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Scientists Deliver 'God' Via A Helmet
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Scientific American is reporting on scientific work done to map the euphoric religious feelings within the brain. As a result, it's now quite possible to experience 'proximity to God' via a special helmet: 'In a series of studies conducted over the past several decades, Persinger and his team have trained their device on the temporal lobes of hundreds of people. In doing so, the researchers induced in most of them the experience of a sensed presence — a feeling that someone (or a spirit) is in the room when no one, in fact, is — or of a profound state of cosmic bliss that reveals a universal truth. During the three-minute bursts of stimulation, the affected subjects translated this perception of the divine into their own cultural and religious language — terming it God, Buddha, a benevolent presence or the wonder of the universe."
More info on the God Simulator
I'd rather this didn't turn into a religion thread, as they seem to have been maggoty here lately. But I think these kinds of scientific inquiries bring to light interesting questions.
For one, what the hell is the evolutionary point of being able to experience these kinds of states at all? Why would we all have a hardwired 'God Spot' that allows us to experience these states of religious awe?
Secondly, monks who enter these deep trances without the aid of MRI-based equipment seem to capable of amazing feats of control over autonomic bodily processes. (eg: sitting at the bottom of a pool for half an hour by slowing their heart rate.) Do you think it would be possible to train someone to develop a similar level of control through use of one of these devices? Would you sign up for a class?
Finally... did someone just invent an Enlightenment Machine?
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The God Spot was one of the few last remaining arguments that could be put forth as evidence that humans are naturally religiously-inclined.
And now science can replicate it?
I think I am going to be the first of many to say, uh... holy shit
I can go to a fancy spa and get one goddamn awesome back massage and probably light up the same parts of my brain.
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ie, human religions are regionally distinct attempts to explain these feelings.
Neil Armstrong converted...
In the same way that mankind has always tried to explain things like the sun rising, the weather, the rise and fall of the water level. Religion (in terms of how it relates to feelings of euphoria) is probably the last bastion of mankind's attempts to explain the world around him through story.
A lot of people choose their religion based on the principles of the following. A lot of Christian people don't take the Bible literally, they choose to try and incorporate those values into their lives. Now, the reason behind trying to be a better person is up for debate, but trying to be a better person is generally a good thing.
And probably just as difficult to make common knowledge as those were.
I mean, consider the persecution of early scientists when they suggested the Earth orbited the sun, or that it was not flat.
Now, you'd be laughed at if you suggested the sun orbited the Earth (the mother in the Grade A Idiocy thread notwithstanding). Its only a matter of time before religion's temporary nature is overturned. The old beliefs about various elements of our world were one way...then the truth was discovered, it took a period of time for the masses to come around and realise it, then it became common knowledge.
How long do you think it will take for the same thing to happen with religion?
It's happened with religions before, but new religions cropped up to take their place.
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I should have completed that thought.
"Neil Armstrong converted to Islam shortly after his trip to the Moon."
However, further reading has turned up quite a few conflicting viewpoints. I guess it's not a popular time for an American Hero to be a Muslim.
ELM -> Serious? I'd think walking on the Moon would probably be one of the most awe-inspiring experiences available to Mankind right now. (Barring a super doze of God-Therapy from the MRI helmet.)
(Doubleedit: Nevermind. That has to be sarcarsm.)
*Flashbacks of Black and White*
"No! Bad Pet... no don't eat your doo doo... ... oh dear god why did you throw that man... throw the poo eat the ma... don't look at me like that!"
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Not if they wanted to die of natural causes, no.
Such a point (earth revolves around the sun) is a demonstrable fact, whereas religion has progressed from being an explanation for various phenomenon to being (for a lot of people) the center of their belief system. The 'stories' have evolved to the point that even using this scientific discovery in a debate could, would be rendered as some kind of support for their beliefs in that their beliefs (higher being, afterlife) cannot be disproven at this time and are very unlikely to be disproven unless technology alters our perception of the world far more drastically than science fiction is even suggesting.
Yep. This is a specific example of what I was referring to.
Person X converting does not grant any sort of legitimacy to [religion].
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1)Opium
2)Pot
3)Crack Cocaine
I got a friend who says he hears god talk to him when he smokes pot. Seriously full blown conversations.
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I don't mean walking around in a state of stupified awe all the time, but having a super heightened sense of awareness could be a good thing when you don't even know how to make spears or fire and you've got top billing on the menu.
Is there a chance modern man has had an evolutionary downturn by filling our brains with mundane bullshit that, in the end, doesn't really benefit us at all?
Religion as a whole?
Not happening for, at the very very least, a thousand years, if ever.
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Humans specialize to the extreme now, so they don't NEED to learn very much to survive.
Your average hunter gatherer has huge amounts of data in them.
I think more likely they just serve to reinforce religious belief rather than inducing it. There are more obvious inducers for the invention of religions (The questions "what is all this, how did I get here, what should I do?"). When the Enlightenment Button goes off I think people describe that experience within their existing schema, which is often religious.
HOW DARE YOU INSULT THE WORSHIP STONE!
*Throws Stone at face*
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More like:
Caveman Jim: Hey guys, we're going to start doing human sacrifices for the sun god.
Caveman Bob: That doesn't make any sense. Who is this guy and why should we be sacrificing ourselves for him?
Caveman Jim: Thanks for volunteering, Caveman Bob.
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I can't remember if it was MadTV or SNL, but I saw a skit once that featured him. (Or it might have been Buzz Aldrin. Doesn't matter, similar experiences.)
He basically wakes up in the morning, and his first thought is: "I was on the FREAKIN' MOON!"
Then he goes about his daily business, having breakfast, brushing his teeth, feeding ducks in the park... all the while repeating the same thought.
I imagine I'd feel similar.
Anyone who thinks otherwise could probably use a few jolts of the God simulator.
I could easily see that turning somebody into Comedian from Watchmen.
^^ This.
I have always been of the opinion that exact dates are irrelevant when it comes to history.
It is of no demonstrable value for me to be able to say that the Australian Commonwealth was formed on Jan 1st, 1901 (which it was
I don't need to know exactly WHEN these things happened. Just knowing that they happened, knowing why they were important, and a ROUGH idea of what order they happened in.
Not to mention what happens to most people if you drop them in the wilderness, or just dealing with their bodies or other creatures (it always hurts my head how helpless some people are around agitated animals).
If it wasn't part of their job training and reinforced, they never learned it or forgot it right after the test they learned it for.
We'll kill you with apathy.
That statement is made of Win and Truth.
Religion is a temporal lobe seizure, way to aim high guys.
And Crocodile Dundee.
In the last few weeks I've seen stories of breakthroughs on brain wave patterns that can let users talk to god, control electronic devices (there's a, god, I don't want to say it...but there's a video game controller about to launch that picks up on alpha, beta, and theta brain waves to control a video game), and do pretty much whatever else we can imagine. I think basically someone has started the next step into truly unlocking the potential of the human mind, but I wouldn't worry that it's going to ever take away religion. I'm absolutely amazed at what we're going to be able to do by the time I'm 50, but I'm still going to look up at the stars at night and wonder what put them there. There's just too many questions for me not to have some kind of faith in a higher power.
To answer the OP questions:
1) I don't think religiously that it will be some huge evolutionary leap.
2) I think that it could be the first step into finding out just what exactly we are capable of when we're using more of our mind than we're used to.
To post my own question:
What's the fear effect going to be? I've heard of studies in the past where subjects were placed in sensory experiments to trigger advanced brain funtion, put in rooms completely mirrored in such a way that basically the human eye could see in all directions, and some were driven nearly insane by the overload. (I'm sorry I don't have a link, I did look, but I couldn't find it) What will the reprocussion(s) be when some guy is standing in a back alley offering the chance to "meet god", or when human potential is increased, but only to the rich and powerful. How will the rest of the world react?