The computer is old (I think it's a PII 533 or something like that). She's normally a windows user but basically all it's needed for is word processing so I was planning on putting Ubuntu and Open Office onto it.

    Can anyone suggest an alternative distribution that I should be using? Another question is, should I use the most recent version of Ubuntu or try to find an older one? Any other suggestions? Which distribution is the most windows-like?

    Ed Gruberman on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I think you guys are probably the people I should be asking about this. My mother was given a replacement computer by a friend that didn't have an operating system installed. She is quite insistent that everything on it be nice and legit so, since she doesn't have a windows CD and didn't want to spend money to buy XP, I decided to install Linux on it. The computer is old (I think it's a PII 533 or something like that). She's normally a windows user but basically all it's needed for is word processing so I was planning on putting Ubuntu and Open Office onto it.

    Can anyone suggest an alternative distribution that I should be using? Another question is, should I use the most recent version of Ubuntu or try to find an older one? Any other suggestions? Which distribution is the most windows-like?

    You might want to go with Xubuntu instead, since it has a lighter footprint. Use the latest version, Linux and OS X both get faster over time. Make sure to install Abiword, since it starts up significantly faster than OO.

    Janin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    SilvoculousSilvoculous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Any distro that comes with XFCE ought to do you fine. I've had better experiences with Zenwalk than with Xubuntu, but I like both. XFCE looks really nice, too, so you won't be sacrificing eye candy for performance.

    Silvoculous on
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    Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    That's a great help. Thanks a lot. Since my mother isn't particularly computer-savvy, and she sort of knows windows, which would be the most similar so that I don't get a phone call every time she wants to turn on her computer? I'll get both of them and try them out but I'm curious what you guys think.

    Ed Gruberman on
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    SteamID: edgruberman GOG Galaxy: EdGruberman
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    SilvoculousSilvoculous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    It's often said that KDE is most like Windows and GNOME is most like OS X. Honestly, though, you can customize any one of them anyway you want; it's just that KDE is most like Windows by default.

    Any amount of tweaking will get you the desired results. Let me see if I can find some XFCE screens.

    Silvoculous on
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    theSquidtheSquid Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Arguably, people that aren't computer-savvy are the best targets for Linux because they're not "set in their ways". Power users and gamers are the ones that whinge when you try to convert them, because they can't find analogues to functions (well, hacks) in Windows, that aren't necessary in Linux.

    On both my laptop and my desktop the upgrade from 7.04 -> 7.10 Ubuntu has shit itself. I thought 7.10 was terrible. Then I did a clean install (which I always do with the alternate CD, in text mode... Ubuntu's LiveCD install has sometimes gone askew) and it's great! The backups were a pain, though.

    theSquid on
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    BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    theSquid wrote: »
    Arguably, people that aren't computer-savvy are the best targets for Linux because they're not "set in their ways". Power users and gamers are the ones that whinge when you try to convert them, because they can't find analogues to functions (well, hacks) in Windows, that aren't necessary in Linux.

    On both my laptop and my desktop the upgrade from 7.04 -> 7.10 Ubuntu has shit itself. I thought 7.10 was terrible. Then I did a clean install (which I always do with the alternate CD, in text mode... Ubuntu's LiveCD install has sometimes gone askew) and it's great! The backups were a pain, though.

    Backups shouldn't be a pain, because they shouldn't be necessary for a reinstall. If you partitioned your drive correctly /home will have a partition all to itself, and the only thing you need to backup are any custom configuration files that live in /etc.

    Barrakketh on
    Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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    SilvoculousSilvoculous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Anybody care to try KDE 4?

    Downloading now.

    Silvoculous on
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    BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited January 2008

    I've tried it on my current installation, but I'm going to wait for a bit before giving it a real chance. I've had systemsettings crash on me, and it doesn't use my monitor's native resolution.

    If I log in with a "clean" .kde4 I can change it and it is happy. If I log out and back in it'll be back where it was before I changed it. If I open Display Settings it will try to change the resolution, but everything on the desktop disappears. I get a black box in the top left corner of the screen of the desktop's resolution before changing it, and the rest of my screen will be white where it should have "filled in" to. I said to hell with it and will wait for a while ;-) Konqueror isn't very happy with the Flash plugin, as the content will sometimes appear in the top left corner of the window.

    It will probably be a while before KDE 4 as a desktop environment is ready for general use. Even the release candidates were buggy as hell, and right now it is probably usable enough for a developer to port their application to Qt/KDE 4.

    I imagine that Hardy will have a more stable/usable desktop by the time it is released, and there are supposed to be maintenance releases every month by the KDE team. KDE 4.1 is supposed to be out in July, and I imagine things will be working nicely by the time Hardy's successor is released.

    Barrakketh on
    Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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    SilvoculousSilvoculous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    KDE 4 is looking great - I had to boot the LiveCD in Safe Graphics Mode (it kept hanging on the normal option) but besides that it was fine. I can see myself using and enjoying it in the future when 3.x finally begins to become obsolete, but at this point it doesn't have the features and applications I love built in. It's like it's still in beta right now. That, and it's coupled with Ubuntu in that link and dammit I hate Ubuntu

    Couldn't bring myself to try the OpenSUSE one that's floating around, so I'm just going to wait for 4.1.

    EDIT: OpenSUSE with KDE 4 is here if anyone cares.

    Silvoculous on
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    BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    KDE 4 doesn't have the features and applications I love built in.

    What applications are missing? Most of the KDE 3 applications I use have KDE 4 versions. k3b isn't there yet, but the authors should have started the port about a week ago.

    Barrakketh on
    Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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    SilvoculousSilvoculous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    What's missing? Basically everything. None of the big KDE programs are installed at all, and if they bothered to throw in some kind of replacement then I didn't see any. Not to mention there was hardly any configuring I could do to the system because Control Center was looking anemic. So much for Internet.

    Temptation will get the better of me eventually and I just know I'll end up downloading that OpenSUSE .iso. Gasp! KDE for Windows!

    The "Essential Windows Programs" thread has just been toppled.

    Silvoculous on
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    BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    What's missing? Basically everything. None of the big KDE programs are installed at all, and if they bothered to throw in some kind of replacement then I didn't see any.

    I don't know about the LiveCD, but on the PPA repository for Gutsy I see:
    • Kate
    • KWrite
    • Ark
    • Gwenview
    • KOffice
    • KTorrent
    • KWalletManager
    • Various parts of the KDE education, games, and multimedia packages

    among others. The KDE PIM package is more or less incomplete, so applications that ship as part of it won't be done until KDE 4.1 is released.

    Barrakketh on
    Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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    SilvoculousSilvoculous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    The most glaring absences I saw were k3b (which you mentioned), GIMP, AmaroK, etc. Not that I was majorly concerned with that at the get-go. It was that there were no network configuration tools, particularly for wireless. So there's that, and various configuration-related packages like kdmtheme are absent, and I didn't check for ndiswrapper but Ubuntu never installs that by default. I don't remember if KDE 3 was the same way when it came out.

    The "installer" for this KDE for Windows thing is a lot like the automators you often see for programs like Rockbox or GeeXboX that let you customize your .iso image. Select a download location, customize your selection of package sets, pick a mirror, and watch it download. It's doing so right now on my end - just coming to an end. I'll fire this up and see what I can make of it.

    Silvoculous on
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    BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    The most glaring absences I saw were k3b (which you mentioned), GIMP, AmaroK, etc. Not that I was majorly concerned with that at the get-go. It was that there were no network configuration tools, particularly for wireless.

    GIMP is a GTK+ application, so I'm not sure why that was even mentioned. Amarok's port will be released with version 2.0 (which will also run on Windows and OS X). The "standard" tool for for managing networks (especially wireless) in Ubuntu/Kubuntu is NetworkManager and the GNOME/KDE frontend for it. Since you seem to have a hard-on for SuSE, you might remember that Novell supported the development of KNetworkManager (the KDE frontend) for SuSE.

    And it isn't like you can't use KDE 3 applications in KDE 4, or vice versa.

    Barrakketh on
    Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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