JAEF spent $1775 and cried about it. Computer bought. Thanks guys.

JAEF

So my computer has begun shitting all over itself and will not even let me browse the web without freezing up. Time for a new one. I have a budget of $1400-$1800. I'm willing to pay a bit more as long as the increase in performance, stability, or ease of use merits the extra money.

Things I want from my new system:
·I will be playing new games like Crysis in 1920x1200. I want to run at max settings flawlessly.
·I would like a good amount of hard drive space. Maybe some sort of RAID setup? What would be best? I plan to get an external HD to backup anything important, so just fast loading would be key. Two hard drives set to stripe or whatnot would be good no?
·I'm building from the ground up, I won't be poaching any tower components from my old computer so it has to be a fully functioning mo-cheen, and hopefully I can get Overheaty McFreezmo back up and running later.
·Overclocking. I've never done it. How would I even go about it? Is it worth it? I'm finally at a point where I'm interested.

Parts:
Power Supply: Corsair 520W SLI Certified Modular ATX Power Supply looks like everything I could ever want. I'm willing to spend this amount on a power supply that will let me reduce clutter and kick huge ass.
$100

Video Card: GeForce 8800GTS 640MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCIEx16 is probably something I want to go for since I'll be playing in a very high resolution. A few questions I have in this department: Would it be worth getting a midend 7800 and playing games at mid settings for now while I wait for the (mysterious!) DX10.1 cards? I'm leaning towards no. Also, the same card with an 80mhz faster core clock speed is like $50 more. Am I right in thinking it wouldn't be worth that $50? Potentially considering a GTX
$370 - $500

DVD Read/Burn Drive:I only really want one. This Lite-On 421,000 in one burner looks plenty fine. Don't think this'll be a big deal?
$35

Motherboard: I have no clue here. I want RAID, SATA 3gb, a fast FSB and something that fits a Core 2 Duo Will something like this work? I could use a lot of help on this one. I don't give a fuck about dual SLI though, I will never use it.
$100-250

Processor: Quad-Core doesn't really show the gaming peformance over Dual core that I want so I'm thinking of going with an E6750 or E6850. I don't think I can justify the $100 extra for the 6850 when I can just overclock the 6750 and potentially upgrade later, no? Probably go with the E6750 here.
$199

Heatsink/Fan for Processor: Should I go for a better one than what comes with the processor? What would you folks suggest.

Hard Drives: 10,000 RPM.. still not worth the cost? Looking at this nice Western Digital 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3GB/s drive. Maybe 2 or 3 in a RAID array? I just started pushing the 80 gigs on my last computer, I think 320 will be more than enough for the next few years. Edit: Probably going for 3 of these in a RAID array.
$225

Case: I want a nice case with excellent airflow and some room to work. This Thermaltake Armor ATX Full-Size looks pretty nice. OMGHUGE is not too big of a deal as it won't be moving too much and the nice look of it is keen. Or maybe this Thermaltake ATX Mid-Size. If it matters my little slice of life is pretty dusty (due to a chinchilla) so I need a case that hopefully isn't going to suck up dust like a vacuum. Open to suggestions here, but the last thing I want to be doing is dicking around installing extra fans. I had to drive to Fry's and pick up extra case fans last time because my shitty case didn't come with em, and screwing them in manually was a bitch.
$75-150

RAM: Need some RAM with good timing. I'll probably go for two 2x1GB sets for 4GB of RAM total. Will nail this down when I find out what motherboard I'm using so I can make sure it's compatible. These run about $100 per 2GB dual channel set.
$200

Vista: I want to pick up Vista 64 bit. My XP key is currently fucked and I can't even seem to find the disc with the key to call MS, I probably loaned it to someone, so I'd like to start fresh with an OS I'll be using in the near future. $111 from Newegg for a nontransferrable copy. Comments on this?
$111

Total Current Price: $1415 - $1770

That's all I can really think of right now. Please, help me out with ideas. I've built my last two PCs so I can wing most of the cobbling it together. Just not real up to date on hardware.

zilo

I'd spring for the 8800GTX. Faster clock, a bit more memory, wider bus, and so on. The Ultra's probably not worth the $100 premium but I couldn't be happier with the GTX.

10k RPM hard drives really do help boot times, and load times in games. I wish I'd gotten one when I built my machine; I may yet retire my second HD and pick up a smallish 10k Raptor or something for OS and program installs.

As for the case, I adore my Antec P180. It's roomy without being huge, has lots of room to run cables, and is reasonably quiet. Plus the fan intakes have filters on 'em.

Also, eVga. Their customer service is excellent.

JAEF

The GTX fits in the P180? How comfortably?

Also, while faster loading is great, I'm not sure if I'm willing to pay a premium (more than twice the price with half the space) for it. Since it doesn't directly affect gameplay, (I wouldn't consider loading times gameplay) unless it is a very serious improvement I don't think I could justify spending that kind of money. I also hear they're loud?

I could maybe consider getting one 150GB 10k and one 320GB 7.2 for standard data. How would that compare with a RAID array in terms of performance?

Edit: Keep the feedback coming please, I'm a very stingy person with money in general but when I'm making large purchases of this sort I always seem to vomit out the cash very quickly and just purchase the things on the spot, for better or for worse. So I'm trying to nail down what's really going to work for me before I go ahead with this. Although I currently cannot game and TF2 beta is coming out tomorrow and I have two days of Tuesday and Wednesday and I will cry horrible tears since I won't be done with this by next week, likely. Horrible tears.

Pojaco

I've been using 2 of these 250gb drives in a striped array for a while now, highly recommended. I've purchased more than 6 of these drives over the past couple years.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822144701

Raiden333

I would not recommend booting with solely Vista x64, I've heard the driver support just isn't there. I plan to build a sort of similar computer system (though I'm going with a quadcore I plan to overclock to around 3.0 GHz and a modest video card to hold me over till November when Nvidia's 92 series is supposed to come out) and from what I've read if you want to run x64, you should dual-boot it with either XP or the x86 version of Vista so you can run all the shit you need that won't work in x64.

khain

Here is a good article on a raptor versus a raid array and the pros and cons of each.

DrFrylock

JAEF wrote: »

I'm willing to pay a bit more as long as the increase in performance, stability, or ease of use merits the extra money.

·Overclocking. I've never done it. How would I even go about it? Is it worth it? I'm finally at a point where I'm interested.

Pick one?

Core

I've got that exact case your looking at and I have to say I like it a lot, its pretty heavy, but you kind of expect that with a full tower. The thing I like about it is that it has a ton of room for everything and opens up real easy. I'd recommend it.

Salvation122

Do you plan on buying a new monitor?

cooljammer00

can a sub 2 grand computer even run Crysis like a dream?

archonwarp

cooljammer00 wrote: »

can a sub 2 grand computer even run Crysis like a dream?

Considering the parts he has there are in the 95% of highend, I would say so. JAEF, why not look into that one RAID array that has striped data + one extra drive of full-data for extra redundancy? I know it may be loud, but it would probably be the best failsafe. You probably saw the slickeals thread for the Western Digital external drive, but if you didn't, they have one for 100 OTD, 50 AR at some generic office store.

Consider going for some very good fans to keep your PC QUIET. You have a lot of loud stuff in there, and setting yourself up to be as quiet as possible would be a very good idea. Also, make sure your PSU is >80% efficiency certified, as they run much quieter (since they don't need blasting fans running all the time), Produce less heat (same reason), and save on electric bills.

JAEF

Salvation122 wrote: »

Do you plan on buying a new monitor?

Sorry I did not mention this, I have a great 24" monitor which is why I'll be running everything in 1920x1200.

Also, make sure your PSU is >80% efficiency certified, as they run much quieter (since they don't need blasting fans running all the time), Produce less heat (same reason), and save on electric bills.

The same power supply on newegg mentions 80% efficiency with a nice quiet 120mm fan.

You probably saw the slickeals thread for the Western Digital external drive, but if you didn't, they have one for 100 OTD, 50 AR at some generic office store.

I did not (Slickdeals is on my standard computer's bookmark list, not this one's, and I totally didn't even think of it.) Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely be picking that up.

why not look into that one RAID array that has striped data + one extra drive of full-data for extra redundancy

I think this is what I was originally going for. That would take 3 drives, no? 3x the 320 drives I listed would probably work. I just need a motherboard that supports it. Edit: After reading that RAID vs 10,000 article I'm definitely just going with 7,200 drives in.. I think it's RAID 5? Two striped one backup.

I would not recommend booting with solely Vista x64, I've heard the driver support just isn't there.

Support for what? I don't do anything crazy on my computer, it's pretty much just games. Everything I've heard about Vista from people here on the forums that actually use it is "I've had no problems." I'm really not interested in buying a copy of Vista AND XP.

zilo

JAEF wrote: »

The GTX fits in the P180? How comfortably?

Quite comfortably. It doesn't block anything on my Intel 975 motherboard and there's plenty of clearance.

TechBoy

JAEF wrote: »

I would not recommend booting with solely Vista x64, I've heard the driver support just isn't there.

Support for what? I don't do anything crazy on my computer, it's pretty much just games. Everything I've heard about Vista from people here on the forums that actually use it is "I've had no problems." I'm really not interested in buying a copy of Vista AND XP.

I want to know what drivers I don't have. Even my TV Tuner card has drivers. Drivers built into Vista. XP x64 had the missing drivers plague. That was 2 years ago.

Also, not that I want to sow more doubt or anything into your big spending of $texas, but is RAID really worth it? (I'm talking about RAID0) Pretty much all I've read about RAID is that if you're going to be moving huge files around it will make a difference, but for games and apps it will make a negligible difference.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2974&p=7 wrote:

Now that we have basically removed the CPU from being a factor in these tests, we see a 30% difference with RAID 0 during encoding, a 21% difference in file extraction, and a 45% difference when doing file copy or move operations on the RAID volume.

All of those results sound very impressive but in the balance of our application and game tests we only noticed a 2%~3% performance difference between RAID 0 and single drive configurations. Unless you extract files, copy or move them on the same drive, and encode all day long then the benefits of RAID 0 on the typical consumer desktop is not worth the price of admission. What is the price? In this case, $399 for a second 7K1000, a halving of the mean time between failure rates on each drive, a data backup nightmare, and increases in noise, thermals, and power consumption.

Some graphs from the above article to illustrate:

Game


Copying a File



The article is specifically about the new faptastic 1TB Hitachi drives, but the results are generally applicable to RAID vs. Single drive. Not to mention the whole if one drive fails all the data is lost thing. Other RAIDs can protect against the data loss but at the cost of speed.

Just throwing that out there so you can make the choice that meshes best with how you use your computer.

JAEF

Very interesting. If that is indeed the case I may just fork over for a raptor 150GB and a single 320GB 7,200 for random data Would only be about $50 more than the 3 drives together and easier to setup.

Thanks for the information.

tsmvengy

RAM: Go for 2x2GB if you want 4 Gigs, no point in going for 4 1GB modules.

Mobo: I have heard good things about this Gigabyte motherboard.

Heatsink: Only get one if you want to overclock or if you want the computer to be more quiet (though with an 8800GTX it's not going to be that quiet.) Something like this or this will keep your processor cool without a lot of noise.

PSU: That PSU rocks and is one of the quietest. 520W is plenty of power for almost any build.

Case: I would go for the Antec P180. It has a great design and will fit the 8800GTX easily. If you want to blow all your moneys, get this (hotness.)

JAEF

tsmvengy wrote: »

RAM: Go for 2x2GB if you want 4 Gigs, no point in going for 4 1GB modules.

The board you mentioned doesn't support any 2GB DDR2 800 sticks. What's wrong with 4 1GB sticks rather than 2 2GB?

Build: My wish lists doesn't want to process sooooo..

Antec P180 Black $130
8800 GTX from EVGA $530
Core 2 Duo E6750 $200
2xCrucial 2x1GB DDR2 800 $220
Western Digital 320GB 7,200 RPM $75
Western Digital Raptor 150GB 10,000 RPM Moneysink $185
Lite-On Burn Anything Laser Cupholder $35
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R Mobo $130
Sweet 520W Modular Rosewill Power Supply $100

Not considering rebates (those things are fuckin' iffy)

Total after taxes and shipping: $1885

Ouch. What do ya'll think? I'm probably going to regret buying that GTX..

Edit: Maybe This CPU heatsink? Yesno?

AresProphet

Good picks all around, I've heard better things about Patriot's 2x1GB RAM which is what I ended up buying, but Crucial makes good stuff too. Rebate makes it $5 less, if that means anything. You may also just want to stick with 2GB for now and see how things run, 4GB is overkill for most people. Your CPU will be your bottleneck before your RAM is, in most games. Plus, you always can spend the extra $110 a few months down the road after the initial purchase has stopped making your balls ache.

I really wish I'd waited for the E6750, my E6600 cost more and has slower cores. Sucks to be an early adopter.

Picking a motherboard is by far the hardest part of building, so you're probably set on the Gigabyte, but eVGA has a 650i chipset for $99 right now. Skimps on a couple of audio outputs and has fewer SATA ports (4) but it's cheaper and I've been extremely pleased with my eVGA so far. Some people have the nVidia chipsets though.

Corsair makes a good PSU, and modular is going to be a lifesaver (mine's not, utter pain in the ass).

Edit: skip the GTX, get the 640MB GTS and overclock it. Other than the extra memory and memory bus, which isn't as a big a deal as you'd think, you can clock the GTS to GTX speeds without even trying. The GTX is for when you want your games running at 110FPS rather than 100FPS. Is that worth $160? No. Snag RivaTuner and get your clock speeds up to about 600/1000 (you have a P180, which is practically a wind tunnel, so heat isn't an issue).

Don't bother with aftermarket CPU cooling unless you plan to overclock, and you should plan to overclock with a Core 2 Duo. They're incredibly good at it even on stock cooling, and most (all? not sure) games treat them as a dedicated 2.66GHz (in your case) core, while the second core does nothing gaming-related and handles background programs and OS stuff. Some newer, shinier games may not have this problem, but I play MMOs and all of them are restricted to a single core, which sucks.

In any case, you can probably skip aftermarket cooling with the P180 if you only plan to clock up to the 3.0-3.2GHz range. You'll still be running 55-60C under load though, which makes some people nervous.

JAEF

Chose the RAM because it was on the mobo's compatibility list and still well priced. I have to be honest I really can't find a motherboard that I think really fits me, but that Gigabyte is really close.

JAEF

Got my wish list working. All that and a solid power supply. Anything wrong with it?

And thoughts on using this heatsink for the CPU?

Super edit: Ended up buying the current updated wishlist+Modular power supply from buy.com

Thanks everyone for all your help. Now I just wait until Monday to get all my shit and cry while everyone else plays TF2.

tsmvengy

Build looks good. Heatsink looks fine - not sure how quiet the fan is though. The fact that it has screws not pins is a major plus. Otherwise it all looks pretty slick.