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iPhOWNED pt 2

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Posts

  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    2. It can't play all the iTunes music everyone bought, without extra effort. There is not just little or no reason to switch; there's actual financial and time-related disadvantages to switching.

    Just one quick aside: I have found that there is no quicker way to quiet an Apple geek than to point out that the bundling of iTunes with the iPod s NO DIFFERENT from the bundling of Internet Explorer with Windows back in 90's.

    RIM bundles Blackberry desktop manager with their Blackberries.

    Creative bundles their Zen manager with their Zens.

    Nokia bundles Nokia Media Manager with their phones.

    What software did you get with your Zune? Hmm?

    My god, a piece of hardware that comes with software that works for it! THOSE BASTARDS! If every mp3 player used firmware provided by Apple and Apple demanded they ship iTunes with it or they'd face higher rates, blackballing and worse, perhaps you'd have a case. As it stands this doesn't equate at all.

    You can certainly use software (and hardware) alternatives to iTunes - and in the case of many iPods (nano, shuffle) it doesn't even come with iTunes in the box anymore. Good attempt, fission mailed. Try again.

    Threepio on
    142.jpg
  • Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    It's also a lot different because it's an MP3 player. It's not a computer operating system.

    Fatty McBeardo on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    2. It can't play all the iTunes music everyone bought, without extra effort. There is not just little or no reason to switch; there's actual financial and time-related disadvantages to switching.

    Just one quick aside: I have found that there is no quicker way to quiet an Apple geek than to point out that the bundling of iTunes with the iPod s NO DIFFERENT from the bundling of Internet Explorer with Windows back in 90's.

    It's not exactly the same. There isn't/wasn't really a competing market to provide mp3 player managing software, it's a small, and it's entertainment device that's not used for business purposes. The tighter and tighter restrictions on being able to use other programs is annoying, but it's NOT as much of an impediment.

    Edit: Threepio, apple actually takes steps(I don't know how serious) to stop you from using other programs with it. This may only be a real issue with the iPhone, I'm not sure. Do those other mp3 players/phones have the same issue with barring other programs?

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Morskittar wrote: »
    The MS embrace/extend/destroy thing is gone, at this point. An increasingly diverse and robust technology industry has basically destroyed any possibility of this ever working again. See: Zune and Xbox... both only win users on their own terms, and nothing else. And neither is nearly a monopoly (or even doing exceptionally well). The next ten years, I see MS evolving into something very different than it is today.*

    *I work for MS and I'm going to goddamn well make sure it is. There's that idealism. It's also rife with new hires practically chomping at the bit to take all these resources away from the old people and do cool things.

    Microsoft has been changing relentlessly over the past few years - it's fascinating to watch the divisions that have achieved positive change and those that have yet to figure it out. Take a look at some of the projects and you can easily see points of flexibility and points of rigidity.

    Morskittar, thank you. Microsoft will keep plugging away no matter what happens, but I think it's the folks like you who are changing the company to make it better for the folks like us.

    Threepio on
    142.jpg
  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Threepio wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    The MS embrace/extend/destroy thing is gone, at this point. An increasingly diverse and robust technology industry has basically destroyed any possibility of this ever working again. See: Zune and Xbox... both only win users on their own terms, and nothing else. And neither is nearly a monopoly (or even doing exceptionally well). The next ten years, I see MS evolving into something very different than it is today.*

    *I work for MS and I'm going to goddamn well make sure it is. There's that idealism. It's also rife with new hires practically chomping at the bit to take all these resources away from the old people and do cool things.

    Microsoft has been changing relentlessly over the past few years - it's fascinating to watch the divisions that have achieved positive change and those that have yet to figure it out. Take a look at some of the projects and you can easily see points of flexibility and points of rigidity.

    Morskittar, thank you. Microsoft will keep plugging away no matter what happens, but I think it's the folks like you who are changing the company to make it better for the folks like us.

    I get to work alongside the team that was responsible for the Xbox warranty change; the North American customer service teams are really ramping up in terms of clout and determining other groups' direction. There's a lot of potential in that.

    Mostly irrelevant MS stuff aside, the concept of *not* bundling software with hardware is stupid; seeing integrated firmware as an abuse of monopoly is kind of like calling a steering wheel in a car an abuse.

    In the end, the iPod won every bit of market share it has, and rightly so. The iPhone won't have a free ride because of that, though; the expectations for phone users are *vastly* different than a device that does little more than play music and videos.

    Morskittar on
    snm_sig.jpg
  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    also you've got to figure if someone comes out with an mp3 player better than the ipod (heresy!), would anyone care? or simply point out the fact that it is not an ipod, so you should not buy it?

    but..ipods are already pretty near the bottom of the barrel. They have mediocre sound and video quality compared to other players, and their featureset and supported media formats are just a joke. But they're white, and they have good commercials, so thats that.

    taliosfalcon on
    WII U NNID- talios
    steam-taliosfalcon
    XBL-AdeptPenguin
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    You know who was also white with good commercials?

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Preacher wrote: »
    You know who was also white with good commercials?

    The Ku Klux Klan?

    Fatty McBeardo on
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Preacher wrote: »
    You know who was also white with good commercials?

    Michael Jackson?

    Threepio on
    142.jpg
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    God you guys suck at this. John Holmes obviously!

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    For the record, I agree with Evander. the iPod is a nice piece of hardware, it's just ...

    ... limited, is probably the best word.

    It'll only work with one specific piece of software, and only in one specfic way. There's no scope to use different software, or to switch devices while using the same software. If I was to purchase music using the iTunes/iPod solution, it means i'm then stuck with that solution, or sacrifice the music I spent money on (tedious burning/ripping workarounds notwithstanding).

    Basically, I expect more from a device than I would get from an iPod, which is why in the meantime I'll stick with my Archos Gmini and re-evaluate when/if it dies.

    Regarding the iPhone, I don't know.I suppose it's just something of an odd concept to me that I could buy a phone and not get a choice in what network I decide to connect it to. It seems weird to me that I would have to change hardware just to change network, and a phone that I can't stick a different SIM into as and when required is essentially useless.

    I've long accepted that Apple's idea of a quality product differs radically from my own, and that my tastes evidently don't align with the priorities of the average Apple customer. As such, in my eyes, Apple's consumer elecronics will remain the shoddy cousins of other options available. Which is a shame, because they make some damn nice general purpose computers, but I don't think I could buy a product from a company that makes such a poor showing in other marketplaces.

    japan on
  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    I NEVER called customers idiots.

    There is a difference between a lack of intelligence and a lack of information. Consumers in the mp3 player market seem to be relatively uninformed, compared to other markets. This is a trend both with new markets (which this one still is) as well ans with technological markets, so the fact that this happens here is no suprise, nor is it any slight against the consumers to point it out.

    Fine, uninformed. You're calling them uninformed based solely on the fact that they're buying things that YOU don't like. This is still conjecture. You don't know how well informed they are, since you have no data other than that lots of people buy ipods.
    As for the selling basedon brand name thingbeing "only conjecture", explain to me why else Apple would have such massive market share DESPITE the fact thatthere are other products out there with more features and/or lower prices.

    quality != feature lists

    And I also never said anything about feature lists. I asked for a reason other than brand recognition. Are you implying thatthe iPod has FAR superior quality to every other product on the market? I can tell you, flat out, that this is not true. While the iPod is by no means an inferior product, there are many products with near identical quality, and even some with superior quality.

    The fact is, aside from brand recognition (the effects of marketing being a subset of that) there really is no way to logically account for the sheer enormity of the iPod's market share.

    I bolded the part where you talked about feature lists. Yes, there are products out there with more features and lower prices, but nobody wants them for the same reason nobody wants linux, in spite of its more features and lower price - the quality isn't there. And I can tell you that YES, the ipod is a superior product - but you have to keep in mind that I'm not just talking about the quality of the materials used to build it (even though this is excellent), I'm talking about the entire package, and process of using an mp3 player. From my experience, and the experience of pretty much everyone I talk to, Ipods just work. Which is what people want. All that you're doing is showing how out of touch you are with the average consumer.
    Just one quick aside: I have found that there is no quicker way to quiet an Apple geek than to point out that the bundling of iTunes with the iPod s NO DIFFERENT from the bundling of Internet Explorer with Windows back in 90's.

    I'm not really an apple geek, but this post is retarded enough to justify another response. Here's the differences

    1) You know iTunes is required when you buy it. If I remember correctly, it says on the box or somewhere obvious that it requires iTunes. Windows did not make that clear when bundling ie - it was a stealth maneuver.

    2) iTunes was designed to work with the ipod from the beginning, and was considered as part of the whole experience of loading music onto the player. IE was shoehorned into the role of part of the core windows experience, something that it was not originally designed for. It was specifically done to eliminate the possibility of using another browser, not because using it would enhance the experience.

    3) Windows is an operating system, designed to run programs. The ipod is an mp3 player, designed to play music. There's no expectation of being able to run whatever you want - especially because you're connecting to a piece of proprietary hardware. The IE debacle was a big deal because windows was actively preventing you from running a program (whatever other browser you wanted). It actively went against the purpose of an OS. An applicable comparison would be if the iPod only played songs bought in the iTunes store. (I realize that the reverse (inverse?) of this is true, but there's external reasons for that, and is a whole other debate)

    It would be one thing if there were an actual competitor in the 'mp3 player music loading' market - but there's not. Without that, your whole comparison crumbles to pieces.

    SageinaRage on
  • ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    There's only two goddamn networks the iphone can be used on in America. I do not see what the big fucking deal is. Your choices are ATT or TMobile. TMobile's network is much worse than ATT's so I don't see why people are getting all whiny about not getting to unlock their phone.

    I really don't get why people actually thought that unlocking their iphone wouldn't void their warranty. Why are retarded people purchasing such expensive gadgets?

    Shogun on
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Shogun wrote: »
    I really don't get why people actually thought that unlocking their iphone wouldn't void their warranty.

    Because it doesn't for any other phone on the market?

    EDIT: Admittedly, no other phone manufacturer seems to make it as ridiculously difficult as Apple has.

    japan on
  • ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    japan wrote: »
    Shogun wrote: »
    I really don't get why people actually thought that unlocking their iphone wouldn't void their warranty.

    Because it doesn't for any other phone on the market?

    EDIT: Admittedly, no other phone manufacturer seems to make it as ridiculously difficult as Apple has.

    With all due respect I can't classify the iphone as another phone in the cell phone market. Granted it is a phone but that feature is almost secondary. I consider it more of a mobile device. I'd say I spend equal time listening to the ipod, talking on the phone, and using the data connection. If you tamper with the shit they're not going to fix it for you. Its like any other piece of technology. TV, PS3, Xbox, or anything else. If you tamper with the shit you void the warranty. I think Apple is absolutely in the right. They promised AT&T 5 years of network exclusiveness. I guess I feel bad for people who's shit got bricked but you played in the rain and got wet. Like I said earlier there is virtually no point in unlocking the device. If there was some sweetass GSM network that toppled ATT I'd be all for it, but there isn't. I'm interested in 3rd party apps, but not until later.

    Also I'm taking the plunge and upgrading my firmware. Wish me luck.

    Shogun on
  • VyerVyer Registered User
    edited September 2007
    I'm more and more amused at Evander's constant rants on Apple business practices and impact considering his usual approach to Game Store topics. Funny.

    And as a relatively new owner of anything Apple at all, I'm coming to the realization that the fanboys who engage in the Apple hate crap might actually be worse than what I'm used to in the video game world. O_o

    Vyer on
    Vyer.jpg
  • ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I return with a fully updated iphone. I wish I had some wifi nearby to check out this itunes store thing. Although I don't use iTunes, but I am incredibly excited about Amazon's new DRM free mp3 service. Anyway, my phone is not bricked. Update was pretty large for a phone, 152MB.

    Still no landscape mode for text messaging. :x

    Shogun on
  • ufoufo Registered User
    edited September 2007
    forget landscape mode for text messaging just give us ichat!

    ufo on
  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Vyer wrote: »
    I'm more and more amused at Evander's constant rants on Apple business practices and impact considering his usual approach to Game Store topics. Funny.

    And as a relatively new owner of anything Apple at all, I'm coming to the realization that the fanboys who engage in the Apple hate crap might actually be worse than what I'm used to in the video game world. O_o

    Fanboy raving is cool and all, but I think just about any fanboy bitch-fests are irritating. Especially ones surrounding OSes, hardware, and EULAS.

    Except hating on Blizzard, which is cool.

    Morskittar on
    snm_sig.jpg
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    1) You know iTunes is required when you buy it. If I remember correctly, it says on the box or somewhere obvious that it requires iTunes. Windows did not make that clear when bundling ie - it was a stealth maneuver.
    Bullshit. I have a Windows 98 retail box in front of me that clearly says "Microsoft Internet Explorer" on the front, right underneath "Windows 98". My iPod box, however, has a miniscule sticker on the bottom that simply informs you that iTunes is included. Either way, the comparison is moot, because Win98 users could easily acquire and use a third-party browser, just as iPod users can easily get Winamp.

    Azio on
  • DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    It'll only work with one specific piece of software, and only in one specfic way. There's no scope to use different software, or to switch devices while using the same software. If I was to purchase music using the iTunes/iPod solution, it means i'm then stuck with that solution, or sacrifice the music I spent money on (tedious burning/ripping workarounds notwithstanding).

    Thats an incredible old argument which has been thrown around for ages. Even with Apple latest screwup - the build in CRC check of the database - you can still use other programs to fill the iPod. Programers are adapting to the recent changes and are rewriting their applications accordingly. If you purchase/download your music with the Zune pass you are most likley also stuck with the Zune too, if you want the "DRMed" music on the go. Secondly no one is forcing you to purchase your music over iTunes.

    Concerning the lockdown of the iphone. I already knew that it would turn out to be such bullshit. Its even worse in Europe where the communication market is even more fragmented than in the US. I don't believe there will be huge queues outside the T-Com stores (T-Point, whatever they are called currently - German Telekom will sell iPhone in this country), just for the (more expensive - of course) iPhone and I bet, an even more expensive communication / data plan. Mobile phones and communication plans for me are like dropping your pants willingly to get assraped by the phone industry. I am an incredible gadget whore, but to the surprise of other people I never owned a mobile phone.

    - mobile phones are often stuck in the stone age of bad UI desing
    - most "smart phones" use Windows mobile. I rather choke to death than using Windows on any portable (Yes I have used the latest version of Windows mobile before and I wasn't pleased) Maybe I have to check out Blackberrys and see if this is an alternative.
    - If there is a phone I want, then it cuppled with a dataplan I don't want or which will bind me for at least two years. Even then then, other portable devices can do much more for the same price. God forbid, if you want to use your phone for something else than taking calls.

    The Treo seems to be the perfect choise, but the latest modes have serious quality problems. Currently the PalmOS has no future road I am probably better of in continuing using my old Palm device for my PIM needs.

    It seems to me that the device which combines everything I want on the go will never come. So, I have to stick to my gadget bag and hope not to get mugged ;) (PSP, iPod, Zodiac, DS)

    Addition:

    I hoped that the iPhone would at least inspire the Phone makers to create better UIs. But Apple's phone isn't excactly a "average consumer" device - and its currently on ot own pedestal. So phone makers most likley will continue using a crappy OS or just copy the look of the iPhone "frontend" and call it a day. (And the network provider will continue to sell that crap to ignorant customers)

    Dratatoo on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    If you want a good cell phone UI, just look at Sony Ericsson, because they are top notch.

    deadonthestreet on
  • FreakNRageFreakNRage Registered User
    edited September 2007
    My 2 cents:

    First let me establish that I hate Apple as a company. I find their products to be extermly overpriced and personally believe that they do not provide much value for the money you pay for them. I especially dislike the advertising campaign they had for their computers that basically said "You are too stupid to use a PC so buy an IMac we make them for idiots like you." I will note though that it was successful advertising campaign for them because most people were to stupid to realize their stupidity was being marketed too. I really hate their
    fake hipster image "Buy apple products because they're cool. Why because we say so." I can't stand how they pat themselves on the back about their lack of viruses which has nothing to do with anything they have done other then to have a pathetic share of the market. Congrats guys you haven't produced enough computers to be worth writing viruses for, good job. Hell there was even a girl I could have dated that I choose not to mainly because she was an apple nuthugger which I couldn't stand. I can go on and on, I have never purchased anything from this company, probably never will, tell everyone I know not too, and make fun of people I know that have.

    With all that being said though, I see nothing wrong with anything they have intended in the two main things discussed in this thread, the iphone and the ipod.

    The iphone:
    Very few people unlock their phones. Probably something like one in a thousand. While people have the expectation from previous competitors in this market that they can do so if they choose too, guess what Apple told you with theirs you were not allowed to so their should have been no expectation with the iphone that you would be able to do this. They bricked your expensive phone, guess what they even told you that they would and you decided to ignore them so tough luck. Keep in mind you know as well as I do that you were breaking your license agreement so apple didn't have to warn you about anything but they were nice enough to do so and you ignored them. I have never even considered buying an iphone or any cell phone produced by apple so I don't know much about the phone itself but apple took enough effort to make all this clear that even someone like me know that your network choices were restricted. You know if they wanted to be real dicks they could have just put something in the update to report to them everyone that had unlocked their phones and sued them all. All they did was protect their interests with concern to the iphone in the least vengeful way they could.

    I do feel bad for the legitimate users who have been reporting issues with memory wipes and such. That's pretty unacceptable, that kind of crap shouldn't happen.

    I do not feel bad for people that paid a higher price. If you weren't aware that there are price drops over time, thats not apple's fault. I will admit though that this is a kind of fast price drop which is probably why they are offering to give you a $100 dollar credit and as much as people claim that credit costs them nothing it does.

    The ipod: Mainly based on Evander's comments.
    They may not be as bad now as when I researched mp3 players a couple years back and bought an iriver but back then they were overpriced pieces of crap with no features. They're the only ones that market themselves well but to me it still doesn't explain their popularity. I could see it if most stores only carried ipod's with next to no other competitors, but thats not the case and the competitors products are often superior, cheaper or in some cases both. I personally know very few people that have bought an ipod as most of the people I know will spend 5 minutes researching things like this but I see them everywhere.

    To claim though that they are hurting the mp3 market by being a monopoly is redicolous.

    They stagnant the market? Guess what, people will pay for features they want so if a competitor brings out a feature they want they will buy that product instead of an ipod which lacks the feature. Obviously competitors aren't bringing out features that are in enough demand, as those features are only becoming wanted as people get used to them after ipod implements them.

    They are holding the market back in terms of price? Yeah ipod's are expensive, guess what there are competitors that will get the job done that aren't. When I was a kid people would pay over $100 for a pair of Nike shoes when they could easily pay $40 or less for something just as good or better, Nike wasn't holding the marke tback in terms of price, people were just retarded and willing to pay more money for the name, same issue here. If people choose to pay more money for a product then the alternatives based on brand name that is their choice and it does not hurt the market when there are abundent cheaper alternatives. If someone wants a mp3player but can't afford an ipod its not like they have to go without a mp3 player. I don't think you have thought this through as you claim it to be monopolistic, which is different then a monopoly. If ipod lowered their prices then it would be monopolistic. If they lowered their prices they would completely destroy the small market share their competitors already have and make it impossible for others to enter the market, which in most countries is generally illegal. So I don't know what you are looking for here, cheaper prices already exist with the competitors, do you want those competitors to completely disappear so that only the ipod which you hate is the only option for mp3players?

    Apple basically provides poor product value for the cost of their products. They however have amazing marketing/advertising campaigns which is how they survive or even thrive in some markets. Its honestly the thing that they are best at and its not their fault that their competitors obviously suck at it. If consumers are uninformed of the great alternatives out there, guess what its not apple's fault its the competitors fault. You haven't outright said it but your comments are leading to the conclusion that apple should be required to inform the market of these alternatives instead of the market being responsible for informing itself.

    ipod commercial "Hey buy an ipod, but before you do how about we advertise all the better cheaper alternatives because you're a lazy idiot that can't be bothered to do it yourself or be responsible for your own purchases." Yeah not going to happen.

    FreakNRage on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Apple when Intel chips were announced:

    "There's no way you're going to get Windows to run on this"

    72 hours later

    "Shit"



    Apple when iPhone is released

    "There's no way you're going to get this to run on anything other than AT&T"

    72 hours later

    "OK, seriously. Guys. Just don't. I mean. Fuck."

    Jasconius on
  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Apple when Intel chips were announced:

    "There's no way you're going to get Windows to run on this"

    Something like 3 weeks later

    "Shit"

    Well, I guess we can give them our own internal boot camp stuff now

    Fixed

    ronzo on
  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Azio wrote: »
    1) You know iTunes is required when you buy it. If I remember correctly, it says on the box or somewhere obvious that it requires iTunes. Windows did not make that clear when bundling ie - it was a stealth maneuver.
    Bullshit. I have a Windows 98 retail box in front of me that clearly says "Microsoft Internet Explorer" on the front, right underneath "Windows 98". My iPod box, however, has a miniscule sticker on the bottom that simply informs you that iTunes is included. Either way, the comparison is moot, because Win98 users could easily acquire and use a third-party browser, just as iPod users can easily get Winamp.

    No. While technically you could use another browser, you had to work around the os to get it to work, and windows tried to hide it from you. This is why it was such a big deal, and led to an antitrust suit.

    I don't still have my ipod box any more, but I'm quite sure that it says, in some piece of documentation, that it requires iTunes. This is still more than Microsoft gave with windows and IE.

    SageinaRage on
  • DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    have done other then to have a pathetic share of the market.

    Oh, not that again - everytime somebody brings up this point a kitten dies somewhere. There is a certain truth to that, I grant you that.

    But the internal structure of the OS is also the base of security. Windows for example is a clusterfuck of code which is nearly over a decade old and which is revised every now and then. Fixing underlying base structure is like pumping water out of a sinking ship. As long as MS can make money with the good ol' NT they will continue to do so - as long as this base is used for future Windows operating systems it remains unsecure.

    I won't explain the differences between a *nix system and the MS operating system, the history of both or anything like that in long-winded sentences. This is not the scope of this thread. Better leave it at that.

    edit:

    Concerning iPod have no features claim:

    What else do you want? Its a music player. Please do not say support format XY which nobody uses. The "Does it play *.ogg?" has been beaten to death. Granted its not the cheapest one and it has its share of problems. Before anyone brings up the "It has no radio features." point, I better stop you there. Well then, why do you want a high capacity player if you are listening to the "top40" anyways? There are devices which can do this for less money.

    Dratatoo on
  • VyerVyer Registered User
    edited September 2007
    FreakNRage wrote: »

    First let me establish that I hate Apple as a company. I find their products to be extermly overpriced and personally believe that they do not provide much value for the money you pay for them. I especially dislike the advertising campaign they had for their computers that basically said "You are too stupid to use a PC so buy an IMac we make them for idiots like you." I will note though that it was successful advertising campaign for them because most people were to stupid to realize their stupidity was being marketed too. I really hate their
    fake hipster image "Buy apple products because they're cool. Why because we say so." I can't stand how they pat themselves on the back about their lack of viruses which has nothing to do with anything they have done other then to have a pathetic share of the market. Congrats guys you haven't produced enough computers to be worth writing viruses for, good job. Hell there was even a girl I could have dated that I choose not to mainly because she was an apple nuthugger which I couldn't stand. I can go on and on, I have never purchased anything from this company, probably never will, tell everyone I know not too, and make fun of people I know that have.
    .

    You realize you made most of this up in your own head, right?

    Vyer on
    Vyer.jpg
  • ZackSchillingZackSchilling Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Vyer wrote: »
    FreakNRage wrote: »

    First let me establish that I hate Apple as a company. I find their products to be extermly overpriced and personally believe that they do not provide much value for the money you pay for them. I especially dislike the advertising campaign they had for their computers that basically said "You are too stupid to use a PC so buy an IMac we make them for idiots like you." I will note though that it was successful advertising campaign for them because most people were to stupid to realize their stupidity was being marketed too. I really hate their
    fake hipster image "Buy apple products because they're cool. Why because we say so." I can't stand how they pat themselves on the back about their lack of viruses which has nothing to do with anything they have done other then to have a pathetic share of the market. Congrats guys you haven't produced enough computers to be worth writing viruses for, good job. Hell there was even a girl I could have dated that I choose not to mainly because she was an apple nuthugger which I couldn't stand. I can go on and on, I have never purchased anything from this company, probably never will, tell everyone I know not too, and make fun of people I know that have.

    You realize you made most of this up in your own head, right?

    It's like some sort or retarded conglomerate of feelings he gets from Apple ads, things people say on message boards, and misplaced nerd rage. Lots and lots of misplaced nerd rage.


    "Hell there was even a girl I could have dated that I choose not to mainly because she was an apple nuthugger which I couldn't stand. I can go on and on, I have never purchased anything from this company, probably never will, tell everyone I know not too, and make fun of people I know that have."

    Not to launch directly into ad hominem attacks, but... ok, to do exactly that: The bolded statements make you sound like a complete dickish, petty loser. Who does things like this?

    I enjoy using my Mac. I also have a PC. Sometimes they talk and hilarious antics ensue. If I ever met someone evangelical about Microsoft, I would probably not do anything more than take a playful potshot here and there. If this person happened to be a hot girl who wanted me, I wouldn't turn her down.

    ZackSchilling on
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  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I would turn her down.

    Onto her stomach.

    Organichu on
  • GihgehlsGihgehls Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    FreakNRage wrote: »
    guess what guess what Guess what guess what

    Gihgehls on
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  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Just a note - Phone companies are not all sweetness and light, for example Vodafone (a company I've used/worked with) has a long history of fucking with GSM phones, restricting features, locking down things that could possibly give the user stuff for free - they call this Vodafone Live!

    I found that so annoying that as soon as I got to a country where there was more than Voda for GSM I swapped networks and now my phone has no network branding except for the startup when it locks onto the signal. Woo

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Indeed. My Telus Nokia 6265i is the one phone in the series that doesn't work with iSync. Worse yet, it comes locked - so you can't use MP3s for ringtones, you can't change the icons on your themes, you can't even change the "soft" key to something you'd like - it's locked to the Telus shop (like I'm buying $3 ringtones. Right.)

    $6 and some software of dubious origin later (I didn't ask, it came with the cable) and I can unlock it. I'll tell you this much though, if Nokia or Telus updated the firmware, I sure as hell wouldn't go applying it willy nilly unless someone had taken the plunge first and told me we were good to go.

    Is the iTunes Wireless Music Store really worth losing all those cool third party apps?

    Threepio on
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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Dratatoo wrote: »
    It'll only work with one specific piece of software, and only in one specfic way. There's no scope to use different software, or to switch devices while using the same software. If I was to purchase music using the iTunes/iPod solution, it means i'm then stuck with that solution, or sacrifice the music I spent money on (tedious burning/ripping workarounds notwithstanding).

    Thats an incredible old argument which has been thrown around for ages. Even with Apple latest screwup - the build in CRC check of the database - you can still use other programs to fill the iPod. Programers are adapting to the recent changes and are rewriting their applications accordingly. If you purchase/download your music with the Zune pass you are most likley also stuck with the Zune too, if you want the "DRMed" music on the go. Secondly no one is forcing you to purchase your music over iTunes.

    While it's true that you can use other software with the iPod, Apple has pretty much made it clear that their intention is to stop people doing that by any means necessary. Given that there are plenty of other players on the market that don't have these drawbacks and are considerably less hassle (and often less money), I find there are few arguments in favour of the iPod. Your mileage may vary.

    Incidentally, most of these arguments also apply to the Zune, as well. It falls into the same category of being more hassle, and more expensive than the competiton, and it's tied to another dodgy music service.

    I do like my online music purchases, so I have no problem with the concept, but I'll stick with emusic.

    I don't think the iPod or the Zune are necessarily bad products, but for me at least, they're poor value. The same applies to the iPhone, because it lacks too many features that are available with other products. I think I'll stop now, though, because this is all getting a bit tangential, and it's becoming pretty clear that what I expect from a phone (or a music player) is not what Apple is trying to provide.

    japan on
  • jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Dratatoo wrote: »
    "It has no radio features." point, I better stop you there. Well then, why do you want a high capacity player if you are listening to the "top40" anyways? There are devices which can do this for less money.

    I listen to a lot of talk and news radio. It is a very relevant feature to me to be able to switch back and forth.

    jonxp on
    Every time you write parallel fifths, Bach kills a kitten.
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  • apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA
    edited October 2007
    Threepio wrote: »
    Indeed. My Telus Nokia 6265i is the one phone in the series that doesn't work with iSync. Worse yet, it comes locked - so you can't use MP3s for ringtones, you can't change the icons on your themes, you can't even change the "soft" key to something you'd like - it's locked to the Telus shop (like I'm buying $3 ringtones. Right.)

    $6 and some software of dubious origin later (I didn't ask, it came with the cable) and I can unlock it. I'll tell you this much though, if Nokia or Telus updated the firmware, I sure as hell wouldn't go applying it willy nilly unless someone had taken the plunge first and told me we were good to go.

    Is the iTunes Wireless Music Store really worth losing all those cool third party apps?


    Hey look someone in this thread is making some god damned sense.

    apotheos on


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  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    According to an unofficial poll by engadget and a member of the iPhone dev team, it may be that people have rushed their judgement on Apple's firmware release. The poll shows that a roughly equal number of people with 100% unmodified phones were bricked as people who did modify their phones, implying a simple bug in the firmware code.

    Which would make me happy about Apple not being malicious(and instead trying to cover their asses early with that press release, hoping to blame issues on mods), and making most of this whining and bitching pointless.

    And here I am, still crippled with indecision about what to buy. Maybe the possible Zune 2 unveiled tomorrow can help.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Septus wrote: »
    According to an unofficial poll by engadget and a member of the iPhone dev team, it may be that people have rushed their judgement on Apple's firmware release. The poll shows that a roughly equal number of people with 100% unmodified phones were bricked as people who did modify their phones, implying a simple bug in the firmware code.

    Which would make me happy about Apple not being malicious(and instead trying to cover their asses early with that press release, hoping to blame issues on mods), and making most of this whining and bitching pointless.

    And here I am, still crippled with indecision about what to buy. Maybe the possible Zune 2 unveiled tomorrow can help.

    Huh? Zune 2 being unveiled? When did this happen?

    Kyougu on
  • Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I am totally unable to decide on whether to keep my iPhone at 1.0.2 and enjoy third party apps, or move to 1.1.1 and get the fixes+features, but lose the apps. Honestly, the only 3rd party app I use is MobileRSS. But I use it a lot.

    Fatty McBeardo on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Huh? Zune 2 being unveiled? When did this happen?

    There's a Microsoft event either Tuesday or Wednesday, and the big hints are that the new Zunes, as well as updated firmware, will be unveiled.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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