Depending on who you think the cabbie is, it was Caine who put Jack up to it. For reasons of his own, no doubt, but I seem to recall that Caine is slightly above the Antedilluvians and not exactly part of the Jyhad. As a result, his scheming might have loosened your leash... provided you didn't decide to tighten it yourself.
Of course, it's very possible that Caine (or whoever) didn't have an interest in you, but an interest in Los Angeles and getting LaCroix out of the picture.
That theory comes up a lot when talking about him in relation to this game. It's just not realistic. Caine doesn't play the Jyhad - he's way above it. The Jyhad is Methuselahs at the oldest, but mainly younger Ancients. An Assamite Methuselah woke up and basically started sorting the clan out right away - broke a longstanding Tremere curse, got his clan in order, started taking charge. Methuselahs are superpowerful, Ancients are powerful, Antediluvians are practically invincible (see: Ravnos single-handedly winning a war against the Cathayans, fighting for days on end and taking a few nukes to the face).
Caine is something else: if he wanted LaCroix dead, he'd do it himself. Caine might not even do it himself, he might just control the blood itself and will LaCroix to death. Why bother playing a game of Jyhad?
One of the main themes of Vampire, and one that's told to you in the game, is that no matter what you do, somewhere an Elder knew you were going to do, pulled the strings and worked out how to profit from it. You ever wonder who told Jack to take an interest?
Well...
Depending on who you think the cabbie is, it was Caine who put Jack up to it. For reasons of his own, no doubt, but I seem to recall that Caine is slightly above the Antedilluvians and not exactly part of the Jyhad. As a result, his scheming might have loosened your leash... provided you didn't decide to tighten it yourself.
Of course, it's very possible that Caine (or whoever) didn't have an interest in you, but an interest in Los Angeles and getting LaCroix out of the picture.
But why would he give a shit about Lacroix? Even if his continued existence would make a difference in the long run (it wouldn't), Strauss or the Que-Jin would've taken care of him eventually anyway.
How about "Nobody escapes the Jyhad. Unless Caine says so."
Pfft, even then. Besides, there's no massively compelling reason to believe that he is Caine. It's slightly cheesy, let's face it. In terms of overall White Wolf canon, he definitely isn't.
Caine is something else: if he wanted LaCroix dead, he'd do it himself. Caine might not even do it himself, he might just control the blood itself and will LaCroix to death. Why bother playing a game of Jyhad?
Well, I know very little about the PnP game - I'm just having fun throwing theories around.
Also, I like the idea that if you can't avoid being manipulated, at least you get to be manipulated by Cain. He, at least, seems to have some affection for his descendants, rather than seeing them as mere tools to further his own power.
Besides, Cain, as far as I can tell, enjoys staying in the background. Strolling into LA and sorting out that entire powderkeg might have drawn unwanted attention.
The whole "Caine is the cabbie" thing is extra silly, and highly unlikely to the point of being effectively impossible. Caine has never shown up as a direct character in any module except Gehenna, and Bloodlines is effectively just a module.
It's a joke. An easter egg. The designers having fun. You weren't even meant to dig out those files.
The cabbie can fill a role that we would like to attribute to Caine... but it takes a lot of Golden Ruling for that to actually happen.
Personally I think he's a Malkavian methuselah of some description, maybe even possessed by Malkav, who goes in for that sort of thing. It would explain why the Malkavian PC completely loses his shit, and explain little eccentricities like driving a cab around and slaughtering a ship full of people to get to a moldy old corpse.
I think Tube's onto something with every post. Caine can do anything, but it's seriously implied he doesn't like other vampires and *really* doesn't like the Jyhad, so it's unlikely he'd want to get involved. If he *did* want to get involved in any way, he can do *anything* he wanted. Ravnos sent his clan insane and they nearly all killed themselves, if Caine wanted he could almost certainly replicate the same thing for *all* vampires
Well, consider that your character, in a matter of days, goes from being a fledgling vampire to taking down very powerful characters, including but not limited to
a Tzimisce elder (who immediately goes for a warform instead of employing any of his disciplines), a master vampire hunter, several Kuei-Jin and their leader in LA, the Sheriff (twice, who also opts for brute force and none of the powers he demonstrated in the tutorial) and a Ventrue elder (indirectly, but you do resist domination at a highly convenient time). And that's excluding the optional bosses, and the werewolf - which, if you kill it, is based on ingenuity and luck rather than your power as a vampire.
The game plays around heavily with the mythos and the power levels and such to make the game more interesting. I wouldn't consider it canon by any stretch of imagination, though I don't think it's hugely out of character for Caine to at least watch what the Kindred are up to, even if he doesn't take enough interest to act.
Edit: I should stress that I say this as someone with virtually no knowledge of the source material prior to playing the game. I thought it introduced the WoD well enough for a complete newcomer to grasp the basics, if not the scope and specifics of it.
Here's some thoughts on the power level of the PC. Firstly, we know he's of fairly low generation, because Andrei comments on it and his sire was of some repute. He's also probably at most one generation removed from LeCroix (he has to be a higher generation for dominate to work, but too high and he wouldn't be able to resist it). This puts him at an advantage compared to most vampires. Bear in mind, most of the Sabbat vampires you fight are shovelheads, and I don't even think Andrei was particularly powerful. The most impressive things the PC does is killing Ming and The Sheriff. These are pretty unrealistic, let's face it. Then again, they're both hard fights, and both enemies make tactical errors by going for war forms (probably as a display of power, or to showboat). The Sheriff also just got unlucky, due to the presence of spotlights.
So yeah, the PC was unreasonably powerful, but not to a completely ridiculous degree. He still couldn't scratch say, Jack, and either Ming or The Sheriff could probably have taken him down if they hadn't been arrogant.
I thougth it was Jack who boarded the dane and killed everyone (he is a pirate after all). If you have already played the game once his first conversation makes a lot more sense if you choose the dialouge about taking down princes in the past and his oppinion of LaCroix.
The Malkavian on the beach also makes a lot of sense.
No one thinks he's really playing the Jyhad but that's actually everything he's doing in town. He doesn't "side" with the anarchs because he has his plan figured out and they would only get dumb ideas. You just happen to be a perfect pawn.
In fact your a *too* perfect pawn. Your sire is an upstanding member of the camarilla and yet breaks a law which she/he knows to be lethal. Why? You also gain power exponentially, liberties or not I think it's pretty obvious that your not an ordinary vampire.
The question is, is the Cabbie really involved and how much of an "accident" were you really?
In my world I thougth the Cabbie could very well be Caine who's back and have decided to trail Jack for a while. He's content with watching you, and I at least thougth he was the guy who was sending the mysterious emails. It's either him or Jack, no one else knows enough and it doesn't seem to be in Jack's character to do so. Although he's probably perfectly capable and he does seem to like you.
Ming, at least, should've known better, considering how quickly the PC turns her whole Chinatown operation inside out. I can buy the Sheriff deciding to do it the hard way, in the vein of "it's been a long time since I've had a worthy opponent, so I'll fight kinda fair to start with". It's stupid, but I can buy that badass warrior types actually think that way.
Still, it is an awfully short time for the PC to become powerful, though it would make some sense if their sire was fairly high up themselves.
In fact your a *too* perfect pawn. Your sire is an upstanding member of the camarilla and yet breaks a law which she/he knows to be lethal. Why? You also gain power exponentially, liberties or not I think it's pretty obvious that your not an ordinary vampire.
[/SPOILER]
No, you're a vampire in a computer game, and as such will win against all odds and grow in power much faster than in a P&P game. It's no more sinister than that.
I think the best way to handle this in Vampire based games (which we'll never see again ) is the way Redemption handled it, by starting in an earlier time period to explain the PC's power level.
Then again, the PC in Redemption was ludicrously powerful.
I borrowed this game off of a friend a few months ago to install and play it.
As you can see on my Xfire Profile, I have played it for all of four hours.
I wanted to play a Tremere, using Thaumaturgy as my primary weapon (basically, a Mage class). However, I did not put nearly enough points into Firearms. Because of this, at the Warehouse my powers were basically useless against the Hordes of vampires I ended up facing.
The only decent character class choices are full-blown melee or full-blown firearms. Trying to make any other sort of mix just ends in disaster because the stats system is so goddamned unforgiving.
I hope that if they ever make another one of these games it allows for some more variety. ):<
Even if you only have two dots of thaumaturgy you can still clean this place up easily. Use Purge and then cut everyone to pieces while they vomit. They can't defend themselves. When you get low on blood or health, feed of someone.
If you can't tell the difference between humans and vampires, use Auspex. Vampires have this kind of purple-black haze around them.
I think the best way to handle this in Vampire based games (which we'll never see again ) is the way Redemption handled it, by starting in an earlier time period to explain the PC's power level.
Then again, the PC in Redemption was ludicrously powerful.
I guess the chance of seeing a single player New World of Darkness game is pretty slim as well, since White Wolf's merger with CCP. MMORPG ahoy, unfortunatly.
EDIT: Well, I'll be damned! I just found my old Redemption discs, complete with manual and big box. Guess I'll install it to tide me over until Mass Effect drops into my mail slot tomorrow.
Tube: isn't the PC 8th Gen., based on his blood pool?
There's also the idea (that's not really used in the PnP version to explain his quick development) that if you do a lot of stuff, you get more experienced at skills faster. Most vampires take it easy because they've got a long time to improve themselves, so they don't go charging into burning mansions and stuff, but the PC does end up in crazy situations so improves much faster
Activision might hold the rights to VtM, but I doubt White Wolf would let another game be made, they're trying to stick with VtR totally
So how powerful is Beckett supposed to be? I imagine very much so, since he's what, like 300 years old? But then again more of a scholar and historian then a warrior, but still.
Kitten raises a good point about your sire, it seems odd that she'd Embrace you at all considering the risk. And immediate death after breaking the rules. I forget - was LaCroix overreacting by killing the sire? Doesn't that usually result in the death of the childe?
Perhaps Jack was manipulating things before you were even Embraced... unless it was someone else
The Prince is well within their rights to execute both sire and childe in such a case. Re: why the sire embraced the PC anyway, we don't know anything about their prior relationship. Maybe they were in love, a common theme in Vampire. Maybe she thought she'd get away with it. It was pretty obvious the sire was set up either way, almost certainly by lacroix. The only reason that the PC is spared is because Nines spoke up, and the Anarchs have huge political sway in LA (the Camarilla aren't really in charge at all).
So how powerful is Beckett supposed to be? I imagine very much so, since he's what, like 300 years old? But then again more of a scholar and historian then a warrior, but still.
Becket is a double hard bastard for a fairly standard vampire. He's not a world beater, but he's 7th gen and has (I think) maxed fortitude and definitely maxed protean. Plus, he gets out and does stuff. That makes all the difference.
Gangrel have some extra dialogue with Becket and a unique discipline. Brujah are just ultra combat monsters. Go with gangrel. Oh, and boost research to get extra persuasion first, to use skill books.
The Prince is well within their rights to execute both sire and childe in such a case. Re: why the sire embraced the PC anyway, we don't know anything about their prior relationship. Maybe they were in love, a common theme in Vampire. Maybe she thought she'd get away with it. It was pretty obvious the sire was set up either way, almost certainly by lacroix. The only reason that the PC is spared is because Nines spoke up, and the Anarchs have huge political sway in LA (the Camarilla aren't really in charge at all).
So how powerful is Beckett supposed to be? I imagine very much so, since he's what, like 300 years old? But then again more of a scholar and historian then a warrior, but still.
Becket is a double hard bastard for a fairly standard vampire. He's not a world beater, but he's 7th gen and has (I think) maxed fortitude and definitely maxed protean. Plus, he gets out and does stuff. That makes all the difference.
Could be simple manipulation - LaCroix could simply tell the sire s/he has permission, and not tell anyone else. It's not like they have records.
That makes perfect sense. The big thing that makes it an obvious setup is the fact that the Sheriff immediately knew what had happened and brought the sire in. I'm pretty sure there's some dialogue in the game that indicates that tensions between LaCroix and the sire were high, something like "like sire, like childe" when he's in a piss with you
There were two more metaplot-oriented endings, both have the Masquerade being breached (the PCs fight Tzimisce as a huge blob of flesh in the New York sewers, the fight spills onto the street and New Yorkers catch the battle on video), and one has a reasonably plausable situation where the vampires demand rights and their own nation in the land of Nod or Enoch or something and then an apocalyptic war starts, and the other is Crucible of God, which is so over the top it's hilarious: The Antedeluvians all take turns trying to destroy the world by blotting out the sun (Lasombra) or infecting every living thing with Vicissitude (Tzimisce) or cruising around in the belly of a giant lizard wreaking havoc with an army of ghouled monsters (Nosferatu). Saulot plays a big role in both of these scenarios.
Although I completely agree with your summaries of those two scenarios, I have to disagree over which one is superior for the same reasons that you just gave. Nightshade (the Masquerade-breaking metaplot scenario) was stupid because it represented the worst tendencies of metaplot writ large: the PCs get to influence one mandatory event by "killing" Tzimisce, then get to follow the signature characters (and, later, the Antediluvians) around the world, and have the privilege of watching the plot happen without having the ability to effect it in any meaningful way. (Not that the PCs have nothing to do at all, but what they do is irrelevant to the plotline as written. You can commit diablerie on that infamous ancient vampire... but he's just lost all of his power, so it won't do you any good anyways!)
Oh! Another reason that Nightshade is laaaame: that whole stupid plotline with Li'l Saulot, who is the greatest affront to God ever - not because he's a vampire, but because he's a clone. They ended Vampire with a Power of Love ending that was executed by a fucking clone. A CLONE, FOR FUCK'S SAKE, IN VAMPIRE THE FUCKING MASQUERADE. That actually beats the "space aliens steal everyone's magic" scenario in Mage: Ascension for the title of "most thematically inappropriate Time of Judgment scenario".
The Crucible of God, on the other hand, I liked precisely because you can't have a scenario directly involving the Antediluvians as described in VtM without also having ridiculous over-the-top craziness. "The Antediluvians appear, but decide not to use their Level 10 Disciplines" would be a bullshit cop-out of the highest order. Plus, it confirms my long-standing characterization of Tremere as the ultimate powergamer: he uses a Level 10 Thaumaturgy ritual to boost his Level 10 Dominate, because Level 10 Disciplines just aren't powerful enough. And, like all powergamers, he ultimately gets beaten like a red-headed schoolgirl by somebody smarter, more experienced, and more foresightful than him.
Granted, all three non-Wormwood scenarios in Gehenna are very flawed (the Lilith one is almost entirely terrible, and anyone who runs it as is should feel ashamed). It would have been nice to see a real Camarilla/Sabbat/Anarchs Jyhad-turned-Gehenna scenario, rather than a pair of scenarios that effectively dismantled all of the sects by throwing Anterdiluvians at them. Likewise, the Antediluvian stuff could have been consolidated into one scenario that built up from the "Antediluvians conquer the world from behind the scenes" stuff at the start of Nightshade to the "Antediluvians threaten all life on Earth" stuff at the end on Crucible.
Although I completely agree with your summaries of those two scenarios, I have to disagree over which one is superior for the same reasons that you just gave. Nightshade (the Masquerade-breaking metaplot scenario) was stupid because it represented the worst tendencies of metaplot writ large: the PCs get to influence one mandatory event by "killing" Tzimisce, then get to follow the signature characters (and, later, the Antediluvians) around the world, and have the privilege of watching the plot happen without having the ability to effect it in any meaningful way. (Not that the PCs have nothing to do at all, but what they do is irrelevant to the plotline as written. You can commit diablerie on that infamous ancient vampire... but he's just lost all of his power, so it won't do you any good anyways!)
Ah, I think you read me wrong. I really like Crucible of God, and barely got through Nightshade. I mean, CoG is ridiculous and over the top like we both said, but at least it's interesting. Nightshade is kinda dull, and for a Gehenna plot, that's unforgivable.
Crucible also gets points for following the labrynthine body swapping plotline they had Saulot, Tremere, and Goratrix on to its logical (!) conclusion.
Granted, all three non-Wormwood scenarios in Gehenna are very flawed (the Lilith one is almost entirely terrible, and anyone who runs it as is should feel ashamed). It would have been nice to see a real Camarilla/Sabbat/Anarchs Jyhad-turned-Gehenna scenario, rather than a pair of scenarios that effectively dismantled all of the sects by throwing Anterdiluvians at them. Likewise, the Antediluvian stuff could have been consolidated into one scenario that built up from the "Antediluvians conquer the world from behind the scenes" stuff at the start of Nightshade to the "Antediluvians threaten all life on Earth" stuff at the end on Crucible.
The Lilith one is designed to appeal to a certain sort of player, the ones that think Revelations of the Dark Mother is canonical fact. It's total fanservice.
Personally, I like going with whatever Gehenna plot we cook up while playing Vampire: The Eternal Struggle. "Okay, the Messengers make all Imbued hunters superpowerful while the Withering AND Wormwood make vampires waste away, and the sun goes out..."
I never felt constrained to think of my character as growing very fast. I mean, it doesn't have to have all taken place in a week, or a month. There isn't any real indication as to the time frame in most of the game (other than a few "do this before mornings"'s from Lacroix).
But yeah, certainly a fairly powerful vampire. I only played the PnP for a little while (City Gangrel) but I know my character in the PC game does things that would have left Maxwell (PnP character) dead or close to it.
One thing all the Gehenna stories had going for them was they helped explained the lore. They did a good job of revealing more about the Antediluvians, like how Troile never even was an Antediluvian and the True Brujah are hated by Brujah (the Ante) even more than the rest of his clan
I wasn't too happy with the way they dealt with Saulot, though. The way he'd been portrayed otherwise indicated the Salubri thought he was a damn saint but that he was nowhere near as nice as he was supposed to be. Stuff about him probably creating the Baali, for example, and the implication he planned and executed the destruction of his own clan because he wasn't happy with the way they turned out. That's the kind of Saulot I wanted to see.
Actually, he *did* take over Tremere and orchestrate the destruction and demonization of the Salubri, didn't he?
One thing all the Gehenna stories had going for them was they helped explained the lore. They did a good job of revealing more about the Antediluvians, like how Troile never even was an Antediluvian and the True Brujah are hated by Brujah (the Ante) even more than the rest of his clan
That's the only part of the Lilith scenario that really felt right to me.
I wasn't too happy with the way they dealt with Saulot, though. The way he'd been portrayed otherwise indicated the Salubri thought he was a damn saint but that he was nowhere near as nice as he was supposed to be. Stuff about him probably creating the Baali, for example, and the implication he planned and executed the destruction of his own clan because he wasn't happy with the way they turned out. That's the kind of Saulot I wanted to see.
Yeah, it's a shame; he was one of the few Antediluvians with any established sense of subtlety or personality, so of course they ignored all of that for his appearances. Although, IIRC, Saulot only took over Tremere's body at some point in the last few years of the V:tM timeline, and probably wasn't involved in his clan's destruction at all. The only big fakeout with Tremere that I can remember was his 'betrayal' by Goratrix, which they'd both actually planned out in advance for reasons that escape me.
So I've played through this completely once as Malkavian and then about halfway through as Tremere. I never found different clothes but I distinctly remember them from the previews.
At Comic Con a couple years ago they had some Alienware computers running an early build of the game. I stood behind and watched the rep play the game for about 5 minutes. The Malkavian he had was wearing a long coat and a top hat. This was before Half-Life 2 got delayed the first time, which led to this game being held back for no other reason than that Half-Life 2 wasn't done. Is that coat and top hat in the final game?
Well yeah it should've been obvious, but I had told her to 'change [her] skin' a few times, so she was wearing some slutty clothes last time I talked to her. Aww
Meatflower: Yeah it's in, you buy it from tseng's in chinatown as a malk.
That's the only part of the Lilith scenario that really felt right to me.
The whole concept of the scenario seemed off. Vampire's never really been about Caine or Lilith, they were gone and never coming back. It was always "this is the story of how vampires exist, but the characters are gone for good, the worst you have to worry about is the Antediluvians"
Yeah, it's a shame; he was one of the few Antediluvians with any established sense of subtlety or personality, so of course they ignored all of that for his appearances. Although, IIRC, Saulot only took over Tremere's body at some point in the last few years of the V:tM timeline, and probably wasn't involved in his clan's destruction at all. The only big fakeout with Tremere that I can remember was his 'betrayal' by Goratrix, which they'd both actually planned out in advance for reasons that escape me.
Where'd I get the stuff about Saulot killing his own clan, then? I could've sworn that was the suggestion I read somewhere. Something like he was unhappy with the way the Salubri had turned out (and he was always after perfection and Golconda and stuff), so he let Tremere know where he was, Tremere tried to diablerize him but Saulot's soul inhabited Tremere's body and influenced the Tremere clan to wipe out his "failed" clan.
Which really fits with the whole Salubri thing: the only "nice" vampires in the game, they were hunted by the Tremere, abandoned by the Camarilla, feared by their former friends, and to top it off that Saulot bloke you love so much hates you and caused all your suffering. Oh, and you're not that nice after all, you're god damn vampires
On the Malkavian armour: if it's the last armour you get, Heather (the ghoul) might give you some if you keep her around and treat her right. She gives cash and armour, but I think she cops it if you keep her around for the armour
Posts
That theory comes up a lot when talking about him in relation to this game. It's just not realistic. Caine doesn't play the Jyhad - he's way above it. The Jyhad is Methuselahs at the oldest, but mainly younger Ancients. An Assamite Methuselah woke up and basically started sorting the clan out right away - broke a longstanding Tremere curse, got his clan in order, started taking charge. Methuselahs are superpowerful, Ancients are powerful, Antediluvians are practically invincible (see: Ravnos single-handedly winning a war against the Cathayans, fighting for days on end and taking a few nukes to the face).
Caine is something else: if he wanted LaCroix dead, he'd do it himself. Caine might not even do it himself, he might just control the blood itself and will LaCroix to death. Why bother playing a game of Jyhad?
Pfft, even then. Besides, there's no massively compelling reason to believe that he is Caine. It's slightly cheesy, let's face it. In terms of overall White Wolf canon, he definitely isn't.
Besides, Cain, as far as I can tell, enjoys staying in the background. Strolling into LA and sorting out that entire powderkeg might have drawn unwanted attention.
It's a joke. An easter egg. The designers having fun. You weren't even meant to dig out those files.
The cabbie can fill a role that we would like to attribute to Caine... but it takes a lot of Golden Ruling for that to actually happen.
The game plays around heavily with the mythos and the power levels and such to make the game more interesting. I wouldn't consider it canon by any stretch of imagination, though I don't think it's hugely out of character for Caine to at least watch what the Kindred are up to, even if he doesn't take enough interest to act.
Edit: I should stress that I say this as someone with virtually no knowledge of the source material prior to playing the game. I thought it introduced the WoD well enough for a complete newcomer to grasp the basics, if not the scope and specifics of it.
So yeah, the PC was unreasonably powerful, but not to a completely ridiculous degree. He still couldn't scratch say, Jack, and either Ming or The Sheriff could probably have taken him down if they hadn't been arrogant.
I thougth it was Jack who boarded the dane and killed everyone (he is a pirate after all). If you have already played the game once his first conversation makes a lot more sense if you choose the dialouge about taking down princes in the past and his oppinion of LaCroix.
The Malkavian on the beach also makes a lot of sense.
No one thinks he's really playing the Jyhad but that's actually everything he's doing in town. He doesn't "side" with the anarchs because he has his plan figured out and they would only get dumb ideas. You just happen to be a perfect pawn.
In fact your a *too* perfect pawn. Your sire is an upstanding member of the camarilla and yet breaks a law which she/he knows to be lethal. Why? You also gain power exponentially, liberties or not I think it's pretty obvious that your not an ordinary vampire.
The question is, is the Cabbie really involved and how much of an "accident" were you really?
In my world I thougth the Cabbie could very well be Caine who's back and have decided to trail Jack for a while. He's content with watching you, and I at least thougth he was the guy who was sending the mysterious emails. It's either him or Jack, no one else knows enough and it doesn't seem to be in Jack's character to do so. Although he's probably perfectly capable and he does seem to like you.
Still, it is an awfully short time for the PC to become powerful, though it would make some sense if their sire was fairly high up themselves.
No, you're a vampire in a computer game, and as such will win against all odds and grow in power much faster than in a P&P game. It's no more sinister than that.
Then again, the PC in Redemption was ludicrously powerful.
Even if you only have two dots of thaumaturgy you can still clean this place up easily. Use Purge and then cut everyone to pieces while they vomit. They can't defend themselves. When you get low on blood or health, feed of someone.
If you can't tell the difference between humans and vampires, use Auspex. Vampires have this kind of purple-black haze around them.
EDIT: Well, I'll be damned! I just found my old Redemption discs, complete with manual and big box. Guess I'll install it to tide me over until Mass Effect drops into my mail slot tomorrow.
EDIT: Oh, and fuck the A.I for your cotiere, those fuckers caused my death more times than the enemy managed.
There's also the idea (that's not really used in the PnP version to explain his quick development) that if you do a lot of stuff, you get more experienced at skills faster. Most vampires take it easy because they've got a long time to improve themselves, so they don't go charging into burning mansions and stuff, but the PC does end up in crazy situations so improves much faster
Activision might hold the rights to VtM, but I doubt White Wolf would let another game be made, they're trying to stick with VtR totally
Perhaps Jack was manipulating things before you were even Embraced... unless it was someone else
Becket is a double hard bastard for a fairly standard vampire. He's not a world beater, but he's 7th gen and has (I think) maxed fortitude and definitely maxed protean. Plus, he gets out and does stuff. That makes all the difference.
Could be simple manipulation - LaCroix could simply tell the sire s/he has permission, and not tell anyone else. It's not like they have records.
Oh! Another reason that Nightshade is laaaame: that whole stupid plotline with Li'l Saulot, who is the greatest affront to God ever - not because he's a vampire, but because he's a clone. They ended Vampire with a Power of Love ending that was executed by a fucking clone. A CLONE, FOR FUCK'S SAKE, IN VAMPIRE THE FUCKING MASQUERADE. That actually beats the "space aliens steal everyone's magic" scenario in Mage: Ascension for the title of "most thematically inappropriate Time of Judgment scenario".
The Crucible of God, on the other hand, I liked precisely because you can't have a scenario directly involving the Antediluvians as described in VtM without also having ridiculous over-the-top craziness. "The Antediluvians appear, but decide not to use their Level 10 Disciplines" would be a bullshit cop-out of the highest order. Plus, it confirms my long-standing characterization of Tremere as the ultimate powergamer: he uses a Level 10 Thaumaturgy ritual to boost his Level 10 Dominate, because Level 10 Disciplines just aren't powerful enough. And, like all powergamers, he ultimately gets beaten like a red-headed schoolgirl by somebody smarter, more experienced, and more foresightful than him.
Granted, all three non-Wormwood scenarios in Gehenna are very flawed (the Lilith one is almost entirely terrible, and anyone who runs it as is should feel ashamed). It would have been nice to see a real Camarilla/Sabbat/Anarchs Jyhad-turned-Gehenna scenario, rather than a pair of scenarios that effectively dismantled all of the sects by throwing Anterdiluvians at them. Likewise, the Antediluvian stuff could have been consolidated into one scenario that built up from the "Antediluvians conquer the world from behind the scenes" stuff at the start of Nightshade to the "Antediluvians threaten all life on Earth" stuff at the end on Crucible.
Ah, I think you read me wrong. I really like Crucible of God, and barely got through Nightshade. I mean, CoG is ridiculous and over the top like we both said, but at least it's interesting. Nightshade is kinda dull, and for a Gehenna plot, that's unforgivable.
Crucible also gets points for following the labrynthine body swapping plotline they had Saulot, Tremere, and Goratrix on to its logical (!) conclusion.
The Lilith one is designed to appeal to a certain sort of player, the ones that think Revelations of the Dark Mother is canonical fact. It's total fanservice.
Personally, I like going with whatever Gehenna plot we cook up while playing Vampire: The Eternal Struggle. "Okay, the Messengers make all Imbued hunters superpowerful while the Withering AND Wormwood make vampires waste away, and the sun goes out..."
But yeah, certainly a fairly powerful vampire. I only played the PnP for a little while (City Gangrel) but I know my character in the PC game does things that would have left Maxwell (PnP character) dead or close to it.
I wasn't too happy with the way they dealt with Saulot, though. The way he'd been portrayed otherwise indicated the Salubri thought he was a damn saint but that he was nowhere near as nice as he was supposed to be. Stuff about him probably creating the Baali, for example, and the implication he planned and executed the destruction of his own clan because he wasn't happy with the way they turned out. That's the kind of Saulot I wanted to see.
Actually, he *did* take over Tremere and orchestrate the destruction and demonization of the Salubri, didn't he?
I might be remembering that wrongly.
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Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
At Comic Con a couple years ago they had some Alienware computers running an early build of the game. I stood behind and watched the rep play the game for about 5 minutes. The Malkavian he had was wearing a long coat and a top hat. This was before Half-Life 2 got delayed the first time, which led to this game being held back for no other reason than that Half-Life 2 wasn't done. Is that coat and top hat in the final game?
Meatflower: Yeah it's in, you buy it from tseng's in chinatown as a malk.
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The whole concept of the scenario seemed off. Vampire's never really been about Caine or Lilith, they were gone and never coming back. It was always "this is the story of how vampires exist, but the characters are gone for good, the worst you have to worry about is the Antediluvians"
Where'd I get the stuff about Saulot killing his own clan, then? I could've sworn that was the suggestion I read somewhere. Something like he was unhappy with the way the Salubri had turned out (and he was always after perfection and Golconda and stuff), so he let Tremere know where he was, Tremere tried to diablerize him but Saulot's soul inhabited Tremere's body and influenced the Tremere clan to wipe out his "failed" clan.
Which really fits with the whole Salubri thing: the only "nice" vampires in the game, they were hunted by the Tremere, abandoned by the Camarilla, feared by their former friends, and to top it off that Saulot bloke you love so much hates you and caused all your suffering. Oh, and you're not that nice after all, you're god damn vampires
On the Malkavian armour: if it's the last armour you get, Heather (the ghoul) might give you some if you keep her around and treat her right. She gives cash and armour, but I think she cops it if you keep her around for the armour