As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
We're funding a new Acquisitions Incorporated series on Kickstarter right now! Check it out at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/acquisitions-incorporated-the-series-2

[WoW]Priests: Just because we heal you, doesn't mean we like you.

1161719212263

Posts

  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    [angry rant with numbers to back it up]
    OK, sat down and did the math:

    The way it works right now, I have to move 6 talent points to gain ~ 1.6% clearcasting. Without those points, I would be down to 4.2% from 6 with the same build. That's fully raid buffed vs completely unbuffed now, thanks scaling.

    Also, I lose 27-41% efficiency on Great Heal by casting max rank at a time I would have downranked, this includes spending 3 new talent points in Serendipity. Without Serendipity I'd lose 45-55% efficiency.

    In order to gain those points, I'm dropping Healing Focus and Mental Agility, so CoH mana efficiency drops by 26% due to the lack of talents + increase in cost from the new scaling. There is a 5% boost to throughput from Twin Disciplines, as well as not being party restricted + the Glyph for a 6th person so that *does* help.

    Oh, and they changed the formulas for Spirit regeneration, so expect about a 20% loss. I'm sure the scaling with gear thing may work out at 80, but wtf.

    So overall, I'm losing a ton of efficiency, gaining a hair of utility to CoH for ~145 more mana per cast, still can't even try my 51 point talent because 13 points are required in Disc, and can't even try the "alternate" healing spec because it flat out reduces single target throughput by about 20%, and it's a SINGLE TARGET HEALING SPEC.

    Being an analyst irl can be depressing sometimes.
    [/angry rant with numbers to back it up]

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
  • dojangodojango Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    yeah, that about sums it up. I've noticed my mana use goes way up when I don't have a [shudder] ret paladin in the group. Also, the death of downranking means we lost our prime mana-conservation tool. Course, we do all get "hymn of hope" now, might play around with that and see how it works. It is channelled now, instead of being instant cast, I think.

    Don't worry about the 51 point talents, they kind of suck, at least at the moment. Unless they start designing raid encounters around guardian spirit...

    dojango on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sooo... Pestilence from DKs spreads Devouring Plague, tons of fun.

    Mgcw on
  • willmannyeatthatwillmannyeatthat Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Ok, I feel like I am faced with a dilema. I'm not sure if I like the 51 pt shadow talent. I dont plan on PVPing and i'm wondering if 36% mana is worth a 51pt talent? Like seriously, I'm considering taking DS over dispersion. Especially if I am spending 5 points in twisted faith. Any thoughts?

    willmannyeatthat on
    Pokemon Pearl: 4640 3998 1657
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    If you're already going to be at 50 points in shadow, I think I would much rather have the huge damage reduction and mana regen of dispersion, for anything but full-on raiding, rather than a spirit buff.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • poisnedcokepoisnedcoke Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    If you're already going to be at 50 points in shadow, I think I would much rather have the huge damage reduction and mana regen of dispersion, for anything but full-on raiding, rather than a spirit buff.

    Even in raiding it'd help to have a spell that can reduce the damage you take for certain fights, for that extra 1 talent point you may be able to survive a fuck up or cover for a healing failure. No sense not taking it.

    poisnedcoke on
    I'm trilltastic, trilldacious even!
  • StarfuckStarfuck Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    I just noticed Shadow Form now has 30% threat reduction.
    Maybe I can skip shadow affinity now.

    Starfuck on
    jackfaces
    "If you're going to play tiddly winks, play it with man hole covers."
    - John McCallum
  • poisnedcokepoisnedcoke Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Starfuck wrote: »
    I just noticed Shadow Form now has 30% threat reduction.
    Maybe I can skip shadow affinity now.

    They're taking out salvation, so probably not.

    poisnedcoke on
    I'm trilltastic, trilldacious even!
  • exisexis Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Isn't tank threat generation going to be pretty much effortless come Wrath, though? I haven't been following the patch notes, just seen some lamenting from my ex-guilds tanks about how boring tanking is going to be.

    exis on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Also, no permanent threat dump for priests.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    End wrote: »
    Also, no permanent threat dump for priests.

    There is death and if you are holy the spirit of redemption

    Brainleech on
  • poisnedcokepoisnedcoke Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    exis wrote: »
    Isn't tank threat generation going to be pretty much effortless come Wrath, though? I haven't been following the patch notes, just seen some lamenting from my ex-guilds tanks about how boring tanking is going to be.

    And dps is being increased as well. I'm sure early as tanks increase in dps and dpsers dont have much super new sexy WotLK epics you wont have to have 60% threat reduction, but once you're decently geared it'll be needed just like salv is now.

    poisnedcoke on
    I'm trilltastic, trilldacious even!
  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    exis wrote: »
    Isn't tank threat generation going to be pretty much effortless come Wrath, though? I haven't been following the patch notes, just seen some lamenting from my ex-guilds tanks about how boring tanking is going to be.

    And dps is being increased as well. I'm sure early as tanks increase in dps and dpsers dont have much super new sexy WotLK epics you wont have to have 60% threat reduction, but once you're decently geared it'll be needed just like salv is now.

    But it's not like tank threat plateaus. It scales just as well as DPS now, or it should, because they all rely on AP and crazy stam-to-spell-damage talents and such now.

    In any event, any threat reduction talents you can take just give you that much more room to pewpew.

    EDIT: The actual reason I came in here... my widdle priest is 45 now, and naturally Shadow, and I'm just wondering if Vampiric Touch replaces the initial Mind Blast that I personally like using as an opener. My usual routine on mobs goes: Mind Blast >> throw up SW:P and VE while it runs to me >> either bubble myself or fear, depending on the surrounding mobs' distance >> 2x Mind Flay >> wand until dead to ensure I'm not in the 5sr for the first Spirit Tap ticks.

    Hamurabi on
  • poisnedcokepoisnedcoke Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    exis wrote: »
    Isn't tank threat generation going to be pretty much effortless come Wrath, though? I haven't been following the patch notes, just seen some lamenting from my ex-guilds tanks about how boring tanking is going to be.

    And dps is being increased as well. I'm sure early as tanks increase in dps and dpsers dont have much super new sexy WotLK epics you wont have to have 60% threat reduction, but once you're decently geared it'll be needed just like salv is now.

    But it's not like tank threat plateaus. It scales just as well as DPS now, or it should, because they all rely on AP and crazy stam-to-spell-damage talents and such now.

    In any event, any threat reduction talents you can take just give you that much more room to pewpew.

    EDIT: The actual reason I came in here... my widdle priest is 45 now, and naturally Shadow, and I'm just wondering if Vampiric Touch replaces the initial Mind Blast that I personally like using as an opener. My usual routine on mobs goes: Mind Blast >> throw up SW:P and VE while it runs to me >> either bubble myself or fear, depending on the surrounding mobs' distance >> 2x Mind Flay >> wand until dead to ensure I'm not in the 5sr for the first Spirit Tap ticks.

    Honestly most of the time dots are too much mana to bother on single mob pulls.

    poisnedcoke on
    I'm trilltastic, trilldacious even!
  • ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Yeah SWP is really really mana ineffecient.

    Shield Blast Flay Flay Wand Dead!

    Arrath on
  • LineNoizLineNoiz Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Hm. Guess I'm doing it wrong then...

    For me, I always used VE > SW: P > Flay > Fear > Wand > Dead

    They usually die as of the last SW: P tick and I'm back to full mana by the next mob.

    LineNoiz on
  • poisnedcokepoisnedcoke Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    LineNoiz wrote: »
    Hm. Guess I'm doing it wrong then...

    For me, I always used VE > SW: P > Flay > Fear > Wand > Dead

    They usually die as of the last SW: P tick and I'm back to full mana by the next mob.

    Depends on what level you're at and how much time you want to spend. If you do the swp thing last tick as it dies you can save more mana, but you'll also end up regenning more mana than you spent. So it's great to get more mana, but not really needed if you're well to do on mana.

    poisnedcoke on
    I'm trilltastic, trilldacious even!
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Just been informed Psychic Scream puts Divine Hymn on a 30 second cooldown... what the fuck?

    Mgcw on
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    How remarkably useless.

    shadowane on
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Fear not! It will likely be nerfed to completely useless after release.

    /emotearz

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
  • willmannyeatthatwillmannyeatthat Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ok guys, this is what I plan on leveling with. I don't plan on pvping (pve server). My question is does this look like a viable leveling spec? Also, I have no idea what to do with the last 2 points. I was thinking between veiled shadows or improved shadowform but i'm not sure.

    willmannyeatthat on
    Pokemon Pearl: 4640 3998 1657
  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Arrath wrote: »
    Yeah SWP is really really mana ineffecient.

    This is the complete opposite of everything I've ever heard about SW:P, though I'll admit that's not a lot.

    Hamurabi on
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    It's mana inefficient when it can't run its full course.

    shadowane on
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    So after the request to swap Imp Inner fire (due to the post-70 spellpower bonus) and Imp Shield in their positions in the trees, they opt to move Imp Fort instead? W....T....F. So Holy Priests now have to throw a minimum of 16 points in Disc to get the buff instead of 13.

    This is how I feel atm

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    It also makes tier 2 terrible for anyone not discipline. There is no reasonable way to climb past that without ending up 2/3 in one talent. It's a bizarre change. It also means that shadow priests in pve will probably go 3/3 imp. inner fire, 2/3 shields, then get meditation and be done. The problem here is leaving imp. fort on the floor means your holy or discipline priests need to pick up the buffing slack or on 10 mans your priest doesn't have imp. fort. It's terrible and I hope it's a mistake.

    shadowane on
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I also want to hope and assume it's a mistake, because really.... What a mess.

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Exchanging a 2 point talent with a 3 point talent is just baffling.

    shadowane on
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    And the Priest community breathes a collective sigh of relief:
    We liked the idea of moving Imp Inner Fire. There seemed to be a lot of disagreement about whether Imp PW:Shield or Imp Fort should move down to take its place.

    We talked about it some, and we're cool with moving Fort up and Shield down.

    Source

    I'm giving Disc a whirl on the PTR tonight to try to get a better feel for it, I'm 99% sure that's the healing spec I'm going for 5 mans. But I definitely plan on going Deep Holy for raiding, I have faith that they'll eventually get the regen numbers right in the end. Not being able to pick up Imp Fort sucks, but the flip side leaves you losing more deep Holy talents.

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    So I hit 70 a while back on my main. It was actually my second 70 (long story) but I'm still getting adjusted to it. I leveled Shadow, and thought about doing a shadow/disc build for end-game PVP.

    That got boring after a while.

    So I picked up Primal Mooncloth tailoring, respecced to disc/holy, and am rocking out heals. I have the whole Primal Mooncloth set, the Whitemend Hood, a Hand of Eternity, and some S3 arena off-set rewards I ground out for before hitting 70. I'm really tickled that I have no greens at all. I'm grinding out SSO rep for the neck piece, and also because buying the mats for the Whitemend set as well as the Hand of Eternity robs me of so much monies. If I hadn't bought all the mats for that stuff, I probably would've had an epic mount by now. I'm not too worried, because I feel like I need to make up for not knowing how to do healing with my gear. :P

    drhazard on
    SCB.jpg
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Hey that gear will carry you to the end of T5 content. :)

    The downside is you will die if a mob sneezes or looks at you the wrong way.

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Thing is, I'm not in a raiding guild, and don't think I can be with my schedule. Plus, I like playing with my two friends more than anything. I think it's just neat to have something to look forward to, and this stuff will let me coast through Wrath a little farther, so I can DE everything there and finish leveling enchanting.

    drhazard on
    SCB.jpg
  • ItalaxItalax Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I am having a really hard time trying to decide on a holy spec spec for WotLK. It seems like I have no choice but to spend at least 13 points in Disc (I want Imp Inner Fire too, so that's 16), leaving me with 55 points to work with in the Holy tree. That just doesn't seem like enough to get everything I want in it.

    Atm, I'm thinking about this: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVIb0hZfxxcf0qVhVIot
    But I might drop holy reach in favour of Surge of Light. I really want Surge of Light but I have no idea where to get the two points for it.

    Italax on
    PSN: Italax - Steam ID : Italax
    Sometimes I Stream Games: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/italax-plays-video-games
  • transmissiontransmission Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Italax wrote: »
    I am having a really hard time trying to decide on a holy spec spec for WotLK. It seems like I have no choice but to spend at least 13 points in Disc (I want Imp Inner Fire too, so that's 16), leaving me with 55 points to work with in the Holy tree. That just doesn't seem like enough to get everything I want in it.

    Atm, I'm thinking about this: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVIb0hZfxxcf0qVhVIot
    But I might drop holy reach in favour of Surge of Light. I really want Surge of Light but I have no idea where to get the two points for it.

    if you want surge of light take out holy reach imho. It's not a talent that will boost your health per second or health per mana. Surge of light will.

    I would go with a spec something like this: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=053300013000000000000000000023505003030015253105331051000000000000000000000000000

    Yes, I did leave imp Fort out of it, but to get the most bang for your healing buck you will have to not take it and let a full disc priest be the DS AND fort buffer. Also according to beta testers even though it has a few kinks (like being a summoned creature now wtf?) lightwell is an awesome spell and much more useful than it ever has been. you will want to take it.

    transmission on
  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Italax wrote: »
    I am having a really hard time trying to decide on a holy spec spec for WotLK. It seems like I have no choice but to spend at least 13 points in Disc (I want Imp Inner Fire too, so that's 16), leaving me with 55 points to work with in the Holy tree. That just doesn't seem like enough to get everything I want in it.

    Atm, I'm thinking about this: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVIb0hZfxxcf0qVhVIot
    But I might drop holy reach in favour of Surge of Light. I really want Surge of Light but I have no idea where to get the two points for it.

    if you want surge of light take out holy reach imho. It's not a talent that will boost your health per second or health per mana. Surge of light will.

    I would go with a spec something like this: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=053300013000000000000000000023505003030015253105331051000000000000000000000000000

    Yes, I did leave imp Fort out of it, but to get the most bang for your healing buck you will have to not take it and let a full disc priest be the DS AND fort buffer. Also according to beta testers even though it has a few kinks (like being a summoned creature now wtf?) lightwell is an awesome spell and much more useful than it ever has been. you will want to take it.

    Personally I'd take points out of silent resolve for imp fort. Dosn't feel like its very important.

    Scroffus on
  • transmissiontransmission Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Scroffus wrote: »
    Italax wrote: »
    I am having a really hard time trying to decide on a holy spec spec for WotLK. It seems like I have no choice but to spend at least 13 points in Disc (I want Imp Inner Fire too, so that's 16), leaving me with 55 points to work with in the Holy tree. That just doesn't seem like enough to get everything I want in it.

    Atm, I'm thinking about this: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVIb0hZfxxcf0qVhVIot
    But I might drop holy reach in favour of Surge of Light. I really want Surge of Light but I have no idea where to get the two points for it.

    if you want surge of light take out holy reach imho. It's not a talent that will boost your health per second or health per mana. Surge of light will.

    I would go with a spec something like this: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=053300013000000000000000000023505003030015253105331051000000000000000000000000000

    Yes, I did leave imp Fort out of it, but to get the most bang for your healing buck you will have to not take it and let a full disc priest be the DS AND fort buffer. Also according to beta testers even though it has a few kinks (like being a summoned creature now wtf?) lightwell is an awesome spell and much more useful than it ever has been. you will want to take it.

    Personally I'd take points out of silent resolve for imp fort. Dosn't feel like its very important.

    It seems like a personal choice yea. In wrath tanks will generate alot of aggro so as a healer you'll have a slim chance of pulling aggro, but i take it cause that small chance is too big for me.

    transmission on
  • ItalaxItalax Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Scroffus wrote: »
    Italax wrote: »
    I am having a really hard time trying to decide on a holy spec spec for WotLK. It seems like I have no choice but to spend at least 13 points in Disc (I want Imp Inner Fire too, so that's 16), leaving me with 55 points to work with in the Holy tree. That just doesn't seem like enough to get everything I want in it.

    Atm, I'm thinking about this: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVIb0hZfxxcf0qVhVIot
    But I might drop holy reach in favour of Surge of Light. I really want Surge of Light but I have no idea where to get the two points for it.

    if you want surge of light take out holy reach imho. It's not a talent that will boost your health per second or health per mana. Surge of light will.

    I would go with a spec something like this: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=053300013000000000000000000023505003030015253105331051000000000000000000000000000

    Yes, I did leave imp Fort out of it, but to get the most bang for your healing buck you will have to not take it and let a full disc priest be the DS AND fort buffer. Also according to beta testers even though it has a few kinks (like being a summoned creature now wtf?) lightwell is an awesome spell and much more useful than it ever has been. you will want to take it.

    Personally I'd take points out of silent resolve for imp fort. Dosn't feel like its very important.

    It seems like a personal choice yea. In wrath tanks will generate alot of aggro so as a healer you'll have a slim chance of pulling aggro, but i take it cause that small chance is too big for me.

    I don't want to take points out of Imp Fort because I think I'll probably be doing more 10-mans in Wrath than 25 mans and my friend plays a Resto Druid, so that will probably be our set-up, so no Disc Priest to cover me on it.

    I might try dropping Silent Resolve and seeing how that goes. If I'm getting too close for comfort aggro-wise then I'll put a few points into it.

    I think I'll probably start out with this now: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcb0hZfxxcf0qiuVIot

    If I'm having threat problems I'll drop something and put a few points back in. I'll need to see if I can get a lot of use out of lightwell too, I've never played around with it before because I'd heard some pretty bad things about it.

    Italax on
    PSN: Italax - Steam ID : Italax
    Sometimes I Stream Games: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/italax-plays-video-games
  • transmissiontransmission Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Like i said besides a few kinks in the mechanics of it, it is now a very viable spell and not the wasted point it was in vanilla and BC.

    I still think you are favoring holy reach too much, especially in a ten man setting it doesnt seem like the raid will be as spread out as in 25's and since CoH is a smart heal and raidwide making its radius bigger will make only a negligle difference. IMO that's what you wanna take out for surge of Light if you intend to keep imp: fort.

    A free instant flash heal and reduced threat (from SR) is leagues better than a bigger radius which imo becomes obsolete when the raid has to bunch up (where CoH shines).

    but to each his own and im def not saying holy reach is useless just not as good for boosting HPS and HPM.

    transmission on
  • ItalaxItalax Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Like i said besides a few kinks in the mechanics of it, it is now a very viable spell and not the wasted point it was in vanilla and BC.

    I still think you are favoring holy reach too much, especially in a ten man setting it doesnt seem like the raid will be as spread out as in 25's and since CoH is a smart heal and raidwide making its radius bigger will make only a negligle difference. IMO that's what you wanna take out for surge of Light if you intend to keep imp: fort.

    A free instant flash heal and reduced threat (from SR) is leagues better than a bigger radius which imo becomes obsolete when the raid has to bunch up (where CoH shines).

    but to each his own and im def not saying holy reach is useless just not as good for boosting HPS and HPM.

    I was considering dropping Holy Reach for Healing Prayers, I'm gonna see how I do without Silent Resolve. If, even without it, I'm not coming anywhere near pulling aggro then putting points in it would be a waste.

    Italax on
    PSN: Italax - Steam ID : Italax
    Sometimes I Stream Games: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/italax-plays-video-games
  • transmissiontransmission Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Haha i must say i disagree with SR being completely useless. Im ashamed of saying this but i have pulled aggro from tanks spamming CoH on gurtogg bloodboil.

    on fights that reset aggro and spike constant raid damage SR is invaluable imo.

    transmission on
  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ravenholdt&n=Ebondaael

    Please to be ignoring the shitty arena rating, I'm on a three man with a mage in greens and a prot warrior. It's just a way to fill in some gaps in our gear (I'll be getting the s4 gloves, and that's about it).

    Anyway, I really have no idea where to begin with heroics. Am I in any position to start doing them? Remember, I just recently switched to disc/holy for PVP, but I'm having a ton of fun healing the pug 70 instances I get into. Also remember that these same heroics will also be in pugs for the most part.

    EDIT: Also ignore the dreadweave. I thought I was going to stay shadow at 70, so I bought that stuff before I hit it.

    drhazard on
    SCB.jpg
This discussion has been closed.