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[Mini-Phalla] Logical Phallacy - What you can't seer can hurt you (EVIL VICTORY!)

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    cheezcheez Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Sweet, another person bent on my destruction. You can go over and stand with Ardor and DevoutlyApathetic.

    cheez on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    cheez wrote: »
    Sweet, another person bent on my destruction. You can go over and stand with Ardor and DevoutlyApathetic.

    It's because you are a crafty player, and hard to read. (tee hee)

    Ardor on
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    ZerinanZerinan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    We should start a club! The Cheez Haters club! HI5! But seriously, you will suffer.

    Edit: Ardor... umm.... Really? I'm sure Cheez is just pure evil, and pure evil is quite an easy read.

    Zerinan on
    6394_970621.png
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Here's the grand plan setup by DA to help us destroy Cheez!
    cheez wrote:
    Aye. Although I seem to have turned into a fairly popular target for evils lately, so maybe I should switch to a more balls-out playstyle.

    Not being able to play from work, however, isn't very conducive to that. In fact, it played quite a large role in my sluggishness this game.
    Alright guys, new plan.

    Ardor, Spectre listen up. From now on whenever we mention cheez we say "He's crafty player who's hard to read". If we repeat this for about a week it should soon be impossible for him to live past day 4.

    Alright, let's get crackin!
    cheez wrote:
    Ardor wrote:
    TehSpectre wrote:
    cheez wrote: »
    Awesome. Details, pretty please?
    It was probably because you're a crafty player who's hard to read.
    It's true, he is.

    Remember, he also took home the gold for his alien brethren in Ad Astra phalla.

    Shh! Shhhhh!
    cheez6 wrote:
    *smokescreen*
    *complicated reasoning*
    *uninterpretable statement*

    Guys, I can't get a read on this guy.
    cheez wrote:
    I love you guys.

    Ardor on
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    ZerinanZerinan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Ah. Alright, if we all join in we can get him dying before day 4 in under a week!

    Zerinan on
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    cheezcheez Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Okay, guys, role PMs are out. Frosteey has agreed to co-GM this game, so send all your orders to him as well as me.

    As usual, voting should be done in bold red: I vote for cheez because he's a crafty player who's hard to read.
    Retractions should be done in bold lime: I retract my vote for cheez because his lucid argument has swayed me like a willow in the wind.
    Outing yourself as a seer should be done in any other color.

    Day 1 ends tomorrow at 9pm PDT. There will be vote kills and evil kills on day 1, unlike the typical Dethy game setup.

    Game officially begins in about 20 minutes. Everybody who's not in the game will be expected to be silent at this point.

    cheez on
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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    GUYS GUYS GUESS WHAT

    I AM

    A SEER


    Oh boy oh boy

    Hakkekage on
    3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
    NNID: Hakkekage
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    No, I'm the seer! Hakkekage is obviously lying. GET HER.

    Ardor on
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    ZerinanZerinan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'm the guardian! Alright, I'll leave now. Jerks.

    Zerinan on
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    MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Okay, do we all want to seer the poor sap who gets bandwagoned, or do we all want to seer ourselves? Either of those sound like good plans, right? ... maybe?

    MrBlarney on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    The seering yourself plan has a lot of holes in it since people can craft different responses. If we want to do this right, we need everyone to seer themselves and we need to them give us their results in a pre-determined order to prevent responses from being adjusted.

    Alternatively, we can assume the people who tell us their responses last are more than likely our bad guys.

    For example, we could use the order on the sign up sheet or go alphabetically.

    Ardor on
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    cheezcheez Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    The game is on.

    cheez on
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    cheezcheez Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    To reiterate, all seering results show up in the narration itself.

    cheez on
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    MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Ah. So (clarification) the results of seering will be revealed publically, but not the players who are targeted? That makes things easier for the village, doesn't it? While we won't be able to say for sure anyone is innocent, I think the combination of the two plans could work to our advantage.

    MrBlarney on
    4463rwiq7r47.png
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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Ardor wrote: »
    No, I'm the seer! Hakkekage is obviously lying. GET HER.

    Do we have to make another deal here, mister?

    If I turn out a seer, you cry and wire me boatloads of cash. If you turn out a seer, I'll go on an internet shopping spree and get myself all sorts of cool shit.



    I'm getting good at this deal-making thing, here

    Hakkekage on
    3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
    NNID: Hakkekage
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    Ardor wrote: »
    No, I'm the seer! Hakkekage is obviously lying. GET HER.

    Do we have to make another deal here, mister?

    If I turn out a seer, you cry and wire me boatloads of cash. If you turn out a seer, I'll go on an internet shopping spree and get myself all sorts of cool shit.



    I'm getting good at this deal-making thing, here

    ....and what was I supposed to get out of the deal?


    The seering results make things easy. Really, we'd need at least 1-2 nights of kills to really make anything of the results. We do have a good chance of hitting someone with the vote though in retrospect, 25% even.

    Cheez, does it say who seered who or just that such and such seered this way?

    Also, do seering results occur even if the target dies? So if I seer myself and I die tonight, do those results get posted?

    Ardor on
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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Ardor wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    Ardor wrote: »
    No, I'm the seer! Hakkekage is obviously lying. GET HER.

    Do we have to make another deal here, mister?

    If I turn out a seer, you cry and wire me boatloads of cash. If you turn out a seer, I'll go on an internet shopping spree and get myself all sorts of cool shit.



    I'm getting good at this deal-making thing, here

    ....and what was I supposed to get out of the deal?

    Don't bother yourself about that right now.

    Hakkekage on
    3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
    NNID: Hakkekage
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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Sup folks.

    Seer, checking in.

    TehSpectre on
    9u72nmv0y64e.jpg
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Sup folks.

    Seer, checking in.

    Should we try for a tie vote again? I mean, with all these seers coming forward, it's got to work this time!*

    *I do not actually endorse a tie vote here.

    Ardor on
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    P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Die TehSpectre
    This is payback, bitch
    Join in, everyone

    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
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    P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Right, so as I understand it the villains don't get a seering of any kind. I'm fairly certain we can use this against them, although I'm having problems coming up with a fool-proof method.

    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
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    Cold Salmon and HatredCold Salmon and Hatred __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    !grudgevote DA for being an idiot last game

    Cold Salmon and Hatred on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    If everything shows up in the narration as to who got seered, yeah, it's easy. Everyone seers themselves.

    I'm not so sure it's going to be that easy though.

    Ardor on
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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    How about: If you don't seer yourself tonight, we'll kill you tomorrow? Just a little incentive, is all.

    Hakkekage on
    3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
    NNID: Hakkekage
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    P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I doubt winning will be quite that easy, although I would wonder if Cheez could clarify two things

    1: Can we target ourselves with our seering powers
    and 2: By, the results being shown in the narration, you do mean showing who was seered which way, right? I.E: if I seer Ardor, the narration would say something like "Ardor was seered to be (X)"


    Just looking back at the first post of the thread, and as it turns out each baddie team (of the 2) gets one seering, which they can dictate how the results come out to be. Still, the "seer yourself" plan, if it works out, would net us half the baddies (seeing as they can only seer one of themselves)

    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    How about: If you don't seer yourself tonight, we'll kill you tomorrow? Just a little incentive, is all.

    I'm kinda wondering if it'll be like Drez's phalla where it'll say Ardor was analyzed or something. If so, if everyone seers themselves, that should leave 4 people out of the narration and those are the people we kill.

    Like I said, if that's the case, I would assume Cheez will make sure it isn't that easy.

    From a statistical standpoint, let's assume that's true and assume the worst case scenario tonight.

    3 innocents die, 13 people left and 4 bad guys are identified.

    Day 2 results, 3 bad guys, 11 innocents.
    Day 3 results, 2 bad guys, 9 innocents.
    Day 4 results. 1 bad guy, 7 innocents.
    Day 5 results, 0 bad guys, 6 innocents.

    I'd have to assume Cheez knows this and will take action to make sure we don't win this easily.

    Ardor on
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    P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Evils must submit their team kill as well as send me targets for each of them to "seer," and what result they want shown for their "seering."

    No go for the plan.

    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
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    cheezcheez Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Okay, so after hashing things out a bit, here's what we're doing.

    Seering results will be shown as "[Name] seered as good/evil." The name of the person who seered them will not be narrated.

    A seering issued by a person who gets killed that night will not be narrated.

    Rule change: rather than narrating the full distribution of roles that died on a given night, I will merely note whether or not any evils died that night.


    I hope this balances things out a bit, but again, it's hard to say. Simulations don't help much.

    cheez on
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    cheezcheez Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Yes, evils will be submitting artificial seer results. That's kind of the entire point of the game.

    Yes, you may seer yourself.

    cheez on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Ah, good deal.

    Well, we all need to figure out what kind of seers we are, so I think we still need to seer ourselves to figure it out. That information will be very handy in the late game.

    Hence, since today's the usual lucky draw and such, I think we need to seer ourselves to figure out what we seer as. This also helps the bad guys to not seer us because they will now stand out tonight. They will not be able to skew our results as we won't know the results of our individual seerings it seems, since everything is in the narration instead. Hence, instead of letting the bad guys go skew our data, let's control night 1 and get the facts straight.

    Ardor on
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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Die TehSpectre
    This is payback, bitch
    Join in, everyone

    Yes, let's join in on killing one of the few people who did anything productive last game.Genius.Is Fembot playing? Ah, yes. !vote Fembot.

    TehSpectre on
    9u72nmv0y64e.jpg
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Die TehSpectre
    This is payback, bitch
    Join in, everyone

    Yes, let's join in on killing one of the few people who did anything productive last game.Genius.Is Fembot playing? Ah, yes. !vote Fembot.

    To be fair, most of us didn't have the ability to do anything other than vote. Keep that in mind when you decide to push us all down a bit, champ.

    Ardor on
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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Rawr.

    I understand that, but most of the players just followed one player after another. It usually isn't that bad, but the whole "sheep effect" really kicked in last game.

    I'm still a tad bitter.

    Let's fix this.

    <3<3<3

    Grudges, be gone!

    TehSpectre on
    9u72nmv0y64e.jpg
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    FunkyWaltDoggFunkyWaltDogg Columbia, SCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I think Ardor has got the right idea. There's really no better way to get information about our respective seering abilities.

    FunkyWaltDogg on
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    MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Okay, clarifications sound good to me, and seem quite in line with the normal Dethy rules.

    So for night 1, we all seer ourselves. On further nights, we announce in the thread who our targets were.

    For now, I !vote to kill PRETENTIOUS. You seem like a fishy character, what with a name like that.

    MrBlarney on
    4463rwiq7r47.png
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    B:LB:L I've done worse. Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Ok, let's think Ardor's plan through:

    12 good guys: 3 true seers, 3 naive seers (always come up innocent), 3 paranoid seers (always come up guilty), and 3 insane seers (always come up incorrect). The innocents must untangle the mess of seer results to figure out who's who.

    The 4 evils must kill each other and the village. (kekeke)

    So we seer ourselves, knowing we're innnocent:

    The true seers and naive seers see "innocent".

    The paranoid seers and insane seers see "evil".

    The false seers see whatever seems believable.


    Soo...what goes on the second night? We can't "prove" a seer through the death results clearly, because of the lack of role reveals in the narration. Should we try breaking up into groups of fours on the second night, then each group seers one person in their group? I'm thinking that will prevent evils from messing up the results, and through logic tables each group can derive their own seering results. Switch around the groups every night as well.

    Clarification: Seer results are PMed to the seer as well, correct?

    As for the vote, let grudges be grudges:

    !Vote Xevo

    B:L on
    10mvrci.png click for Anime chat
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Unless a bad guy would like to identify him/herself tomorrow night, everyone will be seering themselves. We should have 6 innocents and 3 guilty show up, then we have 4 alternate seerings. They get to choose what they show up as, but we can start weeding people out by the results alone.

    We've got some time to talk this over though before the first day ends, perhaps there will be other alternatives out there to think about as well.

    Ardor on
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    cheezcheez Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Seer results are not PMed to the seer.

    cheez on
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    B:LB:L I've done worse. Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Ardor wrote: »
    Unless a bad guy would like to identify him/herself tomorrow night, everyone will be seering themselves. We should have 6 innocents and 3 guilty show up, then we have 4 alternate seerings. They get to choose what they show up as, but we can start weeding people out by the results alone.

    We've got some time to talk this over though before the first day ends, perhaps there will be other alternatives out there to think about as well.
    Hmm, I'm thinking of a tweak to your plan.

    The seers already know that they're innocent, so seering themselves bears no results other than a clue to their seering ability.

    How about a cascading model of seering, where everyone seers the person under them on the list on the first night, then one more down the subsequent nights? That way, players can get a clue about their abilities and the identity of their targets based on the narrations.

    This plan can also be enacted after Ardor's plan, for night two onwards. Lemme know what you think.

    cheez wrote: »
    Seer results are not PMed to the seer.
    Thanks for the clarification. This pretty much means seering overlaps are useless, so best to spread the seerings out.


    In any case, my only worry with a "traceable" method of seering is that the bad guys can use it to find our legit and insane seers. But we've got six, and by that time the bad guys should be deaded.

    B:L on
    10mvrci.png click for Anime chat
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    Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Guys, guys!
    I have a revelation to make.
    I'm a seer.
    olol

    Bliss 101 on
    MSL59.jpg
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