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[Beta ON] Team Fortress 2: Hey, that medic has the same name as m-

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Posts

  • MightyMighty Omeganaut '15 '16 '17 NebraskaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    as far as i can tell in the video, the spy looks at his wristwatch and fades out. he keeps the watch up so you know how much time you have. then you fade in.

    Mighty on
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  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    nlawalker wrote: »
    Im not clear on spies. How diffrent/similar are they to old school spies?

    Can i still diguise?

    God i hope i can still disguise.
    Absolutely. The Spy's disguise has been upgraded: to the opposing team you look like your disguise. To your team, you look like a spy but you have a cardboard cutout mask of the class you are disguised at over your face. This way you won't get shot by your own team all the time thinking that you're the enemy.

    You can also cloak - ten seconds of invisibility. I imagine that this skill either charges over time or has to be earned, though, similar to the Medic's invuln.

    This doesn't stop the problem of shooting your teammates to check for the opposing team's spies, though. I think the idea is that the cloak will allow the Spy to slip into the base, then they disguise, so they can actually move forward in what would be the proper direction for a member of that team to be moving.

    This probably won't completely deter spy checks, though.

    Houn on
  • AvenroshAvenrosh Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Does cloaking for the spy replace feigning their death?

    Avenrosh on
  • ParisInFlamesParisInFlames Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Avenrosh wrote: »
    Does cloaking for the spy replace feigning their death?
    Sort of. It obviously doesn't have the same effect, but it is the skill gained for the loss of feign death. We'll see the advantages vs. disadvantages once everyone gets their hands on it.

    ParisInFlames on
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Houn wrote: »
    nlawalker wrote: »
    Im not clear on spies. How diffrent/similar are they to old school spies?

    Can i still diguise?

    God i hope i can still disguise.
    Absolutely. The Spy's disguise has been upgraded: to the opposing team you look like your disguise. To your team, you look like a spy but you have a cardboard cutout mask of the class you are disguised at over your face. This way you won't get shot by your own team all the time thinking that you're the enemy.

    You can also cloak - ten seconds of invisibility. I imagine that this skill either charges over time or has to be earned, though, similar to the Medic's invuln.

    This doesn't stop the problem of shooting your teammates to check for the opposing team's spies, though. I think the idea is that the cloak will allow the Spy to slip into the base, then they disguise, so they can actually move forward in what would be the proper direction for a member of that team to be moving.

    This probably won't completely deter spy checks, though.

    Well, the Spy is already doing a lot of good if he's gotten everyone on the enemy team to always shoot eachother on sight.

    Zek on
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Zek wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    nlawalker wrote: »
    Im not clear on spies. How diffrent/similar are they to old school spies?

    Can i still diguise?

    God i hope i can still disguise.
    Absolutely. The Spy's disguise has been upgraded: to the opposing team you look like your disguise. To your team, you look like a spy but you have a cardboard cutout mask of the class you are disguised at over your face. This way you won't get shot by your own team all the time thinking that you're the enemy.

    You can also cloak - ten seconds of invisibility. I imagine that this skill either charges over time or has to be earned, though, similar to the Medic's invuln.

    This doesn't stop the problem of shooting your teammates to check for the opposing team's spies, though. I think the idea is that the cloak will allow the Spy to slip into the base, then they disguise, so they can actually move forward in what would be the proper direction for a member of that team to be moving.

    This probably won't completely deter spy checks, though.

    Well, the Spy is already doing a lot of good if he's gotten everyone on the enemy team to always shoot eachother on sight.

    Touché.

    Houn on
  • MumblyfishMumblyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Zek wrote: »
    This doesn't stop the problem of shooting your teammates to check for the opposing team's spies, though. I think the idea is that the cloak will allow the Spy to slip into the base, then they disguise, so they can actually move forward in what would be the proper direction for a member of that team to be moving.
    Two things of note for upcoming Spies: Friendly fire is disabled in Team Fortress 2, and I believe that's final. Outside of server-side mods, there's no punishment for shooting an ally, short of wasting good bullets.

    Despite this, "Spy checks" will be rare. A Spy in disguise shows no signs of pain when hit by anyone, friend or foe. You can unload a dozen shells into him and, assuming he lives, from all appearances it would seem the bullets went straight through him. No blood, no cries of pain, nothing. He's trained to withstand all manner of torture, after all.

    Mumblyfish on
  • StollyStolly Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Eurogamer just posted their review and, since it was a tad premature, promptly pulled it ten minutes later.

    The score will be an enthusiatic 9/10 though, when the review re-appears in a few hours or so.

    Stolly on
  • areaarea Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    This doesn't stop the problem of shooting your teammates to check for the opposing team's spies, though. I think the idea is that the cloak will allow the Spy to slip into the base, then they disguise, so they can actually move forward in what would be the proper direction for a member of that team to be moving.
    Two things of note for upcoming Spies: Friendly fire is disabled in Team Fortress 2, and I believe that's final. Outside of server-side mods, there's no punishment for shooting an ally, short of wasting good bullets.

    Despite this, "Spy checks" will be rare. A Spy in disguise shows no signs of pain when hit by anyone, friend or foe. You can unload a dozen shells into him and, assuming he lives, from all appearances it would seem the bullets went straight through him. No blood, no cries of pain, nothing. He's trained to withstand all manner of torture, after all.

    Do the Scout and Spy still have the ability to remove opposing Spy disguises?

    area on
  • MumblyfishMumblyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    No mention has been made of that ability. I would put money on it being absent, though, if only because one class being rendered obsolete by the presence of another jars with Valve's design philosophy of late. It's very fun discovering a Spy just by being near him, I'm sure, but it's no fun for the Spy.

    Mumblyfish on
  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    nlawalker wrote: »
    Yeah, head over to CVG for a new preview. It has some good screens and info.

    Some key info:
    THANK GOD. I am so tired of snipers only playing to inflate their egos because they have a lot of kills and their K:D is high compared to everyone else.

    The final bit I haven't heard anything on that I hope they somehow fixed is "spy checks." It makes it impossible to be an effective spy when everyone on each team shoots everyone on their own team all the time to see if they bleed, and it's annoying to get shot by teammates all the time. On one server I played on yesterday, some dude playing as a heavy sat in the inner entrance of 2fort and shot everyone that came in, regardless of color.

    From the tf2 commentary transcript I linked to last page:

    "#commentary\tf2-Comment040.wav [Robin Walker] With nine classes of characters, and so many
    weapons and unique abilities, one of our biggest challenges was exposing all these combinations to players without overwhelming them. Even the shortlist of essential information is intimidating, including map goals, the whereabouts of their friends, who's shooting them with what weapon, and so on. We didn't have any way to make all of this information visual, so first we had to prioritize and come up with an essential list of things every player needed to know in order to just have fun. Information they could learn by playing the game-such as map layout-was of secondary importance; but there was also information, such as the Medic's invulnerability charge, that would be completely invisible unless we exposed it. We tried to avoid attaching 2D elements to the HUD as much as possible, since we wanted players to be looking at the 3D world we'd built rather than some abstract representation. For example, players always see their own team's spies as a spy, but they need to know how the spy is disguised to the other team. We tried a quick hack where we put an icon representing the spy's current disguise floating above his head. The icon proved baffling to playtesters. When we tackled the problem by putting cut-out paper masks on the spy, it not only fit the humorous style of the game, but it let players get all pertinent information directly from a quick look at the spy's model, thus keeping them focused on the characters and on the action of the game. We took this as a lesson, in how holding ourselves to a strong design principle can often force us to come up with better solutions, than if we'd taken the easy route."


    TLDR: spy teamamtes are easy to identify

    Haha, holy shit yes.

    Bacon-BuTTy on
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  • areaarea Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    No mention has been made of that ability. I would put money on it being absent, though, if only because one class being rendered obsolete by the presence of another jars with Valve's design philosophy of late. It's very fun discovering a Spy just by being near him, I'm sure, but it's no fun for the Spy.

    A shame, but not unexpected. Defensive Scout on Dustbowl will be a thing of the past now, though, and will be sorely missed (by me).

    area on
  • DeMoNDeMoN twitch.tv/toxic_cizzle Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    This doesn't stop the problem of shooting your teammates to check for the opposing team's spies, though. I think the idea is that the cloak will allow the Spy to slip into the base, then they disguise, so they can actually move forward in what would be the proper direction for a member of that team to be moving.
    Two things of note for upcoming Spies: Friendly fire is disabled in Team Fortress 2, and I believe that's final. Outside of server-side mods, there's no punishment for shooting an ally, short of wasting good bullets.

    Despite this, "Spy checks" will be rare. A Spy in disguise shows no signs of pain when hit by anyone, friend or foe. You can unload a dozen shells into him and, assuming he lives, from all appearances it would seem the bullets went straight through him. No blood, no cries of pain, nothing. He's trained to withstand all manner of torture, after all.

    So wait, a disguised spy is basically invincible, as long as he doesn't attack?

    DeMoN on
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  • nlawalkernlawalker Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    Two things of note for upcoming Spies: Friendly fire is disabled in Team Fortress 2, and I believe that's final. Outside of server-side mods, there's no punishment for shooting an ally, short of wasting good bullets.

    Despite this, "Spy checks" will be rare. A Spy in disguise shows no signs of pain when hit by anyone, friend or foe. You can unload a dozen shells into him and, assuming he lives, from all appearances it would seem the bullets went straight through him. No blood, no cries of pain, nothing. He's trained to withstand all manner of torture, after all.
    Yes! That's what I wanted to hear. In terms of the Spy accomplishing something by getting members of the other team to shoot each other, the reality is that it doesn't actually do much. There is no friendly fire and no repurcussions (as far as I have seen) for shooting team members - it's just annoying. In TFC it would drain your armor but not your health if you were shot by a teammate - there is no armor in TF2 and no friendly fire, so there's no effect. This encourages you to shoot everyone to uncover spies.

    I'm glad that this has been fixed. I wonder now how you will be able to uncover a spy to avoid making spies too powerful. I feel confident that Valve has balanced it excellently... I'm just curious now.

    nlawalker on
  • One Thousand CablesOne Thousand Cables An absence of thought Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    DeMoN wrote: »
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    This doesn't stop the problem of shooting your teammates to check for the opposing team's spies, though. I think the idea is that the cloak will allow the Spy to slip into the base, then they disguise, so they can actually move forward in what would be the proper direction for a member of that team to be moving.
    Two things of note for upcoming Spies: Friendly fire is disabled in Team Fortress 2, and I believe that's final. Outside of server-side mods, there's no punishment for shooting an ally, short of wasting good bullets.

    Despite this, "Spy checks" will be rare. A Spy in disguise shows no signs of pain when hit by anyone, friend or foe. You can unload a dozen shells into him and, assuming he lives, from all appearances it would seem the bullets went straight through him. No blood, no cries of pain, nothing. He's trained to withstand all manner of torture, after all.

    So wait, a disguised spy is basically invincible, as long as he doesn't attack?

    He still takes damage, he just doesn't show it.

    Edit: If you catch someone blowing up your team's turrets, they're probably a spy.

    One Thousand Cables on
  • FluxcapFluxcap Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I have seen the cigs in the videos, what does the spy use those for besides a nic fit?

    Fluxcap on
  • nlawalkernlawalker Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    DeMoN wrote: »
    So wait, a disguised spy is basically invincible, as long as he doesn't attack?
    No, I think the idea is that he does take damage, but just doesn't show it. This prevents "spy checks", which basically had little to no repurcussion in TFC and allowed everyone to easily discover spies. If you shot a teammate and he bled, he was a spy for the other team.

    nlawalker on
  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Can spies Sabotage sentry guns?

    This was super fun in Fortress Forever.

    But i really can't remember if i could do that in TFC.

    Bacon-BuTTy on
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  • MumblyfishMumblyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Conceptually, the Spy is my favourite of the classes. I love how he manages to blindside an entire opposing team, packed to the gills with multi-million dollar hardware, with little more than a simple cardboard mask. The way he changes costume cracks me up, too; he keeps his disguises in a large cigarette case (very Bond), called the SPYTRON 3000. Such a delightfully high-tech name for a comedically large cigarette case.

    Mumblyfish on
  • areaarea Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Can spies Sabotage sentry guns?

    This was super fun in Fortress Forever.

    But i really can't remember if i could do that in TFC.

    You couldn't in TFC, but you can in TF2.

    area on
  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    That settled it for sure then.

    Engineer has always been my ultimate laid back chill out class.

    And spy will remain my "Fucking shit up" class.

    I can't wait.

    Bacon-BuTTy on
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  • MumblyfishMumblyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    area wrote: »
    Can spies Sabotage sentry guns?

    This was super fun in Fortress Forever.

    But i really can't remember if i could do that in TFC.
    You couldn't in TFC, but you can in TF2.
    To prevent confusion: In Fortress Forever, Spies could "Sabotage" enemy turrets, which temporarily turns them to the Spy's team and puts a timed explosive on it. In Team Fortress 2, Spies get a weapon called the Sapper. The Sapper is a melee-range weapon that targets enemy turrets and cuts off their power, disabling them. It doesn't take the Spy out of disguise, though it's bloody obvious to anyone nearby who the culprit is. The turret is only powered down, not destroyed, and can be repaired by an Engineer.

    If memory serves, the Sapper takes five seconds to use.

    Mumblyfish on
  • suttbeckssuttbecks Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I want this, someone spend money on me for no reason

    is the beta only accessible if you preorder the orange box, or is it anything with TF2

    suttbecks on
  • nlawalkernlawalker Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    area wrote: »
    You couldn't in TFC, but you can in TF2.
    One of the most powerful uses of Spies in TFC was the ability to take out enemy sentries. You could throw grenades as a spy without losing your disguise, so if no one saw you, you could take out a sentry without giving yourself away.

    Valve realized that this was one of the best uses of spies, so given the lack of grenades and the desire to play up strengths of individual classes, they gave him an electro-zapper tool designed to take out enemy sentries.

    nlawalker on
  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    area wrote: »
    Can spies Sabotage sentry guns?

    This was super fun in Fortress Forever.

    But i really can't remember if i could do that in TFC.
    You couldn't in TFC, but you can in TF2.
    To prevent confusion: In Fortress Forever, Spies could "Sabotage" enemy turrets, which temporarily turns them to the Spy's team and puts a timed explosive on it. In Team Fortress 2, Spies get a weapon called the Sapper. The Sapper is a melee-range weapon that targets enemy turrets and cuts off their power, disabling them. It doesn't take the Spy out of disguise, though it's bloody obvious to anyone nearby who the culprit is. The turret is only powered down, not destroyed, and can be repaired by an Engineer.

    If memory serves, the Sapper takes five seconds to use.

    Not quite as sexy as fortress forever. But meh, still pretty sexy.

    I can't wait. The Spy is the greatest class in any game ever.

    Bacon-BuTTy on
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  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I favor engineer because he requires the least amount of twitch reflex skill. Not that I lack any, I'm actually pretty good. I just like to take a break from it and still be able to kill people.
    Not quite as sexy and fortress forever. But meh, still pretty sexy.

    I can't wait. The Spy is the greatest class in any game ever.
    For engineers, it's quite a bit more sexy.

    Hoz on
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    am i the only one who primarily used scout in tf/tfc?

    i loved scout, you moved so freaking fast, you could cap the flag before the enemy team even knew what happened. i hope scout is still awesome

    Hardtarget on
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  • SudsSuds Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    suttbecks wrote: »
    fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I want this, someone spend money on me for no reason

    is the beta only accessible if you preorder the orange box, or is it anything with TF2

    Yes. Unless, like me, you got a Black Box voucher with the purchase of an ATi video card.

    Suds on
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  • MumblyfishMumblyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    [...]To prevent confusion: In Fortress Forever, Spies could "Sabotage" enemy turrets, which temporarily turns them to the Spy's team and puts a timed explosive on it. In Team Fortress 2, Spies get a weapon called the Sapper. The Sapper is a melee-range weapon that targets enemy turrets and cuts off their power, disabling them. It doesn't take the Spy out of disguise, though it's bloody obvious to anyone nearby who the culprit is. The turret is only powered down, not destroyed, and can be repaired by an Engineer.

    If memory serves, the Sapper takes five seconds to use.
    Not quite as sexy and fortress forever. But meh, still pretty sexy.

    I can't wait. The Spy is the greatest class in any game ever.
    I think the Sapper shows a greater deal of thought than Fortress Forever's "Sabotage". In practice, "Sabotage" makes playing Engineer a tad pointless in public servers, because unless you spend your entire playtime guarding your turret (dull, considering a good Engineer can put out decent damage with his shotgun), it will get Sabotaged, not only rendering all your efforts instantly pointless, but making your construction a huge liability for your team. Oh, how fun is that? Fucking your entire team over for thirty seconds and it being your fault. Also, "Sabotage" encourages Spies to point-whore and seek out turrets exclusively (due to the immense kills you can rack up Sabotaging a turret near a spawn point).

    The Sapper encourages Spies to take out anyone close to the turret before doing the deed, particularly the Engineer who may be nearby. He also has to cooperate with his team to ensure that the sentries go down when the team advances, because at the next respawn time that Engineer is going to be back, and his first point of call will be getting the sentry back up. It's more fun for both parties.

    Mumblyfish on
  • Nakatomi2010Nakatomi2010 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Just release it damnit!

    Nakatomi2010 on
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  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I was hoping I could play a bit in my free time before heading back again. Now I won't come back home until 9:00 PM, and if it requires downloading anything (big enough) other than the preload that means no taste of TF2 for me today. :(

    What's wrong with right now Valve!? What's wrong!?

    Drovek on
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  • IcemopperIcemopper Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Soooo the beta's not out yet?

    When then, for EST'rs, would it be ready?

    Icemopper on
  • One Thousand CablesOne Thousand Cables An absence of thought Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Icemopper wrote: »
    Soooo the beta's not out yet?

    When then, for EST'rs, would it be ready?

    I'm guessing 8 p.m., assuming it hits 5 p.m. PST

    One Thousand Cables on
  • MumblyfishMumblyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Urgh...

    Today. That's today in whatever timezone Valve is situated. As in, any time before midnight. They said nothing beyond that, because they're not fucking idiots. Anyone who gives you a timeframe is guessing, and as we should all know by now, guessing Valve Time™ is futile.

    Mumblyfish on
  • nlawalkernlawalker Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    I think the Sapper shows a greater deal of thought than Fortress Forever's "Sabotage". In practice, "Sabotage" makes playing Engineer a tad pointless in public servers, because unless you spend your entire playtime guarding your turret (dull, considering a good Engineer can put out decent damage with his shotgun), it will get Sabotaged, not only rendering all your efforts instantly pointless, but making your construction a huge liability for your team. Oh, how fun is that? Fucking your entire team over for thirty seconds and it being your fault. Also, "Sabotage" encourages Spies to point-whore and seek out turrets exclusively (due to the immense kills you can rack up Sabotaging a turret near a spawn point).

    The Sapper encourages Spies to take out anyone close to the turret before doing the deed, particularly the Engineer who may be nearby. He also has to cooperate with his team to ensure that the sentries go down when the team advances, because at the next respawn time that Engineer is going to be back, and his first point of call will be getting the sentry back up. It's more fun for both parties.
    It's exactly that kind of thought that Valve puts in to everything. For a lot of reasons, it doesn't surprise me that the game took so long.

    I'm curious if an Engineer will be able to know remotely if his sentry has been sapped. In TFC, on bigger maps, sentries don't just score kills, they are security systems. The Engineer can see what the health and ammo of his sentry is from anywhere, and changing values alerts him to enemies trying to encroach on that part of the map. If an engineer can't see that his sentry has been sapped, this is incentive for a Spy to sap it and ensure that both himself and his teammates don't destroy it, but instead leave it intact and sneak by.

    nlawalker on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    Spies rule!

    PS. Damn, I hope this gets released in between when I leave school and when I come home.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • IcemopperIcemopper Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    Urgh...

    Today. That's today in whatever timezone Valve is situated. As in, any time before midnight. They said nothing beyond that, because they're not fucking idiots. Anyone who gives you a timeframe is guessing, and as we should all know by now, guessing Valve Timeâ„¢ is futile.

    Dude, no need to get defensive, I just asked what time to expect, man.

    Icemopper on
  • _TROLL__TROLL_ Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    am i the only one who primarily used scout in tf/tfc?

    i loved scout, you moved so freaking fast, you could cap the flag before the enemy team even knew what happened. i hope scout is still awesome


    I played scout mainly in most games myself. But it was more of a distraction than for capping. I left that to others on my team (unless they needed it). I enjoyed whacking someone and then having them spend a couple of seconds chasing me before walking into a conc and then realizing I was gone. Great fun.

    _TROLL_ on
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  • MumblyfishMumblyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Icemopper wrote: »
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    Urgh...

    Today. That's today in whatever timezone Valve is situated. As in, any time before midnight. They said nothing beyond that, because they're not fucking idiots. Anyone who gives you a timeframe is guessing, and as we should all know by now, guessing Valve Time™ is futile.
    Dude, no need to get defensive, I just asked what time to expect, man.
    Understand that this has been asked often, and that the answer is easily reached without the aid of anonymous strangers:

    Valve.

    Mumblyfish on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    hahaha i think it's unlocking now

    see you in half an hour

    Orikaeshigitae on
This discussion has been closed.