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The Wii and HDTV

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    eobeteobet 8-bit childhood SwedenRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Ok, the Wii has only got 480p output, right?

    So, by scientific fucking fact, anyone who says that Wii games look fine on a HDTV is either a huge bullshitter, or haven't visited an optometrist in a while.

    eobet on
    Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    apotheos wrote: »
    I think someone needs to be the bearer of the news that while better looking that a Gamecube, the Wii is a lot uglier than the 360 and PS3.

    You're fucking loony!

    The 360 has that werid concave thing going on, with a finish that seems to attract cheeto stains.

    The PS3 looks like the death star of Forman Grills.

    The Wii? Cute little White thing the size of 3 DVDs.

    I can't consider any console larger than the Xbox a good looking console.

    Couscous on
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    Vargas PrimeVargas Prime King of Nothing Just a ShowRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    eobet wrote: »
    Ok, the Wii has only got 480p output, right?

    So, by scientific fucking fact, anyone who says that Wii games look fine on a HDTV is either a huge bullshitter, or haven't visited an optometrist in a while.

    If you're using the 360 or the PS3 being displayed on an HDTV as your basis for "looking fine," then of course, the Wii doesn't compare.

    But if you're actually capable of remembering what games on the PS2 and Gamecube looked like WAY BACK WHEN, and you're OK with that, then the Wii looks pretty nice.

    I have a 42" Samsung DLP with my Wii hooked up, and I haven't even gotten around to getting component cables for it yet, and my Wii games look fine to me. Maybe I'm just able to reconcile that not everything needs to be in 1080i or higher to look "decent."

    Vargas Prime on
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    DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    eobet wrote: »
    Ok, the Wii has only got 480p output, right?

    So, by scientific fucking fact, anyone who says that Wii games look fine on a HDTV is either a huge bullshitter, or haven't visited an optometrist in a while.

    Or maybe your TV has the shittiest upscaler in the universe.

    Dirty on
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    .la1n.la1n Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Dirty wrote: »
    eobet wrote: »
    Ok, the Wii has only got 480p output, right?

    So, by scientific fucking fact, anyone who says that Wii games look fine on a HDTV is either a huge bullshitter, or haven't visited an optometrist in a while.

    Or maybe your TV has the shittiest upscaler in the universe.

    haha, yeah. Seriously i'm a big HD nut and the Wii looks fine - even compared to my 360 / PS3.

    .la1n on
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    fragglefartfragglefart Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I'm glad this thread has come up, I'm unashamedly a graphics whore of the sluttiest variety, and I have been worried about my impending Wii purchase, because... I kinda get visually underwhelmed when playing the thing (only tried SD so far though). That doesn't matter entirely, I still need one for the bombastic awesome which is coming to the little thing.

    A question, specifically for fellow PAL-ers; I've heard all sorts of crazy talk regarding the PAL Virtual Console. Now, I'm looking at the VC, and thinking "there is about £200 worth of gaming sex right there" but I keep hearing about games only running in 50Hz, or having big black borders, and other niggles, and I'm wondering how this will all play out on my HD Sammy.

    Can anyone elaborate on any VC problems they have had? I want to know what I'm lining myself up for, before I get too excited and end up disappointed.

    fragglefart on
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    ToyDToyD Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I have a 42" 1080 LG television with Wii and 1st party compoonent cables easily purchased. I think all of the games look just fine. I think it depends on what exactly you're looking for. If you're looking for "realistic looking," then Wii is the wrong place. But when the designers really work with what's available, I think even Wii games can look spectacular because the emphasis is not on fantastic lighting effects, massive draw distance, 100 hojillion polygons on screen, or whatever. The emphasis is on the new style of gameplay with the Wiimote and an appropriate interface. Not once have I looked at it and said "this looks like shit." However, not once I have looked at it and said "holy shit this looks goddamned amazing" either.

    tldr: Graphics are fine, focus is on game interaction.

    ToyD on
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    ZackSchillingZackSchilling Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Dirty wrote: »
    eobet wrote: »
    Ok, the Wii has only got 480p output, right?

    So, by scientific fucking fact, anyone who says that Wii games look fine on a HDTV is either a huge bullshitter, or haven't visited an optometrist in a while.

    Or maybe your TV has the shittiest upscaler in the universe.

    On my 720p projector games look very nice. Each pixel of in-game graphics is made up of about 4 projector pixels. Is this a problem? No, because it's huge, vibrant, and sharp. It's not HD but it is pleasing to the eye, unlike composite. It looks like a good DVD in a good, progressive scan player. I'm not complaining.

    ZackSchilling on
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    eobeteobet 8-bit childhood SwedenRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    eobet wrote: »
    Ok, the Wii has only got 480p output, right?

    So, by scientific fucking fact, anyone who says that Wii games look fine on a HDTV is either a huge bullshitter, or haven't visited an optometrist in a while.

    If you're using the 360 or the PS3 being displayed on an HDTV as your basis for "looking fine," then of course, the Wii doesn't compare.

    But if you're actually capable of remembering what games on the PS2 and Gamecube looked like WAY BACK WHEN, and you're OK with that, then the Wii looks pretty nice.

    I have a 42" Samsung DLP with my Wii hooked up, and I haven't even gotten around to getting component cables for it yet, and my Wii games look fine to me. Maybe I'm just able to reconcile that not everything needs to be in 1080i or higher to look "decent."
    Dirty wrote: »
    Or maybe your TV has the shittiest upscaler in the universe.

    They need to be sharp, though, and what was (and actually still is) sharp on a CRT doesn't render nearly as well on an LCD, in my experience. I have the latest Sony Bravia, and I can't bear to watch DVDs on it anymore.

    eobet on
    Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
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    Vargas PrimeVargas Prime King of Nothing Just a ShowRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    eobet wrote: »
    eobet wrote: »
    Ok, the Wii has only got 480p output, right?

    So, by scientific fucking fact, anyone who says that Wii games look fine on a HDTV is either a huge bullshitter, or haven't visited an optometrist in a while.

    If you're using the 360 or the PS3 being displayed on an HDTV as your basis for "looking fine," then of course, the Wii doesn't compare.

    But if you're actually capable of remembering what games on the PS2 and Gamecube looked like WAY BACK WHEN, and you're OK with that, then the Wii looks pretty nice.

    I have a 42" Samsung DLP with my Wii hooked up, and I haven't even gotten around to getting component cables for it yet, and my Wii games look fine to me. Maybe I'm just able to reconcile that not everything needs to be in 1080i or higher to look "decent."
    Dirty wrote: »
    Or maybe your TV has the shittiest upscaler in the universe.

    They need to be sharp, though, and what was (and actually still is) sharp on a CRT doesn't render nearly as well on an LCD, in my experience. I have the latest Sony Bravia, and I can't bear to watch DVDs on it anymore.

    No offense, because I know people who share your opinion, but it sounds like this is more your personal problem, not the Wii's. I fear you've developed a quite serious case of Eye-Snobbery.

    Vargas Prime on
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    ToyDToyD Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    eobet wrote: »
    eobet wrote: »
    Ok, the Wii has only got 480p output, right?

    So, by scientific fucking fact, anyone who says that Wii games look fine on a HDTV is either a huge bullshitter, or haven't visited an optometrist in a while.

    If you're using the 360 or the PS3 being displayed on an HDTV as your basis for "looking fine," then of course, the Wii doesn't compare.

    But if you're actually capable of remembering what games on the PS2 and Gamecube looked like WAY BACK WHEN, and you're OK with that, then the Wii looks pretty nice.

    I have a 42" Samsung DLP with my Wii hooked up, and I haven't even gotten around to getting component cables for it yet, and my Wii games look fine to me. Maybe I'm just able to reconcile that not everything needs to be in 1080i or higher to look "decent."
    Dirty wrote: »
    Or maybe your TV has the shittiest upscaler in the universe.

    They need to be sharp, though, and what was (and actually still is) sharp on a CRT doesn't render nearly as well on an LCD, in my experience. I have the latest Sony Bravia, and I can't bear to watch DVDs on it anymore.

    No offense, because I know people who share your opinion, but it sounds like this is more your personal problem, not the Wii's. I fear you've developed a quite serious case of Eye-Snobbery.

    Not really Wii-related, but this does happen. Play FF XII on any SDTV, then play it on an HDTV and tell me it doesn't look MUCH worse. The designers cheated when using round RGB lights that look TERRIBLE when you display it on an HDTV with pixels.

    ToyD on
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    mausmalonemausmalone Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    apotheos wrote: »
    I think someone needs to be the bearer of the news that while better looking that a Gamecube, the Wii is a lot uglier than the 360 and PS3.

    Not really. That wasn't what was asked, and it isn't what this thread is about.

    To add to the thread, however, I have a cheap-o Advent HDTV with 3rd party cables and it looks fine. It's not HD of course, but the image is very crisp and clear. Most games support 480p and 16:9 with a few notable exceptions (Mario Party, Raving Rabids, NeoGeo VC titles), but in general I've had very few things running interlaced.

    Component cables won't make the Wii look HD or anything, but it'll get rid of the composite blurriness and the s-video "dot-crawl" pattern.

    mausmalone on
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    DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Wait a second. Neo Geo games only do 480i?

    Dirty on
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    mausmalonemausmalone Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Dirty wrote: »
    Wait a second. Neo Geo games only do 480i?

    That's the word around the internets. I haven't tried out World Heroes in the living room yet, so I can't confirm or deny.

    I'll go try that now and then edit this post.

    EDIT: Yeah, I can confirm that Neo Geo games (at least World Heroes) don't support 480p. Too bad because my shitty comb filter does an awful job with their whole 60Hz blinking shadow deal.

    mausmalone on
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    eobeteobet 8-bit childhood SwedenRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    eobet wrote: »
    eobet wrote: »
    Ok, the Wii has only got 480p output, right?

    So, by scientific fucking fact, anyone who says that Wii games look fine on a HDTV is either a huge bullshitter, or haven't visited an optometrist in a while.

    If you're using the 360 or the PS3 being displayed on an HDTV as your basis for "looking fine," then of course, the Wii doesn't compare.

    But if you're actually capable of remembering what games on the PS2 and Gamecube looked like WAY BACK WHEN, and you're OK with that, then the Wii looks pretty nice.

    I have a 42" Samsung DLP with my Wii hooked up, and I haven't even gotten around to getting component cables for it yet, and my Wii games look fine to me. Maybe I'm just able to reconcile that not everything needs to be in 1080i or higher to look "decent."
    Dirty wrote: »
    Or maybe your TV has the shittiest upscaler in the universe.

    They need to be sharp, though, and what was (and actually still is) sharp on a CRT doesn't render nearly as well on an LCD, in my experience. I have the latest Sony Bravia, and I can't bear to watch DVDs on it anymore.

    No offense, because I know people who share your opinion, but it sounds like this is more your personal problem, not the Wii's. I fear you've developed a quite serious case of Eye-Snobbery.

    See my original quote for the fact, and not the opinion. 480p upscaled cannot possibly be sharp, unless you use spline based algorithms, and no computer is that fast today.

    eobet on
    Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
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    LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    eobet wrote: »
    See my original quote for the fact, and not the opinion. 480p upscaled cannot possibly be sharp, unless you use spline based algorithms, and no computer is that fast today.
    eobet wrote: »
    Ok, the Wii has only got 480p output, right?

    So, by scientific fucking fact, anyone who says that Wii games look fine on a HDTV is either a huge bullshitter, or haven't visited an optometrist in a while.

    Have you considered the possibility that some people don't equate "looking fine" with sharp?

    Lunker on
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    DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Just checked around online, and IGN confirmed that Neo Geo games lack 480p support on the Wii. I guess I won't be buying any Neo Geo games for the VC after all.

    Dirty on
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2007
    Hypertime wrote: »
    Following an HDTV purchase, I bought a 360 and PS3

    Damn, income-tax return? lol

    Organichu on
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    fragglefartfragglefart Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I'm not sure if PAL-ness is off topic, but eh... I've been trying to find out about the VC PAL issues, whaddaya know, wikipedia comes to the rescue.

    PAL Virtual Console games

    Just about bloody all of them run at slower speed and with borders. :( This is really upsetting, the VC was something I've been really looking forward to.

    And here is a summary of the problems;
    PAL issues

    With the launch of the Wii in territories using the PAL television system, it has become apparent that in most cases the games supplied for the Virtual Console run in 50Hz mode and in their original unoptimized state. Unoptimized PAL games run roughly 17% slower than their original speed in 60Hz and have borders covering the top and the bottom of the screen. Setting the Wii console to 60Hz mode does not force the 50Hz game into 60Hz mode (as is possible on emulators and modified PAL consoles).

    All currently released Nintendo 64 games are partially PAL optimized, resulting in full screen games (although still running in 50Hz and locked to the original slower gameplay speed). This optimization was not the case for the original cartridge versions of Super Mario 64, Wave Race 64 or Mario Kart 64, making the Virtual Console versions superior in that regard.

    Additionally, some Super Nintendo games are also partially PAL optimized with reduced borders but still retaining the slower run speed of the original PAL release (Super Mario World, Super Probotector and Street Fighter II).

    A select few games were already optimized in the original release to begin with, and are thus just as fast as their 60Hz counterparts this time around (The most obvious examples being Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest).

    Turbografx games are the only Virtual Console games to actually run in 60Hz on PAL Wii systems; this is because the game data was never changed for release in PAL territories, the original hardware itself performed the conversion to a 50Hz signal.

    One example of a poor PAL conversion is seen in the Virtual Console release of Sonic The Hedgehog, which retains the slower framerate and borders of the original PAL Mega Drive version,[58] despite the fact that the GameCube release Sonic Mega Collection allows PAL users to choose which version of the game they want to play.

    Recently, during Nintendo's 'Hanabi Festival' campaign, certain titles that were never released in Europe are being added to the Virtual console. Some of these games, namely the Japan only titles such as Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels, are run in 60Hz only, thus keeping the original speed and gameplay. A small reminder is shown when previewing the game's channel. Interestingly, these games can actually be played in both PAL60 (480i) and 480p modes. This makes these releases look significantly better on Progressive displays such as LCD TV's. The fast moving sprites in NES and SNES games generally create a significant amount of interlace artifacts on such displays that the 480p option resolves.

    [edit] PAL games over component

    Initially, some PAL Virtual Console games would not display correctly on high-definition televisions when connected via the component lead. However, starting with the April 13, 2007 update of the PAL Virtual Console, certain newly added games, such as Punch-Out!!, support the "Wii Component Cable Interlace mode." This is a temporary fix to problems with various Virtual Console games being played over component cable on HDTVs. The mode can be enabled by accessing the operations guide of the game, and (with the Nunchuk attached) pressing the buttons Z + A + 2 simultaneously. A sound is played if the mode is enabled correctly. Several older games also have updates available to enable the feature, including Super Castlevania IV and Super Mario Bros. The mode can be disabled by using the same method, but with the button combination Z + A + 1 instead. A full list of games supporting this mode is available at nintendo.no [59], an english version can be found at vc-forums.com[60].

    Ok, that sounds pretty broken and fucked.

    Does anyone have much experience with how this plays out in practice?

    The only time I've used the VC for a decent amount of time, I was pretty damned drunk, and it was such a thrill to play Mario Kart 64 and Mario 64 (it had been a looong while) I didn't really pay attention to what was going on regarding PAL-ness.

    In particular, I want to play through a lot of SNES stuff I've missed (never had one when younger, used a mate's) and replay through some Mega Drive gems. I've never liked emulation, so things like the VC (and Live Arcade <3) are just about the best things evar for me. If PAL Wii VC is all kindsa broken, does anyone know about my importing options? What problems might I encounter? Will retail PAL games here work on an import unit? What about any online issues? I'd really appreciate any help, so thanks in advance!

    fragglefart on
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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Fraggle, you are missing the point. The reason most of the Wii VC games are like that is because the original was like that. The games will play like they originally did.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
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    fragglefartfragglefart Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Fraggle, you are missing the point. The reason most of the Wii VC games are like that is because the original was like that. The games will play like they originally did.

    Oh I know that, but what I played when I was 10 on a 12" crappy mono-speaker 50hz TV via composite, when there was no other option, and what I want to play now are two different things. At the end of the day this stuff is going to be pumped to a large LCD HDTV with digital 5.1 surround sound.

    I don't want to play black-bordered at 80% speed, with the music sped up, if I have another option. Like I said, if PAL VC is broken, what are my import options? I want to play the games as the developers intended, not "meh forget Europe LOLZ" I had enough of that shit when I was younger. (But hey, last time I used the VC I was having too much fun/too drunk to notice anyway so if there really is no other choice...)

    If I can, say, get a US Wii and play these games correctly, I'd go for that... but I have no idea how/if such an endeavor would work, and I still need to be able to play retail titles, somehow... D:

    fragglefart on
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    OneEyedJackOneEyedJack Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I have to say, I really hate the way my wii looks on my 50" HD. I have component cables and have dinked with the controls. It just looks bad. Freakin Nintendo.

    OneEyedJack on
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    hardcasehardcase Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Djim...I have a 32" Sharp 1080P LCD tv that I am using as a monitor. Are you doing so also. Looks amazing and the desktop is fully visible at 1872/99x resolution. 1920/1080P cuts the edges off. Surprisingly my 7800 nvidia runs most all quiet well. It is OC about 10% as is my mobo, so the comp is about a 4k amd

    hardcase on
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    Raziel_pmRaziel_pm Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I can definitely vouch for the Wii looking great on an HDTV with component cables. I play on a 61" Samsung 1080p DLP(which doubles as my PC monitor).

    S3700094.jpg

    Raziel_pm on
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    hardcasehardcase Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Were you able to use the full 1920/1080 resolution on the DLP or did you have to reduce it to get full desktop and game screening? Looks great. I have been tempted to use my 50" but it is only 720. Next aquisition is a 1080P Plasma..50" or better. Panasonic at BB is now the same price I paid for the 720. As posted above I had to reduce the rez ot 1872/99x

    hardcase on
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    Raziel_pmRaziel_pm Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I use full 1920x1080 res for my PC. Never had any problems with ANY games I've played on it, and it looks as fantastic as you could imagine it. I have it hooked-up via DVI->HDMI from teh video card to the TV.

    Raziel_pm on
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    Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    You people and your infinite amounts of money to blow on expensive televisions.

    *cries*

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
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    slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    My friend has the same TV as Raziel there, iirc. Wii games look good enough to him and me on it.

    slash000 on
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    HypertimeHypertime Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Organichu wrote: »
    Hypertime wrote: »
    Following an HDTV purchase, I bought a 360 and PS3

    Damn, income-tax return? lol

    Ah, c'mon, its been a while since I've splurged. I did it to save the American economy, what with the consumer confidence index so low these days. But, to be honest, I have a pretty good job, no debt and no one to support. I'm a compulsive saver and I do that so I can treat myself to splurges every now and then.

    Speaking of which, time to get back to my gold-plated, diamond-encrusted Scandinavian supermodel hookers.

    :shock:

    Hypertime on
    Your mom.
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    BadNovaBadNova Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    looks pretty good to me :D

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    BadNova on
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2007
    Hypertime wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Hypertime wrote: »
    Following an HDTV purchase, I bought a 360 and PS3

    Damn, income-tax return? lol

    Ah, c'mon, its been a while since I've splurged. I did it to save the American economy, what with the consumer confidence index so low these days. But, to be honest, I have a pretty good job, no debt and no one to support. I'm a compulsive saver and I do that so I can treat myself to splurges every now and then.

    Speaking of which, time to get back to my gold-plated, diamond-encrusted Scandinavian supermodel hookers.

    :shock:

    Haha no worries, I just wish I was in your position. I'm still crying every time I notice the gaping hole in my wallet after grabbing my 360.

    Organichu on
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    hardcasehardcase Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    The DLP probably doesn't have the edges covered by a frame. I could see portions of the edge icons but had to reduce the rez a little. I think CRTs and smaller LCD monitors are dead but just don't know it. I am running the DVI out to the DVI in on the Sharp. It has 3 HDMI, one is for cable and I am using Component for the DVD. I have a dvi to HDMI adapter but just to lazy to go buy a HDMI at Walmart to run the computer on. TVs as monitors to monitors compare as Cable to Dialup. There is no returing.

    hardcase on
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    MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Hypertime wrote: »
    So, for you HDTV and Wii owners out there, how has the experience been?

    I've played it on two different HDTVs. A cheap Aldi one, and a more expensive Panasonic one. I used component cables on both.

    It looked really nice on the more expensive one. However, the cheaper HDTV actually looked worse than a SDTV. There were scaling artefacts everywhere.

    Twilight Princess was the worst on there. Any time there was a complex pattern of pixels (which there are a lot of in TP's textures), the scaling went bonkers and turned it into an indistinguishable mess of pixels.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
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    JeanJean Heartbroken papa bear Gatineau, QuébecRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I use Niko component cables to play with my Wii on my new 40 inch Sony Bravia. The image quality is better than it was on my previous SDTV.

    The only difference in beetween Niko and Nintendo component cables is the price, or so I've been told.

    Jean on
    "You won't destroy us, You won't destroy our democracy. We are a small but proud nation. No one can bomb us to silence. No one can scare us from being Norway. This evening and tonight, we'll take care of each other. That's what we do best when attacked'' - Jens Stoltenberg
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