The Batthread

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Posts

  • LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Keith wrote:
    Batman Begins is still fanfuckingtastic.

    Agreed.

    I'm just worried about the screenplay by David Goyer. Is it true Christopher Nolan did a lot of work to help the script? Because even with his help, it (mostly the dialogue) was still really iffy.

    Lux on
  • CariblueCariblue Registered User
    edited October 2005
    Lux wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    Batman Begins is still fanfuckingtastic.

    Agreed.

    I'm just worried about the screenplay by David Goyer. Is it true Christopher Nolan did a lot of work to help the script? Because even with his help, it (mostly the dialogue) was still really iffy.

    I just watched the movie, and Nolan pursued Goyer, and then Goyer said sure. They worked on it in Nolan's garage for a long time, but I think Goyer did do most of the writing, but Nolan was there for all of it.

    Cariblue on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Oh man, I read the first chapter of The Long Halloween (included in the Batman Begins Deluxe Edition), and now I have to read the rest.

    "The Man Who Falls" was nice for detailing what made him become Batman, and how he did it. The movie was pretty close, except Thomas Wayne was a dick in The Man Who Falls.

    Garlic Bread on
  • Faceless CowardFaceless Coward Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    bloodsend wrote:
    Man I just got back into comics and quit Batman again. I stopped reading during the beginning of the mediocre War Games and promptly dropped all comics but Gotham Central and Y: The Last Man. Got some back issues from a friend and WTF...

    1. Jason Todd is back from the dead for reals this time.
    2. What I loved about Batman was he was an asshole that was grim and witty but still likeable. Now he's just a fucking dick who alienates everyone he knows.
    3. The Clocktower is gone.
    4. Praise the saints Stephanie Brown is dead, but they had to bring a villain back who had the perfect death scene to do the little brat in!
    5. He is now an outlaw again due to being a huge fucking screw up.
    6. Super pacifist/nice lady/surrogate mother Leslie Thompkins is now a murderer and disowned from the Bat-family.
    7. The Joker isn't even a joke. He isn't funny. He is just a big fucking pussy who gets his ass handed to him by every new villain.

    What did Batman do to the writers for them to hurt him so bad?

    Joker seemed to hand Black Mask his ass pretty easy.

    That was less of a fight than a brawl between kids. I was half expecting Batman to say "IF YOU TWO DON'T STOP, I'M TURNING THIS CAR AROUND!"

    Faceless Coward on
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  • MartmanMartman Registered User
    edited October 2005
    Keith wrote:
    Oh man, I read the first chapter of The Long Halloween (included in the Batman Begins Deluxe Edition), and now I have to read the rest.

    "The Man Who Falls" was nice for detailing what made him become Batman, and how he did it. The movie was pretty close, except Thomas Wayne was a dick in The Man Who Falls.
    Wasn't the movie based more on Year One?

    Martman on
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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Martman wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    Oh man, I read the first chapter of The Long Halloween (included in the Batman Begins Deluxe Edition), and now I have to read the rest.

    "The Man Who Falls" was nice for detailing what made him become Batman, and how he did it. The movie was pretty close, except Thomas Wayne was a dick in The Man Who Falls.
    Wasn't the movie based more on Year One?

    A mixture of The Man Who Falls and Year One, I'm guessing.

    The Man Who Falls isn't about him being Batman, it's about him becoming Batman, so the first half of the movie. Then the second half is based off of Year One.

    Garlic Bread on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Except there isnt a supervillain at all in Year One. Just corruption of the city. And Jim Gordon kicking a lot of ass.

    DouglasDanger on
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  • inthegrayinthegray Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    despite the fact that the text is in Comic Sans, this shirt is bad ass.

    inthegray on
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Batzarro wrote:
    Celibate me!

    They need to have one of them say that.

    So very, very much.

    Golden Yak on
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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2005
    inthegray wrote:
    despite the fact that the text is in Comic Sans, this shirt is bad ass.

    That shirt is retarded. DKR started the whole darker for the sake being darker trend in comics, and its portrayel of Superman is retarded. I also hate the psycho Batman, which DKR started and made "cool".

    Besides, Batman was going all out and Superman wasnt doing hardly anything. Batman beating up Superman in those circumstances is like Master Chief beating on a crippled man, when all the crippled man whats to do is tell Master Cheif to stop humping the dead Elite's face. Not even a fight, really.

    DouglasDanger on
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  • altlat55altlat55 Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    BenMCOB wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    Would I "lose anything" if I read the Long Halloween or anything else before The Man Who Laughs?

    Nothing whatsoever. It's pretty much a stand-alone story that introduces the Joker so the only thing you're "losing" is a great Joker story. It won't really change anything if you read the long halloween before.

    Do any of the other rogues in the Long Halloween have good introductions in a graphic novel?

    altlat55 on
  • BenMCOBBenMCOB Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Not that I know of, but there are quite a few compilations of the earliest stories of many of the Batman villains which probably do a pretty good job of introducing them. I haven't picked up many of them yet though.

    BenMCOB on
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  • inthegrayinthegray Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    inthegray wrote:
    despite the fact that the text is in Comic Sans, this shirt is bad ass.

    That shirt is retarded. DKR started the whole darker for the sake being darker trend in comics, and its portrayel of Superman is retarded. I also hate the psycho Batman, which DKR started and made "cool".

    Besides, Batman was going all out and Superman wasnt doing hardly anything. Batman beating up Superman in those circumstances is like Master Chief beating on a crippled man, when all the crippled man whats to do is tell Master Cheif to stop humping the dead Elite's face. Not even a fight, really.

    it's an awesome shirt. it isn't batman's fault that he brought the ruckus whilst superman came with that weak shit. also, the powers batman was standing up to were not comparable to "humping [a] dead Elite's face."

    inthegray on
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Wasn't that fight right after Superman had been hit with a nuclear explosion that turned him into a skeleton, and was only running on risidual solar power absorbed from local plant-life?

    Golden Yak on
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  • RockyRaccoonRockyRaccoon Registered User
    edited October 2005
    Golden Yak wrote:
    Wasn't that fight right after Superman had been hit with a nuclear explosion that turned him into a skeleton, and was only running on risidual solar power absorbed from local plant-life?
    yes

    RockyRaccoon on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Upon re-reading it, it is almost like Superman threw the fight anyways.

    DouglasDanger on
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  • LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    inthegray wrote:
    despite the fact that the text is in Comic Sans, this shirt is bad ass.

    That shirt is retarded. DKR started the whole darker for the sake being darker trend in comics, and its portrayel of Superman is retarded. I also hate the psycho Batman, which DKR started and made "cool".

    That doesn't make DKR suck, though

    Lux on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2005
    DKR was fine as an Elseworlds. However, creators started using that darker psycho Batman concept in the main DCU, in a trend that continues to this very day. Batman is an absolutely intolerably arrogant paranoid asshole with almost nothing redeeming about him.

    He relies on an obviously ineffectual legal system. As a result, most of his rogues are mass murdering repeat offenders. If he doesnt have the balls to kill them, he could at the very least build a perfect prison. Cryogenic suspension would work and he wouldnt even have to kill anyone. Using all of the tech from his Justice League buddies, he could build a number of nearly perfect prisons. (I wont even get started on the split up of the league and everyone becoming assholes)

    The refusal to kill under any circumstance is a definite weakness of the character in my eyes. I have been reading a lot of old Batman stories. The original pulp-style Batman wasnt a bullet slinging lunatic by any stretch, but he had the balls to kill when there was no other logical option. Pulp Batman would have incapacitated or eliminated his rogues like Joker, Black Mask and Two-face long ago.

    I can understand why Batman doesnt kill the Joker in continuity, from a marketing perspective. From a logical perspective (and a moral one), it makes no sense whatsoever. What really gets me is when there is a Batman who is willing to kill when it is needed, that Batman turns in a fascist tyrant. There is never a portrayel of a Batman who can do the deed without turning into a super-facist. Why is that?

    DouglasDanger on
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  • RockyRaccoonRockyRaccoon Registered User
    edited October 2005
    OK, I don't disagree with you, but honestly how many more "Why doesn't Batman just kill the Joker?" posts are we going to have to read.

    RockyRaccoon on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2005
    I just feel the need to vent and bemoan the loss of pulp heroes from time to time.

    DouglasDanger on
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  • CariblueCariblue Registered User
    edited October 2005
    But Batman doesn't kill anyone, thats who he is. Yes he can go around and kill every person in sight but he has morals.

    He isn't the judge, he is merely the protector/enforcer. He doesn't have the right to choose to ends someones life, and he knows that. If he did kill these villians he is no better than the villians themselves. In a way it makes Batman stronger because he doesn't kill these people, he puts these people away and when they get out, he puts the cowl back on and throws himself in harms way.

    Cariblue on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Different people see things differently. I see Batman as a crippled character who lacks the moral fortitude to do what is needed, and therefore relies on a broken criminal system at a cost of innoncent life. One (immoral murdering) person's life is worth less than the lives of two innoncents.

    I am not asking for Batman to become Azbats or the Punisher. He could maybe do three strikes or something, I dont know. I have been thinking a lot about this lately.

    DouglasDanger on
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  • CariblueCariblue Registered User
    edited October 2005
    If Batman killed someone it would change him forever, the same way if Superman did. This is the way they are. If Batman killed people he wouldn't be Batman anymore, he would be crazy dude who murders people. Batman upholds the law, murder is against the law so what good would it do for him to start offing people.

    Cariblue on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2005
    At the very least, he could make Arkham a perfect prison. He doesnt need to kill people to incapacitate them. Cryogenic suspension could work, or even virtual reality.

    DouglasDanger on
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  • CariblueCariblue Registered User
    edited October 2005
    That's not even Batman's job though, he arrests the people. If anyone should make it better it should be the DA. I mean seriously, you have a town full of corrupt everything, Batman is just gonna die at 43 from strain to his body.

    Cariblue on
  • Chaos ZeroChaos Zero Registered User
    edited October 2005
    I picked up the long holloween and I can't fucking wait to read it. Now is the novel batman: Haunted Knight any good as the long holloween or dark victory?

    Chaos Zero on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2005
    I see any vigilante's job as protecting the public against crime.

    DouglasDanger on
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  • JaguarStrykerJaguarStryker Registered User
    edited October 2005
    At the very least, he could make Arkham a perfect prison. He doesnt need to kill people to incapacitate them. Cryogenic suspension could work, or even virtual reality.


    Cryogenic suspension would be pretty silly seeing as how then the criminals wouldn't age.


    I don't think the problem is Batman, really. The problem is that Gotham has a large population of mass murderers that routinely escape from custody, and the public as well as the government has seen fit to do nothing about it. That seems completely unrealistic to me.

    Also - many of these villains have committed crimes outside of Gotham City, and one would assume outside of the state that Gotham is in. None of these other places have the death penalty? Why have the Feds never gotten involved? Hell - GWB could just have everybody in Arkham deemed 'Enemy Combatants' and lock them all away forever. Gotham City is some kind of whacked out fantasy realm.

    JaguarStryker on
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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Yes, but the criminals who were cryogenically suspended wouldnt be killing people all the time. That is the idea.

    I realize Gotham and the DCU and comics in general call for a huge suspension of disbelief. Removing the bad guys would pose a big problem. However, there is an increasing demand for realism in comics, so I wonder if comics are being written into a corner.

    DouglasDanger on
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  • CariblueCariblue Registered User
    edited October 2005
    I see any vigilante's job as protecting the public against crime.

    What good would it do for Batman to be up in Arkham building the perfect jail, fucking nothing thats what. Besides, the villians would find a way to escape anyways.

    Cariblue on
  • NeoflyNeofly Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    At the very least, he could make Arkham a perfect prison. He doesnt need to kill people to incapacitate them. Cryogenic suspension could work, or even virtual reality.


    Cryogenic suspension would be pretty silly seeing as how then the criminals wouldn't age.


    I don't think the problem is Batman, really. The problem is that Gotham has a large population of mass murderers that routinely escape from custody, and the public as well as the government has seen fit to do nothing about it. That seems completely unrealistic to me.

    Also - many of these villains have committed crimes outside of Gotham City, and one would assume outside of the state that Gotham is in. None of these other places have the death penalty? Why have the Feds never gotten involved? Hell - GWB could just have everybody in Arkham deemed 'Enemy Combatants' and lock them all away forever. Gotham City is some kind of whacked out fantasy realm.

    But, the federal government HATES Gotham City. Remember No Man's Land? They abandoned support to the city, said "this city sucks! it's no longer under our custody!" and left Batman there.

    I guess nobody gives a shit about Gotham, except Batman.

    Neofly on
  • NeoflyNeofly Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Lux wrote:
    inthegray wrote:
    despite the fact that the text is in Comic Sans, this shirt is bad ass.

    That shirt is retarded. DKR started the whole darker for the sake being darker trend in comics, and its portrayel of Superman is retarded. I also hate the psycho Batman, which DKR started and made "cool".

    That doesn't make DKR suck, though

    DKR's Batman wasn't at the same level of dickiness that Batman is right now. After all, he still was able to smile, and congratulate Robin in DKR. Yes, DKR stablished the trend of grim batman, but, had the imitators copied more closely, we would have a better Batman today.

    Neofly on
  • NeoflyNeofly Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Cariblue wrote:
    If Batman killed someone it would change him forever, the same way if Superman did. This is the way they are. If Batman killed people he wouldn't be Batman anymore, he would be crazy dude who murders people. Batman upholds the law, murder is against the law so what good would it do for him to start offing people.

    Didn't Superman kill Zod in the continuity?

    Neofly on
  • übergeekübergeek Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    We know he could build a perfect prison, but then that would require writers to actually come up with brand new and interesting villains that after a few times of getting away, would be caught and thrown into the perfect prison. Eventually one guy would break everyone out of said prison for a special event and then he'd have to round them all up again.

    Here's something no one thought of though, the reason he doesn't build that prison is he's psychologically dependent on the hunt for these criminals (and it's easier for the writers to recycle most of the old ones). They've made him so very nuts and antisocial that it goes far beyond him calling himself Batman in his head. If he got rid of them all, he'd still just be brooding and looking for the next guy to step out of line, or just go completely over the edge and have to check into Arkham himself.

    Just look at one interpretation - Batman Beyond, while not cannon, shows what happens when his sole obsession is being Batman. He pushes everyone else away that were his family. He ends up old and alone, and for the most part the legend of Batman doesn't dissuade new criminals from popping up (which lends itself to people arguing that he kill just a few just to amke a statement). Lucky for him Terry (and JLU shows us why he adapted so well) has what it takes to continue on, but Terry knows there's a time and place to be Batman, and a time and place to be himself. It could be said that Terry is closer to the less crazy pulp Batman mentioned above.

    That's my interpretation based on the arguements presented so far.

    übergeek on
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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Chaos Zero wrote:
    I picked up the long holloween and I can't fucking wait to read it. Now is the novel batman: Haunted Knight any good as the long holloween or dark victory?

    Do you mean the graphic novel Haunted Knights, by Tim Sale and Jeph Loeb, the same team that worked on Long Halloween? If so, yeah, it's pretty good, and makes out the Mad Hatter to be particularly creepy. Old Jeph Loeb was awesome. I hate new Bizarro Jeph Loeb that writes Hush and Superman/Batman.. Anyways, yeah it's good, unless there's an actual novel by the same name I'm unaware of, in which case I don't know.

    Munch on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2005
    I would just really like an Elseworlds that I had a Batman like I have been talking about. I think it could be very interesting.

    DouglasDanger on
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  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Neofly wrote:
    Cariblue wrote:
    If Batman killed someone it would change him forever, the same way if Superman did. This is the way they are. If Batman killed people he wouldn't be Batman anymore, he would be crazy dude who murders people. Batman upholds the law, murder is against the law so what good would it do for him to start offing people.

    Didn't Superman kill Zod in the continuity?

    I believe Zod accidentally killed himself.

    If you're talking about the movies, there used to be a scene where they show him getting arrested. If you're talking about another Zod I do not know I am sorry.

    Also, while Superman has a code against killing, he does kill, but only when absolutely necessary, with absolutely no other choices present. He tried to kill Doomsday, for instance. Several times. He's pissed at Wonder Woman because she killed Lord while he thinks that there were other choices that could have ended everything without Lord getting killed.

    Spectre-x on
  • Faceless CowardFaceless Coward Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    I have a question for you. 40's Batman tried killing the Joker several times but how come he's still walking? The point is that even if he's willing to kill it'll be pointless. Because they are never going to get rid of any of the good villains.

    Faceless Coward on
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  • Faceless CowardFaceless Coward Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    Except there isnt a supervillain at all in Year One. Just corruption of the city. And Jim Gordon kicking a lot of ass.

    Well the characters Flass and Loeb only appeared in Begins and Year One. Ra's Al Ghul's whole hairbrained plot to poison the water supply was the Joker's threat at the end. The whole clicking a button on his heel to summon bats was from it, the talk in the police station about what he is was and so forth also came from Year One. I could go on and on.

    Faceless Coward on
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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    edited October 2005
    I went to Circuit City to buy the Zelda cartoon DVD set, but they didn't have it, so I bought Batman: TAS Vol. 1 instead. Wasn't it $40 or $45 before? Because it was $35 at CC. Yeah, that $5 difference made me buy it this time. $5 is dinner from the Chinese restaurant by my work.

    Garlic Bread on
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