Government should not have the right to tell me what I can and cant allow in an establishment that I own, esp. if its not an illegal activity.
Drinking is legal. Drinking in the car is not. Are you saying the government should not be allowed to ban drinking in cars without banning alcohol altogether?
Also, I'd like to muddy the waters with an analogy:
me: "Oh, man, I love releasing radon in the bar that I run."
employee: "Hey, isn't radon dangerous?"
me: "OMG, mah freedomz!"
disclaimer:
My grandfather is currently in the hospital for smoking-related respiratory difficulties and has had two different kinds of cancer. I am very anti-smoking, and I resent those who consider it a right to poison me. I mean, does that mean I have the right to strangle you?
1) Theres already another thread along those lines.
2) Prohibition laws are a lot more closely related to the subject at hand.
Regardless, if a person decides, fully informed of the risk they are undertaking by driving a car while not wearing their seatbelt, to drive without wearing said seatbelt I have no problem with that and do not see why there should be legislation prohibiting it.
Just wanting to see if you're consistent.
Honestly I think if you're going to argue that the govt can't regulate smoking, you'd better be prepared to argue that it can't regulate drugs, alcohol, or other self-destructive, personal decisions across the board. Which is what you're saying, I believe. So I can respect that.
Smokers need to realize that to many non-smokers, smoking near them is the same as dropping trou and laying a deuce right there beside them. I couldn't care less about the heath benefits of less cigarette smoke in the air (even though it does irritate my eyes and throat). I just think that it is disgusting. And that is enough for me to support a total smoking ban.
The argument that "It isn't hurting anyone" and "So what it's gross, deal with it" doesn't go far with me. There are lots of gross things we do (masturbate, poop, piss, fart, belch, hump, walk around naked) that we shouldn't do in public, and some of them will get you arrested, though none of those things affect anyone else. Now, thinking about it, smoking isn't as gross as beating-off in public, but it is at least as gross as farts. But maybe that's because I am used to it.
What I am saying is to many of us, smoking is SO gross. Walk into a smoking household and it will almost knock you on your ass. But smokers are oblivious to the smell, so it is part of the argument that they will never get.
"Well, it is my choice to be gross!" - With the direction things are headed, not for long. Get used to the idea.
Really, there's no argument against the idea that the government has a right to regulate workplace safety, right? Because they'd be retarded. So, really, the only argument against the smoking bans in this thread should be based on scientific evidence that second-hand smoke isn't actually harmful, or isn't harmful enough that the government should be regulating it. I'd say the studies mentioned in the OP present some evidence to the contrary, though nothing entirely conclusive.
Has anyone watched the Penn and Teller Bullshit episode on second hand smoke? I have no clue if their actually right, but according to them the two most popular studies that are cited to get these laws passed don't actually say what the headlines say they do. I'll get more information when I get home from work if anyone is interested.
I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to smoke outside when there aren't many, or any, people around. I always make the effort not to smoke near people who aren't smoking and am not exposing people who aren't currently smoking at the time to anything. Why should I be banned from doing that when I'm not putting anyone at risk or even causing anyone any discomfort.
Has anyone watched the Penn and Teller Bullshit episode on second hand smoke? I have no clue if their actually right, but according to them the two most popular studies that are cited to get these laws passed don't actually say what the headlines say they do. I'll get more information when I get home from work if anyone is interested.
I have. I've also seen studies which seem to point to a substantial decrease in breathing-related health problems among stewards/stewardesses when smoking was banned on commercial flights.
Didn't we already have a thread on how much bullshit Bullshit! spews?
Yes. We did. Let's... not... have that again.
From memory, the claims that SHS has little effect are based on it spreading into larger volumes. That is not the case within a closed environment, so it's sort of irrelevant. I may be incorrect in this, and I'd be interested in seeing actual data.
Posts
Also, I'd like to muddy the waters with an analogy:
me: "Oh, man, I love releasing radon in the bar that I run."
employee: "Hey, isn't radon dangerous?"
me: "OMG, mah freedomz!"
disclaimer:
My grandfather is currently in the hospital for smoking-related respiratory difficulties and has had two different kinds of cancer. I am very anti-smoking, and I resent those who consider it a right to poison me. I mean, does that mean I have the right to strangle you?
When I drink so much beer I wish it was that way with alcohol. Would have prevented me sleeping with that coyote ugly
B.net: Kusanku
Just wanting to see if you're consistent.
Honestly I think if you're going to argue that the govt can't regulate smoking, you'd better be prepared to argue that it can't regulate drugs, alcohol, or other self-destructive, personal decisions across the board. Which is what you're saying, I believe. So I can respect that.
The argument that "It isn't hurting anyone" and "So what it's gross, deal with it" doesn't go far with me. There are lots of gross things we do (masturbate, poop, piss, fart, belch, hump, walk around naked) that we shouldn't do in public, and some of them will get you arrested, though none of those things affect anyone else. Now, thinking about it, smoking isn't as gross as beating-off in public, but it is at least as gross as farts. But maybe that's because I am used to it.
What I am saying is to many of us, smoking is SO gross. Walk into a smoking household and it will almost knock you on your ass. But smokers are oblivious to the smell, so it is part of the argument that they will never get.
"Well, it is my choice to be gross!" - With the direction things are headed, not for long. Get used to the idea.
And Rhaegar died." -Jorah Mormont
Deal.
And Rhaegar died." -Jorah Mormont
Yes. We did. Let's... not... have that again.
From memory, the claims that SHS has little effect are based on it spreading into larger volumes. That is not the case within a closed environment, so it's sort of irrelevant. I may be incorrect in this, and I'd be interested in seeing actual data.