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Modeling Quinne : Patient Eyes Needed! (Updated 12/14/07)

Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
edited December 2007 in Artist's Corner
I've been experimenting with Zbrush lately. I've decided that my first finished piece will be of a girl based on the Suicide Girl Quinne. She has a very cute but yet plain face that I think will be somewhat hard to get right.

I've been working on it modeling it and I'm having a problem seeing if I'm actually capturing her face well. Kinda a forest through the trees thing. This is just a work in progress, however. I know that she doesn't have eyes, ears, ext. The main features I've been working on so far are the mouth, nose, cheeks and jawline. Everything else is obviously not anywhere near finished.

And here are some shots of Quinne just in case you don't know what she looks like.

05.jpg

04.jpg

Unfortunately I couldn't find really good profile shots of her.

So with everything I said above in mind, how am I doing so far? Anything that immediately pops out as needing a lot of works? Is her jawline right? I'm having a really hard time with that.

No I don't.
Death of Rats on
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Posts

  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    AAAAAAND an update.

    I've been working on getting the features working together and I think I've gotten it a lot closer to "human" instead of "horrible monster".

    Hopefully this update will cause people to give me some constructive criticism. I'm kinda going into this blind, so I'd really appreciate it. Even if you don't know much about 3d modeling, I'm just looking for "her nose is way off" or "her chin isn't that big" and that sort of stuff. It'll help me know where I really need to focus on.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Creambun 007Creambun 007 Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    At this stage of the game, I think it's too early to be looking for suggestions. Block out the features and don't concentrate on any details or subtleties at this stage. Honestly, I can see that you're focusing too much on the details too early on, which is why your first version and second version are almost identical.

    Creambun 007 on
    Diggity.
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I actually agree. Very little revisions between the two models. I really need to work on getting everything to mesh together correctly. Hopefully since I redid the topology last night it will get a little easier to do so.

    But I'm going to keep posting updates in this thread. I figure that way once I reach some level of quality people will see what I've gone through to get it. Also, I like being told if I'm doing something completely wrong or not heading in the direction I think I am.

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne09.jpg

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne06.jpg

    Here's the topology

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne08.jpg

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne07.jpg

    And here's the model before I redid the topology (for comparison)

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne11.jpg

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne10.jpg

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    One major thing I'm seeing that's making her look much more like an old manish troll, is you've distorted everything below the eyes. Look at the profile reference pic, NOTHING sticks out as far as you have it. The nose is about twice as extended as it should be. I think you got too caught up in focusing on the roundness of her head and went overboard. If you look at the extrusions, in her pic, the forehead is almost exactly in line with her upper lip, and while her chin is slightly recessed, it is also almost parallel to the previous two. Not so in your model.

    Just saw wakkas fix, and this is closer, but could still have all the features below the eye brought back into the head some more. Also his chin is a lot closer to the real thing than yours. Also also, you're modeling some wierd features sans the "baby fat" look, which ends up making her look trollish. Round out some stuff like the underside of the jaw so it matches the photo.

    edit:

    Shitty windows paint assistance!
    05lt7.jpgquinne10kf5.jpg

    On the model, the purple is what you have currently, and green is where I'm thinking it should be.
    Hope that helps some.

    Shiboe on
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    That helps me tremendously. I'll post an update with what you and wakka said taken into account here in a day or two.

    I knew she was looking really trollish, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out why.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • El BananaEl Banana Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Am I the only one getting a a very stwong "dat wascally wabbit" vibe?

    El Banana on
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Holy shit you're right.

    Maybe I should stop where I'm at and make an awesome elmer fudd model.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    So I've only had a few hours to work on it in the last few days (week), but I think I've made enough of a difference where you guys can tell me if I'm starting to go in the right direction with it. Or if I've even touched on the problems you were telling me.

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne12.jpg

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne13.jpg

    I think it's starting to look a little less troll like... but a little less female as well. It all has to do with the jawline I think, but I'm just not sure how to get that right. Also, all the features have lost any "detail" I had in them before, so in some ways this may be a step back, but as far as the overall proportions I think this is the biggest step forward I've taken.

    So once again, if you can see anything obvious that you'd like to point out, go right on ahead. I'm going to work on these proportions until people here think I've got them right.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Methinks the eyes are too far apart, the nose isn't detailed enough, and the mouth is a bit too small. Her chin also seems to jut out a weee bit too low and too far.

    What you really need are good frontal and profile shot references. Don't know about zBrush, but in Maya they're lifesavers.

    Heartlash on
    My indie mobile gaming studio: Elder Aeons
    Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Heartlash wrote: »
    Methinks the eyes are too far apart, the nose isn't detailed enough, and the mouth is a bit too small. Her chin also seems to jut out a weee bit too low and too far.

    What you really need are good frontal and profile shot references. Don't know about zBrush, but in Maya they're lifesavers.

    Yeah, I really wish I could get a couple of quality frontal and profile shots of Quinne, but almost all of her shots are either frontal, or at a very very slight angle. No profiles.

    Guess that's what I get for trying to use a suicide girl as photo reference. However, once I start working on the body portion of this, I'll have plenty... PLENTY of reference. More than I could ever need.

    Everything I agree with you on and I've began working on it. Well, besides the nose comment. Obviously the nose isn't detailed enough. Nothing is detailed enough yet (no eyelids? Nostrils? Details on the ears?) for this to even be close to me getting find details done. What I'm working on right now is just getting everything to basically "mesh" together in the right proportions. Once I get that I'll start detailing the features more.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • MEADONEMEADONE Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    The chin and jawline are pretty beefy and manish, and I agree tha the eyes are set too far apart.

    MEADONE on
  • NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Zbrush makes it really easy to shove stuff around with drastic results. While getting the main shape of the features right is important before working on details, I think it would work well to take something like the nose and get that as right as you think you can in a general size/shape sense and then build off of that. Give yourself an anchor to work off of, something that you look and say "yes, that looks like her"

    Also, suicide girls are a bit creepy to me.

    NotASenator on
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne15.jpg

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne14.jpg

    I'm thinking the nose might be a little too thin and I might have cut down on the chin a little bit much. What do you guys think? Anything really off about this (well, besides the eyes. I had them looking ok but Zbrush crashed when I went to save)?.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Mr. H.G. BlobMr. H.G. Blob Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    The face seems a bit wide from the front. Profile is looking pretty good though.

    Mr. H.G. Blob on
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    The face seems a bit wide from the front. Profile is looking pretty good though.

    Now that you say that... it does look a tad bit wide. That should be an easy fix though.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Untitled-1-4.gif

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne16.jpg

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne17.jpg

    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/deathofrats01/quinne18.jpg

    Not much to say here besides I reworked the nose some and tried to make the head thinner. It was definitely way to wide. Really, WAAAY too wide.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • MEADONEMEADONE Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    From looking at the refs, I think the nose is a bit long and a bit too bulbous at the end.

    MEADONE on
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Oh man. I just got a new mouse. It makes this so much easier when my mouse isn't constantly acting like I'm double clicking or letting go of the click.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    You've still got the problem the original had.

    ryanpiro.jpg

    f01.jpg

    Problem areas:

    ---the size of the head vs. the size of the face
    ---the cheekbones are huge
    ---the ear is misplaced/wrong shape/huge
    ---nose is huge
    ---space under nose is very small - mouth area, chin
    ---jawline too defined towards back
    ---slope of neck, under chin, starts waaaay too forward...should be back farther...it makes the model look like it has a very beefy neck (this could also be emphasized by the fact that the back of the head is oversized, and the slope of the neck is off there, too.

    If you look at more photo references (or real people), you should be able to see where your model differs. You could also overlay a photograph (in Photoshop or something) on a picture of your model. I know you're trying to do a specific person, but if you did the photo-overlay, you'd get the basic structure down correctly...and you'd just need to tweak the model to get the likeness of the girl you want to.

    NightDragon on
  • vrempirevrempire Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    The first pic has quite a disproportioned jaw and cheek.
    but you have improved it in the subsequent image.
    Way to go Death of Rats.

    vrempire on
    vrembanner.gif
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Well lets see... NightDragon, thank you for pointing out head vs face thing. I think I got most of that fixed in this update. I really need to start working on the eyes. I shouldn't have anything else with any detail with the eyes being the way they are.

    Oh well, how's everything else looking?

    quinne20.jpg

    quinne19.jpg

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    quinne01-1.jpg

    quinne02-1.jpg

    Lots of work done on it this time. I've tried to make the ears a lot more detailed. Also a lot more accurate (her ears really do pop out that far from her head). Also, as you may notice, I've reworked the jawline/chin/nose/mouth relationship a big. The nose is now shorter, the mouth area is bigger, and the jawline/cheek area is more chubby. And the biggest thing I've worked on in this update is eye sockets. They're not detailed (I have to redo the topology. It's very... icky around there right now), but I think I got the proportion/spacing right on them this time (no more almost animeish large eyes). Unfortunately she does have rather large eyes, so it's hard to tell whether or not they look large because of that, or because the proportions are wrong.

    And also I've worked on getting the overall shape of the skull in there better. It's fun searching for images of women with shaved heads.

    So once again, if you see anything about the proportions or the few parts that are detailed that is just driving you nuts, please tell me. Every piece of criticism I have gotten in this thread has helped me tremendously on getting this thing looking closer and closer to "quinne". I plan on doing these updates here like this until this thing is done.

    Edit: Huh... I just noticed that half the stuff I did to the ear seems to be missing. Well shit. I guess I'll have to redo it.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I haven't been working on this as much lately, but over the last month I think I've made some progress. This is taking me much longer than it should.

    quinne003.jpg

    quinne002.jpg

    quinne001.jpg

    I think I'm starting to get close to having the proportions correct. Once again, prove me wrong with wonderful criticism.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Kasyn Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Not to be a dick or anything, but immediately this comes to mind.

    wbyellow_narrowweb__200x270.jpg

    UnknownSaint on
  • ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I couldn't model my way out of a paper bag, but here are some problems as they occur to me.

    1. You're trying to model this with awful reference. It seems to me like it's nearly impossible to get good likeness unless you are a fantastic modeler working without at the very least a good quality frontal and profile mugshot set. You have some picture that are close-ish but the angle of the camera and the tilt of her face make them difficult to work with and compare to your model.

    Her expression is also changing slightly in every picture, which compounds with the fact that you're trying to model her face with a smile, which is probably why it looks a little contorted and goblin-esque.

    2. As ND has pointed out, her skull is really not modeled very well. It looks like a soccer ball with a face. That is not how a skull is shaped, and until you fix it she will continue to look like all the more like a goblin or the guy from sin city.

    3. You're modeling her ears with those hoop things in them, but as you've modeled them she simply looks like she has a pair of old man's ears rather than the lobes have been stretched with a hoop.

    Scosglen on
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Scosglen wrote: »
    2. As ND has pointed out, her skull is really not modeled very well. It looks like a soccer ball with a face. That is not how a skull is shaped, and until you fix it she will continue to look like all the more like a goblin or the guy from sin city.

    You see, I thought I fixed it. Seeing how I said so in my second to last update, and no one here bothered to say "hey, it still looks wonky", I assumed it was all nice and fixed.

    Not to be a dick, but it seems like unless someone's posting something of excellent quality, 3d artists get completely ignored on this board. If I were posting amature level drawing stuff, people would be ready and willing to post how horrible I am. But since I'm posting amature level modeling stuff, people don't seem to want to post anything at all. 12 out of 27 posts in this thread are by people other than myself.

    Let me just be honest here, I feel like I'm trying to improve. I'm trying to take any and all criticism and advice and incorporate it into the model. But so far people here seem unwilling to actually post any criticism, which leaves me lost wondering whether or not things are looking right. Are people simply ignoring the thread, or are they not posting anything because it looks right?

    Obviously it's the former, or else you wouldn't have had anything to say. I just wonder why people ignored the thread for well over a month. Is it because it's a 3d model? Are people somehow incapable of criticizing something if it's in a medium they don't use? Or is the model so bad that it's just not worth saving (this would be hypocritical. I've seen plenty of 2d threads with bad art be steered into the right direction)?

    Or is it the way I'm handling criticism? Is it just not worth people's time to criticize something when the person doesn't get offended, but also doesn't seem to be able to aptly apply the criticism to their piece?

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Kasyn Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Obviously it's the former, or else you wouldn't have had anything to say. I just wonder why people ignored the thread for well over a month. Is it because it's a 3d model? Are people somehow incapable of criticizing something if it's in a medium they don't use? Or is the model so bad that it's just not worth saving (this would be hypocritical. I've seen plenty of 2d threads with bad art be steered into the right direction)?

    Or is it the way I'm handling criticism? Is it just not worth people's time to criticize something when the person doesn't get offended, but also doesn't seem to be able to aptly apply the criticism to their piece?

    It's not the medium. You don't have to be a 3d modeler to spot issues with anatomy in a model. I do think there could be a bit of reluctance though to contribute now, mostly because people have been giving you laundry lists of issues, and you seem to be progressing sideways on the whole thing.

    If this is something you are relatively new at, I don't think there is anything wrong with scrapping this one and taking another project up - particularly one where you don't have so many things working against you. Scosglen articulated what those things are, and I think anyone would have a hard time disagreeing.

    When I did a lot of ceramic work, sometimes I'd run into stuff where my idea and ambition was beyond my technical skill. I cut my losses and worked on other things, then came back to my idea the next project later and was amazed at how easy I came up with good results. Just a thought.

    UnknownSaint on
  • thebovrilmonkeythebovrilmonkey Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Are people somehow incapable of criticizing something if it's in a medium they don't use?

    I think this is it.
    I can go ahead and criticise pretty much anything, but it's limited to, for example, 'yeah, it's crap' or 'the chin looks wonky' if I don't know much about the medium.
    It annoys me no end if I get unconstructive criticism, so I extend other people the same courtesy and keep quiet if I can't at least offer suggestions that might help.

    For your model, the ears look too big, the neck doesn't look wide enough and the mouth looks wrong, almost like it's pouting.
    It's fairly hard to compare off centre reference photos with your screenshots though, I wouldn't mind seeing screenshots from the same angle as the photos were taken with similar lighting.

    thebovrilmonkey on
    Liquid Cow
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Well, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and start over. But first I'm going to run through a "modeling the skull" tutorial. This way I can have the skull as a subtool to the redone Quinne head. Turn on transparancies and I'll be able to see if my model's skull matches a real skull. I'll post some progress images of the skull model later today.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    So I did a quick skull using reference images (the zbrush page has a good profile and frontal view of a skull).

    skull-03.jpg

    skull-02.jpg

    skull.jpg

    And then I checked how it meshed with my Quinne model.

    quinneskull02.jpg

    quinneskull.jpg

    quinneskull03.jpg

    And then I came to the conclusion that I need to start this little project over.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I think you're overreacting a little bit, and you HAVE received critique in this thread. Not a lot, but it's pretty rude to the people who posted to say that nobody is has helped you.

    There are only a handful of 3D modelers on this forum as compared to 2D artists. I don't know what everyone else's excuse is but I am totally unfamiliar with the work process of creating 3D models, how to fix problems, and frankly even the basic vocabulary I should use to describe aspects of the model. All I can offer is very superficial comments about how the actual model looks in the screencap.

    The reason I waited until your third iteration is because your model was so rough in the beginning that I was waiting to see if the likeness would improve in further iterations. All I can offer are comments on the 'gestalt' of the model and I didn't think it was prudent to say anything until it became clear the model was progressing sideways at best.

    I look at the work more than I read in most crit threads. Sue me.

    As for your skull study-- bear in mind that every skull's proportions are naturally a little different, and varies slightly between the sexes. That said, the overlay still demonstrates very clearly nearly all of the proportional problems in your model, and handily illustrates the problem with the shape of the cranium. Unless you are dead set on modeling Quinne, I again suggest you find another model that has good side and front reference shots, or at the very least dig around for better references of Quinne.

    Scosglen on
  • JeakJeak Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Scosglen wrote: »
    bear in mind that every skull's proportions are naturally a little different, and varies slightly between the sexes. That said, the overlay still demonstrates very clearly nearly all of the proportional problems in your model, and handily illustrates the problem with the shape of the cranium. Unless you are dead set on modeling Quinne, I again suggest you find another model that has good side and front reference shots.

    Jeak on
  • rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I realize it takes longer to do a 3d model than to draw, but man..come on this is just one project and it has been going on for almost 2 months? Do something to the best of your abilities, then do something else. Don't dick raround with one project for two months. No offense, but you probably are not going to learn dick that way. And people can only say so much about one thing. Most of your images from the first page look the same. Very little progress from one to the next. By the end of the second page of my thread I had posted more than 30 different drawings/paintings.

    Just get work done and move on. Thats how you learn. People will comment as you get more stuff done. There are a lot of lessons to learn out there, so just try your hand with different projects. Improvement is something you see over the course of years, not overnight.

    I also suggest learning to daw from life, it helped my roommate a lot with his 3d stuff.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Sorry about that post. It agree, it was rude of me. I really do appreciate every piece of advice I've gotten in this thread. However, after some thought, I've decided to continue work on this thing. I have over 250 images of quinne's head, and over 1150 all together, might as well put them to use.

    And I should clarify somethings... and this is mainly for cakemikz. I haven't been working on this model constantly for the last 2 months. Basically every other week or so I work on it for a day or two. Overall I've probably put 72 hours into this thing. Which isn't a lot considering I'm not only trying to learn the software, but also get a grasp on the anatomy of a face.

    Also, I'm well aware of how progress is made. I am learning an amazing amount as far as how to actually model a face. I've learned a ton about topology (more on that later). I've learned a lot about how zbrush works, and how to efficiently use it's tools in the beginning stages of modeling. I may not be making much progress on the model itself, but as far as what I'm learning it's worth it. I think the fact that I'm continuing to work (and learn) on this model, even after 2 months is proof that I don't think that improvement is something see overnight.

    This is the way I see this, if I continue to work on this thing and actually finish it I'll be that much better at the next model. Every time I learn a little trick on the face, I'll be able to use it on the body. Every step of the way I'll be getting better and quicker at this. So why give up on this one model when half of the problem on it is my inexperience with modeling?

    And jesus, comparing what you've done to what I'm doing is such a dick move. Seriously man, I'm trying to learn something here, why be a fucking prick about it?



    Ok, now onto the actual model. I tried to use the skull as a basis for getting the head to look more... human. Once I got something that I thought was correct (or close to it) I redid the topology for what seems to be the fifth time. To those who have no idea what topology is, I'll explain it really quick...

    Topology is basically the blueprint of a model. They're the the initial quads that are them subdivided to give more and more detail. The goal with your initial topology is to not only get as much detail out of as few quads as possible, but also to get the topology lines to follow the natural lines on a face with as few "corners" as possible.

    Well, the other times I did the topology I didn't know this. This time I did. I redid it twice, each with a different pattern from a different human model. One I liked, one I didn't. Here's a comparison between what I had before, and what I have now.

    topologycomparison02.jpg

    topologycomparison03.jpg

    topologycomparison01.jpg

    As you can see, the new topology follows the face much better... and isn't insane as far as the number of quads... and retains most of the detail of the face! It makes it much easier to model the face. Before, when I would go down to the lowest subdivision level I still had too many polygons to effectively use the various tools in zbrush. Now I can adjust proportions ands such in a much more efficient manner.

    And here's some comparison images between photo reference and the model at a similar angle.

    photocomparison05.jpg

    photocomparison04.jpg

    photocomparison03.jpg

    photocomparison02.jpg

    photocomparison01.jpg

    At the moment this is how I'm working on this thing... I'll load up an image in Picasa to my right, with zbrush open on the left. I put the model at a similar angle as the picture, and then move around stuff until the features seem to fit. Then I move onto a different image. The biggest problems (besides my huge lack of talent/experience) is her ever changing pose/expression/weight.

    I think I'm finally on the right track (how many times have I said that?). Anyhow, if anyone is still willing after what I've said before, I'd appreciate some criticism. You're all artists and you all have eyes. Everyone here can tell when something looks wrong. It doesn't matter what the terminology you use is. It really doesn't. I just want to know what looks off so I can get this thing really going.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    And jesus, comparing what you've done to what I'm doing is such a dick move. Seriously man, I'm trying to learn something here, why be a fucking prick about it?

    You come in after not having made a post in an Artist's Corner thread besides your own for over a month, and proceed to make a post about how nobody is helping you and how we should all be paying attention to your thread because you are special or something. Then call me a prick when I comment that you might get help and learn more by posting a greater amount of work instead of tiny increments on the same thing over the course of two months. And all of this after stating how well you take criticism.

    God knows that I am not the nicest guy around, or even the most helpful. But I do try. I think you seriously need to go back and read that post of mine again. The comparison to my own thread was to try to encourage you to do more work and show it...not to shit on you. I post a lot of work and sometimes get little to no response. This isn't a really busy forum, sometimes it takes a bit for people to notice what is going on.

    Anyways, good luck with your model.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Hey, good progress.

    Here's a few issues I see before you can move on to texturing, it should take no time at all. Widen the nose just a touch and make the chin so it's not quite so pronounced. It hangs down and protrudes a bit more than I think it should.

    Just do those two things and I think it will be good, then follow Mike's advice and move on to texturing it.

    NotASenator on
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    cakemikz wrote: »
    You come in after not having made a post in an Artist's Corner thread besides your own for over a month, and proceed to make a post about how nobody is helping you and how we should all be paying attention to your thread because you are special or something.

    I think you need to read that post of mine again. I was trying to figure out if this is the right place to even post about this model. After the responses I got (saying that it more than likely was the medium mixed with the limited amount of progress on the model) I signed up for www.zbrushcentral.com and start posting stuff over there. All I was trying to figure out is if it was worth continuing to post stuff here. I was not trying to be hostile, and I was not trying to say I am special or what not. I was not saying people SHOULD post stuff in my thread. I was trying to figure out WHY people weren't posting stuff in my thread.

    From that I've decided that I will continue to post stuff here, but only if there's a solid leap forward on the model. I'm also going to try to talk a bit about the process, so that this thread might actually be useful or entertaining to someone other than myself.

    Then call me a prick when I comment that you might get help and learn more by posting a greater amount of work instead of tiny increments on the same thing over the course of two months. And all of this after stating how well you take criticism.

    God knows that I am not the nicest guy around, or even the most helpful. But I do try. I think you seriously need to go back and read that post of mine again. The comparison to my own thread was to try to encourage you to do more work and show it...not to shit on you. I post a lot of work and sometimes get little to no response. This isn't a really busy forum, sometimes it takes a bit for people to notice what is going on.

    Anyways, good luck with your model.


    Now this I apologize about. I guess it was just the whole "posting at 6 am" thing. I didn't read your post right. You're not a prick, I took the "I post 30 pieces when you post 1" part of your post wrong. So, sorry bout the "fucking prick" part of my last post.

    Anyway, NotACrook, sounds good. I've heard the same from people over at the zbrushcentral forums. I'm actually not going to jump straight into texturing on this, once I get the model finished in this stage it moves onto the 3d texturing stage (adding real texture to the skin, making the eyelids more detailed, wrinkles and folds where they need to be, making the mouth be openable and modeling teeth/gums and a tounge). After that, I do the body in the same manner (taking 2 months while whining about it all the way), and then I'll move onto polypainting this thing.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • GihgehlsGihgehls Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Something to consider when modeling in Z-brush from photo reference is that by default, all views in Z-brush are orthographic, so they have no perspective. All the shots of Quinne DO have perspective which will cause certain features to look bigger in different angles.

    Gihgehls on
    PA-gihgehls-sig.jpg
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Gihgehls wrote: »
    Something to consider when modeling in Z-brush from photo reference is that by default, all views in Z-brush are orthographic, so they have no perspective. All the shots of Quinne DO have perspective which will cause certain features to look bigger in different angles.

    Yeah, that's another thing I've been struggling with. I've been trying to account for perspective, which is one reason why those comparison shots don't look right.

    But you sound like you know some stuff about zbrush. Let me run some questions by you.

    Is there anyway to make it so that zbrush is running in a non-orthographic mode besides the "perspective" button in the draw tab? It seems to just put a fisheyed lens on everything instead of actually using perspective.

    Also, is there anyway to have multiple viewports? It'd be a lot easier to edit the model if I could have a "working viewport" and a "aligned with picture" viewport.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
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