As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

iPhOWNED pt 2

123468

Posts

  • GihgehlsGihgehls Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ufo wrote: »
    danger os is what runs on sidekicks. and since its exclusive to the sidekick line it is tied to the hardware. its actually quite a slick os.

    I'm going to be very sad when my sidekick II dies. I have tried the others but this is the SK that does it for me. The OS is so streamlined and slick that I don't even notice it anymore. I can check my email, read a text, and reply to an IM all in about 6 seconds. Keyboard shortcuts FTW.

    Gihgehls on
    PA-gihgehls-sig.jpg
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'm thinking we won't see an iPhone v2 until June of next year. The hardware is "good enough" to get them through for a while and Apple traditionally has a habit of squeezing every last drop out of each model. June 2008 should be around the time when we finally get v1 officially in Canada.

    Threepio on
    142.jpg
  • ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Septus you aren't thinking about using an iPhone on the Sprint network are you?

    Shogun on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I have to say, watching Street Fighter 3 combo videos on my friends Iphone during class today was pretty slick.

    Not slick enough to make me buy one, but I wouldn't mind owning one.

    Inquisitor on
  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    well it seems to me Evander is putting out valid arguments and Threepio is toeing the party line.

    which is sad, considering I know how Evander usually works.

    Kuribo's Shoe on
    xmassig2.gif
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Evander, I just can't see consumers as victims. At least, not in relationship to mp3 player technology. Consumers may not make the objectively "best" choice, but sure as hell aren't forced to buy pieces of luxury technology against their will, nor buy subpar ones that don't meet their basic needs.

    If perceived style is a need, then consumers will buy to meet it.

    If it makes any sense, it is almost more like the market is the victim. Let me see if I can at least lay out the steps that lead to my conclusions, so you can see where I'm coming from on this.



    First of all, I believe that the popularity of the iPod has held the market back, both in price and in technology. This is because consumers have seemingly decided that rather than placing the focus of their demand on features or price, they have placed it specifically on the iPod. A great example of this is the fact that mp3 players that did video were mostly ignored until the iPod video came along, and even though it had an arguably inferior screen to the competition, it was quickly adopted. As far as price, there have been many competitors who have tried to price lowers than the iPod (which is not difficutl considering that these devices are not extremely expensive to manufacture) but the consumers have mostly ignored these price differences, sticking instead with the iPod.

    Because there does not seem to be any way for competitors to gainsignificant marketshare, the only way for them to maximize their profits is to stay as close to the iPod in both price and technology, so as not to lose any of their existing marketshare, while taking in the theoretical highest ammount possible.



    This is why I say that the iPod brand has stagnated the market. Apple has been notorious for keepingthe iPod price at a steady point, and only ever releasing new units, rather than dropping prices. They have also been slow to upgrade to knewer technologies, often waiting until competitors have been doing something for at least a generation before adopting it (and generally, less competitors are trying new things these days, unless they are trying to shift to a seperate market, such as, arguable, the new Archos player.)

    This is what I view as being "unethical", that Apple would allow the market to stagnate like this. You may not put as much stake as I do in the growth of the market, and that is totally your right, but to me, to cause a still growing market to stagnate, even if unintentionally, is highly unethical, because it deniesconsumers the ability to choose something more.

    Evander on
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    Robble robble robble I hate the iPod

    We get it man. We get it. You can stop now.

    Threepio on
    142.jpg
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Threepio wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Robble robble robble I hate the iPod

    We get it man. We get it. You can stop now.

    ...

    If you want him to be quiet, actually refute his point instead of just committing ad hominem attacks and straw manning him.

    Christ.

    Inquisitor on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I like how Evander explains his point, people reduce it to robble robble I hate the IPOD and think they have won. It's like ignorance on display.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Threepio wrote: »
    He owns a Zune.


    Suddenly it all becomes clear.

    Yup, I paid money for an iPod, which lasted an expectable ammount of time for that sort of device, and when it came time to replace it, before I could make a purchase of any sort, I was given a free Zune.



    So, yeah, iPod is the only mp3 player I was ever actually willing to buy



    TOTALLY biased against it, mirite?

    edit: for full disclosure, the only mp3 player I ever had before the iPod was a Rio Diamond. ZOMG, IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

    Evander on
  • Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    It's a like a little piece of the Digg comments section of our very own.

    Fatty McBeardo on
  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Damnit evander. No, they aren't fucking stagnating the market. Welcome to capitalism. If you want to make a better mp3 player, hop right on that. If it's better, and people know about it, it will sell. The iPod is a fantastic device. Other devices have gained a bad reputation (for instance, the creative jukebox is the thing with the worst UI in the history of anything when I used it, though it may have improved now) and others don't want to use anything else. They KNOW the ipod has a good track record, it WORKS, it's by a reputable company.

    Stop coming into threads about the iPhone and telling us about how Apple is an evil corporation that's trying to take over the world. They're TRYING TO MAKE MONEY AND DOING QUITE WELL.

    SniperGuy on
  • MorskittarMorskittar Lord Warlock Engineer SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Sorry Evander, I lost you at "the market is the victim".

    The market is consumers. It doesn't mean a damn thing without them.

    Consumers are happy with the iPod, and less so with the iPhone. Really, the only thing that matters are those expectations. Not features, not abstract "value", nothing quantifiable, and to some extent, not even price. If consumer needs are met at the price, no one's a victim (in this scenario).

    Morskittar on
    snm_sig.jpg
  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    evan admit it microsoft gave you that zune so you'd come into every apple thread and disparage their products

    except you went rogue and instead disparaged their effect on their market

    and now microsoft is sending a black ops team to get its zune back

    the movie will be out next year

    Kuribo's Shoe on
    xmassig2.gif
  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Damnit evander. No, they aren't fucking stagnating the market. Welcome to capitalism. If you want to make a better mp3 player, hop right on that. If it's better, and people know about it, it will sell. The iPod is a fantastic device. Other devices have gained a bad reputation (for instance, the creative jukebox is the thing with the worst UI in the history of anything when I used it, though it may have improved now) and others don't want to use anything else. They KNOW the ipod has a good track record, it WORKS, it's by a reputable company.

    Stop coming into threads about the iPhone and telling us about how Apple is an evil corporation that's trying to take over the world. They're TRYING TO MAKE MONEY AND DOING QUITE WELL.

    but EA does this and they're douchebags.

    I don't get it.

    Kuribo's Shoe on
    xmassig2.gif
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I used to carry by 30gb ipod about all the time, but then i picked up a SE k810i and shoved a 2gb card in, originally for photos. Turns out the 1.5 gb I currently use for songs is more than what I need - sure, every week or so I might swap some stuff around, but it isn't a hassle, and hey, the phone is also a radio, so double win.

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Damnit evander. No, they aren't fucking stagnating the market. Welcome to capitalism. If you want to make a better mp3 player, hop right on that. If it's better, and people know about it, it will sell. The iPod is a fantastic device. Other devices have gained a bad reputation (for instance, the creative jukebox is the thing with the worst UI in the history of anything when I used it, though it may have improved now) and others don't want to use anything else. They KNOW the ipod has a good track record, it WORKS, it's by a reputable company.

    Stop coming into threads about the iPhone and telling us about how Apple is an evil corporation that's trying to take over the world. They're TRYING TO MAKE MONEY AND DOING QUITE WELL.

    but EA does this and they're douchebags.

    I don't get it.

    Well that's because they buy shit and put out inferior products and ruin games we once loved. I think. I never got on the "hey let's all hate EA" train.

    SniperGuy on
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    The iPod is popular.

    Apparently this is a bad thing.

    Competitors make what Evander considers to be a better product - yet few people buy them. Evander contends this is Apple's fault.


    You CAN NOT blame a manufacturer for the actions of their customers. People buy iPods because they like they way the look, they like the way they operate and they like the accessories they can get for them. If you walk into any of our stores there's up to four times as much space alloted to other MP3 players - yet the iPod consistently outsells them.

    Customers have the motive, means and opportunity to find the best product for their needs. If they don't avail themselves of the information that's freely available you can't fault Apple.

    Whether you want to believe it or not, customers are happy with the iPod. In our research there is a satisfaction index that's unmatched by ANY OTHER PRODUCT IN OUR STORE.

    Yeah, folks are really being manipulated. It's a terrible, terrible world. So go back to your robble robble robble and your strawman parties lads. It's up to Microsoft, Sandisk, Creative, iRiver, Helio and god knows who the fuck else to solve this - not Apple.

    Threepio on
    142.jpg
  • ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'm very happy with my iphone. I'm just waiting to install my update until all this horse shit dies down.

    Shogun on
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    Threepio wrote: »
    Apple Genius' are un-bricking iPhones.

    Awww, there goes the "Apple is teh evil" mantra. Pity, really.

    That article just lead me to think of some conspiracy theories, but I'm going to go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt, and just say that they are handling this well.

    Geniuses do have a fair amount of discretion. Not to say it couldn't be policy, but it's not necessarily.

    Adrien on
    tmkm.jpg
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Okay, Sinperguy, then explain why the Zune's marketshare is below 10%. Microsoft is a pretty damn reputable company, and those who have used the Zune always remark on ease of use. IF that is REALLY why the iPod is selling, then why aren't other devices selling based on that as well?



    I, for one, am ALL in favor of capitalism. What bothers me is when a company gets a monopoly, real or virtual, and then, whether or not it is there own fault, barriers to entry start showing up. That situation PREVENTS capitalism from running its proper course.



    And notice that I have NOT advocated any sort of solutions here, nor have I EVER called Apple Evil, or attacked the iPod itself. The device is solid, the Company, while I disapprove of some of their practise is a company like any other, and Ithink that the entire situation will eventually play itself out ans resolve, I just look forward to seeing that happen, because, as a consumer myself, I would very much like to see the more fully functioned devices, at cheaper prices, that by all logic SHOULD be on the market right now.

    Evander on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Threepio wrote: »
    I'm thinking we won't see an iPhone v2 until June of next year. The hardware is "good enough" to get them through for a while and Apple traditionally has a habit of squeezing every last drop out of each model. June 2008 should be around the time when we finally get v1 officially in Canada.

    A 3G version was confirmed by Apple to be released "sometime" in 2008.
    Shogun wrote: »
    Septus you aren't thinking about using an iPhone on the Sprint network are you?

    Sadly no, not with CDMA and all that.

    As for this argument, we've heard both sides argue their point, reasonably, many times before. I just wish we could stop it already, and that an ipod thread could remain ungraced by its presence.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • wasted pixelswasted pixels Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Threepio, I just wanted to thank you for being a voice of reason and saving me the trouble of having to post in this thread. :^:

    wasted pixels on
  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    to be fair, Apple has a lot more money behind it than most of its competitors, except maybe microsoft, and they're making so much money I don't really think they care that much. The zune is a quality player though.

    Kuribo's Shoe on
    xmassig2.gif
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I forget who mentioned them in this thread, but man, those Archos Gen 5 players look pretty snazzy.

    Inquisitor on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Sorry Evander, I lost you at "the market is the victim".

    The market is consumers. It doesn't mean a damn thing without them.

    Consumers are happy with the iPod, and less so with the iPhone. Really, the only thing that matters are those expectations. Not features, not abstract "value", nothing quantifiable, and to some extent, not even price. If consumer needs are met at the price, no one's a victim (in this scenario).

    I think we're just missing each other outright onthis one.

    I don't disagree that consumers are happy. I guess I careabout the "why", and looking into if they could possibly be happier, whereas you are more concerned with what is actually going on, rather than the possibilities.



    It's okay, though. I'm young and idealistic, so I'm allowed to go off on these sorts of strange focusses in my spare time. :P

    Evander on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Thinking about the possibilities might be interesting, but many psychological studies show that people are terribly bad at predicting what will make them happy. I wouldn't be surprised, if consumers, given awareness of an even greater number of products, throughout many different markets, would be less happy, when agonizing of what to buy. Product choice is probably over-glorified in our economy.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    "those who have used the Zune always remark on ease of use. "

    No, they don't. Maybe the people you've seen, but most professional reviewers laughed their asses off when they saw the Zune. Leo Laporte and crew remarked on how bad the UI was in comparison to an iPod, how everyone instinctually tries to use the wheel as a touch wheel, and how unnecessarily thick it is.

    The iPod has a much better reputation, and a side by side comparison sees the iPod winning out on most things. Aside from even the software you use it with.

    But wait a sec, this is an iPhone thread! So let's see why the iPhone is so highly thought of? Because it's basically an iPod with a phone thrown in. With a shiny new interface that works even better than usual, and to top it all off, it's got the easiest UI and featureset to use of any phone any consumer has ever heard of.

    SniperGuy on
  • MorskittarMorskittar Lord Warlock Engineer SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    The Zune has shit market share because:

    1. It's not cool. It's not an iPod.

    2. It can't play all the iTunes music everyone bought, without extra effort. There is not just little or no reason to switch; there's actual financial and time-related disadvantages to switching.

    3. It's not cool. White earbuds are a fashion accessory.

    It's Apple's "fault" they were the first to bring a customer-friendly, hip, device to market, with a self-perpetuating DRM lock-in. It's not evil, unethical, or whatever. It's good marketing and business.

    edit: I'm an absolute idealist. I just don't think it's possible to move beyond without accepting the realities of the situation first.

    Morskittar on
    snm_sig.jpg
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I never did get people that would shell out big bucks for an Ipod, and then stick with the shitty bundled ear buds.

    Inquisitor on
  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    so the zune is doing bad because it's not an ipod

    this seems to strengthen Evander's point

    Kuribo's Shoe on
    xmassig2.gif
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Basically, what it comesdown to is that I am talking about the effect that the iPodbrand has had on the market. Forget my ethicscomments, and just look atthose effects I described, and if you agree that they have indeed happened, thenyou can make your own judgements based onthem.



    At this point, I think that anyone who is going to actually read my words has read them (and anyone else is goign to assume I'm attacking the iPod, ignoring the factthatevery comment I've made about the device itself has been positive) and it's after 6, so I am headed home.

    It was nice chatting with some of you. ;-)

    Evander on
  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    also you've got to figure if someone comes out with an mp3 player better than the ipod (heresy!), would anyone care? or simply point out the fact that it is not an ipod, so you should not buy it?

    Kuribo's Shoe on
    xmassig2.gif
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Sorry Evander, I lost you at "the market is the victim".

    The market is consumers. It doesn't mean a damn thing without them.

    Consumers are happy with the iPod, and less so with the iPhone. Really, the only thing that matters are those expectations. Not features, not abstract "value", nothing quantifiable, and to some extent, not even price. If consumer needs are met at the price, no one's a victim (in this scenario).

    I think we're just missing each other outright onthis one.

    I don't disagree that consumers are happy. I guess I careabout the "why", and looking into if they could possibly be happier, whereas you are more concerned with what is actually going on, rather than the possibilities.

    It's okay, though. I'm young and idealistic, so I'm allowed to go off on these sorts of strange focusses in my spare time. :P

    The possibilities? So you freely admit that you're dealing in fictional events that haven't yet taken place?

    Now THAT'S a straw man!

    Seriously though, why are people happy with the iPod? It's stylish, it's affordable and it works? Nah, that couldn't be it at all.

    Clearly, it's the giant corporation that had 0% market share only six years ago that has manipulated their way to the top through... uh... what did they do again?

    Stagnated the market with high priced low quality products with poor interfaces? You know, that doesn't really seem to have a ring of truth to it.

    So, Evander - how exactly - and keep it in short sentences for my poor brain (maybe you could bullet point a list for me) does Apple keep their competitors down? What active steps does Apple take to crush the competition.

    Is is a five step program? Or the Microsoft Embrace/Extend/Destroy approach. Come on, cut the page long posts and get to the heart of the matter.

    Threepio on
    142.jpg
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Morskittar wrote: »
    2. It can't play all the iTunes music everyone bought, without extra effort. There is not just little or no reason to switch; there's actual financial and time-related disadvantages to switching.

    Just one quick aside: I have found that there is no quicker way to quiet an Apple geek than to point out that the bundling of iTunes with the iPod s NO DIFFERENT from the bundling of Internet Explorer with Windows back in 90's.

    Evander on
  • GihgehlsGihgehls Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Posting to remark on my Zune's ease of use. I showed my zune to alot of the ipod owners at work and they all had a reaction similar to "oh wow, that IS pretty cool. I had no idea."

    I should also say that EVERYONE has tried to use the dpad as a touch pad. I always have to tell them "no, remember when I told you it WASN'T an ipod?"

    Gihgehls on
    PA-gihgehls-sig.jpg
  • wasted pixelswasted pixels Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I never did get people that would shell out big bucks for an Ipod, and then stick with the shitty bundled ear buds.

    Most people keep their volume so low that they probably can't tell the difference. I used to have a nice little Penguin-tin CMOY, and people were just dumbfounded by it.

    "Why do you need an amp for an mp3 player?"

    "More volume."

    "Why don't you just turn up the volume on the MP3 player?"

    "That sounds lousy."

    "How on earth can you tell a difference?!"

    "I listen."

    "That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard."

    I've also been teased mercilessly by a few of my friends who discovered that the MSRP on my headphones was $220. "For that much," they reason, "you could get an iPod!".

    wasted pixels on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I never did get people that would shell out big bucks for an Ipod, and then stick with the shitty bundled ear buds.
    Things that are oh so true!

    The worst, is when someone has their little apple ear buds in, and you can tell they have the sound cranked up all the way, because they leak sound HORRIBLY, and you can just hear how bad it all sounds from them trying to bump their music.

    Inquisitor on
  • MorskittarMorskittar Lord Warlock Engineer SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    The MS embrace/extend/destroy thing is gone, at this point. An increasingly diverse and robust technology industry has basically destroyed any possibility of this ever working again. See: Zune and Xbox... both only win users on their own terms, and nothing else. And neither is nearly a monopoly (or even doing exceptionally well). The next ten years, I see MS evolving into something very different than it is today.*

    In any case, Evander, I agree for the most part. I just don't see a need for consumers to replace their iPods, nor do I think the product is stagnating the market. Setting a higher bar for premium pricing, yeah. But that's not a negative, necessarily.

    I can't say Apple's done anything wrong, or even not well with the iPod. They've done damn near everything perfectly in both a business and consumer sense. The iPhone, on the other hand, wasn't sold with properly managed expectations; people thought they could do things with it that they couldn't.

    *I work for MS and I'm going to goddamn well make sure it is. There's that idealism. It's also rife with new hires practically chomping at the bit to take all these resources away from the old people and do cool things.

    Morskittar on
    snm_sig.jpg
  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited September 2007
    I am admittedly ignorant w.r.t. to the whole modding community, but don't the people who unlock their iPhones have the knowledge that upgraded firmware could disrupt their efforts? I mean, this entire hacking 'community' really relies on only a few brains. That's one of the main reasons for this huge outcry: you have all of these people who (feeling entitled) modded the iPhone with one of the provided methods, and now they are incapable of restoring their device. They're just waiting on one of the 'real' unlockers to develop a situation. It makes no sense to me. As is evidenced by the dozens- the hundreds-- of "omg omg omg I have a brick/I see a yellow light/my iPhone seems kind of warmer today than it was yesterday should I Jailbreak/etc. threads all over hackint0sh, howardforums, macrumors, etc.- these people are completely lost when their modifications don't go completely according to the plan (install this file, press that button... not understanding what functions are performed therein).

    I guess what I'm saying is that however heartless Apple is being, the people who are being really bothered by this must have been aware that in the event that something like this occurred they'd be entirely helpless (until the community makes public a fix). They clearly know enough to log onto howardforums and find an easy unlocking situation- so how do they not see the juxtaposed topics about firmware upgrades being potentially malicious to the phone's integrity?

    Organichu on
Sign In or Register to comment.