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Certifications for a CS/Math Major looking for a job in Networking?
Aphostile
San Francisco, CARegistered User regular
San Francisco, CARegistered User regular
So, lately I've been crunching some numbers and figured out that with an A+ certification (~35k/year) it would actually be more advantageous to me to work full time as a pharmacy technician (~50k/year) (a certification test I passed in one weekend of study) and earn some certifications before entering the computer world of my degree for work.
At the moment, I'm thinking of aiming for the CCNA and the MCSE to start with.
Being that this is the internet, give me advice!
At the moment, I'm thinking of aiming for the CCNA and the MCSE to start with.
Being that this is the internet, give me advice!
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Plus as a pharma tech - no one will call you at 2am and bitch that the asprin is rebooting and you need to get your ass in here cause that's why we pay you the big bucks.
Add - if you're into the math and CS, you can get some pretty nifty and lucrative jobs specialising in combining those two and not go the typical a+/MCSE help desk drone / server jocky route. .
B.net: Kusanku
Oh yeah? When did you earn your CCIE?
Maybe consider doing the Pharm tech thing while you're working on your Certs and finding a job. But, to be honest, from what I've seen it really is more about putting in your dues and kicking ass for a few years before you're going to see anything major; which may be a shorter period if you have professors or contacts in the industry that think you're something special and will be useful to a big money company.
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B.net: Kusanku
Quite honestly, I thought networking was the lucrative computer industry, where you won't get buried under thousands of other "programmers" with knowledge of C++ and only C++.
I've got an expansive skill-set and I've already done programming work for the government (albeit the Nevada state government). What would you recommend I do to break into that kind of work then? Just apply as a code monkey and work my way up? I'm nearly sure I'd start out even FURTHER under any livable pay-scale if I go that route and risk living in a box for years.
Indeed. They might help you get a job, but it's likely to be lame, boring, and underpaid. The best companies to work for care a lot more about competency than how many certs you have. And no, certs are by no means a good measure of competency.
Any job that requires a cert that isn't a degree isn't worth your time.
The only one I would even consider is a Cisco cert, but I wouldn't bother.
Your mistake is assuming that because there isn't a large number of network admins, that somehow there must be a shortage. You only need one competant sysadmin for teams of 40 programmers. So, there is no shortage, thus no guarantee of higher pay. I would say sysadmin is actually less pay down the road, as the promotion path is much less defined.
Computer security is where the big bucks are supposed to be coming from in the next couple of years, but no-one ever predicts this stuff correctly. As far as I can see, most of the big security breaches were a result of human incompetence and poor policies rather than weak computer protection. TBH, nothing in CS right now instantly smells of money; I would say biotech is where the technology cash is.
PharmTech is OK but a pretty dismal job, especially since you will most certainly start on the graveyard shift. How far along are you on the math/CS major?
of course if you aren't already crazy the amount of studying required for the CCIE will crush your sanity like a tin can
On the other side of the coin though a buddy of mine just got his MCSE and make over 70,000 a year....
Just out of curiosity which do you guys think helps to advance you more in the IT world experience or a degree?
Experience. But the thing is, without a degree, you have to bear the burden of proof, and that's very difficult. That's why it makes sense to get a degree to allow yourself to step up and say "I am ready to talk to you guys at this level, and here's my degree to prove it." From that point on, your experience is what defines you.
This is why certs aren't generally worth it. Once you have the degree, you need to show you can actually make stuff happen in The Real World (teamwork, documentation, leadership). Your technical ability should now be at a level where you can learn anything you need to. Jobs that request certs scare me, because I wonder why they think certs are more important than all these other roles that you need to fulfil which you can't be tested on, or that they have people working there who are so incompetent they need the certs to prove that they're capable.
Are jobs that work with C#/SQL on the upswing lately? I had some experience with that a couple years ago (a project that is now nationally accredited and used in I think 12 states) and really enjoyed it. Probably about the most fun I had "coding".
I should mention that I'm in the heart of Silicon Valley, as well...
In general, however, work experience was king in terms of the thing on the resume that best predicted how well a candidate would do in the interview. We saw lots of guys with a list of certifications longer than my arm, but little work experience. I called these guys "paper candidates," because all they had was a stack of diplomas, and they tended to fold like paper when faced with some nontrivial technical questions. Contrast that with someone who had even six months of IT experience, even if it was relatively crappy IT experience, who could at least show basic understanding of computing and networking concepts. I saw one guy who had maybe a years' worth of part time IT experience he got volunteering for a local charity. He didn't have a single certification, but he did fine in the technical interview, we hired him, and I think he's tier 2 support now.
Good show.
I'm a .NET developer in Chicago and from what I understand, the skills are very in-demand at the moment. I remember reading something on CNN/Money about the job... I forget what they were ranking (most enjoyable, etc), but it definitely came out on top. I agree with others saying that a CS degree is definitely worth more than any certification. I am involved in hiring for my company, and the number one thing we look for in new grads (besides good grades from a school with a good CS program) is interest in the field. We like to talk about the projects you have worked on in your spare time so that we can tell who really has a passion for programming.
I can agree with just about everything you just said. My mentor in all things IT left the company about 1 month ago, since then I have been the only IT guy in my area. I can honestly say that I have learned more about Networks/Windows than the N+ could have ever given me. I can't discount certs as a whole though, I think they provide a start. Before I started with my N + I knew next to nothing about networks but when I finished I had a basic understanding that allowed me to take in some advanced concepts later.
From what you've said, it sounds like you got your N+ cert to learn more about networking. The certifications aren't really intended to be a learning tool they are intended to show that you've got knowledge equivalent to some certain amount of experience, ideally gained through actual experience. Ideally you get your N+ after you already know a bit about networks and want to show that. You get your MCS<whatever> after being a Windows admin for some amount of tme. The same goes for Cisco certs, the various Linux certs, the programming language ones, etc.
After doing some research this sounds like an interesting job to pursue, do you know what kind of training is necessary for a job in PACS? Being that you had some support employees switch into the field, I figured I might as well ask.
You aren't actually required to show them your stuff when you leave.
Oh I meant for general things like computer parts you get from the cage after the fact. They're always ready to throw out the great DEAL they've got on the cruddy RAM they can't get rid of rather than just give me what I ask for.
I hate stores in general though. Except for Amoeba records in the city up here (SF), that store rocks.
I also hate rebates at Frys, since they only show up half the time and you have to wait 2 months for them when they do show. The way to fight that: when you see something that has a rebate from Fry's (not the manufacturer), offer to buy the warranty on the product if they will give you the rebated price instead of having to wait around 8 weeks to get your cash, if it ever shows up at all. The salespeople will often do this, since they are very heavily pressured to sell warranties, and they make commissions on them.
Then, once you have the rebated price, go to the front with the sales slip and tell the cashier that you changed your mind about the warranty.
The would rather have someone who has ran a large network system for a year, boosted its good numbers, lowered its bad numbers, and shown they have what it takes to run the system, then someone who has some kind of qualification that says they could probaly do it if they were given the opportunity.
On the other hand once you have been in a area for ages the qualifcation gets back some of its importance.
i.e someone with 20 years managing x or someone with 19 years managing x and a MBA in management.
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Um, most programming jobs pay pretty well in the valley, usually in the $60k+ range. I graduated with a CS degree last year and work for Cisco now and I have to say my living conditions are better than living in a box.
Silicon Valley firms do a good job recruiting around here and several companies are hiring a ton right now. With your previous job experience you should be well off. At least it seems that way to me, YMMV.
I see a lot of that in Maryland as well.
The rise of open source databases has been a real boon as well. It used to be that databases were somewhat rare, because businesses had lots applications that could benefit from a robust database backend, but for many of those applications they couldn't quite justify the cost of an Oracle or SQL Server license. For those setups, a zero-dollar MySQL or PostgreSQL backend is often enough to shift the balance from cost to benefit, so there's lots of demand for SQL knowledge out there these days.
If you can get your foot in the door with basic SQL knowledge, there are lots of ways to move up from there. If you're more into the hardcore IT side of things, you can work towards being a database administrator, which requires knowledge of how to manage your specific database system in addition to SQL knowledge. If you're more into the business side of things, being an analyst using a business intelligence requires SQL knowledge as well. I have a friend who's doing that right now, and quite enjoys it. So for anyone looking for an IT skill to pick up, SQL is a really useful one to have.
I'm a professional .NET developer and I can tell you that everywhere I look in this city .NET is in demand, and if you're proficient with databases (either Oracle or MSSQL) you'll have guys banging down your door. There are literally more .NET developer jobs here in Phoenix than actual developers it seems. I work for a huge business in their proprietary software development wing, and we've actually had a hard time finding qualified entry-level developers even. The best part is, I really enjoy working in .NET, so I'm glad to have so many options if I ever decide to change jobs.
I also give interviews and will say that we also are very interested in a degree, and very little in certifications. We're doing software development though, not hardware/networking stuff.
Well, I work in aerospace. There are TONS of positions in almost every major engineering shop for mathematicians to support them.
Given Microsoft's proclivity for screwing over it's certificatees, I'd suggest against the MCSE. They're in the process of completely changing their certification scheme (and I use that word deliberately), so even if you get an MCSE, chances are it won't be worth what you paid for it in a year or two.
Additionally, an MCSE isn't really a networking-focused certification. Aside from teaching you some subnetting and some transport protocols, it's largely an application-layer certification (OSI model like whoa).
If you want a job in networking, get a CCNA. It'll cover all of the basics you really need to know if you're going to be supporting a network. That plus your degree should go a very long way to getting you the $50K a year entry-level job you're looking for.
Nobody is going to debate you as to whether a cicso cert is going to help you land a specifically cisco-related networking job.
Way to state the obvious.
The best way to get certs if you really want them is to get hired and trained by a large company. Not a significant problem if you are highly competent.